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The Lady, The Shopkeeper And A Fake Note - Find the Loss

Question asked by Ankita Katdare in #Coffee Room on Oct 4, 2013
Ankita Katdare
Ankita Katdare · Oct 4, 2013
Rank A1 - PRO
A friend asked me this question, the other day -

A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
The lady gives him Rs. 1000 note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps Rs. 200 for himself and returns Rs. 800 to the lady.
Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the Rs. 1000 note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.
How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face?

The answers that people came up with were - Rs. 1000, Rs. 2000, Rs. 1800, Rs. 1200 and Rs. 800

If you are going to reply with an answer, please provide a detailed solution. Posted in: #Coffee Room
Saandeep Sreerambatla
Rank A2 - PRO
The loss is 1000.

Since he sold 200rupees of goods and got original 200 from other shop keeper so there is no loss.

Next comes he gave 800 away to the lady who deserves.

But when the note is fake, he has to give back 1000. so I think answer is 1000.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare · Oct 4, 2013
Rank A1 - PRO
Most people believe that the answer is Rs. 1200. If you consider giving out an item worth Rs. 200 results into loss of Rs. 400 [you bought the item for Rs. 200; assuming that the selling price is equal to buying price].

My answer would be Rs. 1000 too.
Anoop Kumar
Anoop Kumar · Oct 4, 2013
Rank A2 - PRO
Capture
Am I right here!!
Alok mishra
Alok mishra · Oct 4, 2013
Rank C3 - EXPERT
If initially shopkeeper had 2000 in his pocket then after selling the product he would be having 2200 in his pocket ,when other shopkeeper got to know that the 1000 rs note was fake ,first shopkeeper had to return him 1000 ,now all that first shopkeeper got is 1200 rs. so, 2200-12000=1000 rs.
Ankita Katdare
Ankita Katdare · Oct 4, 2013
Rank A1 - PRO
A lot of people have confirmed the answer to be Rs. 1200.
Because the cost of item sold is considered separately.
Anoop Kumar
Anoop Kumar · Oct 4, 2013
Rank A2 - PRO
Ankita Katdare
Because the cost of item sold is considered separately.
I am considering sold Item value also . The table I given is clearly showing this.
I know explaining this orally is difficult that's why I calculated on totally math based.
Sarathkumar Chandrasekaran
Rank A2 - PRO
Mine :1200
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare · Oct 5, 2013
Rank A1 - PRO
@ianoop - I read your chart and I think it still considers that if the shopkeeper 1 has given the item worth Rs. 200 to the lady, his loss is still Rs. 200. Now if you consider that the buying price = selling price; the shopkeeper 1 himself paid Rs. 200 from his pockets to stock that item in his shop. By not getting Rs. 200 after give it to the lady, his total loss is [ Rs. 200 (value of the item) + Rs. 200 (he paid from his pocket for stocking the item) ] = Rs. 400. In that case, the overall loss of the shopkeeper 1 would be Rs. 1200.

However, like you showed in the chart; if we do not consider the transaction that happened before the lady entered the shop; the total loss is equal to Rs. 1000; as your table points.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare · Oct 5, 2013
Rank A1 - PRO
SarathKumar Chandrasekaran
Mine :1200
Write an explanation please 😀
Anoop Kumar
Anoop Kumar · Oct 5, 2013
Rank A2 - PRO
In 1st transaction I am showing that lady gave 0 bucks to shopkeeper1 (As note is fake). and shopkeeper given the goods that is why in 1st transaction-
Lady is +200, shopkeeper1 is with fake note (0 bucks) and -200 (value of goods).
Here, the main confusion is goods, if we replace goods by a 200 bucks note then the whole thing will be clear.

Lady exchanged her fake note: so lady got +1000
Shopkeeper2 is in no loss no profit : +-0
To equalize this shopkeeper1 must go into loss of total : -1000.
Sarathkumar Chandrasekaran
Rank A2 - PRO
Kaustubh Katdare
Write an explanation please 😀
total loss-200(product price)+1000(given to neighbor shopkeeper)=1200.
Anil Jain
Anil Jain · Oct 6, 2013
Rank A2 - PRO
I agree with those who says that loss is 1000/-

Ankita Katdare
A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
The lady gives him Rs. 1000 note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps Rs. 200 for himself and returns Rs. 800 to the lady.
actual intake -- 1000 /- (lady had given fake currency and next shop has given 1000 in change)
Spend -- 1000/- lady (800/ - 200 goods), 1000/ - next shop

Total loss - intake - spend

= 1000/-

-CB
zaveri
zaveri · Oct 6, 2013
Rank A3 - PRO
so what is the final answer ?
Ankita Katdare
Ankita Katdare · Oct 6, 2013
Rank A1 - PRO
Unfortunately we don't have a final answer. Those who say the answer is 1000 or 1200, I fear, are making some unknown assumptions.

Correct me if I am wrong.
rahul69
rahul69 · Oct 6, 2013
Rank B2 - LEADER
Ankita Katdare
A friend asked me this question, the other day -

A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
The lady gives him Rs. 1000 note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps Rs. 200 for himself and returns Rs. 800 to the lady.
Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the Rs. 1000 note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.
How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face?

The answers that people came up with were - Rs. 1000, Rs. 2000, Rs. 1800, Rs. 1200 and Rs. 800

If you are going to reply with an answer, please provide a detailed solution.
This question is bit twisted, so that's why some people are confused,
So lets modify the question to make it simple:
  • Shopkeeper of next shop gave Rs 1000 and then took back Rs 1000, so we can safely assume that he did nothing.
  • Lady gave a fake note which has zero value, so we can assume that lady gave nothing.
So the new question statement becomes:
"A Lady buys goods worth Rs 200 and shopkeeper returns Rs 800"
So clearly the shopkeeper gave Lady 200 (goods) + 800 (cash)
And hence the answer is 1000.
Hope it clears all the doubts 😀
zaveri
zaveri · Oct 6, 2013
Rank A3 - PRO
The answer is 1000
nishank_eureka
nishank_eureka · Jan 2, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Hi Everyone,
I am giving the answers with proper assumptions.
First Answer - 1200
Assumption Made
- Shopkeeper returned 200 rs to the other shopkeeper.
Explanation-
200 rs worth goods + 800 rs returned to lady (Real currency taken from another shopkeeper) + 200 rs returned to the first shopkeeper( assumption) = 1200 rs loss.

Second Answer - 1000
Assumption made
- Shopkeeper did not return 200 rs to the other shopkeeper.
Explanation -
200 rs worth goods + 800 rs returned to lady (Real currency taken from another shopkeeper) = 1000 rs.

Third Answer - 800
Assumption made-
Shopkeeper's goods are insured in case of any theft or fraud 😁 and he did not return the money to the other shopkeeper
Explanation -
800 rs returned to lady (Real currency taken from another shopkeeper)= 800

I hope the above answers with proper assumptions will help.
asadhlc
asadhlc · Jan 13, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Loss is Rs 1800.

Lets analyse the transaction from the instance the shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop !!!!!

Rs. 1000/- worth of change (genuine money) he brings and from that .....

Rs. 200/-.. shopkeeper keeps and it is his inflow of cash (A)
Rs. 800/-.. the Lady takes as change and is shopkeeper's outflow of cash (B)

Now comes the next door shop keeper and takes his genuine money back
Here Rs. 1000/- is shopkeeper's again outflow of cash (C)

So the net loss or outflow of cash is (B)+(C) which will be 800+1000 = 1800/-

Cheers
Asad 😀
durga ch
durga ch · Jan 13, 2014
Rank A2 - PRO
1800 rs

-for 0 rupees he received from lady the shop keeper paid her 800rs
-he had to pay back the other shop keeper 1000rs
-cost of item is 200rs negates the 200rs he kept for himself
asadhlc
asadhlc · Jan 13, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
durga
1800 rs

-for 0 rupees he received from lady the shop keeper paid her 800rs
-he had to pay back the other shop keeper 1000rs
-cost of item is 200rs negates the 200rs he kept for himself
Very good moderator ..... you are closing in !!!
micheal john
micheal john · Jan 13, 2014
Rank B3 - LEADER
1) shopkeeper gave the lady 200rs worth product
2) next shopkeeper has to return 1000rs to the second shopkeeper
3)200+1000 = 1200

ans: 1200

P.S the confusing factor here is the change the shopkeeper gave to the lady, the money the shopkeeper return back to the 2nd shopkeeper
ISHAN TOPRE
ISHAN TOPRE · Jan 13, 2014
Rank A2 - PRO
Ankita Katdare
A lot of people have confirmed the answer to be Rs. 1200.
Because the cost of item sold is considered separately.
The answer is INR 1000 only.

Lady gives 1000 rs fake note. Receives goods rs 1000 (200 product+800 rs cash).

Shopkeeper: Gives 1000 rs fake note to other shop keeper and receives 1000 real cash.

He gives 200 product and 800 rs. Keeps 200 rs with himself.
Then he returns 1000 rs to other shopkeeper.
micheal john
micheal john · Jan 13, 2014
Rank B3 - LEADER
Lady profits 1000RS, so lose for shopkeeper is 1000RS great👍
asadhlc
asadhlc · Jan 14, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Issue
The answer is INR 1000 only.

Lady gives 1000 rs fake note. Receives goods rs 1000 (200 product+800 rs cash).

