Use of biomass and Waste-to-energy

aj_onduty

aj_onduty

@aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Oct 26, 2024
Dear CEans,
We are here, boasting ourselves as members of developed nations and we simply turn a blind eye to facts. Now, I want you all to remember that we are engineers, if we do not think about it, who will.
Cities are the mirrors of our development statistics. The major challenge in cities is the wastes. In cities, you can find the cleanest places, and also the most hazardous. So, what can we use to curb the wastes in cities? can we use the biomass to power the city? lets discuss about this, we can bring on the change. Lets do it.
Like 0 Replies 69

Replies

Welcome, guest

Join CrazyEngineers to reply, ask questions, and participate in conversations.

Sign up Log in

CrazyEngineers powered by Jatra Community Platform

  • d_vipul

    d_vipul

    @d-vipul-wP6Syg • Sep 1, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    Hey Friend,
    The best answer is RECYCLING and GENERATION........
    Power Generation using this waste.........
    But for that we need money what to do with that.............
    A single Engineer cant do anything.................
    To meet this requirement we all need to REUNITE..............

    Regards,
    VIPUL
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 1, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    The main motive behind starting this thread is discussing and, if possible, innovating new technologies and better ways to handle and utilise whatever we see and dread of. Personally, I am dreaming for a cleaner world. And I want to contribute for it, in the best way. I want others to contribute and I want the best people talk about this. The CE is the best place for this. I have all my hopes set on CE forum.
    0
  • Ashraf HZ

    Ashraf HZ

    @Ash • Sep 1, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    Good start aj_onduty. This thread has a lot of potential 😀

    As a suggestion (you guys can add more), lets start by doing research:
    - The amount of waste there are in cities. Perhaps we can pick a few as case studies so we can get some raw stats.
    - Existing biomass technology, with their advantages and disadvantages. Efficiencies?
    - Estimated costs?

    Once we understand the constraints involved and what realistic objectives we could achieve, then we'll have some sort of rough idea on what it takes to implement this technology.
    0
  • Fintanhrag

    Fintanhrag

    @fintanhrag-jYxPNk • Sep 2, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    Industrial biomass can be grown from abundant types of plants, including miscanthus, switchgrass, hemp, corn, poplar, willow, sorghum, sugarcane[3], and a variety of tree species, range from eucalyptus to oil palm (palm oil). The fastidious plant used is usually not important to the end products, but it does affect the handing out of the raw material.
    Thanks,

    conservation is a multifaceted approach that involves integrated <a href="https://www.egenergy.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">My Blog – My WordPress Blog</a> measures.
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 2, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    We have biomass power plants that use plant refuse, especially agricultural refuse like straw of rice, wheat, mustard etc. and husk of rice, and also many grass varieties. Using agricultural and foliage biomass is one way to cut down usage of conventional fuels. But we should also aim at many other things. Along with usage of agricultural and forest wastes, we have to take a look into the cities. I have a reason for stressing this here
    We all are aware of green house gases. We pelt stones, close down and, sometimes, nuke down the factories which produce gases like CO2, chlorine, etc. Why don't we engineers try to see the fact that CO2 and chlorine are not the only gases which cause the dreaded green house effect. There is something else, which is known as methane.
    Methane is a gas which is 25 times more powerful than CO2. And I want you all to know that the dumping grounds and other filthy places you see in your cities produce tons of it, every day. Nature can not do anything about that, that production is illegal in the law book of nature. Have we thought of doing something of this? Methane is a natural gas. Why can't we use the tons of methane to generate electricity, for district heating, for any use for that matter. Why aren't we thinking for this?
    Thank you for taking time for reading this. Now I want you to take some more time to think about it.
    I beg each of you to think about it.
    Thank you.
    0
  • bill190

    bill190

    @bill190-VhqyZT • Sep 2, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    d_vipul
    A single Engineer cant do anything.................
    A single engineer can do quite a lot!
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 2, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    @bill190
    Kindly review your post, I don't think that thees links are relevant with the topic under discussion in this thread. Kindly edit the post if you think is required.
    But if you think that these links have any relevance with the topic, kindly let us discuss its relevance before we discuss its application. I appreciate your efforts and I am looking forward for your involvement. Thank you.
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 3, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    This I found out from a pdf I saw when I was Googling on.This is a copy paste, but this is just a general information. So, I do not think that I am doing something illegal. Correct me if I am. This is about Mumbai.
    Mumbai generates waste to the tune of approximately 7,025tonnes per day. The waste
    consists of:
    • 5,025tonnes of mixed waste (bio-degradable and recyclable)
    • 2,000tonnes of debris and silt.

