CrazyEngineers
  • rk rao

    rk rao

    MemberSep 23, 2013

    Engineering graduates facing unemployability

    The number of unemployable engineers in India is increasing, the way Indian population explodes.

    Exactly what is going on here?

    Did the software industry, which are service based, impoverished the technical talent of the nation? I guess, it has, no one realized, but now we are facing the heat.

    First of all, why do we need such huge count, people with caliber must be passed out, not numbers.

    But that's not the case.

    And besides, we are still lagging in terms of innovative work, be it paper writing, predicting the future trend of technologies, thought leadership etc.

    Why?
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  • Kaustubh Katdare

    AdministratorSep 24, 2013

    One of the topics we've discussed several times in various forms. Trust me, no employers would say this openly; but the quality of 'engineers' produced these days from any average engineering college can only be equated with 'junk'. You simply can't put any fresh engineer directly on the project and expect some productive work.

    Yesterday, I met a CEO of a company and we chatted about recruitment. He said he's hired engineers from NITs and top MBA colleges; but fails to get the quality he desires.

    There are three main issues:
    • The students themselves aren't interested in 'engineering'. Most of them got into engineering because they or their parents thought that it'd be a short-cut to IT industry or some job that'll send them 'on-site'.
    • The engineering education system in India is pathetic (give me a better word that insults the system even more).
    • The industry does not need talented engineers in bulk. The Indian IT industry thrives because our smart PM, Man Mohan Singh devalued rupee beyond limits starting 1991. Let the rupee rise in value and see how it affects Indian IT.
    PS: Search this forum for similar topics. You'll find really interesting discussions 😀
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  • rk rao

    MemberSep 24, 2013

    Thanks kaustubh for the response.

    I know that this forum has discussed this topic.
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  • rahul69

    MemberSep 24, 2013

    Kaustubh Katdare
    One of the topics we've discussed several times in various forms. Trust me, no employers would say this openly; but the quality of 'engineers' produced these days from any average engineering college can only be equated with 'junk'. You simply can't put any fresh engineer directly on the project and expect some productive work.

    Yesterday, I met a CEO of a company and we chatted about recruitment. He said he's hired engineers from NITs and top MBA colleges; but fails to get the quality he desires.

    There are three main issues:
    • The students themselves aren't interested in 'engineering'. Most of them got into engineering because they or their parents thought that it'd be a short-cut to IT industry or some job that'll send them 'on-site'.
    • The engineering education system in India is pathetic (give me a better word that insults the system even more).
    • The industry does not need talented engineers in bulk. The Indian IT industry thrives because our smart PM, Man Mohan Singh devalued rupee beyond limits starting 1991. Let the rupee rise in value and see how it affects Indian IT.
    PS: Search this forum for similar topics. You'll find really interesting discussions 😀
    I agree with you to some extent, but there are certain differences in my viewpoint. I do agree that many students don't have enough knowledge, but the interesting thing is that they still get good jobs. And it's true that these engineers cannot be directly put to work, and that's the reason why companies like Infosys, Cognizant etc. have their own training programs.
    Interesting aspect is that there are certain good engineers who have sound technical background and can replace any good developer in a company, but they lack in Communication Skills which is their setback for placements, I personally know some people who are awesome developers but lack skill to convince others of their knowledge. So they either get into start-ups, or work as freelancers.
    But those of the first kind which can get jobs solely on the basis of their communication skills cannot sustain the technical roles so they either opt for non technical roles (after doing MBA etc.) or simply continue their roles without any satisfaction, due to which they fail to deliver the quality needed.
    It's just my opinion, there are lot of other factors which twist this tale, but the overall story is still the same.
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  • Kaustubh Katdare

    AdministratorSep 25, 2013

    Depends on how we define 'good job'. Most of India's highly qualified engineers are already working for startup companies. I feel sorry for the companies that recruit engineers based on their communications skills.
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  • rk rao

    MemberSep 25, 2013

    rahul69
    I agree with you to some extent, but there are certain differences in my viewpoint. I do agree that many students don't have enough knowledge, but the interesting thing is that they still get good jobs. And it's true that these engineers cannot be directly put to work, and that's the reason why companies like Infosys, Cognizant etc. have their own training programs.
    Interesting aspect is that there are certain good engineers who have sound technical background and can replace any good developer in a company, but they lack in Communication Skills which is their setback for placements, I personally know some people who are awesome developers but lack skill to convince others of their knowledge. So they either get into start-ups, or work as freelancers.
    But those of the first kind which can get jobs solely on the basis of their communication skills cannot sustain the technical roles so they either opt for non technical roles (after doing MBA etc.) or simply continue their roles without any satisfaction, due to which they fail to deliver the quality needed.
    It's just my opinion, there are lot of other factors which twist this tale, but the overall story is still the same.

    That's the real problem.

    Industry never differentiate.

    They make all Engineers as coders and linemen.

    According to me, all Engineers have distinct trait, some are good in technical works, others are good in designing, and thinking.