Shopkeeper: Gives 1000 rs fake note to other shop keeper and receives 1000 real cash.

He gives 200 product and 800 rs. Keeps 200 rs with himself.
Then he returns 1000 rs to other shopkeeper.
The point what you are missing here is you are not considering the 800 outflow to the lady as loss.

Technically the lady gave zero money and took product worth 200 and change worth 800.

INR 200 as you agreed, shop keeper keeps for himself.

The neighbor shopkeeper returns fake note (value of which is zero) and takes genuine 1000 cash

So the net loss is 800 + 1000 = 1800
asadhlc
asadhlc · Jan 14, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
micheal john
Lady profits 1000RS, so lose for shopkeeper is 1000RS great👍
From lady's point of view the loss is 1000
But from shopkeeper's point of view the loss is 1800
asadhlc
asadhlc · Jan 14, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
micheal john
1) shopkeeper gave the lady 200rs worth product
2) next shopkeeper has to return 1000rs to the second shopkeeper
3)200+1000 = 1200

ans: 1200

P.S the confusing factor here is the change the shopkeeper gave to the lady, the money the shopkeeper return back to the 2nd shopkeeper
Think in terms of inflow and outflow of genuine money and fake money
You will get the answer

Genuine cash outflow is 800 as change and 1000 returned to neighbor shopkeeper
200 in his pocket negates the value of goods

So total loss for him will be 1800
asadhlc
asadhlc · Jan 14, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Anoop Kumar
Capture
Am I right here!!
When the shopkeeper gets change from the neighbor shopkeeper worth 1000 he gives 800 to lady (genuine change) and 200 he pockets. This 200 what he pockets is missing in your table.

So when neighbor shopkeeper returns fake note and takes real note that means the shopkeeper is facing a fresh loss of 1000 (genuine money)

So 800 change and 1000 fresh loss = 1800 loss
ISHAN TOPRE
ISHAN TOPRE · Jan 14, 2014
Rank A2 - PRO
asadhlc
The point what you are missing here is you are not considering the 800 outflow to the lady as loss.

Technically the lady gave zero money and took product worth 200 and change worth 800.

INR 200 as you agreed, shop keeper keeps for himself.

The neighbor shopkeeper returns fake note (value of which is zero) and takes genuine 1000 cash

So the net loss is 800 + 1000 = 1800
The shopkeeper 1 took 1000 rs (+1000)from shopkeeper 2 and returned it after sometime(-1000). Hence the transaction between them should not be considered.
madhu27
madhu27 · Jan 17, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
My answer would be 1000.

The duplicate money is Rs.1000. Getting the duplicate one, the shopkeeper has given a Rs.200 worth product and a change of Rs.800. The money got from the next shopkeeper has been returned. So, it need not to be considered. Now, the total loss would be Rs.200+Rs.800=Rs.1000.
Ankita Katdare
Ankita Katdare · Jan 17, 2014
Rank A1 - PRO
All mixed answers. No one knows the correct solution it seems.
micheal john
micheal john · Jan 17, 2014
Rank B3 - LEADER
Ankita Katdare
All mixed answers. No one knows the correct solution it seems.
what is the right answer😕
Ramani Aswath
Ramani Aswath · Jan 18, 2014
Rank A1 - PRO
The lady went away with a total of Rs.1000. The shopkeeper gave back RS.1000 for the bad note. Net loss to shopkeeper is Rs.1800 cash and Rs.200 goods.
Anand Tamariya
Anand Tamariya · Jan 19, 2014
Rank B2 - LEADER
Ankita Katdare
All mixed answers. No one knows the correct solution it seems.
Many people have come up with correct answer - you need to be able to see it logically.
Shyam_puzzle
Shyam_puzzle · Jan 20, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
Ans = 1000. Two ways to solve it - A and B.

A. Keeping the two transactions separate makes for easy solution -
  • With lady, inflow is fake note, outflow is goods worth 200 n 800 cash, so net outflow is 1000, hence loss is 1000.
  • With the other keeper, two deals happen -
    • first inflow is real 1000, outflow fake note.
    • second inflow is fake note, outflow real 1000.
    • therefore, net transaction is 0. so no profit, no loss there.
Hence, you see the only loss happened with the lady, which amounts to 1000.

B. If u insist on taking transactions as it happened then here it goes -
  1. inflow from lady, fake note.
  2. Went to other keeper, inflow is real 1000, outflow fake note.
  3. Came back to shop, gave lady goods worth 200 n real 800. So outflow in cash value so far is 1000 n inflow is 200 which is still left.
  4. Other keeper comes back, inflow is fake note, outflow real 1000. To give this 1000, first keeper uses 200 that was left (from above point) n HAS TO ADD 800 OF HIS OWN MONEY. so net outflow is 800.
As you can see, in the entire transactions, the first keeper NEVER USES HIS OWN MONEY UNTIL he has to give back 1000 to other keeper, that is when HE GIVES 800 OF HIS OWN MONEY n 200 which was left with him.

So, the first keeper's loss is goods worth 200 plus 800 given to other keeper, total of 1000. Remember that the 800 given to the lady was not his own money, it was the other keepers money! (IN THIS TRANSACTION CASE).

Therefore, net loss is 1000.

Hope I could get my points across. Think it over, even play act it if u want to 😀
Vikram S Bargah
Vikram S Bargah · Jan 20, 2014
Rank B2 - LEADER
the total loss to the shop keeper is Rs 1800/-

1. 800/- returned to the lady.
2. 1000/- returned to the second shopkeeper against fake note.
Anoop Kumar
Anoop Kumar · Jan 20, 2014
Rank A2 - PRO
People are getting confused, 😴
I recommend to re-create this situation live with your friend and see what it actual loss.

TIP: Shopkeeper 1 only took out 800/- from his money-box☕
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare · Jan 20, 2014
Rank A1 - PRO
I think I've posted the simplest possible explanation of the problem.
Shyam_puzzle
Shyam_puzzle · Jan 20, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
Anoop Kumar, your mathematical explanation is excellent and I guess all of us should be comfortable with that 😀

What people fail to take into account is the 1000 Rs. inflow that first keeper gets while his outflow is 800 to lady n 1000 to keeper.

Net inflow = 1000.
Net outflow = 1800.
Cash loss = 800. (A)
Goods worth = 200. (B)
Total loss = A+B = 1000.

Kaustubh, you spoke about goods actual loss being 400 regarding goods; that is called as opportunity loss, the keeper losing the chance to sell the good to somebody else. BUT in this case, sale price is same as cost price so there is no opportunity loss. Anyway I know, you agree with 1000 😀
Anand Tamariya
Anand Tamariya · Jan 20, 2014
Rank B2 - LEADER
People commit two possible logical fallacies:
- Money has intrinsic value (it must represent the value of goods)
- Money is ONLY a medium of exchange
Play the same scenario with stones representing fake currency and gold coins representing actual currency. Then see what the second shopkeeper loses at the end of the day.
Ramani Aswath
Ramani Aswath · Jan 20, 2014
Rank A1 - PRO
Issue
The answer is INR 1000 only.
Lady gives 1000 rs fake note. Receives goods rs 1000 (200 product+800 rs cash).
Shopkeeper: Gives 1000 rs fake note to other shop keeper and receives 1000 real cash. He gives 200 product and 800 rs. Keeps 200 rs with himself.
Then he returns 1000 rs to other shopkeeper.
You are right. Poor thinking on my part. Net result is that the first shop keeper got a bad note and gave away Rs.200 in goods and Rs.800 in cash. The rest is irrelevant.
Sindhu Chowdary
Sindhu Chowdary · Jan 20, 2014
Rank C2 - EXPERT
I think ans is 1000 rs. The transaction between the two shopkeepers can be neglected. (because the shopkeeper gave a fake and taken the real cash and the same is performed in opposite way.So they are cancelled ).
So he lost 200 rs of goods and 800 rs cash making a total of 1000 rs.
msn krishna
msn krishna · Jan 21, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
ans; 1800
because, lady gave fake note that means she gave nothing

shopkeeper (1); took 1000 from shopkeeper (2). by giving fake note (zero)

shopkeeper (1) gave product worth 200 + 800 change (for fake 1000 note). so now in his hand 200

lady got 200+800=1000 (for a fake note)

later shopkeeper(2) came and asked 1000 back.

then shopkeeper (1) gave 200 (in his hand ) + 800 from his own money.

so that finally got loss 1800 ( 200 product + 800 change to lady + 800 to shopkeeper (2) from his own money)

as shopkeeper (1) gave 1000 but 200 in his hand is product fair .