    The biodegradable waste (wet waste) is made up of vegetable and fruit remainders,
    leaves, spoiled food, eggshells, cotton, etc. Recyclable (dry waste) consists of
    newspapers, thermocol, plastic, battery cells, wires, iron sheets, glass, etc. Debris
    includes construction waste, renovation waste, demolition waste, etc. Silt comprises earth
    and clay from drains and road corners. It is estimated that by 2008 such waste will
    aggregate 9,000tonnes per day due to increase in the city's population.

    Average Generation of Waste by a Citizen of Mumbai

    The generation of waste by an individual depends on the socio-economic conditions to
    which the person belongs. For example, a rich family will generate nearly four to five kg
    of mixed waste per day; a middle class family will generate between one to three kg of
    mixed waste per day and a poor family, in slums, will generate close to 500grams per
    day.


    This is just for an information.
    Can CEans analyse this?
    0
  • silverscorpion

    silverscorpion

    @silverscorpion-iJKtdQ • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    This info seems to be too old. It is estimated that Mumbai will generate 9000 tonnes of waste per day in 2008. It's already 2010, and the waste generation will most likely have become even higher..
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    Yes, I think so, You see, I was just browsing through. But just see what amount it is generating. And can you imagine how much methane would it be generating?
    We are talking about a high amount of fuel going waste.
    We talk about automobile fuel wastage due to traffic jams, but we cannot do anything possibly. A very high amount of fuel is wasted that way. But the solution is very difficult. But we just can't see the opportunity in our hands to save the fuel. Methane is something on the good use of which, we can solve two problems, fuel shortage and global warming.
    Why don't we understand that?
    0
  • abhishek1814

    abhishek1814

    @abhishek1814-zNy1Ud • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    well i have a concept in my mind... today more than 60% of pollution is caused by the harmful gases released by vehicles.If you know there is a plant known as jatropha. The oil extracted from this can b used in place of deisel in engines. This reduces pollutants emission and also jatropha is renewable. There would be some manipulations required before you use the extracted oil. But scientists can easily over come this. Hoe CEans will look forward for this.
    Thank you..
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    Nice work you have done #-Link-Snipped-# by pointing out about the jatropha. Can you or anyone else give a bit more information about it? Anything about the alleged process used for the extraction of the fuel oil, can be pointed out.
    Thank you.
    0
  • abhishek1814

    abhishek1814

    @abhishek1814-zNy1Ud • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    i don know exactly how oil is extracted.. extracted oil is directly avbl in market(if anyone wants to test). main reasons for using jatropha are- They
    <LI class=paral>Develop without much care and irrigation. <LI class=paral>Grow even on marginal/saline/acidic/alkaline soils and slopy lands. <LI class=paral>Need hardly any application of pesticide. How to achieve high productivity?
    <LI class=paral>Plant at 2x2 m in 60x60x60 cm pit filled with soil mixed with 2 kg organic manure. <LI class=paral>Drip irrigate, if possible; monsoon, little; winter, fortnightly; summer, frequently. <LI class=paral>Prune main stem upon 1.5 m growth for profuse branching and higher seed yield. <LI class=paral>Spray foliage with growth promoters for higher yield of seeds and oil. <LI class=paral>Ensure maximum exposure to sunlight for enhancing seed yield. <LI class=paral>Use inter-cropping for first 2-3 years for income while Jatropha plants mature
    0
  • abhishek1814

    abhishek1814

    @abhishek1814-zNy1Ud • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    "<LI class=paral>" This is nothing but the bullets inserted. I don know why they are not visible?
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    From this, what I understood is that we use the seeds for production of jatropha oil. Is it just like the production of of other oils from the plants like sunflower?Can you give an estimate on how much oil can a plant give, or how much plants we need for the extraction of 1litre of oil?
    0
  • abhishek1814

