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CE Project: CE Bot [PART THREE]

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ANNOUNCEMENT
: Celab.tk is no longer accessible. Please go directly to:

CE Bot (CE Lab Projects)

for the Project Website, thank you.
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Welcome to Part THREE of our Crazy Engineers robotic project, also known as CE R[sup]3[/sup]! For previous discussions, please refer to these links:

Part One
-> https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/2312-ce-project-ce-bot.html

Part Two
-> https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/3465-ce-project-ce-bot-part-two.html


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1) Introduction
CE R3(formerly CE Bot) is a project regarding the design and construction of a modular robotic system that can perform various research missions.

Its first mission is that of a semi-autonomous rover. It will consist of an array of sensors, mainly to detect it's surroundings and collect data for processing purposes. Data will be wirelessly transmitted to a host computer located a distance away. The design of rover will be modular to allow for interchangeable components and ease of future upgrades.

For more information on the CE Bot, please refer to the CE Lab website: CE Bot (CE Lab Projects)

2) Summary of Part One discussions
Formulating objectives;
Discussion opens up for defining mission and roles for a robot. A laptop would be utilized as the pre-processing unit and robot controller. It is proposed that the mission will involve data collection and rescue, amongst others. A host computer will be used in the vicinity to act the main processor of data as well as external control. To allow the robot to cater with vast types of applications, the robot will be designed modularly.
Communications;
Discussion leads to methods for processing data and which wireless technology to use to transmit data. 802.11 is proposed.

Chassis/Locomotion;
Various chassis and locomotive options were discussed, such as tracked and wheeled. Some CAD designs have been uploaded for conceptualization of ideas.
3) Summary of Part Two discussions
Chassis/Locomotion;
More conceptual designs were made on the 6 wheel chassis. With them, we can see any potential problems on component placement and structure integrity. More detailed designs will be needed but with dynamics/physics considerations.

Detailed discussions on the feasibility of the Rocker Bogie design, as well as simulations on the Phun sofware. After much deliberation, we may revert back to the original 6 wheel design due to the complexity of RB.

Glow engines was touched upon, and despite their great power to weight ratio, issues such as fuel capacity and added tanks make them non viable options. DC Motors are still considered, but will still need research on them as power and weight are still and issue.

Steering method still needs to be decided. Servos and Ackermann methods are considered.


Power Supply;
Lithium-Polymer, Sealed Lead Acid and NiMH are considered. Issues with LiPo include its high costs as well as safety concerns if not heeded. But it still has an amazing power density. SLA's are very heavy, but may work well with DC motors on the CE Bot. NiMH is similar to LiPo, but less powerful.

Solar Cells can be used to recharge batteries when the CE Bot is stationary.

Communications;
802.11 wireless testing is on going. Might consider the use of 802.11n to increase efficiency, but existing cards are expensive to procure. Antenna for 802.11g has not be fabricated yet, as possible designs are still being evaluated such as the Spider Omin directional and the Yagi.

Software;
RoboRealm can be used for basic image processing needs. Phun and Microsoft Robotic Studio can be used to simulate the dynamics of the locomotion design. No additional discussions with regards to on board software.



4) Targets for Part Three

I will be using xheavenlyx's chart for reference:


[​IMG]

  • Main focus on sensors
  • Estimation of total power consumption and power distribution design
  • Results from wireless experiments
  • Extended discussions on the Modular concept (eg connectors)
  • Finalizing chassis concept designs (hopefully!)
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Alright CEans, Part Three is where we finally get down and dirty with our designs and implementation. Yes, we still need to discuss other aspects of the Bot (especially the software), but what we've discussed already in the past needs to be developed into something more tangible.

xheavenlyx is in the midst of preparing the sensor report, so discussions on that should be swift once its ready.

Hopefully my wireless testing can be done in a month or two. Ideally it should have already been done, but I'm super swamped with university projects and the national CanSat competition.

Okay, lets get it done! Its time to up the gears, crazy engineers!

KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Sep 28, 2008
Just dropping in to say Hai-e!
*waves* Hows school going, tyler?

I found an ad in my college about a 2nd hand Sony Viao for $120, haha. Its a Pentium II, I think. I was seriously considering to get it for as a possible 2nd prototype for CE Bot, but I am sort of strapped for cash 😛
Hi folks!!
Good idea, the Part3.
.........You need to think more on the Sensors, if it is autonomous.
..or is it semi-autonomous, meaning more a remote control thing, without much independent intelligence?? This may not be appropriate and cannot be a Robot, if it is mainly a Remote controlled Vehicle.
Take my Word: everyone neglects the sensors- always- and repents later.
That would be an expensive neglect indeed.........

Sorry Kinetic_joules 😔
Good luck with your studies, but remember- the world looks at what else you can do more than how much you score. Your extra achievements are what will get you much more than just academic scores. it is possible to achieve both at the same time !
Welcome back, docel 😉

You are right, Sensors will need to be carefully thought out. Most of the sensors are autonomous, things like telemetry and ambient sensors.

The camera will be manually controlled, though. It mainly acts as the eyes for the operator. However, we can certainly choose to use the video input for image processing purposes like terrain analysis.
Hi ash!!
1. Ya!Nice to be back amid the interesting stuff!!! Was caught up with a lot of boring stuff 😔

2. ?Make it 2 cameras, for Stereo imaging. This will give the Robot a lot of intelligence- distance, color, shapes, object det.......
Most of this can be done independent of the mother processor and does not pose undue code complexity.

3. Let me know if you need help with the antenna.
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Sep 30, 2008
docel
Sorry Kinetic_joules 😔
Good luck with your studies, but remember- the world looks at what else you can do more than how much you score. Your extra achievements are what will get you much more than just academic scores. it is possible to achieve both at the same time !
Well. . . I'm almost done with high school, and I can't afford to flunk out now. . .
Yes, ash!!
The terrain mapping will add to the versatility of the Robot.
Wonder: what happened to the GLX effort?

Sure Kinetic_ !!!
Get some great grades & Good Luck to you !!👍
Drop in when you can take a break ;-)
gohm
gohm • Oct 1, 2008
another vote for terrain mapping

what about using gps to absorb the function of several other individual basic sensors?
GPS is not necessary , if you have Video Assisted Remote control.
....and it cannot really replace any navigational sensors.............
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Oct 3, 2008
Hi-ya guys! What's happening? Got anything for me to work on? Not too much, though!
desijays
desijays • Oct 24, 2008
What stage are you guys in as far as this project is concerned? Has the construction and assembly begun...?

Or are you guys in the design phase deciding the various components.. their inclusions, omissions..?

And most importantly may I ask, who is heading this project? And who are all the members involved in bringing this to fruition..? if there are too many just tell me how many !

oh, by the way.. I read part 1 and part 2. Good job guys !
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Oct 25, 2008
Hey, I am in Delhi and have recently installed a working Internet connection (at LAST!) so I am back at the project.

I was writing a report on various Sensors and their placement on the Bot with Simulated exacmples. AutoCAD simulation took most of the time so, I think I will release ver 0.7 (70% completed) of the document by tommorow.

@Desijays: Ash and me initiated the project and we are kinds co-ordinating it. There are many active members for this project who contribute good stuff regularly. We have to organize the project soon, as the planning stage has been going on for pretty long now.
durga ch
durga ch • Oct 25, 2008
hello..