    But that sort of division is not there.

    In other words, the industry treats all Engineers as line man or technician.


    Problem is with Industry.

    Also, there is no industry-academia partnership, and how many Engineering graduates are made to write paper, journals etc?

    The only thing mandatory to work as a CLERK is to have a sound knowledge of reading and writing.
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  • rk rao

    MemberSep 25, 2013

    Kaustubh Katdare
    Depends on how we define 'good job'. Most of India's highly qualified engineers are already working for startup companies. I feel sorry for the companies that recruit engineers based on their communications skills.

    Why are you feeling sorry?

    On the contrary, it is the graduate themselves, who want this, and trust me, there are people who are very happy with this.

    They say that if not for IT industry, we all would have been doomed, so this shows that they really don't like to work hard, and also, they don't value the Engineering, as they have not earned it.


    When something is earned, by sheer determination and hard work, people value you, and also, you will have self respect, which is not with these service guys here.

    Real problem is that because of these service industries, the real Engineering talent gets suck in, and it is a one way trap, it is very tough to get out of this.
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  • Bhuvaneshwaran K

    MemberSep 25, 2013

    Thanks for discussing this topic.
    It is very useful & interesting to know.
    But i have a question,
    In all over, a student coming from Engineering colleges can't be good in both communication & technical skills.so,first of all students what to know & improve their skills.
    Please give answer for this question...
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  • rk rao

    MemberSep 25, 2013

    Bhuvaneshwaran K
    Thanks for discussing this topic.
    It is very useful & interesting to know.
    But i have a question,
    In all over, a student coming from Engineering colleges can't be good in both communication & technical skills.so,first of all students what to know & improve their skills.
    Please give answer for this question...

    I think communication skills can be improved, as it is not that tough

    but for technical skills, industry alliance must happen, and also, students must be made to attend practical training, not theory.

    They must be grilled very hard, infact, must be made to sleep their, and during college years. Only then they will understand the value of being an Engineer.
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  • rk rao

    MemberSep 25, 2013

    Also, important is to make the realize the importance of TEAM BUILDING.

    And by that, I am not talking about the activities, which happens on the norm of HR, etc, where they are taken to a hotel, and made to play some stupid games.

    It means, focusing on the task, and sharing the code, and also, no ego.
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  • Anand Tamariya

    MemberSep 25, 2013

    I'll offer another insight. Four years of study and a person calls himself an engineer (and others' expectation too) - almost equating him to Newton. But have a look at the industry itself (take any that you like). How many skilled people would you really find even after decades of experience? It's a joke in Indian IT industry that there are no programmers with enough experience - coz after a fixed years of experience (wasted time if you will), they only aspire to be a Manager.
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  • Kaustubh Katdare

    AdministratorSep 25, 2013

    First - 'Communication Skills' in India is equated with how good are you in English. Then, I've seen really talented engineers getting rejected in interviews because they could not speak fluently.

    I feel sorry for the companies that lose out on such engineers. On the contrary, I've seen people who're good in English getting things they aren't eligible for. Ultimately, it results into 'failure'.

    As far as the topic of this debate is concerned, most of the companies will ultimately find what they want. If they want brick layers; they'll get them. Engineers will happily lay bricks than design the building.

    I no longer feel surprised when I see an IIT+IIM guy doing 'cold calling' clients in the name of marketing. You don't need to go to IIT and IIM to do that. An 10th class student with 3-6 months of on the job experience will do that job more effectively.
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  • Sarathkumar Chandrasekaran

    MemberOct 1, 2013

    Its not good on blamming students alone for the present scenario.This scenario is backed up by many criterias like family situation, financial background, educational system, social stress over the decision makingof the child and above all that lack of self confidence .
    As everyone said, communication can be developed only if we understand ourselves and dont care on surrounding stress by friends or family(they may make fun on you) but its only you who is going to face the life.So self analyzation and correction is very important.
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  • Anand Tamariya

    MemberOct 1, 2013

    Kaustubh Katdare
    I no longer feel surprised when I see an IIT+IIM guy doing 'cold calling' clients in the name of marketing. You don't need to go to IIT and IIM to do that. An 10th class student with 3-6 months of on the job experience will do that job more effectively.
    I'd cut a slack for the IIT+IIM guy doing 'cold calling' clients in the name of marketing. Maybe he realised later that cold calling (or conversing) is what he likes best. It was his parents who wanted him to go for IIT/IIM. It's not wrong to do course correction in life.
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  • Saandeep Sreerambatla

    MemberOct 3, 2013

    We were talking about communication. First and foremost thing companies and people should understand is communication is not equal to english.

    I have seen parents feeling proud since their kid is saying hello and good morning at the age 3, I think that mindset has to be changed.

    Communicating is talking something so that others can understand that.

    next comes we dont have effective engineers in India, its true. There are very few effective engineers in India. If you go for any MNC there are many people who work for second level coding and testing since the important design aspects will not be offshored to India. So even if an intelligent guy if works for more than 5 years on average tasks then he will become average.