    abhishek1814

    @abhishek1814-zNy1Ud • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    ya it is somewhat of same kind oil extraction. some part of it may differ. I don know exact process of Extraction.About three tons of usable oil or an equivalent of 3,000 liters of diesel can be produced from one hectare of Jatropha plants.
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    Oh, thank you,. So, is it used now? Is there any existing technology or is there any production unit currently producing it?
    0
  • abhishek1814

    abhishek1814

    @abhishek1814-zNy1Ud • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    it is been produced in India only... and you know India is largest producer of it.. To my knowledge, I don think so this fuel is really used in practical..
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    Can you make it clear what is the problem when we use it for practical uses? If no, can you tell me the source from where you got this knowledge?
    0
  • abhishek1814

    abhishek1814

    @abhishek1814-zNy1Ud • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    I have not carried out any research over the contents of jatropha... So i cant say anything whats the problem in practical..There are manny books,internet,college sirs etc from where you get his knowledge..
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    Jatropha oil newbies like me need to view this, this satisfies the initial curiosities and increases advanced curiosities.
    <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatropha_oil" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Jatropha Oil</a>
    0
  • abhishek1814

    abhishek1814

    @abhishek1814-zNy1Ud • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    ya.. it is just the basic..I mean it is just the thing to know about jatropha
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    It can live upto 35 years and can be even used as jet fuel. The only problem it has is the water intake.
    0
  • abhishek1814

    abhishek1814

    @abhishek1814-zNy1Ud • Sep 5, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    Water intake problem can be resolved by some teflon coating over body... What I feel is dat there is some content in Jatropha which does not allow it to be used in DI
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 6, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    I am sorry to let you misunderstand but what I meant from water intake is the water intake by the plant to grow, to support its normal growth cycle. Jatropha requires five times more water per unit energy than sugarcane and corn.
    0
  • abhishek1814

    abhishek1814

    @abhishek1814-zNy1Ud • Sep 6, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    k... but I don think so India has any problem with water.. if we use water to overcome diesel it is always accepatble
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 6, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    Yes, the tropical areas and rain-forest areas are the best places to grow jatropha. In those places,irrigation is required only in the first year of its long life, which is 35 years.
    0
  • abhishek1814

    abhishek1814

    @abhishek1814-zNy1Ud • Sep 6, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    ya.. water is mainly needed for jatropha
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 6, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    The vehicles which used jatropha oil in their engines, three Mercedes cars and a Boeing 747(one of its four engines have been supplied a 50:50 supply of Jatropha oil and jet A1 fuel)
    0
  • abhishek1814

    abhishek1814

    @abhishek1814-zNy1Ud • Sep 6, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    They used only some part of Jatropha.. why not a engine completely of jatropha? JDi?
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 6, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    U are the mechanical engineer. Hey, you can design one. I was thinking of having a power plant of the bio diesel. It can use two sources, the diesel and the jatropha oil residue.
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 6, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    Jatropha seems to be a promising source. Can we use jatropha for other uses, I mean, other than crushing and using it as biodiesel?
    As we can use both jatropha residue cake and bio-diesel as fuel, can't we use the jatropha seeds in some other forms after gasification, or any other process which removes the unwanted part of the seeds?
    Anyone knowing any technology?
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 6, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    Some questions are being asked about jatropha in this site
    <a href="https://www.i-sis.org.uk/JatrophaBiodieselIndia.php" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Jatropha Biodiesel Fever in India</a>
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 6, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    Kindly view this one
    #-Link-Snipped-#
    0
  • abhishek1814

    abhishek1814

    @abhishek1814-zNy1Ud • Sep 6, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    dude designing an engine??its not a play man... there are loads of criteria for engine... top persons ar not only able to design it...m still far away..
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 7, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    This thread was started so that we can think more about biomass. But this thread is looking like the Government. Personally, I want to hear and discuss about more ideas in biomass usage. Anyone who can do it?
    0
  • Ashraf HZ

    Ashraf HZ

    @Ash • Sep 9, 2010

    I've updated the title of this thread, as I feel biomass is technically not inclusive of energy recovery from all waste 😛

    So we have some rough numbers. Using 2008 data, 5 tonnes of waste daily in Mumbai can be used for Waste-to-energy processes. How are the waste stored in the landfills? Are there any separation of waste types or are they all clumped together?