I am IN!!

just waiting for my exams to be completed by NOV 5 😁
Man, I can't believe I haven't posted here for the month of October yet!

I also finish my exams in november, so I should be free-er. But, even during semester break I'm burdened with projects (CanSat & Robocon). Of course, there will still be momentum in the CE Bot project by then 😀

For the communications antennas, the CE Bot will use a spider-omni 2.4 GHz antenna for the Wi-Fi link and a standard duck antenna for other radio frequencies (like RC). For the Base Station end, a DIY 2.4 GHz patch antenna will be used for the Wi-Fi link.

Is everyone in agreement with the above?

In future phases, for the base/home station, I was thinking of using a diversity antenna setup, with multiple directional antennas facing out on all sides. That should keep the gain high! 😉
durga ch
durga ch • Oct 26, 2008
😁..

frankly I would be LEARNING with this project..

so guys have patience with me... 😁
Don't worry durga, we are all also learning with this project 😉
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Oct 28, 2008
Hey all! I'm just dropping by to say hi. . .
Hey tyler! Hows school going?

I plan to get a graphic tablet in a couple of weeks. Might be useful for some digital sketches *grin*
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Nov 9, 2008
ash
Hey tyler! Hows school going?

I plan to get a graphic tablet in a couple of weeks. Might be useful for some digital sketches *grin*
I have a graphic tablet. . . it's amazing. It's Wacom, I believe. . . School is going fine. . . I'm enjoying Chemistry a lot, but seem to be failing the class. . . ^ _ ^ I don't know why. . .
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Nov 23, 2008
Okay. . . what happened in here?!? Where's the progress!?! Lol, I have to leave the team and everyone stops. . . That's not motivation to re-join the team!
So come on! Let's get this back up and make some progress! I'm the official cheerleader! :clap: 😁
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Nov 23, 2008
I'll wait for xHx & Ash to update everyone, but here's something that we've been discussing.

We think CE BOT project is something a bit 'bigger' for our team right now. So let's start with building small robots [proposed: a robotic arm!].

Ash, xHx - over to you!
The_Big_K
We think CE BOT project is something a bit 'bigger' for our team right now.

Ash, xHx - over to you!
I don't think so. It is well within the limits of CEans.
I have already volunteered to help build the Test platform. My students are ready to fabricate the CEbot anytime. You can assume bangalorerobotics and its members are IN this fully.
Now, lets get the ball rolling..........
The_Big_K
Ash, xHx - over to you!
Uh... *looks around nervously*

😛

This project should be straight forward. It may also be useful for the CE Bot at the end. Perhaps all subsystems for the CE Bot have their own mini project to get it going? 😉

I'll create a new project thread soon. CE Bot will still remain, but it will be updated once in a while by me and xhx as we continue our research (or anyone else who wishes to contribute an idea to it)

[EDIT] Here is the new thread: https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/8373-ce-project-robotic-arm-assisting-humans.html
@ Docel
Thanks a million for your volunteering efforts!
Oh-o!!
The CEbot is much simpler and easy...and cheap.
The Prosthetic arm is much more complicated and difficult, apart from being expensive.
Still, Good luck Ash!!
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Nov 24, 2008
No issues if everyone wants the project to continue. However, I feel its high time that we start tracking our progress with the time-scale.

Can we divide the project into short term goals and assign ownership to team members?
raj87verma88
raj87verma88 • Nov 24, 2008
I second what Biggie said. The discussion has been going on since ages. Sooner or later we will have to start working.
Lets see what XhX and Ash have to say. Docel, I believe, will play a very important role in this project.
The_Big_K
No issues if everyone wants the project to continue. However, I feel its high time that we start tracking our progress with the time-scale.

Can we divide the project into short term goals and assign ownership to team members?
The way to go....should have done that in the first place. Would have seen some results by now, I feel. Lets see how many respond!!
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Nov 24, 2008
docel
The way to go....should have done that in the first place. Would have seen some results by now, I feel. Lets see how many respond!!
Yes, there was no formal start of the project. It was just a discussion that got momentum and resulted into a project.
You're right , Biggy!!
So, do we launch this officially as a true project?
It could be divided into groups:
  • Tech Group- in charge of construction & testing.
  • Research group- contributors who can add content, ideas and tech. solutions.
  • Sponsor Group- who can contribute materials, components, etc.,
  • Bossy Group- to keep track of what where how why etc.,
Just my .01paisa suggestion..........
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Nov 24, 2008
docel
You're right , Biggy!!
So, do we launch this officially as a true project?
It could be divided into groups:
  • Tech Group- in charge of construction & testing.
  • Research group- contributors who can add content, ideas and tech. solutions.
  • Sponsor Group- who can contribute materials, components, etc.,
  • Bossy Group- to keep track of what where how why etc.,
Just my .01paisa suggestion..........
That would be the corporate way 😀 ! What xHx and I discussed over the phone is to have a team of 4 core engineers who will be responsible for the project. The team will be free to select additional members (but ONLY IF required)

All these team members will be recognized through special titles on the forums and will be responsible for everything. Regarding the sponsorship - there are two ways to go about it -

1. We request for donations among our community
2. We request corporates to sponsor parts or the whole project.

But, we need to have the designs freezed before we ask for sponsorships. The proposed robotic arm should progress on these lines. The CE BOT project will continue, however I guess our team should focus on the Robotic Arm project. xHx believes it could be done in short time and we can make it successful.

That said, I'm not experienced in BOT development. So please correct me if there are better ways to go about the project. Our aim is to execute the project successfully and build our own confidence.

Agree to all, except the Arm.
Like I said before, its quite difficult to fabricate a prosthetic human-assist arm ( the thing to assist eating etc.,). A normal arm is quite easy and cheap, costs next to nothing. ( VERTIGO This was made overnight and has a 1.4mtr reach.)
durga ch
durga ch • Nov 24, 2008
hey I want to be in too !!

I am job less ( nothing to learn and only working!!! 😔 *yawns*)for next couple months... I can be of some help !!! 😀
Welcome, Ambassador!!!
Be nice to have you arbitrating us footloose folks 😁
raj87verma88
raj87verma88 • Nov 25, 2008
Count me in. Though, I must warn people, I don't have any experience in Robotics.
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Nov 26, 2008
Count me in too. I have some experience and knowledge in embedded system and a good programming knowledge
OK!!
Nice to see some reactions,atlast.....Welcome guys!!
raj87verma88
raj87verma88 • Nov 26, 2008
docel
OK!!
Nice to see some reactions,atlast.....Welcome guys!!
You can say Welcome back. I had been quite active on CE Bot part 1 and 2 and have many posts there. I can't say that for part 3 though.
Nice to see some enthusiasm 😉

Just to note, it does not have to be a prosthetic arm. Most likely a remote control or autonomous mechanism (out of whatever material) that is fixed in place, such as a table, bed, floor etc. Just imagine those robotic arms at the automobile factories, but much smaller scale.

I was just thinking about johnnyonthespot's post (HERE) about using the Wii nunchucks as accelerometer sensors, wirelessly connected to the robotic arm. That might be useful for this project (if you dont mind us borrowing that concept, johnny 😉 )

Another one is using a glove to virtually control it. It'll be easier to manually control the movement of the arms along the axis you want it to with the glove, rather than using multiple joysticks. Something that can make people's lives easier, I suppose.