    Coming back, you see there are multiple things as well. if a person is intelligent then its minimum common sense to follow the passion. In our country as many people mentioned we are aligned with one line. We are not confident on ourselves. Our families will not let us take risks.
    If a person comes out and does something out of box, people always talk defaming him unless he does something extraordinary. Only thing is leave the routine.

    If you leave the routine, then there will be no unemployment in India.
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  • yogi.bharadwaj

    MemberOct 3, 2013

    you guys said about many problems like communication skill,lack of knowledge and many more.i am totally appriciate these problems but guys the biggest problem is our education system for b.tech.Guys a common graduation course has the same kind of theory and less practicals in its course and the technical education b.tech BE also follow the same.But guys u say that the companies will want a profational or experienced person but our education system tell us that we should learn theory. then whats the difference b/w a normal study and technical study.so i think our technical education system will change and every engineering student will get the practical knowledge them theory will easily understood.so what u say guys if i am wrong pls correct me.
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  • Sarathkumar Chandrasekaran

    MemberOct 5, 2013

    yogi.bharadwaj
    you guys said about many problems like communication skill,lack of knowledge and many more.i am totally appriciate these problems but guys the biggest problem is our education system for b.tech.Guys a common graduation course has the same kind of theory and less practicals in its course and the technical education b.tech BE also follow the same.But guys u say that the companies will want a professional or experienced person but our education system tell us that we should learn theory. then whats the difference b/w a normal study and technical study.so i think our technical education system will change and every engineering student will get the practical knowledge them theory will easily understood.so what u say guys if i am wrong pls correct me.
    We completely can't rule out that Theoretical knowledge is waste. A man with practical experience and a sound theoretical knowledge can do wonders with his/her depth in knowledge. We can't always complain on education system. What had we done to change to take place. If a student is interested he/she should apply for inplant trainings,internships , etc to enhance his/her knowledge but what many are doing? They just attend internships, IPT's for the saske of certificates.Just take added courses.many students go for it just to add "I Know CAD,Pro-E,etc" in resume.
    It all depends on the self interest and attitude of students
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  • yogi.bharadwaj

    MemberOct 6, 2013

    i am not say that we should make a system which has purely practical.i want to say that if we reverses the ratio of theory and practical then the result will have a great change.i know that without the theory practical are not possible with greater efficiency but if we reverses the ratio the student of technical stream will have a grater experience and knowledge and he will be ready to do wonders.think about it and get back to me thanks.
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  • rk rao

    MemberOct 20, 2013

    But at the end of the day, Engineer have to be judged by what he/she has built, a system which is reliable, secure , scalable and aesthetically pleasing, not sending status report of work done in a day in English language.
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  • Void Runner

    MemberApr 3, 2014

    My personal opinion is that educationists, industry as well as students have all screwed up leading to this situation. I am not a big fan of so-called "industry-oriented education" because a basic bachelor's degree has an objective to give students the basics of the subject for use both in research and in industry. There is a limitation to just how much can be taught - at the same time there is no learning the new and advanced stuff when the basics are not clear.

    Our curricula, syllabi and labs are just fine - the problem is with industry and academia. Industry is wrong to expect a candidate to know anything other than basics - but is right in expecting them to catch up quickly. As for academia, let's just say that the problem lies in how candidates are being selected and for what. We have umpteen different branches of engineering at B.Tech level, many of which are entirely unnecessary. On top of that, we have made degrees that deprive other degree holders of jobs (The branch ECE is the worst offender I can think of, but others that come to mind are robotics, mechatronics, automobile). We have both science and engineering degrees in IT/CSE. What was the reason for all this?

    None of the above mentioned branches are actually having their own departments anywhere except in India and some other countries with similar problems as ours. What we should have focused is on getting good faculties into fewer departments and training students in core branches and specializing them through electives in the 3rd and 4th year (for example, Instrumentation and Electronics can be easily served as electives in an electrical engineering course). Instead, we created separate departments for these streams leading to fragmentation of good faculties.

    Secondly, it caused unnecessary employment. For example, today an electrical engineer who is actually good in circuit design may not get an electronics job because it requires an "electronics" degree. Similar is true for mechanical/automobile, when the fact is that these degrees hardly had earth shattering differences that one would have no clue of what would be going on in the other (do you really think an electrical engineer has no clue of a transistor circuit, or that a mechanical engineer has zero idea of vehicle dynamics?).

    On top of that, several science graduates are not getting jobs because of the existence of these degrees (e.g. if you just want someone to calculate thermodynamics of a reactor, a physicist or chemist is as good as a chemical engineer, but yet they will never hire an MSc or BSc for the same).

    The net result for all these is that instead of "more jobs for fewer streams" we end up with "less jobs for all streams". On top of that, the fragmentation of faculties leads to lower overall quality of education. This is what is plaguing our system today. One way to fix it would be to completely remove the offending branches of engineering, but that will never happen. But till then, we are stuck with the current situation.
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