and finally it correct answer (no doubt at all )

ur"s> MSN KRISHNA
guptas.sneha
guptas.sneha · Jan 23, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
the shopkeeper lost Rs 2000.
200 of the goods he sold
1000 he will have to return to the next shopkeeper
and 800 which he returned to the lady
that is how the total comes to Rs 2000
Mrinmoy Swarnakar
Mrinmoy Swarnakar · Jan 24, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
The answer to this is 1800 as he lost 1000rs because the note was fake and so 800rs paid to the woman. He had 200rs with him after giving the goods...
Uday Teja
Uday Teja · Jan 24, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
The shopkeeper lost 2000 rupees.......This can be cleared by three points....Firstly there is no need of thinking abt the secnd shopkeeper who gave change and took back his money from the main shopkeeper.... Now cmng to the points
Point 1: The goods that were given to the lady worth 200 ....
Point 2: The remaining amount given to the lady(assuming the fake note to be real one) ie., 800rs.and
Point 3: The fake note which remained with the shopkeeper....He cant add it to his account....
So 200+800+1000 makes a total of 2000rs loss to him......
Sunil Singh
Sunil Singh · Jan 24, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
Loss is Rs 1800
Loss on sale of goods as the note was duplicate =Rs 200
After getting real 1000 change from other shopkeeper, he returns Rs 800 to the lady.
which is loss of Rs 800 but he has real Rs 200 by the time he gets to know the note is duplicate.
Thus profit of Rs 200 but as soon as he gets to knw from the other shopkeeper he has to pay him Rs 1000
Thus total loss
= 200+800-200(Real money that he was left with)+1000
Thus,Total Loss = Rs.1800
Anoop Kumar
Anoop Kumar · Jan 24, 2014
Rank A2 - PRO
@msn krishna , @guptas.sneha , @mrin!! , @Uday Teja , @Onil
Did you guys tried solving this problem in real scenario using actual objects (let say real money). Do try it.
Shyam_puzzle
Shyam_puzzle · Jan 24, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
@msn krishna , @guptas.sneha , @mrin!! , @Uday Teja , @Onil

A lot of people are making the mistake of not considering REAL 1000 that the first keeper got from the second keeper. He only uses 800 OF HIS OWN MONEY, so cash loss is only 800 n 200 loss of goods, so total is 1000.

Another way of looking at this is to consider inflow n outflow of each of the person involved in the case -
  • total inflow is fake note from lady, real 1000 from other keeper.
  • total outflow is goods worth 200 plus 800 cash to lady, 1000 cash to other keeper.
  • Loss is inflow - outflow i.e. 1000 - (200+800+1000) = 1000.
As Anoop Kumar says, play act the events out. For instance, if I give you real 1000 in exchange of fake note n later return fake note and take back real 1000, do you make any loss??
Sindhu Chowdary
Sindhu Chowdary · Jan 24, 2014
Rank C2 - EXPERT
My answer is 2000rs.

1.Shopkeeper lost 1000rs because of fake note.
2.He lost 200rs because of flow of goods.
3.He lost another 800rs.(by giving a change of 800 for fake 1000).

So I think he lost 2000rs in total.
Dhananjay Harkare
Dhananjay Harkare · Jan 24, 2014
Rank C1 - EXPERT
I agree with loss to be Rs.1000

But another way would be-

shopkeeper gave Rs.800 to lady, she leaves.
Then the other shopkeeper comes(from whom change was borrowed) gives fake Rs.1000 note and his money back.
So, 1st shopkeeper gave Rs.800 to lady and Rs.1000 to other shopkeeper so loss is Rs.1800..!?
Sindhu Chowdary
Sindhu Chowdary · Jan 24, 2014
Rank C2 - EXPERT
Dhananjay Harkare
I agree with loss to be Rs.1000

But another way would be-

shopkeeper gave Rs.800 to lady, she leaves.
Then the other shopkeeper comes(from whom change was borrowed) gives fake Rs.1000 note and his money back.
So, 1st shopkeeper gave Rs.800 to lady and Rs.1000 to other shopkeeper so loss is Rs.1800..!?
Then what about the goods worth of 200rs that shopkeeper sold to the lady?It should also be considered as loss,isn't it?
Mrinmoy Swarnakar
Mrinmoy Swarnakar · Jan 24, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
@Shyam_puzzle
The first keeper keeps the 200rs with him. That is why he had a loss of 1800rs since the cost of goods he sold was saved with him.
Mrinmoy Swarnakar
Mrinmoy Swarnakar · Jan 24, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
@Sindhu Chowdary
yes the cost of goods is loss, but 200rs saved by him makes it neutral.
Sindhu Chowdary
Sindhu Chowdary · Jan 24, 2014
Rank C2 - EXPERT
@mrin!! 1.The cost of goods and 200rs saved by him makes it neutral.But actually he bought those goods somewhere else,isn't it?That 200rs will also be considered as loss,isn't it?
Shyam_puzzle
Shyam_puzzle · Jan 25, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
@mrin!!
"The first keeper keeps the 200rs with him. That is why he had a loss of 1800rs since the cost of goods he sold was saved with him.[/quote]"

I agree with that. All I am saying is please also consider real 1000 that first keeper got from the 2nd one. The transactions between the two keepers cancels each other out. There is an exchange of real 1000 for fake note n vice-versa. So there is no loss or profit for either of them.

@Sindhu Chowdary

Your first point that (1.Shopkeeper lost 1000rs because of fake note.) is erroneous because you fail to consider that first shopkeeper initially got real 1000. He just returns this 1000 back to 2nd keeper.

"The puzzle is confusing because the two transactions (with lady n with other keeper) are mixed. To solve it separate the two."

For better understanding consider this scenario, after the first keeper gets real 1000 from 2nd keeper, the lady suddenly decides not to buy anything n asks for her money. The keeper then gives her real 1000 (as the fake note is with 2nd keeper). Later, 2nd keeper comes in n gives fake note back n demands real 1000. What do u think the loss is in this case??
Anand Tamariya
Anand Tamariya · Jan 25, 2014
Rank B2 - LEADER
Shyam_puzzle
For instance, if I give you real 1000 in exchange of fake note n later return fake note and take back real 1000, do you make any loss??
That's a superficial mathematical analysis. In real world, where money represents goods, the combined transaction implies that the good is consumed. And hence, it can't be neglected.
Shyam_puzzle
Shyam_puzzle · Jan 25, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
@Anand Tamariya

How is my example superficial? It is exactly as it happened in the puzzle, the two keepers exchanging real notes for the fake one. I suggested the example just to drive home the point that the first keeper does not incur loss when transacting with the second keeper.

Certainly money represents value and I have not neglected it any of my explanations.
Mrinmoy Swarnakar
Mrinmoy Swarnakar · Jan 25, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
@Sindhu Chowdary @Shyam_puzzle
Ok
So at the end first keeper returns 1000rs of second keeper and is having 200rs which is the cost of goods he sold. So the only extra thing he is having is the 1000rs fake note making loss=1000rs.
Mrinmoy Swarnakar
Mrinmoy Swarnakar · Jan 25, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
@Anoop Kumar
Real money is not something to play with at my stage, as I am a student.
But yes with my roommates we tried this scenario using imaginary money.
Ramani Aswath
Ramani Aswath · Jan 25, 2014
Rank A1 - PRO
@Issue was right.
The second shopkeeper can be safely ignored. He got his money back that he gave the first. No loss/gain in that. All that happened is that the lady gave the first SK a fake 1K and got back Rs.800 cash and Rs.200 goods.
The first fellow is holding on to the fake note.
Anoop Kumar
Anoop Kumar · Jan 25, 2014
Rank A2 - PRO
I don't know how much simpler explanation would be than this.

Saandeep Sreerambatla
The loss is 1000.

Since he sold 200rupees of goods and got original 200 from other shop keeper so there is no loss.

Next comes he gave 800 away to the lady who deserves.

But when the note is fake, he has to give back 1000. so I think answer is 1000.
Anoop Kumar
Capture
Am I right here!!
Other than, go to actual local merchant
Anand Tamariya
Anand Tamariya · Jan 26, 2014
Rank B2 - LEADER
Shyam_puzzle
@Anand Tamariya

How is my example superficial? It is exactly as it happened in the puzzle, the two keepers exchanging real notes for the fake one. I suggested the example just to drive home the point that the first keeper does not incur loss when transacting with the second keeper.

Certainly money represents value and I have not neglected it any of my explanations.
As I said earlier, try the example with stones representing fake currency and gold coins representing actual currency. Then you'll notice what you are neglecting.
Shyam_puzzle
Shyam_puzzle · Jan 26, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
@Anand Tamariya

Well, I have been advocating play acting the whole scenario as well for better understanding.

I have been very specific in my answer (1000) and hope my explanations were good enough. You have neither given out your answer nor pointed out what I have been neglecting. Please clarify.
Anand Tamariya
Anand Tamariya · Jan 26, 2014
Rank B2 - LEADER
Shyam_puzzle
@Anand Tamariya

Well, I have been advocating play acting the whole scenario as well for better understanding.

I have been very specific in my answer (1000) and hope my explanations were good enough. You have neither given out your answer nor pointed out what I have been neglecting. Please clarify.
Assuming I'm the shopkeeper. The lady gave me 1k stones. I got 1k gold coins from other shopkeeper in exchange of 1k stones. I gave lady the bread and 800 gold coins. Now I'm left with 200 gold coins.
If other shopkeeper demands 1k gold coins now. I'll have to add 800 of my own gold coins to repay him. So isn't my loss 800+200+800+ bread worth of gold coins? However, if you note, now I'm left with 1k stones (which is the answer you arrived at).
ShSK
ShSK · Jan 27, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Considering the the cost of item its 1200(1000+200(C.P of Item)) or else 1000 as thats the only monetary loss to shopkeeper.
Anoop Kumar
Anoop Kumar · Jan 27, 2014
Rank A2 - PRO
You should also include cost of item.
Ankita Katdare
A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
Shyam_puzzle
Shyam_puzzle · Jan 27, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
@Anand Tamariya

"If other shopkeeper demands 1k gold coins now. I'll have to add 800 of my own gold coins to repay him. So isn't my loss 800+200+800+ bread worth of gold coins? However, if you note, now I'm left with 1k stones (which is the answer you arrived at).[/quote]"

As you can see Anand, you only had to put 800 gold coins of your own, hence your loss is 800 + bread which is worth 200 gold coins, thus total loss being 1000 gold coins. Of course you are going to be left with 1k stones which is fake note in this puzzle.
asadhlc
asadhlc · Jan 28, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Previously I replied 1800!!!!