The actual mechanism is quite straight forward. Have one or two servos per joint, connect them all to a servo controller. The servos will be fixed on servo brackets.

Anyhow, before I get carried away, lets continue discussions here:
https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/8373-ce-project-robotic-arm-assisting-humans.html

Regarding CE Bot, I'd like to still pursue some ideas such as the communications and terrain analysis, since it's linked to my university projects 😀
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Nov 27, 2008
Even before we go for communications and terrain analysis we can start with the basic design and functionality and may be build a framework as well as to how this thing will move and how other components will be connecting to it
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Nov 28, 2008
durga
hey I want to be in too !!

I am job less ( nothing to learn and only working!!! 😔 *yawns*)for next couple months... I can be of some help !!! 😀
Don't feel bad. I have no purpose either.
bayazidahmed
Even before we go for communications and terrain analysis we can start with the basic design and functionality and may be build a framework as well as to how this thing will move and how other components will be connecting to it
Ah, we've been doing that for a while now with all the discussions. The basic design would be the 6 wheeled chassis. We also know that we'll use the old Acer laptop.

What is not decided yet is the type of sensors to place, as well as the type of communications needed. For a good preview of sensors we can use, refer to xhx's attachment @ the CE Lab website:
Sensors ‎(CE Lab Projects‎)

KINETIC_JOULES
Don't feel bad. I have no purpose either.
All engineers have a purpose in life 😀

The project isn't being killed off. We are just shifting some focus to a more viable project, which is the Robotic Arm. Those still interested can continue with the CE Bot, but it will never be faced paced. If you are not too busy with school, you can still help out with designs. Improve on your existing 6 wheeled ones.. variate the designs, such as making the body wider and flatter, etc. You are the concept artist, let your imagination run!

I have to postpone my purchase on the graphic tablet.. I've been blowing hundreds of dollars on my university projects, and I'm near broke *sigh* It'll take a while to claim some of the money back.
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Dec 3, 2008
All engineers have a purpose in life 😀

The project isn't being killed off. We are just shifting some focus to a more viable project, which is the Robotic Arm. Those still interested can continue with the CE Bot, but it will never be faced paced. If you are not too busy with school, you can still help out with designs. Improve on your existing 6 wheeled ones.. variate the designs, such as making the body wider and flatter, etc. You are the concept artist, let your imagination run!

I have to postpone my purchase on the graphic tablet.. I've been blowing hundreds of dollars on my university projects, and I'm near broke *sigh* It'll take a while to claim some of the money back.
I'm not TOO busy. I've a term paper coming up and I just finished an easy chem. test. I've got several art projects due. . . but otherwise, I'm not really busy. "Concept artist"? I like the sound of that. What exactly are you meaning, though?
Ashraf HZ
Ashraf HZ • Dec 5, 2008
Ah, concept artist in our case means doing the chassis designs in software and predict what it'll look and how it operates! Its something like what you have already done before, but now you can add the situations in which the robot will be in (such as traveling across rough terrain, picking up an object, etc). This requires lots of creativity and design skill, which you are best at 😀

With these things, it can help us "see" the actions and situations they would be it. We'll give you the necessary inputs later so you can start work on it. But keep in mind that our pace has been slowed down. I'll PM you more details later.
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Dec 27, 2008
Hey guys. . . why aren't the creative juices flowing!? I miss you all! ^ _ ^
Most of it has flowed to other projects for now 😛

There are some things going on behind the scenes as well, which will help with the project organization of all our projects. Sorry, I was supposed to send you some instructions, but I'll wait when the internal stuff is complete.

Why don't you check out these projects:
-> https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/8373-ce-project-robotic-arm-assisting-humans.html

-> https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/2104-think-crazy-alarm-clock-deaf-people.html

and drop by the Chillax forum too!

We also have a creative writing competition which is ending in a few days. Maybe you can think of something quick!

-> https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum...-discussions/10395-write-win-discussions.html
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Jan 11, 2009
TASK UPDATES

To:
raj87verma88

Task: Procurement of a base model Laptop for use in CE Bot. With following specs:

1x SERIAL PORT
1x PARALLEL PORT
2x or more USB PORTS
1x CD ROM (simple)
1x HARD DRIVE SLOT (in all models)
1x or more RAM SLOTS (better if RAM is present, 128 or more)
1x KEYBOARD
1x PS/2 MOUSE CONNECTION (optional)
1x EXTERNAL MONITOR CONNECTION
1x BATTERY (optional)

Time: 1 week for look-out. 2nd week for delivery.

Info: My original idea to use my old Acer is not possible as I do not have it with me in India, so we will be using an old post-year 2000 model as the main processor.


To: Ash

Task: Post a report on tests conducted on Wireless models. Any information is fine.

Time: 3 days. Till or on 15th Thursday, Jan, 09.


To: Other Active members of CE Bot Project


Task: Everyone answer the following Q's:
1. Why are you interested in this project?
2. What areas you are Skilled at? Eg: Software? C, J, C++, Python etc, Electronics etc etc
3. Do you want to be a part of something big on CE? (Do I hear a YES?)
Ah, I see this project still has a lifeline 😀

I dont think I can compile the wireless results in time ( a bit busy with uni stuff), but I'll see what I can do by end of this week.

Do we have the funds for procurement already? And, if we are not using the laptop anymore, perhaps we could just buy a low powered motherboard instead? We'll have a heck more ports and expansion options to play around with, like the possibility of adding I/O PCI expansion cards (e.g those 10-100 TTL level ones).

For the CPU, we can use those 45W AMD Semprons 😀 Yes, power consumption might still be an issue, but we can still handle it.

[EDIT]
Regarding the software aspect, maybe we can make that a separate CE Project? An OS environment for embedded/robotic systems? At least we can break down the CE Bot project, as behemoth as it is, into smaller and manageable chunks that can also be used for other purposes.

It's just like the CE Robotic Arm project. Results from that can be implemented into CE Bot easily. I think the communication aspect can also be done as a standalone project.

What say?
raj87verma88
raj87verma88 • Jan 12, 2009
I have started the search for a laptop. Let me see if I can find one. I will post about the find in 5-6 days.
raj87verma88
I have started the search for a laptop. Let me see if I can find one. I will post about the find in 5-6 days.
Search for AMD Sempron and Intel Celeron motherboards well while you're at it 😀
raj87verma88
raj87verma88 • Jan 12, 2009
Do you want any specific configuration or any specific model?
Nope, any brand would do. But, try to aim for the M-ATX sizes.

Just make sure it has some PCI slots, and integrated graphics. After we see their specs, we can narrow down on what configuration can be of use for us.
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Jan 12, 2009
I like your idea about the stand-alone motherboards, will have a lot of functionality. But the thing is laptop MoBo's are already suited for low-power operations, and moreover, we really dont want to complicate the project by inclusing a PCI slot, PCI for a GPU? or for other ADC/interface device? We can use the parallel port for that, as we talked earlier.

The parallel port will be enough to interface 2 to 3 ATmega8 uC's!! Which have onboard USB connection, more serial ports AND 8 to 10 channel Analog to Digital converters!

Interfacing uC's to the parallel port may sound slow, yes, but the point there is to keep the uC's independent, acting like general managers in a large organisation, taking care of basic calulations and stuff. The motherboard is like the...well, board of directors.