    If we are focusing on methane, Anaerobic digestion would probably be a good way to extract it from the biodegradable waste and utilize it.

    Other methods include:
    - Pyrolysis
    - Thermal depolymerization
    - Gasification

    There are probably more. Each of these have their advantages and disadvantages, though I'll warrant a guess that they are not deployed in a larger scale just because capital costs and complexity. Which ones do you think can be practically implemented in a city like Mumbai?

    We'll try to avoid incineration of waste as this probably causes more harm than good 😛

    From the purview of waste collection, I feel one obstacle is separating the waste that can be used for energy recovering methods (be it biomass, etc). For example, how do we currently throw our household waste? Do we clump everything in one bag or do we separate different types such as biodegradable, plastics, metal? If we do this pre-emptively, it will help reduce costs involved at the waste processing plant to separate these.
    0
  • Van Helsing

    Van Helsing

    @van-helsing-nwELoN • Sep 20, 2010

    Well, I think it is not a tech problem rather than a psico-politic one. You can't change peoples brain. Ahmmm no, you got no chances... 😒
    Anyway, a plant for recycling anithyng is quite a big job but not so impossible. You throw in everything, from plastics to meat, from batteries to metal scrape, from cars to space shuttles, from sea algae to dead rats, from old shoes to manure... You can do a plant capable of handlind all of these, separate and recover metals, gasify plastics, burn wather, and other magic things till you get clean energy, good metals for melting etc...
    Whato you can't do is make people change their way to think, so you'll never get founds to make an automated plant for clean recovery of trash. Neither you'll convince people to act cleaner than they are acustomed.
    I believe this is a matter of fact. Don't you?😔
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 22, 2010

    Dear Friends,
    It is a tough job, but not impossible. Firstly, we should set up biomass power plants which use agriculture residues(Which are burnt in the fields- the soil quality decreases and air pollution increases). If we pay for something a person wastes off, he will readily agree to give it to you. So, you can set up and run biomass power plants till you can find enough fuel to support it. The entrepreneurs will see a good income from the carbon credit the plant owners will earn and thus they will also try to bag in a few credits. But there is a saturation point for biomass power plants, which when reached, the entrepreneurs will think about alternate ideas, this is when the waste management and power from wastes come into picture. The possibilities, like this example, are unlimited; if we just storm in your heads and be determinant.
    What do you think?
    0
  • Van Helsing

    Van Helsing

    @van-helsing-nwELoN • Sep 22, 2010

    My dear aj_onduty, you are mostly right. Nevertheless a mojority of people in many countries are too acustomed to do what they are acustomed to do, to throw everithing in the trash can. Trash separation is not so feasible as it seems. As I stated before, people's mind is unchangeable without a good lobotomy. And even after that results are impredictable. 😒
    The right way is to design plants to be feed by almost anything from batteries, to biomass, to plastics, to depleted oil... and capable of automatically convert all that trash in good separated metals, salts, ashes, energy and only CO2. Saddly CO2 is the final result of a good combustion and you can't do any better.
    I, and some engineers, are thinking on a way to avoid CO2 release in the atmosphere but pure oxygen.:sshhh:
    But this require some financing for research and in the country where we are living things are not so easy. As I stated it is a matter of brain usage...😁
    Regards...
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 22, 2010

    Dear VH,
    The people can be enlightened by drives dear friend, the consumers are the best separators, they just need some "motivation" They can be given some monetary benefits for their work, yes, every one who creates wastes should be given money for separating and dumping. You think it is impossible, think again. You give money to farmers for giving away their wastes, do the same for the common man too. thats a revolution. And about carbon dioxide, you have to worry about the particulate emissions only, the CO2 released does not affect the environment as the CO2 from the fossil fuels do, refer the idea of carbon credit. Google a bit you will understand what it is.
    Thanks for the effort, still proceed with your R&D over O2 from CO2
    0
  • Van Helsing