But after this computation I agree its 800 cash loss and 200 worth of Goods loss for Shopkeeper. (SK1)

Red in the table indicates fake note, Blue indicates Real money

Adding / removing balance 5000 just for cash flow movement
sk
Subhanshi
Subhanshi · Jan 29, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Answer is 2000 Rs.,as, shopkeeper 1 has given lady 800+200(worth of goods) and 1000 to shop keeper 2,
Shyam_puzzle
Shyam_puzzle · Jan 29, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
Yes Asad, you are right. Excepting of course that 200 denominations do not exist ;-)

What you (and a lot of us) missed previously was the 1000 (in blue) inflow that shopkeeper1 gets from shopkeeper.

@Subhanshi
You miss that shopkeeper 1 ALSO RECEIVED 1000 from shopkeeper 2. Hence his loss is 1000 only.
Aditya Dev
Aditya Dev · Mar 11, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
The shop keeper sold the product at 200 rs to the lady. The lady had given 1000 rs to the soapkeeper.Then the soapkeeper brought 1000 rs change frm the nearest soap and kept 200 rs with himself and 800 rs to the lady. after sometime he can to know that the money he had got is duplicate and he paid the 1000 rupees to the nearest soap keeper.
let see care fully
Now the soap keeper have 200 rs
he add 800 rupees more to the 200 rs and give the soap keeper.
so the total loss is 1000 rupees.
r u got this one.
Govind Sharma
Govind Sharma · Apr 21, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
A lady buys goods of Rs.200 from a shop.
(shopkeeper selling the goods with zero profit) lady gives 1000rs note. shopkeeper gets change from next shop & keeps 200 for him and returns Rs.800 to lady. shopkeeper of next shop comes with 1000rs note saying duplicate & takes his money back. How much LOSS did shopkeeper face
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare · Apr 21, 2014
Rank A1 - PRO
@Govind Sharma - Welcome to CE. I've moved your thread into an existing discussion. You may refer to all the discussions above to find solutions offered by CEans.
Govind Sharma
Govind Sharma · Apr 22, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Kaustubh Sir,
I calculated and got the result as 1000 but still need clarification. Please provide
mel-jones
mel-jones · Jun 2, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Anwser is 1000 (I own a shop and attend cash tills).

Explanation 1 (cash counter perspective) - End of the day all u have to see is the fake note sitting at the counter is invalid and that 1000 rs fake note is the loss since the good is sold with no profit.

Explanation 2 - (who lost and who gained) For those with any other answer pls try and think this way. If the shop keeper lost 1200 or 1800 or 2000 or any amount then the involving partys should have gained that same amount. The customer gave in 0(1000fake note) and got back 200 goods and 800 change so he gained 1000, the neighbor gave in 1000 real not for a fake note and again gave his fake note and got back his 1000 , so neighbor gained 0. so the gain for opposing partys are 1000.

Explanation 3 - (Accounts perspective) - Profit and loss is calculated on the basis of what u had and what u have , its called opening and closing balance.If the customer started with 1000 cash and 200 stock as opening balance at end of the day he would have 200 cash and 0 stock has closing balance .
"If" Opening balance is - 1000 cash and 200 stock. Then closing balance would be 200 cash and 0 stock si he had 1200 opening and just 200 closing, 1200-200 = 1000.

Hope this settles it 😀
ShSK
ShSK · Jun 4, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Bravo!!! 👍
Gurwinder Singh
Gurwinder Singh · Jun 7, 2014
Rank C3 - EXPERT
SarathKumar Chandrasekaran
total loss-200(product price)+1000(given to neighbor shopkeeper)=1200.
He gave 1000 rs to neighbor which he taken from him. But he gave 200(product price) + 800 (Cash) to lady so total lose is rs 1000
Gurwinder Singh
Gurwinder Singh · Jun 7, 2014
Rank C3 - EXPERT
durga
1800 rs

-for 0 rupees he received from lady the shop keeper paid her 800rs
-he had to pay back the other shop keeper 1000rs
-cost of item is 200rs negates the 200rs he kept for himself
which 1000 rupees he paid to other shop keeper that 1000rs he taken from that shoo keeper only. So he taken 1000 pay back 1000= 0
Other side gave 200(goods) +800 ( Cash) so total loss is 1000
venkataramanan babu
venkataramanan babu · Jun 8, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
1. shop keeper gave 200 worth things = 200 spent
2. then he got 1000 from next shop and gave = 800 change to the guy=800 spent (So far he has spent 200 things plus 800 change, so 1000)
3. of the thousand he got from next shop 200 balance is still with shop keeper as he gave only 800 change to the guy!
4. now next shop guy comes and takes back from the shop keeper=800 (own money) + 200 balance of the money he had

So the loss is 200(things)+800(change)+800(extra he paid) which is 1800!
Gurwinder Singh
Gurwinder Singh · Jun 8, 2014
Rank C3 - EXPERT
venkataramanan babu
1. shop keeper gave 200 worth things = 200 spent
2. then he got 1000 from next shop and gave = 800 change to the guy=800 spent (So far he has spent 200 things plus 800 change, so 1000)
3. of the thousand he got from next shop 200 balance is still with shop keeper as he gave only 800 change to the guy!
4. now next shop guy comes and takes back from the shop keeper=800 (own money) + 200 balance of the money he had

So the loss is 200(things)+800(change)+800(extra he paid) which is 1800!
OK forget about the change he taken from other shop keeper. Suppose he taken 1000rs from other shop keeper and return back when he came to him. Now come to other side lady gave him 1000( duplicate) he gave goods ( 200rs) and balance 800 (cash) total 200+800= 1000 so he loss 1000rs only
Gurwinder Singh
Gurwinder Singh · Jun 8, 2014
Rank C3 - EXPERT
venkataramanan babu
1. shop keeper gave 200 worth things = 200 spent
2. then he got 1000 from next shop and gave = 800 change to the guy=800 spent (So far he has spent 200 things plus 800 change, so 1000)
3. of the thousand he got from next shop 200 balance is still with shop keeper as he gave only 800 change to the guy!
4. now next shop guy comes and takes back from the shop keeper=800 (own money) + 200 balance of the money he had

So the loss is 200(things)+800(change)+800(extra he paid) which is 1800!
OK only lady got profit 1000rs(200rs goods+ 800) and same 1000rs loss by shop keeper . After that nobody have any profit and nobody have loss. Other shop keeper give 1000rs change and kept duplicate note with him when he found its duplicate he came to shops keeper. He gave duplicate note to shopkeeper and get his 1000 back. So now other shopkeeper have his 1000 which he gave. Now he is in no profit no loss. Now the duplicate note with the main shopkeeper and he gave 200rs goods + 800 cash to lady so he loss only 1000
srk910
srk910 · Jun 18, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Hi everyone!
Here is my perspective.

Lets assume that the sk1 initially has 5000 in his shop and a single good worth rs.200. So net worth of sk1 is 5200.

Now a lady comes and purchases that single good worth Rs.200 and pays him with fake currency. The sk1 gives it to next sk2 (bcoz all the 5000 he has is Rs.1000 X 5 denominations) and gets Rs.1000. He gives the change of Rs.800 to the lady and the good and keeps 200 with him. Which means now the good had been replaced with money Rs.200. now the net worth of sk1 is 5200. No profit/loss situation.

Later sk2 comes and claims his money back as he found that was a fake currency. So now the sk1's account (networth) becomes 4200. So the net loss is Rs.1000

i.e., 5200 - 4200 = 1000.

One more perspective is that if we assume cash and goods are different then the value is 5000 cash plus one good worth rs.200. SO net loss is 800 without including the goods loss.
Prabhat@
Prabhat@ · Jun 19, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
The loss faced by the shopkeeper is 2000..... 😘
Prasanna Papalkar
Prasanna Papalkar · Jul 3, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
The Answer is Rs 2000/-
The Shopkeeper has given Rs 200/- worth goods to lady. So Loss Rs 200
then Rs 1000 is given to another Shopkeeper, hence Rs1000+200= Rs 1200/-
and Rs 800/- returned to lady Hence,
Total loss is Rs 1000+ Rs 200+ Rs 800 = Rs 2000/-
Gurwinder Singh
Gurwinder Singh · Jul 6, 2014
Rank C3 - EXPERT
Prasanna Papalkar
The Answer is Rs 2000/-
The Shopkeeper has given Rs 200/- worth goods to lady. So Loss Rs 200
then Rs 1000 is given to another Shopkeeper, hence Rs1000+200= Rs 1200/-
and Rs 800/- returned to lady Hence,
Total loss is Rs 1000+ Rs 200+ Rs 800 = Rs 2000/-
He retuned same 1000 rs back to another shopkeeper which he taken from him. So loss only 1000(200 goods+ 800 cash to lady)
vks2508
vks2508 · Jul 15, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Definitely 1000.