I will make a plan of this one in a week. I just realized we dont even have a model yet!
Me thinks a Laptop is not necessary at all........
Well, the original reason why we wanted to use laptop was because you already had one to spare 😀 But, if you want to get a new system.. it makes sense to do some comparisons, especially the cost/performance factor.

Power would not be much of an issue if you are just using a low powered motherboard.

Besides, I think you'll be risking too much with just 1 parallel port. You already know the current draw must not exceed a certain level. The PCI port will give use absolute flexibility, because there are so many different PCI modules we can use. Do we need more parallel ports? Slot in an I/O PCI card. Need 100 TTL ports? Slot one in. Its not a matter of sophistication.. its more of more options available for us to use. At least if we plan ahead, we don't need to change drastically our models.

And most importantly. One of our objectives was to make this project reproducible by others. I think its easier for others to procure motherboards rather than laptops.

xhx, I highly recommend you to check this particular motherboard:
Intel D201GLY2 Mini-ITX mainboard | silentpcreview.com

Its only $70 😉

Specs:
Processor Class: Intel Celeron 215 processor in a 479 socket with a 533 MHz system bus
Number of Processors Supported: 1
Chipset Used: SiS SiS662 Chipset
Front Side Bus Supported: 533 MHz
Memory Types Supported: 1GB (max) DDR2 533 MHz, DDR2 400 MHz DIMMs
Number of Memory Slots: 1 (240-pin)
Video Integrated: Integrated SiS Mirage 1 graphic engine
Audio Integrated: ADI AD1888 audio codec
Network Controller On-Board : 10/100 Mbits/sec LAN subsystem using the Broadcom LAN adapter device
Onboard Device : 1 serial port, 1 parallel port
IDE Mode Supported : One parallel ATA IDE interface with UDMA 33, ATA-66/100/133 support
SCSI Controller On-board : None
AGP Slot : None
Slots Available : One PCI Conventional bus connector
Number of USB Ports : 3 Back, 3 Front USB 2.0
Form Factor : uATX, 6.75 x 6.75 Inches

raj87verma88
raj87verma88 • Jan 12, 2009
I will put the laptop search on hold for a while. Let us first be sure, laptop or motherboard.
Well, keep searching for laptops. We want to make some comparisons.

Also guys, check out these mini ITX boards:
Mainboards Mini-ITX

We should aim for the ones costing under $150

xhx, I think mini-ITX are similar to the mainboards of laptops. I think its wise to get them? At least we'll cut costs for the extras we don't need.
Check out Gumstix before you decide on Laptops or ITXs......!!
docel
Check out Gumstix before you decide on Laptops or ITXs......!!
Gumstix looks good 😀 Love the expansion card options! I'll probably use it for my own projects... *grin*

Though, I'm still rooting for ITX as the platform for CE Bot 😛 (cost/performance/ease/expandability wise).
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Jan 14, 2009
OhMyGod. So true! Thanks for reminding me Ash and Docel! That was the primary reason, since I had a spare and it had no use at home.

So now we have to look into ITX, MoBo, or gumstix or an Atmel based uC (some are very advance).

We also have to look into the fact, if we really really need an onboard linux. My primary reason for an onboard linux was to experiment with the following (but now I am having a second thought on giving this a priority):

1. User Interface on robot's screen. (Also possible with seperate LCD driver)
2. Onboard advance calculations. (Also possible with faster 32-bit uC's like gimstix)
3. Expandable by software. (Expansion will need hardware parts anyway, so why focus so much on software)

So...Do we really need an advance MoBo rite now?
Cannot we include it in another project? Like a CE Home Automation project with onboard linux controlling home electronics, with a sexy User Interface created on Python Tk using a Mini-ITX? (This was just an example 😀 )

Here is the features list of features in the Overo Earth MotherBoards by Gumstix (Important in Bold):

Cost: $150

24-bit LCD signals
2 Peripheral Interupts (VERY IMPORTANT), reset, wake and power-on
I2C signaling, PWM lines (6), UART, IR_UART PORT (InfraRed)
Headset out lines, power, ground, backup, Pseudodifferential mic
A/D (6 x 10 bits), 1-wire signaling
USB OTG signals (Host or Client mode)
Address-bus chip selects (for Multiple Boards), Address-bus control lines, Address lines 1:10
Data lines 0:15, SPI bus with 2 selects, IRQ line (again important)
8-bit MMC signals
Camera input (12 bit)(Very Good!!)
Power and 1.8W supply
Linux 2.6.27 or higher

------------------------------------

Intel D201GLY2 Mini-ITX mainboard | silentpcreview.com


Cost: $70

Processor Class: Intel Celeron 215 processor in a 479 socket with a 533 MHz system bus
Number of Processors Supported: 1
Chipset Used: SiS SiS662 Chipset
Front Side Bus Supported: 533 MHz
Memory Types Supported: 1GB (max) DDR2 533 MHz, DDR2 400 MHz DIMMs
Number of Memory Slots: 1 (240-pin)
Video Integrated: Integrated SiS Mirage 1 graphic engine
Audio Integrated: ADI AD1888 audio codec
Network Controller On-Board : 10/100 Mbits/sec LAN subsystem using the Broadcom LAN adapter device
Onboard Device : 1 serial port, 1 parallel port
IDE Mode Supported : One parallel ATA IDE interface with UDMA 33, ATA-66/100/133 support
SCSI Controller On-board : None
AGP Slot : None
Slots Available : One PCI Conventional bus connector
Number of USB Ports : 3 Back, 3 Front USB 2.0
Form Factor : uATX, 6.75 x 6.75 Inches
Looks like you're set on the Gumstix idea eh 😉 I think the Verdex Pro versions are more suitable for robotic applications though.

Anyway, I just feel ITX boards are more easier AND cheaper to develop.
raj87verma88
raj87verma88 • Jan 16, 2009
Putting laptop search on hold for a moment. Anyway I am sorry to inform you that I haven't found one till now. Almost everywhere I asked the answer was, "Why don't you buy a new one? It will cost the same as a second hand"
raj87verma88
Putting laptop search on hold for a moment. Anyway I am sorry to inform you that I haven't found one till now. Almost everywhere I asked the answer was, "Why don't you buy a new one? It will cost the same as a second hand"
Yeah, I guess that will be the situation. I think we'll cut out the laptop idea and focus on either ITX (mini & pico) or Gumstix.

Can you try looking for mechanical parts instead? Have a visit at the junk yard and see if you can find some small wheels (preferbly six of them), maybe like those on Quad bikes. Also, lots of gears, shafts, rack and pinion, etc. Anything you find interesting, I guess 😀 Have someone to help you.
raj87verma88
raj87verma88 • Jan 17, 2009
Could you upload the basic design of the Bot. That way it would be easier to search for parts as I would have an idea of how many of each part are required and with what dimensions.
Oh man, took a while to find this old design:
https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/3465-ce-project-ce-bot-part-two-5.html#post17207

We'll give a large tolerance in terms of dimensions since its just a prototype to test functionality. Since we need a prime mover to base the design from, I suggest we'll start from the wheels. I think those quad bike or go kart ones would be the maximum size we need.