    Van Helsing

    @van-helsing-nwELoN • Sep 22, 2010

    Yes, as I told you, you'r right. I know about CO2 from fossil fuels etc... What I'm trying to tell here is that in Europe, people pay taxes for recicling trash, they are asked to chose what is goin where, they are asked to work and pay for it. This is'nt exactly what you are talking about. You are nevertheles right. Give advantages to people and they will differentiate garbige. In Europe, governaments are real Vampires, they will make you pay for your job of litter-separator, they are not prone to give they are allways ready to ask for, indeed. This is the curse of the black litter... 😀
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 22, 2010

    Van Helsing
    What I'm trying to tell here is that in Europe, people pay taxes for recycling trash, they are asked to chose what is goin where, they are asked to work and pay for it.
    Invert this thing and what you will find out is that Europe becomes a carbon neutral continent. You have a mechanism for waste seperation, the whole process will be a lot easy for the people, government and the entrepreneurs. They can strike the gold if they pay a bit to the people...
    0
  • Reya

    Reya

    @reya-SMihdC • Sep 23, 2010

    oh then do you think mumbai stands first in generating the waste?Then what are the possible ways to prevent generating the wastes?The best way is recycling..There are large number of technologies available to make use of a variety of biomass types as a renewable energy source.Bio mass can be converted into other usable forms of energy such as ethanol,methane,biodiesel..some of the conversion technologies release the renewable energy in the form of heat or electricity and can be converted into another form such as bio fuel and combustible bio gas..What are those technologies?
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 23, 2010

    We cannot stop the generation of wastes, but we should manage the generated waste. If you look back in this thread, there is a mention about the use of methane which can be generated just as we do in small scale biomass plants. But for that, waste separation should be done, bio-degradable wastes should be separated from their counterparts. The seperation cannot be done at the dumpyard, it should be done by the people who generate the waste. Yes, the common man. Everyday, a house creates 1-4kg of wastes, out of which, a major part is biodegradable, and methane rich. Methane is a natural gas, use it in an I-C engine and you get mechanical motion to generate electricity, use it in boilers, and you generate steam, and electricity again, use it for cooking, use it in the CNG vehicles, where-ever you think of, use it.
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 23, 2010

    @Van helsing, how far did u and your team of engineers think about the avoiding of CO2 and release O2? Can you share something to all of us? May be we can help too!
    0
  • shreyasm89

    shreyasm89

    @shreyasm89-jGobVm • Sep 25, 2010

    Yes you are right segregation of waste has to be done by us. But is methane released by the waste in enough quantities to be useful as a fuel?Also methane is a combustible gas like hydrogen. So separate specifications of engines will be required I think...plz correct me if I'm wrong.
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 26, 2010

    From the wastes around you(that is, if you are in Mumbai), you can have a power house. Don't worry about the quantity. There should be seperate specifications for the engine which uses hydrogen, may be. But it is just a natural gas. From the layman's point of view(which I possess, I don't know anything about engines to comment), any petrol engine which is capable of using CNG or LPG can be used. I would like to hear comments from mechanical engineers and automobile engineers on this.
    0
  • shreyasm89

    shreyasm89

    @shreyasm89-jGobVm • Sep 30, 2010

    @aj- You are right buddy. Even I stay in Mumbai so I have a fair idea of the amount of wastage generated in Mumbai. Just travel by the local trains and we realise that we are living amidst a great garbage stockpile. If by some way we are able to implement your idea & convert all this waste into equivalent energy I think we'll be able to run Mumbai's local trains for another year or so. Anyways let us not limit this discussion to a paticular city. Why wait for the garbage to decompose and release methane?There are other harmful effects of allowing huge garbage piles to rot(read harmful diseases)Also the emission of methane has to be done in a controlled manner as methane in concentrated quantities is a fire hazard.
    By some way we need to reduce the amount of substances in this garbage which are not completely combustible. This way we'll take care of the envirionmental factor.
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Sep 30, 2010

    Emission of methane is not a hazard because methane is combustible, but it is a hazard because it is a green house gas more dangerous than CO2. We abuse, hit on the heads, lock out, burn down factories (and people owning them) which let out chlorine, CO2. Before doing that, why don't we stop the accumulation of wastes?
    0
  • Ashraf HZ