Think of him not as a shopkeeper, but a person standing on a street selling a Rs. 200 worth watch and that is all he has in his pocket.


So here is the simple scenario:

The lady is a passerby customer

SK1 is person selling Rs.200 watch

SK2 is another person with a Rs.1000 change of Rs.200 x 5


1. SK1 owns Rs.200 worth of watch (so he has Rs.200 in his pocket)

2. He gives it to Lady and so he is Rs.200 short

3. Lady gives him Rs.1000, SK1 takes it to SK2 (note that he has not touched his pocket, nothing in, nothing out), brings back Rs.200 * 5, gives Rs.800 to lady and puts Rs.200 in his pocket. So he has Rs.200 back in his pocket. (no loss yet, he has what he started with).

4. SK2 comes back and asks for Rs.1000.

5. SK1 gives him Rs.200 from his pocket and additional Rs.800 he has to get from his ATM.

6. He loses his Rs.200 from his pocket and additional Rs.800 so Rs.1000 is his total loss.


Input = Output.


SK2 has no profit no loss (he gets his $1000 back)

Lady gets $1000 ($200 watch and $800 cash).


So there is only net gain of $1000 to lady (goods and cash). This must come at a loss for SK1.


Folks who think $1800 are wrong because $ 800 SK1 is giving away to lady is not from his pocket, but what he got from SK2, which he ends up returning to SK2 anyways. You guys are counting $800 twice.
rjan1943
rjan1943 · Aug 25, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Ulimately what is the correct answer?
Ankita Katdare
Ankita Katdare · Aug 25, 2014
Rank A1 - PRO
I went through all the replies mentioned here and I think the majority stands with Rs. 1000.

PS: It is not always necessary that majority is always correct, but for the lack of knowledge of the question creator - that's our best bet.
pavani kumari
pavani kumari · Aug 31, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Ankita Katdare
A friend asked me this question, the other day -

A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
The lady gives him Rs. 1000 note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps Rs. 200 for himself and returns Rs. 800 to the lady.
Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the Rs. 1000 note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.
How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face?

The answers that people came up with were - Rs. 1000, Rs. 2000, Rs. 1800, Rs. 1200 and Rs. 800

If you are going to reply with an answer, please provide a detailed solution.
I
pavani kumari
pavani kumari · Aug 31, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Ankita Katdare
A friend asked me this question, the other day -

A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
The lady gives him Rs. 1000 note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps Rs. 200 for himself and returns Rs. 800 to the lady.
Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the Rs. 1000 note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.
How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face?

The answers that people came up with were - Rs. 1000, Rs. 2000, Rs. 1800, Rs. 1200 and Rs. 800

If you are going to reply with an answer, please provide a detailed solution.
I think it is Rs.1200 bcoz he had given Rs.1000 return to the next shopkeeper and additional goods of Rs.200 to the lady.
Renuka Krishnan
Renuka Krishnan · Sep 3, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
hi ,
Even at first time i just thought it would be 1800 1200 but my ans is 1000 bcaz at first time shopkeeper initially having 200 Rs(goods) and finally he is having 200(cash) . Initially that lady has 0 but finally she got (200 worth goods + 800 as change) dont touch this part also and the sK1 receiving 1000 from SK2. he has return the money to him he is having (200 SK1 + 800(he has to put )) he has to give .so its 1000
Joyto
Joyto · Nov 3, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Saandeep Sreerambatla
The loss is 1000.

Since he sold 200rupees of goods and got original 200 from other shop keeper so there is no loss.

Next comes he gave 800 away to the lady who deserves.

But when the note is fake, he has to give back 1000. so I think answer is 1000.
The shopkeeper faced a loss of rs1800.
He had to return rs1000(original) to the other shopkeeper. He returned rs800(original) to the customer and gave items of rs200.
1000+800+200 = 2000
but her had rs200(original) with him for the product he sold.
So, total loss incurred by him - 2000-200=1800
Joyto
Joyto · Nov 3, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
The shopkeeper faced a loss of rs1800.
He had to return rs1000(original) to the other shopkeeper. He returned rs800(original) to the customer and gave items of rs200.
1000+800+200 = 2000
but her had rs200(original) with him for the product he sold.
So, total loss incurred by him - 2000-200=1800
Joyto
Joyto · Nov 3, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Ankita Katdare
Unfortunately we don't have a final answer. Those who say the answer is 1000 or 1200, I fear, are making some unknown assumptions.

Correct me if I am wrong.
The shopkeeper faced a loss of rs1800.
He had to return rs1000(original) to the other shopkeeper. He returned rs800(original) to the customer and gave items of rs200.
1000+800+200 = 2000
but her had rs200(original) with him for the product he sold.
So, total loss incurred by him - 2000-200=1800
Vijay B
Vijay B · Nov 10, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Two Answers here.

If you give value to the duplicate note, The Lost would be Rs.2000/-.
If you don't give value to the duplicate note, The Lost would be Rs.1000/-.

Please correct me if I am wrong!!!!!
Joyto
Joyto · Nov 11, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
jay B, post: 330105, member: 190772"]Two Answers here.

If you give value to the duplicate note, The Lost would be Rs.2000/-.
If you don't give value to the duplicate note, The Lost would be Rs.1000/-.

Please correct me if I am wrong!!!!![/QUOTE]
Value wont be given to the duplicate note. But he had to pay rs 1000 to the next shopkeeper from his own pocket and he also had to give rs800 to the lady.
PRIYADEEP SENGUPTA
PRIYADEEP SENGUPTA · Nov 17, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
The shopkeeper suffers through a loss of Rs 1200. That's because he sells the goods to the lady with zero profit and on the other hand he has to give back Rs 1000 to the other shopkeeper.so
Loss=C.P-S.P
=200(for goods)+1000(to other shopkeeper)-0(since the money was fake)
=1200
Shyam_puzzle
Shyam_puzzle · Nov 21, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
Best reply on this thread! Hope everyone reads this before posting anymore!!
Shyam_puzzle
Shyam_puzzle · Nov 21, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
Mel-jones has come with the best reply so far! Hope everyone reads this!

mel-jones
Anwser is 1000 (I own a shop and attend cash tills).

Explanation 1 (cash counter perspective) - End of the day all u have to see is the fake note sitting at the counter is invalid and that 1000 rs fake note is the loss since the good is sold with no profit.

Explanation 2 - (who lost and who gained) For those with any other answer pls try and think this way. If the shop keeper lost 1200 or 1800 or 2000 or any amount then the involving partys should have gained that same amount. The customer gave in 0(1000fake note) and got back 200 goods and 800 change so he gained 1000, the neighbor gave in 1000 real not for a fake note and again gave his fake note and got back his 1000 , so neighbor gained 0. so the gain for opposing partys are 1000.

Explanation 3 - (Accounts perspective) - Profit and loss is calculated on the basis of what u had and what u have , its called opening and closing balance.If the customer started with 1000 cash and 200 stock as opening balance at end of the day he would have 200 cash and 0 stock has closing balance .
"If" Opening balance is - 1000 cash and 200 stock. Then closing balance would be 200 cash and 0 stock si he had 1200 opening and just 200 closing, 1200-200 = 1000.

Hope this settles it 😀
prahu mac
prahu mac · Nov 26, 2014
Rank C2 - EXPERT
the answer is 1000
vamshi krishan
vamshi krishan · Nov 26, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Hai all don't simply go for math to solve this question just think, in the question it is said that to explain your answer. And never said to choose from the numbers given.
Leave all the stuff from the beginning of the question just carry on from where the second shop keeper came and return back the fake note and here qestion fallows.

How much did the shopkeeper face ?

Answer is 0 Loss because because he gave the fake not and taken back the change he given.
vamshi krishan
vamshi krishan · Nov 26, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Hai all dont simply go for math to solve this question just think, Leave all the stuff from the beginning of the question just carry on from where the second shop keeper came and return back the fake note and here qestion fallows.

How much did the shopkeeper face ?

Answer is 0 Loss because because he gave the fake not and taken back the change he given.

Dont simply answer as a primary school children it's an IAS question. Think twice and read properly the question before answering it.
vamshi krishan
vamshi krishan · Nov 26, 2014
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Hai all dont simply go for math to solve this question just think, in the question it is said that to explain your answer. And never said to choose from the numbers given.
Leave all the stuff from the beginning of the question just carry on from where the second shop keeper came and return back the fake note and here qestion fallows.

How much did the shopkeeper face ?

Answer is 0 Loss because because he gave the fake not and taken back the change he given.
Shyam_puzzle
Shyam_puzzle · Nov 26, 2014
Rank D2 - MASTER
vamshi krishan
Hai all dont simply go for math to solve this question just think, in the question it is said that to explain your answer. And never said to choose from the numbers given.
Leave all the stuff from the beginning of the question just carry on from where the second shop keeper came and return back the fake note and here qestion fallows.

How much did the shopkeeper face ?

Answer is 0 Loss because because he gave the fake not and taken back the change he given.
Vamshi you are right about no loss in the interaction between the shopkeepers. The loss suffered by the first keeper is with the lady to whom he gives money as well as goods, net loss being 1000.