Go kart rims: https://www.gokartsupply.com/rims.htm
ATV/Quad rims: https://www.atvworld.com/tyres.htm
raj87verma88
raj87verma88 • Jan 17, 2009
6 inches rims? What size bot are we aiming for? What will be its weight? I am still rooting for Differential Steering with wheel and chains. But will get these parts. The mechanical parts won't be difficult to get as I know many places in Delhi where such parts are available quite cheap.
Ah, I guess 6 inches is too big. How about 3-4? Maybe the size should not exceed 75 cm in length.

Its an all terrain rover, so it'll need some decent capabilities to drive over shrubs and some mud.

We can't know the weight until we finalize all the components. All I know is that the DC motors and batteries will be the heaviest. As I said, we need a prime mover, so we'll choose the wheels since its easier to find an existing size.

Patty, is it possible for you to design your idea? I have limited mechanical knowledge when it comes to designing, as shown by my reliance with lego 😉

[EDIT]
Can these types of wheels do? Especially the first one.
https://specialtytirestore.com/go_krt_l_ass.htm
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Jan 17, 2009
Oh!
I thought this project was dead and I stopped coming on CE! How foolish of me! Anyways since I am back I will start right away by answering xheavenlyx's questions.

1. It will help me in learning something new.
2. Software, C/C++. Anything related to embedded systems.
3. YES!
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Jan 17, 2009
Lol!!!! 😁😁😁 ahmed!! 😀 that was a nice one!

And what Q's are those???? wait lemme check...
oohk, the Q's! Good.

ANNOUNCEMENTS

1. As Ash had suggested a while back this project will be broken down into several parts that we will do either individually or side-by-side.

2. A core team is going to be formed and only those members will be responsible for the design documentation and then fabrication (differnt team depending on geographical location).

3. Our FIRST priority is making a simple design document. Then we can show it to anyone who asks for it,and can be used to get us the necessary funds. I will make a draft this week.

4. A very important point (found with a LOT of help from Docel) is that it is logistically, practically and financially impossible to make different parts of a BOT in different locations and combine them. THINK ABOUT IT. Only Research works this way.

5. So we will focus on great research. Meaning? Learning to document things in an organized way! This is a very important step for us engineers!!! Here is an example: A Document I wrote on CE Bot Sensors: https://sites.google.com/a/crazyengineers.com/ce-lab-projects/CE-Bot/sensors/CER3.doc?attredirects=0

6. After everything the Build Team will start making the bot in one geographical location, after it gets approved by Big_K for funds.
I agree with what xhx has listed.

I suggest we go this route for documentation:

- Proposal
- Preliminary Design Review
- Critical Design Review

Proposal (I've bolded the important points)
We list out our missions and objectives, and the technical approaches for completing the objectives. Preliminary design of the CE Bot hardware would be described, along with the required sensors. A system block diagram is also included that will show major system components and interfaces. We can also try mentioning the performance baseline of the CE Bot that is consistent with our budget and scope. The last two sections are a list of facilities we can use, and the time schedule and budget.

In my opinion, we have enough material do complete the proposal already. Its just a matter of compilation and synthesizing the needed info.

Preliminary Design Review

In this documentation, we should provide more detailed overview of the mission, requirements and design. For requirements, we would now include what each subsystem or module is supposed to do, instead of just the overall CE Bot requirements. More block diagrams are also included in this PDR. From the proposed sensors or components we listed in the proposal, we now provide more detailed analysis of them.

Next, we focus on the "On Board Data Handling". This is a term usually used in aerospace for software located on the aircraft or spacecraft. We can adapt it as software on the CE Bot itself. So, in this section we include the design requirements, programming languages to be used, development environments, data rates, processor loadings, and high level block diagrams.

Following that is the Electrical and Power subsystem. Same drill with the OBDH, but this time on power and circuitry of the CE Bot. Design requirements, electrical system block diagram, power system design and analysis, and the preliminary power budget with margin allocations

Next up is Communications. We should include the methodology, definition of data to be transmitted and received, bandwidth requirements, frequency selection and antenna designs.

Then its the Mechanical and Structure stuff. Design requirements, explanation and comparison of various designs considered, structural design layout including placement of components, list of materials chosen, and finally a mass budget.
After that, the Integration and Testing section. Here we describe how we plan to test the CE Bot, facilities to be used, as well as methods of integrating the components together. This is important because we need to decide how we should integrate considering CEans are scattered around the world.

Something unique for aerospace projects is the "Ground Station". Somehow, we can still use it for our CE Bot because we are transmitting and controlling it from a host computer far away. Thus, we should list out its requirements, architecture and software selection (including the ones needed for data analysis). Quite similar to OBDH.

After that (quite a lot of sections eh?) is Concept of Operations. This discusses the operation of the CE Bot in order to achieve its mission objectives. We can provide a mission timeline or diagram of a typical mission (such as a remote sensor or rescue operation). Also, we should provide the process of how data received is analyzed and presented.

Finally, we have the Project Management and Resources section. This includes preliminary estimates of component, manufacturing, and service costs. In addition, a more detailed schedule should be include that would a list of major milestones, estimates of completion dates, and required resources. We can use things like a Gannt chart to complete it.

Critical Design Review
Oh boy, I aint going into this yet. This documentation can be twice or thrice the length of the PDR. Basically, by this time, we should have completed hardware aspects and our first protoype. Full of technical stuff.

Okay, thats how it is done. For sure, this style of documentation greatly differs to what you may have done in university. I recommend this method because its a surefire way for us to get something done, IF we follow the steps correctly. My CanSat project required these type of documentation (including a fourth called Flight Readiness Review). We had a 5 month time frame to research, create something from scratch, and complete a functioning pico satellite.This was done parallel to my existing studies and examinations because it was a competition, not a course requirement.

We do not have to strictly follow the order or content of the documentation (especially the PDR). But we should closely model it to suit our own project.
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Jan 18, 2009
Wow, an excellent method for writing our reports, Ash. But isnt this specifically for Aeronautical Sciences? Anyway, since you are familiar with PDR, you will also know WBS that can be used in our case for the system model. Plus an important change in CE Bot is announced below.

Work Breakdown Structure (from wiki):

A Work Breakdown Structure (WBS) in project management and systems engineering, is a tool that defines a project and groups the project’s discrete work elements in a way that helps organize and define the total work scope of the project.[1]
[​IMG] [​IMG]
Example of a work breakdown structure of an aircraft system.


A Work breakdown structure element may be a product, data, a service, or any combination. WBS also provides the necessary framework for detailed cost estimating and control along with providing guidance for schedule development and control. Additionally the WBS is a dynamic tool and can be revised and updated as needed by the project manager.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Present CE Bot Chassis and drive mechanism design:


Presently, we were thinking of "designing" and "fabricating" our own chassis and drive mechanism for CE Bot. But now we will be using an already built chassis. Pre-fabricated.



Why pre-fabricated?


While starting the project CE Bot for CrazyEngineers, a very basic idea was forgotten.

The first few projects the members make for CE MUST be simple in a way that can be built by anyone interested!


How can we use a pre-fab chassis, that anyone can afford/modify?


By using an existing off-road RC car from the market. There are 3 main benefits of an RC car.


1. There are many designs to choose from.
2. It cane be easily modified to fit our needs.
3. The Remote Control can be interfaced to a PC, if the range is already higher. or the RC can help us in debugging design problems.