    Ashraf HZ

    @Ash • Sep 30, 2010

    Controlled collection of methane should be done anyway, since we don't want it to be released into the atmosphere 😀

    Like Ajit says about using a power plant, feeding methane into a centralized location would be more feasible that designing new engines for cars. At least in the short term!
    0
  • shreyasm89

    shreyasm89

    @shreyasm89-jGobVm • Oct 1, 2010

    Ofcourse, controlled combustion was what I implied & there is no question of releasing methane into the air, if we are looking for alternative fuels we need to get our hands on all the methane that we can get.Also aj is right in choosing methane as a fuel because its calorific value is more than all of the other hydrocarbons.
    I checked out a link online. It is about a researcher who says that methane is more easy to store in fuel cells than Hydrogen...so why not promote methane fuel cells in automobiles. Please check this link <a href="https://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Methane_20Fuel_20Cell" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Halfbakery: Methane Fuel Cell</a>... those people who really feel that methane is really worthy as an alternative fuel to butane and iso-butane.
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Oct 1, 2010

    Dear @Shreyasm89.,
    Yes, you are right. Methane has many qualities compared to other hydrocarbons. Not just hydrocarbons, but all the gaseous fuels. I am passionate about it. I would like to devote my resources to the better usage of this fuel because of its properties. If I would be able to set up a company in my life, it would be related to methane utilization. But I must confess that I have done less research on it. I am at it now.
    And shreyasm, this link shows a 404 error. Kindly make sure if the link is a correct one. I would like to have a look at it.
    0
  • leencoo12

    leencoo12

    @leencoo12-pftDiY • Oct 1, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    ash
    Good start aj_onduty. This thread has a lot of potential 😀

    As a suggestion (you guys can add more), lets start by doing research:
    - The amount of waste there are in cities. Perhaps we can pick a few as case studies so we can get some raw stats.
    - Existing biomass technology, with their advantages and disadvantages. Efficiencies?
    - Estimated costs?

    Once we understand the constraints involved and what realistic objectives we could achieve, then we'll have some sort of rough idea on what it takes to implement this technology.
    Industrial biomass can be grown from abundant types of plants, including miscanthus, switchgrass, hemp, corn, poplar, willow, sorghum, sugarcane[3], and a variety of tree species, range from eucalyptus to oil palm (palm oil). The fastidious plant used is usually not important to the end products, but it does affect the handing out of the raw material.
    Thanks,




    __________________
    <a href="https://moviesonlinefree.biz" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">FreeDSL | Free TV, Movies, and Sports Streaming</a>
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Oct 1, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    leencoo12
    The fastidious plant used is usually not important to the end products, but it does affect the handing out of the raw material.
    Thanks,
    The end products do matter. Because the plants where we use them do need designing according to the properties of the end products, both chemical and physical. For example, in a plant where rice straw is used, we need cutters to cut the straw down to approximately 1inch, while for rice husks, we don't need it. This is just one of the simplest modification. There are many others in the list.
    0
  • shreyasm89

    shreyasm89

    @shreyasm89-jGobVm • Oct 2, 2010

    @aj- i have corected my post. Now the link this ok. Please refer it.
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Oct 3, 2010

    Nice chunk of information Shreyas. Thinking over it. Using it as fuel for fuel cell s a very brilliant option.
    Dear CEans,
    Never think low about using methane. The cooked food you have in your tiffin used methane to get cooked. To bring out usable and feasible technologies on hydrogen usage, first you have to sharpen the technological skills on something simpler, and then opt for a bigger challenge. Handling, methane is a lot simpler as we have technologies for handling natural gases. We do not take level 50 of any game the first time we see it, do we? Am I right?
    0
  • shreyasm89

    shreyasm89

    @shreyasm89-jGobVm • Oct 4, 2010

    @aj- I think you misunderstood me, I provided the link for those people who are really into this thing(for e.g. you yourself). In fact even I am in favour of methane. Since the above link claims that methane is easier to use in a fuel cell so why not try it out?
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Oct 4, 2010