Why don't you read through all the answers? Some of them have explained it beautifully. Especially Mel-jones.
SKITTLE
SKITTLE · Nov 29, 2014
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
i think its Rs.1800
AjayKedar
AjayKedar · Feb 27, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Hello,
The answer must be
Rs 200 cash to purchase the good + Rs 800 given to lady
+ Rs 1000 - to Next shop keeper + and RS 200 good

So total loss would be RS 2200
B Vijay
B Vijay · Mar 19, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Answer is 1000.
1) Just Assume shop keeper doesn't have any money, he just had 200 rs worth goods.
2) Lady gave him 1000 rs fake note so it's value is 0.
3) So now he had 200 rs goods + 0 = 200.
4) Next shop keeper gave him 1000 rs.
5) So now he had 200 rs goods+0+1000.
6) And she took 200 rs goods + 800 rs money = 1000 rs.
7) Now he had only 200 rs (200 +0+ 1000 -200 -800).
8) And he has to give 1000 to next shop keeper so, 200 - 1000 = -800.
9) Now he had -800 rs,-200 rs goods and 0 (i.e., fake note)= -1000.
10) So his loss is 1000.
Balamurali Krishna
Balamurali Krishna · Mar 23, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Ankita Katdare
A friend asked me this question, the other day -

A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
The lady gives him Rs. 1000 note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps Rs. 200 for himself and returns Rs. 800 to the lady.
Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the Rs. 1000 note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.
How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face?

The answers that people came up with were - Rs. 1000, Rs. 2000, Rs. 1800, Rs. 1200 and Rs. 800

If you are going to reply with an answer, please provide a detailed solution.
Ankita Katdare
A friend asked me this question, the other day -

A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
The lady gives him Rs. 1000 note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps Rs. 200 for himself and returns Rs. 800 to the lady.
Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the Rs. 1000 note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.
How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face?

The answers that people came up with were - Rs. 1000, Rs. 2000, Rs. 1800, Rs. 1200 and Rs. 800

If you are going to reply with an answer, please provide a detailed solution.
The lady gave a fake note of Rs.1000. Its actual worth is Rs.0. But she bought goods for Rs.200 and got Rs.800 as change. So the shopkeeper lost Rs.800 as cash and Rs.200 as goods. So he totally lost Rs.1000 to the lady. In between, he bought change from the next shop for the fake 1000 rupees note. In that change, he gave Rs.800 to the lady as we seen earlier. So now the shopkeeper has just Rs.200 with him(he got this for that goods sale). Now the second shopkeeper demands Rs.1000 from the first shopkeeper exclaiming that its a fake note. So the first shopkeeper gave Rs.1000 to the second. So he lost Rs.1000 to the second shopkeeper. Totally Rs.2000 is the loss incurred by the shopkeeper.
Ankita Katdare
A friend asked me this question, the other day -

A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
The lady gives him Rs. 1000 note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps Rs. 200 for himself and returns Rs. 800 to the lady.
Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the Rs. 1000 note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.
How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face?

The answers that people came up with were - Rs. 1000, Rs. 2000, Rs. 1800, Rs. 1200 and Rs. 800

If you are going to reply with an answer, please provide a detailed solution.
Mohan Nanjundan
Mohan Nanjundan · Mar 31, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
The answer is 1000.
Assuming the shopkeeper (SK1) has Rs.0 in his draw.
The lady show up with a fake note of Rs.1000 and buys a product worth 200.
Since the shopkeeper has no money with him, he takes the fake note to the next shopkeeper (SK2) and and buys change for Rs. 1000.
He pays Rs. 800 back to the lady.
Now he has Rs.200 (original notes) with him, he thinks he has regained his initial investment.
When the SK2 walks in with the fake note and asks him to change it, SK1 who has 200 with him now has take out 800 from his pocket so that he can give Rs.1000 to the SK 2.

So now he has given only 800 (from his pocket)+200 (value of the goods). hence the net loss is 1000.

Note: people get confused when they consider both 200(value of the goods) and the 200 which he had with him for a while after selling the shop as loss. only one entity can be considered.
@@Dhi
@@Dhi · Apr 29, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
the shopkeeper gives the fake note to his neighbor and settles lady,and she gains 200 worth goods and she gets 800 liquid cash. . . actually giving nothing (fake note = rs0) and after knowing that the 1000rs note is fake,neighbor gets back his 1000rs from the shop keeper . . . . therefore he has lost additionally rs1000 from his packet which he used to settle his neighbor and also he lost 1000 (800+200worth goods) ans might be 2000rs
Satheesh S.S
Satheesh S.S · Apr 29, 2015
Rank D2 - MASTER
1200 loss returning amount+buying amount=1000+200
Bhargav001
Bhargav001 · May 8, 2015
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Yeah
Loss is 2000rs because shopkeeper has given 800+200(goods) and he also have to pay 1000 to other shopkeeper
Sadath
Sadath · May 9, 2015
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Ans. is 2000 only
lady come with bare hands (fake 1000)
shopkeeper gave 200 worth goods -> 200 loss
shopkeeper gave 800 Rs. to her -> 800 loss
shopkeeper gave 1000 Rs instead
fake note to sk.2 -> 1000 loss
total -> 2000 loss
😀 😀 😉 😁
Sadath
Sadath · May 9, 2015
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
And the conclusion is...
The lady who confused the shopkeeper + 6 pages peoples = is...,😎
and her name is Ankita Katdare 😁😛😛😁😁
kavitha maska
kavitha maska · May 22, 2015
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
sry to say
shopkeeper took 1000rs change and kept 200 and returned 800
later for next shopkeeper he has to return 1000 so he gave the 200 change+ 800 from his own money
so total 1800+ 200 products cost
2000
kavitha maska
kavitha maska · May 22, 2015
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
micheal john
1) shopkeeper gave the lady 200rs worth product
2) next shopkeeper has to return 1000rs to the second shopkeeper
3)200+1000 = 1200

ans: 1200

P.S the confusing factor here is the change the shopkeeper gave to the lady, the money the shopkeeper return back to the 2nd shopkeeper
then where is the change 800 he has given to that lady
kavitha maska
kavitha maska · May 22, 2015
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
msn krishna
ans; 1800
because, lady gave fake note that means she gave nothing

shopkeeper (1); took 1000 from shopkeeper (2). by giving fake note (zero)

shopkeeper (1) gave product worth 200 + 800 change (for fake 1000 note). so now in his hand 200

lady got 200+800=1000 (for a fake note)

later shopkeeper(2) came and asked 1000 back.

then shopkeeper (1) gave 200 (in his hand ) + 800 from his own money.

so that finally got loss 1800 ( 200 product + 800 change to lady + 800 to shopkeeper (2) from his own money)

as shopkeeper (1) gave 1000 but 200 in his hand is product fair .

and finally it correct answer (no doubt at all )

ur"s> MSN KRISHNA
then where is the products cost he lossed
he gave 200rs worth products so 800+200 there he lost 1000 and later he gave 1000 back total 2000
Ruwani Perera
Ruwani Perera · Jun 19, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
my answer is:
[​IMG]
vijay kadarla
vijay kadarla · Jun 22, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
leave all that stuff.... he has given lady a 200+800=1000. that's it that is the final loss.. shopkeeper dint lose nothn than that. the nxt shop keeper has given change of 1000 and taken back the same 1000 so no loss at this side... so my ans is 1000 only think once its clr.
vijay kadarla
vijay kadarla · Jun 22, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Ankita Katdare
A lot of people have confirmed the answer to be Rs. 1200.
Because the cost of item sold is considered separately.
leave all that stuff.... he has given lady a 200+800=1000. that's it that is the final loss.. shopkeeper dint lose nothn than that. the nxt shop keeper has given change of 1000 and taken back the same 1000 so no loss at this side... so my ans is 1000 only think once its clr.
pradeepvs20
pradeepvs20 · Jun 23, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Untitled
Avinash Yetukuri
Avinash Yetukuri · Jun 26, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Ankita Katdare
A friend asked me this question, the other day -

A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
The lady gives him Rs. 1000 note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps Rs. 200 for himself and returns Rs. 800 to the lady.
Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the Rs. 1000 note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.
How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face?

The answers that people came up with were - Rs. 1000, Rs. 2000, Rs. 1800, Rs. 1200 and Rs. 800

If you are going to reply with an answer, please provide a detailed solution.
Hi Team

Please find my solution Infographic below.

Fake Note Puzzle
Shopkeeper 1 is at a loss of Rs.1000
Avinash Yetukuri
Avinash Yetukuri · Jun 26, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Ankita Katdare
A friend asked me this question, the other day -

A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
The lady gives him Rs. 1000 note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps Rs. 200 for himself and returns Rs. 800 to the lady.
Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the Rs. 1000 note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.
How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face?

The answers that people came up with were - Rs. 1000, Rs. 2000, Rs. 1800, Rs. 1200 and Rs. 800

If you are going to reply with an answer, please provide a detailed solution.
Hi Team

Please find my solution Infographic below.