And lastly, it does not need much modification to fit our modules. Anyone with dremel, hacksaw and a blade will be able to do away with the unwanted plastic.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wait for the detailed report for more information and further instructions to the active members.


Present list:


Ash
xheavenlyx
Raj87verma88
B.Ahmed
*Docel
*Mayur
*Big_K


*Important to the project.
Yep, the report style is used in aerospace. However, they are also specifically used in designing a single prototype or product that does not need to be commercialized. That is, its a functional technological demonstrator to meet its mission objectives.

I think the WBS is a bit of an overkill. For it to work you'd need to follow the design principles, which take some time to figure out in the first place 😉

If we are choosing the RC route, then we'll need to base dimensions on whatever model we choose. It may be easier, but it does restrict our choices. So far there is no cheap 6 x 6 RC car/vehicle.

And, the objective was not that it is "easy" to do. The objective was that anyone can duplicate what we are doing. That can be done by open sourcing our schematics and designs 😀
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Jan 18, 2009
Sure, for this project we will use the above mentioned method. I will write a draft in 3 days and put it up on CE Labs Google Site and here. Or if you start it and email it to me for the other half, that will do too.

Yea, complete WBS protocol is more than 150 pages by DoD (department of defense)! But we will be doing the basics of it. What we all learnt in college and a bit of WBS method.

Since, in your 6 wheel design, the middle 2 wheels were free moving, we can add this as a modification to the structure. Again, anyone with dremel maybe able to do that, and it NEED NOT BE SAME FOR ALL FUTURE BUILDERS, this may teach the future builders to be more creative with their designs! Secondly, custom CNC milled chassis will be muchhh more costly logistically, and it is a process with heavvvyyyy feedback revisions (If there is one problem in a part, it need to be re-milled).

Ash
And, the objective was not that it is "easy" to do. The objective was that anyone can duplicate what we are doing. That can be done by open sourcing our schematics and designs :smile:
I said simple not easy. Finding simple solutions to complicated problems gives creative training. And Open-Sourcing a "custom fabricated in the CNC mill, Bot" will not make it do-able for potential builders (Not many have access to a CNC). So let this be the first project. Later when our experience grows and completed projects under CE belly grows, we can think of expanding the CE Bot project 😀 You know, even I am finding it hard to let go of several functionalities! But thats how we must proceed now, its been too long.


TASK: EVERYONE

Lets look for 6 wheeled, it not then a good 4 wheeled RC will do. Patty, can you help in Delhi? We both may need to visit shops here in the coming days 😀
raj87verma88
raj87verma88 • Jan 18, 2009
I am ready. But why not make our own chassis instead of buying an RC.
Ah, now I know why you are avoiding fabrication. You are thinking of CNC milling!

Fabrication can be as easy as cutting metal bars and bolting or riveting them together 😉 I'm pretty sure thats how most robots in uni are done. Thats how I've done it, anyway.

Aluminum bars (whether it is square, pipe or "L" shape) available in hardware stores usually follow standard sizes.
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Jan 18, 2009
See, the thing is. This one needs to be really simple. As simple as possible to build it. Alumenim bars in Dubai come in Tons 😀 and now I am delhi so I can think of it. But for others who do not have easy access to materials will not be able to make it.

My point was, for the first 3 to 4 CE Lab projects, we make them verryy simple for the materials but software and electronics wise let it be superior.

Can you come oneline on yahoo ash? (I will delete this line when u do, and Patty check ur PM inbox)
So, after discussions with xhx, we'll decide to continue fabrication of the CE Bot.

However, we must finish with the CAD designs as soon as possible. Patty, can you work on a design based on the 6 wheel idea?
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Jan 19, 2009
good going
Rifaa
Rifaa • Jan 19, 2009
Hey guys. I'm kinda new hear, and I have read this project and the thought of this quite exciting and I hope to be of any help.
The thing is me being a repair oriented tech, designing robotics is a bit too much for me when it comes to CAD and software control and implementation but I am learning these things cause this is now going to be major after all robotics is the way of the future.
But fill me in and I will do what I can. My be I can provide somethings like Li-ion for the Power cause I have a few of those around I used to built stuff's.
and designing chargers is no problem. But I don't have a solar panels but can implement solar if I get the proper specs. I got servo motor's ( a few) steppers. If you guys tel me what you need, I can fill in.
Still, most of it done by me will be the learning part.

The idea of using a ready made RC chassis will be easy than building one. If building you have to use aluminum to make it lighter so tht battery drain will be minimal. Molding a die cast is way out of our league, I think. Right!!!
Using sensors to measure proximity is a must for these kind of thing. A lot I must say.
So keep me updated. I will be checking almost every night, If I am not working over night.
Good Luck
Rifaa
Rifaa
Rifaa • Jan 19, 2009
So what's the verdict

I see it's been started way back...so how far are we now?
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Jan 19, 2009
Note: Guys, use [youtube]code[/ youtube] tags to embed videos in posts 😀
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Jan 20, 2009
Even I did a rocker-bogie suspension simulations on Phun itself. Actually we had dropped the idea of using Rocker-Bogie because:

1. If we were going to make it, it would be smaller in size (cuz of cost) and smaller RB does not work very well (according to the discussions here, I forgot the detailed reason).

2. Making a bigger model is extremely complicated and costly. Out 1st and foremost aim for CE Bot is that other members can actually make CE Bot with not much trouble.

And Ash, showing me the Athlete robot is like showing tasty treats to a hungry dog!! 😀 I wish I could make it all day long. Its not possible to make it at CE presently. Simple. UNLESS we get a localized station to work at in Delhi or in Bombay (or Pune).

Anyway, here is the sim I did on Rocker-Bogie (which we are not building):

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPpzbl-2uQE[/youtube]

And Rifaa, we have gone a loooong long way, but only in discussions, so dont worry 😀 here is a link to our CE Labs documentation and project page. https://sites.google.com/a/crazyengineers.com/ce-lab-projects/
Lol, yeah, I though Patty linked to your simulations.

Lets not focus on chassis that we can't aim for in our first prototype. Make it simple and easy. Or else we'll be running in circles again!
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Jan 20, 2009
Ash but there is a problem. You say we fabricate and I agree since it can be done, and its very important for any engineer. But the thing is here on CE Bot, presently, only you have fabricated one before and for me or Patty to send a design on Docel, we should have been experienced, since I cannot "imagine" a dimention for motor cage and draw it!! I need to build it and test it and then redesign and agian buld-test-design, or Docel will be laughing his A&& off while building it 😀

Thats how a project is done, rite? It has iterations and even then we need to have some experience. So...can you give a small example of how to imagine dimensions and then we may proceed from there (!?)
xhx, we'll just discuss the designs together before submitting it to Docel 😛

We'll start of with a sketch first, and not worry about exactly dimensions of the components yet. At the very least, we'll imagine a cube as the DC motor for example.

What is most important is the placement of the components. Only when we know exactly which component we need, then we can add the correct dimensions of the cage/holder/drillling holes, etc.

Remember Tyler's sketches? She is only 16, yet she can do wonderful concept designs of the CE Bot. Thats what we should start off first.
After some thought, we shall stick to using Google SketchUp for the designs. It is accurate enough for our purposes.

Everyone, please download GSU version 7 here:
Google SketchUp

Take a look at the tutorial videos, and you can learn the basics very quickly compared to the industrial CAD programs.