    Shreyas,
    The part of the post which said"never think low of methane" was something like a message for all. I am sorry that I told it in that way I am editing it as needed.
    Yes, I am in for it. I want to have a good team for this. I would love to do some research in this field.
    0
  • shreyasm89

    shreyasm89

    @shreyasm89-jGobVm • Oct 5, 2010

    I found this physics forum link. There is first hand information from physicists & chemical engineers on the use of methane.
    #-Link-Snipped-#
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Oct 5, 2010

    shreyasm89
    I found this physics forum link. There is first hand information from physicists & chemical engineers on the use of methane.
    #-Link-Snipped-#
    A very rich content, nice find shreyas. Good to find like minded people.
    There has been a good debate between people in the above link giving a lot of information about renewable sources. Its a good one. Now, the point missed out or ignored is something about methane formation from biomass.
    A note which I caught my attention. is thus,
    As said by a user puff_the_majic_dragon in physicsforums.com
    Note: I'm leaving biofuel out of this because it's a slow process that's not easily controlled and produces low volume. Future investment in research I'm sure could make this an acceptable alternative - some nations already have biofuel production facilities built into their land fills and water treatment plants.
    He must not have seen Mumbai😉 Kidding.
    But I would like to have a discussion about these sentences.
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Oct 10, 2010

    Re: Use of biomass

    Does anyone mind clicking that Face-book like button on the top?
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Oct 11, 2010

    Dear megna,
    Thanks for the contribution.
    The steps and facilities are available indeed, or at-least, that's what we come to know on viewing these websites. But let me tell you that when it comes to biomass, there is not a single successful method available for utilization of the same to produce energy, especially in India. If there comes a method, there comes other problems associated with it. The alleged most successful method of utilizing biomass waste is the usage of Rankine cycle(just as in coal power plants, replace coal by biomass). But when we come to hard reality, there comes management problems, fuel problems, problems with fuel handling etc. The second best method is gasification, which gives out harmful by-products. The other methods, like bio methanol production are still in the labs. But in many parts of the world, these methods are working successfully. We have to learn a lot from them. Lets not speak about the various services available. Lets talk about how many projects have been successful. We have a lot to learn from them.
    Again, thanks for your contribution megna. I hope to see your active participation here.
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Oct 17, 2010

    In India, it is said that there is no independent biomass power plant(using the Rankine cycle) above 10MW which is working to its capacity. Is this news right?
    I doubt the genuineness of this news. Can anyone correct this?
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Dec 22, 2010

    Dear friends,
    This thread was dead. I am trying to resurrect it, please contribute.
    0
  • narayana murthy

    narayana murthy

    @narayana-z4W16q • Dec 22, 2010

    i too known that electricity can be generated by biomass but it is not developed in india as i know so that news may be right
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Dec 23, 2010

    There is a correction to that. There are biomass power plants working in India. One in Tamil Nadu works in some 15MW. It works on wood chips. Then there are plants in Karnataka which work on Rice Husks with a capacity of 7.5MW. Chattisgarh is dotted with biomass power plants working on rice husks.
    Now, Please note one fact that there is not even a single biomass power plant which works on rice straw independently. That is because of the chemical factors of rice straw. Does anyone know anything about any biomass power plant of even 1MW which works on Paddy straw in India or outside? Please do mention here.
    I think there are paddy straw fired plants outside India. Can anyone shed some light into that???
    0
  • Ashraf HZ

    Ashraf HZ

    @Ash • Dec 26, 2010

    What I think this thread lacks is some diagrams, charts or graphs. At least showing the processes of biomass production.

    Visual aids are always nice in discussions (or is it just me? 😛 )
    0
  • aj_onduty

    aj_onduty

    @aj-onduty-BvuwMK • Mar 7, 2011

    For those who say that segregation of wastes (for generation of power from wastes) is impossible in India-
    In India, can anyone tell me how many of us dump their newspapers into the garbage bin? No one, actually. That is because you get anywhere between Rs. 5 to Rs. 10 per kilogram of newspaper if you sell it. We use our precious space in our homes to store paper to over a month and sell it dearly. So, please tell me, isn't segregation of wastes existing in India? We can do the same for plastics too, if we install collection centers at reachable places. Hope the entrepreneurs get the point.
    0