Fake Note Puzzle
Shopkeeper 1 is at a loss of Rs.1000
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare · Jun 26, 2015
Rank A1 - PRO
The only way to arrive at a correct answer for this puzzle is to declare the assumptions. Otherwise we all will keep getting different answers and yet, everyone will be right.
Swarup kar
Swarup kar · Jun 28, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
2000 should be the answer

1000 for fake
800 bucks for the change
200 bucks the product worth
Swarup kar
Swarup kar · Jun 28, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
2000 should be the answer

1000 for fake
800 bucks for the change
200 bucks the product worth
Rambabuk
Rambabuk · Jul 31, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Very simple..... If 1000 note is real no one is in lose right?
So 1000 is the net lose......
Rambabuk
Rambabuk · Jul 31, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Kaustubh Katdare
The only way to arrive at a correct answer for this puzzle is to declare the assumptions. Otherwise we all will keep getting different answers and yet, everyone will be right.
Ankita Katdare
A lot of people have confirmed the answer to be Rs. 1200.
Because the cost of item sold is considered separately.
Very Simple..... If 1000 note is real no one is in lose right? So 1000 is the net lose to the first shopkeeper.....
Arc
Arc · Aug 19, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
1800.
explanation : 200 the rs of item. 800 the rs given back to lady. 800 money taken from near shop.(took 1000 rs but used only 800). ie, net effect shop keeper lost 1800.
Arun Kumar Gaddam
Arun Kumar Gaddam · Aug 20, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Answer is 1000.

She gave Fake note (1000)
Shop keeper 1 : Exchanged Fake note and Get 1000 Rs to his store.
Shop keeper 2 : Reverted the fake note to SK 1 and took his 1000.

Now Shopkeeper 1 has 1000 Fake note & He lost the 800 Rupees & 200 (items). Total 1000 loss to the SK1
udaya kiran addepalli
udaya kiran addepalli · Aug 21, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
The answer is 2000 - 1800 cash and 200 worth goods
The lady had taken 200 worth goods and 800 cash for a note which has no value.
Since the shopkeeper tried to change the note which has no value, the other shop took 1000 original rupees back.

So the total money in terms of cash and goods is 2000
ameyrathod
ameyrathod · Sep 24, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
SK1 = Rs. 1800 [Rs. 1000 [To Lady => Rs.200 (Goods) + Rs.800] + Rs. 200 [Change Left => Rs.200 (Rs.1000 - 800)] + Rs.800 [To SK2 => Rs. 200(Change Left) + Rs. 800 (From his Pocket)]]
Navdeeps2308
Navdeeps2308 · Sep 24, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Ankita Katdare
A friend asked me this question, the other day -

A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
The lady gives him Rs. 1000 note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps Rs. 200 for himself and returns Rs. 800 to the lady.
Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the Rs. 1000 note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.
How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face?

The answers that people came up with were - Rs. 1000, Rs. 2000, Rs. 1800, Rs. 1200 and Rs. 800

If you are going to reply with an answer, please provide a detailed solution.
Well i Have seen alot of answers to it
So lets get to it line by line

1st case- lady buys goods worth 200
This make her +200 in goods value and sk1 at - 200 goods value and sk2 is out of scene(OoS)

Noe lady pays 1k
This makes lady at +200 goods value and less 1k cash value= net 800 loss value
Sk1- becomes -200 goods value and +1k cash value= at 800 gain
Sk2 is OoS

Noe sk1 gives sk2 1k
Now lady is OoS here standing at 800 loss
Sk1 is at -200 goods value plus 1k from lady less 1k to sk2= -200 good value
Sk2 is now at +1k from sk1

Now sk2 pays sk1 1k for his exchange
Lady is OoS at 800 loss value
Sk1 got 1k from sk2 which makes him stand back to -200 goods loss and 1k cash= 800 gain
Sk2 Is at 0 loss now

Back to sk1 pays back to lady
Now lady has 200 worth goods and 800 cash from sk1 equalling her 1k value
Sk1 becomes settled for now at 200 cash against 200 valued goods at exchange
Sk2 is at no loss

Now trick part
1k note wid sk2 is fake
Lady OoS wid 200 goods nd 800 cash
Sk1 OoS wid -200 goods + 200 cash
Sk2 at - 1k fake note

Sk2 takes 1k from sk1
Lady OoS wid 200 goods nd 800 cash
Sk1 is at +200 cash - 200 goods -1k to sk2 = a loss of value of 1000
Sk2 is settled at 0 loss as + 1k from sk1 - 1k fake note

This concludes the total loss is
Lady OoS at the end having no loss no gain
Sk1 at 1k loss of fake note( 200 goods loss plus 200 cash he has less 1k fake note)
Sk2 at no loss no gain at 0 value

Conclusion
Sk1 had to bear loss of rupees 1000
Satish_crazy
Satish_crazy · Oct 2, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
A different way to look at it:
Shopkeeper is making no profit by selling. What does it imply:
If he sells the item the loss is zero.
If he couldn't sell an item the loss is 200
If he gives it for free, the loss is 400
If he gives an item and makes additional loss of 800, total loss is 1200.
er.anil.ec
er.anil.ec · Oct 5, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
answer will be 1000 Rs. if we consider the 200 Rs of good.
otherwise it will be 800 Rs.
Consider the problem like this.
loss of shopkeeper = profit to lady , So to get the loss of shopkeeper, calculate how much money is there in lady's hand.
Simply at the end with goods its 1000Rs and without goods its 800Rs.
er.anil.ec
er.anil.ec · Oct 5, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
answer will be 1000 Rs. if we consider the 200 Rs of good.
otherwise it will be 800 Rs.
Consider the problem like this.
loss of shopkeeper = profit to lady , So to get the loss of shopkeeper, calculate how much money is there in lady's hand.
Simply at the end with goods its 1000Rs and without goods its 800Rs.
ram_krishna14
ram_krishna14 · Oct 12, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Lady gets 1000/- profit(200 worth things and 800 from change)
Shopkeeper has to give 1000 to other shopkeeper as its a fake note.
So...Answer is 2000
200( that lady bought some things) + 800(he gives to lady as remaining change) + 1000(the fake note change for the other shopkeeper).
So totally 2000
Deep Chand
Deep Chand · Oct 13, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Right ans. is 2000

Lady received a good of Rs. 200 and cash of Rs. 800
Second shopkeeper takes Rs. 1000 back from first shopkeeper against fake note
SainiNancy
SainiNancy · Oct 15, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
1000 rs
the other shopkeer is there just to confuse.he has no role to play..the lady has given 1000 rs fake not so the loss is 1000 only..ya but as the goods includes profit margin as well the actuall loss will be less than 1000.
SainiNancy
SainiNancy · Oct 15, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
1000 rs
the other shopkeer is there just to confuse.he has no role to play..the lady has given 1000 rs fake not so the loss is 1000 only..ya but as the goods includes profit margin as well the actuall loss will be less than 1000.
irocker
irocker · Oct 21, 2015
Rank D2 - MASTER
FINAL (and real) ANSWER IS 1000 Rs. !!!!

EXPLANATION
: FOR THE FIRST TIME WHEN SHOPKEEPER (on whom loss is incurred) IS TAKING A FAKE NOTE (VALUE = 0), HE IS GIVING OUT EQUIVALENT REAL MONEY (Rs. 800) PLUS GOODS (Value = Rs. 200). HE INCURRED LOSS OF Rs. 1000.

IN SECOND TRANSACTION, HE RETURNED THAT SAME AMOUNT THAT HE BORROWED EARLIER FROM THE OTHER SHOPKEEPER. SO, NO EXCHANGE HAPPENED!!!

OR THINK IT LIKE THIS: ASSUME THAT SHOPKEEPER TO SHOPKEEPER TRANSACTION NEVER HAPPENED AND SHOPKEEPER TO WHOM THE FAKE NOTE WAS PRESENTED HAD 800 Rs. CHANGE. NOW WHEN HE IS PRESENTED WITH 1000 Rs. FAKE NOTE HE GIVES TO THE LADY 800 Rs. CASH AND GOODS WORTH 200 Rs. (EQUAL TO 1000 REAL RUPEES). SO TOTAL LOSS = 1000 Rs.

Think!!!
Cheers!!!
irocker
irocker · Oct 21, 2015
Rank D2 - MASTER
FINAL (and real) ANSWER IS 1000 Rs. !!!!

EXPLANATION: FOR THE FIRST TIME WHEN SHOPKEEPER (on whom loss is incurred) IS TAKING A FAKE NOTE (VALUE = 0), HE IS GIVING OUT EQUIVALENT REAL MONEY (Rs. 800) PLUS GOODS (Value = Rs. 200). HE INCURRED LOSS OF Rs. 1000.

IN SECOND TRANSACTION, HE RETURNED THAT SAME AMOUNT THAT HE BORROWED EARLIER FROM THE OTHER SHOPKEEPER. SO, NO EXCHANGE HAPPENED!!!

OR THINK IT LIKE THIS:
ASSUME THAT SHOPKEEPER TO SHOPKEEPER TRANSACTION NEVER HAPPENED (because what was initially taken, was returned later) AND SHOPKEEPER TO WHOM THE FAKE NOTE WAS PRESENTED HAD 800 Rs. CHANGE. NOW WHEN HE IS PRESENTED WITH 1000 Rs. FAKE NOTE HE GIVES TO THE LADY 800 Rs. CASH AND GOODS WORTH 200 Rs. (EQUAL TO 1000 REAL RUPEES). SO TOTAL LOSS = 1000 Rs.

Think!!!
Cheers!!!
Taranjit_Singh__
Taranjit_Singh__ · Nov 18, 2015
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Real answer is 2000 loss to the shopkeeper (Sk1) if he is selling at zero profit. Problem with all accountants and engineers here is that they are circulating fake currency in their transactions and considering it as real (they are saying second shopkeeper (Sk2) is for confusion, but he is not. Yes he got his money back but he is not there in the puzzle to just create confusion). It is like an indirect robbery happening in front of shopkeeper 1.