Now, to make our lives much easier, we will utilize ready made parts from the Google 3D Warehouse. Some parts of interests include:

ANSI standard metal bars/pipes: ANSI Standard by Alibre Inc. - Google 3D Warehouse

Quad wheel:
https://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=ebb8a396b8ab418bdbe96d177ee79370

Robotic parts: Airman00's Robotics Collection by Eric - Google 3D Warehouse

Various mechanical parts:
https://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/cldetails?mid=b608faa2a0aaa27c32d120408a2ff5f&prevstart=0

Gumstix parts 😛 : Gumstix - Google 3D Warehouse Search

So, its now just a matter of combining these parts properly. Much easier than trying to extrude your own parts on CAD right?

Good luck!
Rifaa
Rifaa • Jan 23, 2009
Downloading Google SketchUp
I'll follow up the details later, right now got a job to attend to
C ya
Rifaa
Downloading Google SketchUp
I'll follow up the details later, right now got a job to attend to
C ya
Awesome! Looking forward to see your progress on that
Rifaa
Rifaa • Jan 23, 2009
Ok I got GoogleSketchUpProWEN it's got abt 480 minutes trail 😕
Ok Installed perfectly with three programmes.
Style Builder, Google SketchUp 7 and Layout 2.

First it was PRO, 😕😕
Confusing...AAAAH!!! What the heck !! I'll download the second one too "GoogleSketchUp7".. And then we'll seee.
Later

OK Got the second one two..Now what?
Ok It says I got the pro version so now I'm set I think, now awaiting further input, BTW any body else want this software?
Well, the free version would suffice 😛

Rifaa, can you try checking out all the old concept designs of the CE Bot? The most recent one will be of the 6 wheel variant (Click-> https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/3465-ce-project-ce-bot-part-two-5.html#post17207). We want to pursue with that, starting with a more accurate and proportional designs using Google SketchUp.

We have compiled some information of the CE Bot at the main project site, but it sill needs a little updating:
https://sites.google.com/a/crazyengineers.com/ce-lab-projects/CE-Bot

Sorry, I overlooked your previous comments. Yep, aluminum would be the main material for the chassis. Bars, rods, L shaped, sheets.. they are available at hardware shops at standard sizes. And, we do want to try to implement the solar panels! But that can only be done after we finalize the components, and subsequently the power budget. It will not power directly, rather, it will act as the battery recharger when the CE Bot is in "minimal" mode.

Thanks for showing interest, Rifaa. Your help would be really valuable for this project 😀

Our Admin, Biggie, plans to issue @crazyengineers.net email domains for those participating in projects, to allow better communication amongst the group. That way we can discuss things quickly.
Rifaa
Rifaa • Jan 25, 2009
I am going thru these right now, but communication will be minimal but will be checking almost every night.
I got this hectic urgent job at our hospital to fix A vector drive inverter, getting parts from USA, so will be a bit out of reach for a few days. not much.
Later
Rifaa
I am going thru these right now, but communication will be minimal but will be checking almost every night.
I got this hectic urgent job at our hospital to fix A vector drive inverter, getting parts from USA, so will be a bit out of reach for a few days. not much.
Later
Vector drive inverter? sounds cool 😛

Good luck with that!
Okay, heres a quick drafting of a CE Bot frame. I was just messing around with the ready made components. All I needed to do was align and rotate 😀

You guys should give it a try!

[​IMG]
[​IMG]

Dont ask me whats with the triangle thing 😛
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Feb 17, 2009
Wowee! It's been a while! So, explain to me. . . what's been happening in here? What god stuff did I miss?
gohm
gohm • Feb 17, 2009
please pardon me for bein off topic....

wow, welcome back KJ! Nice to see you around again & I hope you will dive right back in.
KINETIC_JOULES
Wowee! It's been a while! So, explain to me. . . what's been happening in here? What god stuff did I miss?
Whoa, a "tyler" sighting! 😛 Welcome back. Hows things with you?

Right now we are focusing on simple designs. We have some volunteers who can fabricate the robot at their workshop, so we need to give some designs to work on first.

To standardize things, we opt to use Google Sketch Up. You're already comfortable with it, so no issues with that. The difference now is that we want to use the same components and materials across different designs.

Refer to this post:
https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/5315-ce-project-ce-bot-part-three-9.html#post38773

Those parts can easily be gotten at hardware shops, and they are easy to fabricate with.
Rifaa
Rifaa • Feb 18, 2009
Hey I got small car, may be it can be used as a bot. I will try to post a pic .....wait.
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Feb 18, 2009
Awesome work guys! You've defiantly made some progress while I was gone! I've finally decided that my strong point is graphic designing. . . and well, I'm taking a liking to chemistry. . . ^ _ ^
Rifaa
Hey I got small car, may be it can be used as a bot. I will try to post a pic .....wait.
You mean, an RC car?

@ tyler
Wishing you the best for your future graphic designing work 😛
Rifaa
Rifaa • Feb 20, 2009
Ummm! Not exactly, It's quite big actually. hee hee hee,
But it has one hell of a torque u know, I got the pic, I'm posting it a few minutes
gohm
gohm • Feb 21, 2009
Rifaa, ok, your "few minutes" are quite long, are you practising to write a suspense novel? =) only teasing
Rifaa
Rifaa • Feb 21, 2009
he he he , 😛 I know my few minutes dragged along, u won't believe what happened.
@ biggies : U remember me asking about a lap repair tutor, well, the lap is repaired and due to unavailability of my camera, I used a DV cam to video the whole thing and had a friend to do it, and later I would use the screen prints as tutor pics, well here is what happened, my friend footage was not tht good, after transferring to my PC, I found out tht the bugger is always as in an earth quack, very hard to get a steady screen print and the best part is the beginning half is over written, it seems I had a pro to video tape. tough luck. 😔

@ gohm: the car video is at the bigining, I took it early before the lap repair.
but the good news is I got a new pic just now, so here it is.
[​IMG]
[​IMG]
@ biggie: but I managed to get some pics for the tutor, I will document it and send u a pdf, then u can post it if u like.
Cheerrs
[​IMG]
gohm
gohm • Feb 22, 2009
lol, great car. Battery powered?
gohm
gohm • Feb 22, 2009
So back to the bot, I see we still need to design the drive system. two dc motors providing power via chain drive to each side. spped controller providing 2 forward & one reverse speeds. six-wheeled. This will allow great traction for a variety of surfaces and a short turning radius as it can turn within it's length "tank style".
Rifaa
Rifaa • Feb 22, 2009
Hee heee laugh all u want, atleast I got me self a car 😉
It is battery powered, rear wheel drive, can carry a 2 to 3 year old, so I guess the motor is quite powerful for our purpose, seems we have to work on the drive train and additional wheels, I think this chassis can give us a basic Idea on how to go on about it. Right.
Adding a remote control is no biggy, I can possible get a good remote off in ebay. And use li-on's instead of lead acid to make it light since extra things will be added like camera's and stuff.
So what do u say.
Very tempting. You are right, could probably use your car as a basis to start from.. can you open it up and take pics of the steering system? If we can implement a rudimentary ackermann system for both the front and rear wheels, we can save some weight with steering servos (One instead of four).

What is the running time of the car, and what are the specs of the motor and battery?
Rifaa
Rifaa • Feb 23, 2009
rudimentary ackermann system 😕 What the heck is tht.
I'll take some pics and the specs. Will post back
Ah, please see here:
https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/2312-ce-project-ce-bot-9.html#post13795

Thanks for contributing your mini car! 😀
Rifaa
Rifaa • Feb 23, 2009
ash
Ah, please see here:
https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/2312-ce-project-ce-bot-9.html#post13795

Thanks for contributing your mini car! 😀
I shud have read everything , 😉 still hard to get too much time near the PC.
This steering is quite simple, a nematic piston can be implemented quite easily for the traction and retraction.
Wonder how it would will be like to use all the six wheels like this 😕
bet can't use all, atleast one set had to be controlled separately . right.
for better steering in tight spots. Still am not too good at mechanical side of these things. But I bet I can built it, I do have quite a knowledge on how to built once got the Idea.

Sad to see that the progress is slow, guess time is limited to ppl like us. huh!
Anyways, keep me posted and I'll get the pics tonight or so.
Cheers
Pneumatic steering? I'm not too sure about that.. the response might not be fast and accurate enough for our purposes. But we'll check it out regardless.

Me and xhx are working things out behind the scenes. Working out how to modularize stuff and will finalize the basic components soon.

So, watch out for the updates soon!
Rifaa
Rifaa • Feb 23, 2009
So I guess we have to use power steering technique and coupled with stepper to drive the train.
So I still donno how far this project is at. I mean, for all I know every one is doing something, may be atleast parts of it. Just wondering everyone knows how far this thing has gone.

😒 just wondering.
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Feb 23, 2009
ash
@ tyler
Wishing you the best for your future graphic designing work 😛
Thanks so much! I'm going to try to contribute what I can to this bot. I'm not going to give up.
Rifaa
So I guess we have to use power steering technique and coupled with stepper to drive the train.
So I still donno how far this project is at. I mean, for all I know every one is doing something, may be atleast parts of it. Just wondering everyone knows how far this thing has gone.

😒 just wondering.
Gone from ideas into software conceptual design. Next stage would be planning the flow of the design, then finally the start of the hardware implementation.

@ tyler
Thats the spirit!
gohm
gohm • Feb 25, 2009
speaking of design, will it be purely a basic functional platform or a customized shape? body or no?
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Feb 25, 2009
I'm just happy to see everything moving so swiftly. We're really progressing! Good job guys! Anything I can help with at the moment?
raj87verma88
raj87verma88 • Feb 25, 2009
KINETIC_JOULES
I'm just happy to see everything moving so swiftly. We're really progressing! Good job guys! Anything I can help with at the moment?
hmmm...we are working on the main design. Can you make one with tracked wheels and a differential steering. And make a complete design. Previously we were making conceptual models but the level has increased now.😀 I still believe that will be the best option.
I am thinking of a design similar to Wall-E
gohm
gohm • Feb 28, 2009
So we are back to tracks? I remember some time back a couple of us were in favor of tracks (me included) however i thought collectively it was ruled out?
We decided that tracks are ruled out. Too much power is needed for it (turning friction, speed, etc). I know, I'm stingy when it comes to power consumption, but it is still important, you mechies 😉

We are going for the 6 wheel design as the first prototype.
gohm
gohm • Feb 28, 2009
ok, if tracks are out, how about a hover bot?! =) lol, no problem with the wheels, I thought that was our direction.
A hover bot can be in the pipeline 😉
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Mar 1, 2009
raj87verma88
hmmm...we are working on the main design. Can you make one with tracked wheels and a differential steering. And make a complete design. Previously we were making conceptual models but the level has increased now.😀 I still believe that will be the best option.
I am thinking of a design similar to Wall-E
I'll see what I can do. I have a term paper on Atomic bomb radiation due Wednesday and I haven't even done my rough draft yet. So when I get the time (I've been procrastinating because I found a book I never finished and I only had a little over 100 pages left, so I started reading the rest of it.) I'll work on it. Okay?
durga ch
durga ch • Mar 1, 2009
the other day I passed across a graphics tablet from bamboo. i somehow felt the features were good. Are you guys still looking for one?i can chip in few $ to get it in that case
Ashraf HZ
Ashraf HZ • Mar 2, 2009
Lol, good luck with the term paper tyler. Try to watch some documentaries too, especially on the aftermath of Hiroshima and the Chernobyl accident. They should be available at youtube or something.

durga
the other day I passed across a graphics tablet from bamboo. i somehow felt the features were good. Are you guys still looking for one?i can chip in few $ to get it in that case
Oh, nice. Which model is it? And how much?
gohm
gohm • Mar 2, 2009
History International channel just aired a show last night about Chernobyl. Also rent China Syndrome- great film! I know these are power plant issues and not bombs however they do deal with radiation.
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Mar 9, 2009
Term paper finished as of yesterday!
raj87verma88
raj87verma88 • Mar 14, 2009
We are moving towards starting the fabrication of the bot. I have asked a friend to lend me a room for a few months. Will search for a workshop and then move towards getting tools and raw materials i.e. chips, wires motors etc. for the bot.
I will update after I meet xhx

@KJ: I hope it went well.
Thats great news from both of you 😀 Good luck with finding a workshop patty.

I'll be having my final exams soon, till mid April. So busy times for me 😔
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Mar 14, 2009
Ash, the idea with Docel was good. But he seems to be busy with his club and other things. We will have the meet in Delhi and talk about the bot construction and functionality.

Ash, but I need your 6 wheel design to be explained will. I am concerned about the "rigidity" of the bot. Example, if the front wheel gets on a stone, the right center wheel will rise too if the bot is too rigid. To avoid these problems we will need a mechanism to "have all the wheels touch the ground for most of the time, like the rocker-bogie does". Spring suspention? Small air hydrolics? Or have huge wheels? or have just 4 huge wheels? Give us something now to discuss at the meet. It will be helpful 😀

(Sorry I have been away for sometime, I had been medically busy! 😀 )
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Mar 14, 2009
raj87verma88
@KJ: I hope it went well.
Thanks! I do too! I don't know what I got on it yet.
xheavenlyx
I am concerned about the "rigidity" of the bot. Example, if the front wheel gets on a stone, the right center wheel will rise too if the bot is too rigid. To avoid these problems we will need a mechanism to "have all the wheels touch the ground for most of the time, like the rocker-bogie does". Spring suspention? Small air hydrolics? Or have huge wheels? or have just 4 huge wheels? Give us something now to discuss at the meet. It will be helpful 😀
We will try using a spring suspension, its the easiest to implement. However, if we are coupling the DC motors with the wheel with a rigid shaft (instead of a universal joint), we'll put suspensions for the motors too.

I had an old idea about segmenting the body into three, but its a bit complicated so we can follow on it on future designs.

If you guys insist on the 4 wheel design, go ahead and make one. I feel a 6 wheel design is practical, thats why I propose it. Please dont be afraid to use Google SketchUp and post a concept design.

By the way, we could probably finalize the documentation after the meet, yeah?
KINETIC_JOULES
KINETIC_JOULES • Mar 16, 2009
I'm stuck. . . I've missed a lot.
Ashraf HZ
Ashraf HZ • Apr 8, 2009
Alrighty folks! We have now moved on to Part 4 of the CE Bot thread!

https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/19674-ce-project-ce-bot-part-four.html

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