Just do a practical here. Put ten Rs. 100 notes under Sk2 and take a piece of paper and write Rs. 1000 fake note on it. SK1 has no money. Now, lady comes to the shop and buys Rs. 200 worth of products. She gives a note of Rs. 1000 (fake) to the shopkeeper. He has no money in change, so he goes to shopkeeper 2 for change in exchange for Rs. 1000 (fake) note.

He gives Rs. 800 (real money) to the lady and keeps Rs. 200 (real money) with him. He has only Rs. 200 (real money) with him now. Lady is gone with Rs. 200 worth of products and Rs. 800 cash (real money).

Shopkeeper 2 comes and says the Rs. 1000 note is fake.

Here is the underlining part now.

Shopkeeper 1 has to return Rs. 1000 (real money) to shopkeeper 2, but the lady has already gone with Rs. 1000 (Rs. 200 worth of goods and Rs. 800 (real money)). Shopkeeper 1 has only Rs. 200 (real money) with him at this time. So, in order to return Rs. 1000 (real money) to shopkeeper 2, shopkeeper 1 has to arrange Rs. 800 (real money) from somewhere.

Now, some people are saying that shopkeeper 1 sold Rs. 200 worth of products and has Rs. 200 (real money) now. How can he sell something when the lady gave him nothing. She just robbed him.

Therefore, lady took Rs. 800 cash (real money).

Shopkeeper 1 has to return Rs. 1000 (real money) to shopkeeper 2, but shopkeeper 1 has only Rs. 200 (real money) with him. He cannot ask the lady to return Rs. 800 (real money) because she is gone. He has to arrange for Rs. 800 (real money) from somewhere.

Also, shopkeeper 1 was robbed of Rs. 200 worth of products.

800+1000+200 = 2000.
Taranjit_Singh__
Taranjit_Singh__ · Nov 18, 2015
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Shyam_puzzle
Ans = 1000. Two ways to solve it - A and B.

A. Keeping the two transactions separate makes for easy solution -
  • With lady, inflow is fake note, outflow is goods worth 200 n 800 cash, so net outflow is 1000, hence loss is 1000.
  • With the other keeper, two deals happen -
    • first inflow is real 1000, outflow fake note.
    • second inflow is fake note, outflow real 1000.
    • therefore, net transaction is 0. so no profit, no loss there.
Hence, you see the only loss happened with the lady, which amounts to 1000.

B. If u insist on taking transactions as it happened then here it goes -
  1. inflow from lady, fake note.
  2. Went to other keeper, inflow is real 1000, outflow fake note.
  3. Came back to shop, gave lady goods worth 200 n real 800. So outflow in cash value so far is 1000 n inflow is 200 which is still left.
  4. Other keeper comes back, inflow is fake note, outflow real 1000. To give this 1000, first keeper uses 200 that was left (from above point) n HAS TO ADD 800 OF HIS OWN MONEY. so net outflow is 800.
As you can see, in the entire transactions, the first keeper NEVER USES HIS OWN MONEY UNTIL he has to give back 1000 to other keeper, that is when HE GIVES 800 OF HIS OWN MONEY n 200 which was left with him.

So, the first keeper's loss is goods worth 200 plus 800 given to other keeper, total of 1000. Remember that the 800 given to the lady was not his own money, it was the other keepers money! (IN THIS TRANSACTION CASE).

Therefore, net loss is 1000.

Hope I could get my points across. Think it over, even play act it if u want to 😀
Taranjit_Singh__
Taranjit_Singh__ · Nov 18, 2015
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
irocker
FINAL (and real) ANSWER IS 1000 Rs. !!!!

EXPLANATION: FOR THE FIRST TIME WHEN SHOPKEEPER (on whom loss is incurred) IS TAKING A FAKE NOTE (VALUE = 0), HE IS GIVING OUT EQUIVALENT REAL MONEY (Rs. 800) PLUS GOODS (Value = Rs. 200). HE INCURRED LOSS OF Rs. 1000.

IN SECOND TRANSACTION, HE RETURNED THAT SAME AMOUNT THAT HE BORROWED EARLIER FROM THE OTHER SHOPKEEPER. SO, NO EXCHANGE HAPPENED!!!

OR THINK IT LIKE THIS:
ASSUME THAT SHOPKEEPER TO SHOPKEEPER TRANSACTION NEVER HAPPENED (because what was initially taken, was returned later) AND SHOPKEEPER TO WHOM THE FAKE NOTE WAS PRESENTED HAD 800 Rs. CHANGE. NOW WHEN HE IS PRESENTED WITH 1000 Rs. FAKE NOTE HE GIVES TO THE LADY 800 Rs. CASH AND GOODS WORTH 200 Rs. (EQUAL TO 1000 REAL RUPEES). SO TOTAL LOSS = 1000 Rs.

Think!!!
Cheers!!!
Irfan Amin
Irfan Amin · Nov 19, 2015
Rank D3 - MASTER
Answer is 1800:
As the shopkeeper return 800 to the lady.
He paid 1000 to the other shopkeeper and 800 to the lazy.
Taranjit_Singh__
Taranjit_Singh__ · Nov 19, 2015
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
What about 200 rs. Worth of products she took?
Taranjit_Singh__
Taranjit_Singh__ · Nov 19, 2015
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Irfan Amin
Answer is 1800:
As the shopkeeper return 800 to the lady.
He paid 1000 to the other shopkeeper and 800 to the lazy.
What about the rs. 200 worth of products she took.
Ankita Katdare
Ankita Katdare · Dec 4, 2015
Rank A1 - PRO
This puzzle has single handedly made thousands of engineers scratch their heads and scribble on their notepads since last two years. I've said it before and I say it again - I have a feeling that the question itself has loopholes. There can never be a problem where it's simple maths and there are more than 1 answers. The information given may not be complete and hence the problem is flowing around for SO long.

Anyone here has another explanation?
sauku
sauku · Dec 18, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Ans Is Rs 2000 total loss suffered by the shopkeeper
1. Rs 200 is loss of good
2. Rs 800 given to lady
3. Rs 1000 which he has given to the shopkeeper on the behalf of fake note.
total of above amt. consider as a loss face by the shopkeeper.
that is 200+800+1000 =Rs 2000/-
check this out and think again.
killerboy1121
killerboy1121 · Dec 26, 2015
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
see its very simple yrrr .........when the fake note is of rs1000 ....then obviously the loss will be of 1000 ....how it can be of 1200 or 1800 and so on .....
manu sebastian
manu sebastian · Jan 1, 2016
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
the correct answer is 2000
the lady got 1000rs of free things
the money that sk2has given goes fully to the lady because she got 800rs which sk1 got from sk2 and the goods and the 200 rs cash
sk1 has to give money INCLUDINGthe 200 rs cash to make up 1000rs

so sk1 hasloss of 1000+1000=2000
Tom Travel
Tom Travel · Jan 2, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Anoop Kumar
I am considering sold Item value also . The table I given is clearly showing this.
I know explaining this orally is difficult that's why I calculated on totally math based.
Anoop you are considering the sold value item while giving it to the lady and deducting from the Shopkeeper 1. This sold item value is recovered from the shopkeeper 2 while getting the change cash. But when the shopkeeper 1 has to return the whole 1000rs to shopkeeper 2 we have to consider deducting the item value again (that he had gained from the change cash earlier) the shopkeeper 1 is now losing while returning the change cash. So it will be 0-200+1000-800-1000-200
Savy Rana
Savy Rana · Jan 7, 2016
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Answer is 1000,
Shopkeeper of the next shop is in no profit and no loss situation, because he gave Rs1000(Suppose Rs 100*10) and get back Rs 1000.
Now it's between Lady and the Shopkeeper,
Loss of Shopkeeper=Profit of Lady
Now, Lady's profit is goods worth Rs 200 + Rs 800(Change given by Shopkeeper)
So, Loss of Shopkeeper is Rs 1000.00
HENCE PROVED
I am a Commerce student not an Engineer. PEACE
Hameed Akhtar
Hameed Akhtar · Feb 25, 2016
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
its 1200.
the people who are saying 1000 is actually missing "the stock has been also reduced in the shop of first shopkeeper".
Ramani Aswath
Ramani Aswath · Feb 25, 2016
Rank A1 - PRO
Just look at the basics: the fake note has zero value. The shopkeeper gave the lady Rs.200 goods and Rs.800 cash. So, the loss is 800+200=1000.
fawhash
fawhash · Mar 14, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Lady brings in 1000rs fake note.
She gets a change from shopkeeper 2.
Gives 200 REAL money to Shopkeeper 1 and gets 200 worth of goods in return. Right now, the net loss for Shopkeeper 1 is 800. Shopkeeper 2 comes to get his 1000rs back. Now the loss is 1800.
fawhash
fawhash · Mar 14, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
No, No, No. The answer is 1000. As the the loss for Shopkeeper 1 in the first transaction was nothing as he gave 200 worth of real goods for 200 worth of real money the lady had got from shopkeeper 2. Next, the shopkeeper 2 comes to the shopkeeper 1 and demands his 1000rs back. So, the only outflow for Shopkeeper 1 that's actually the loss is 1000.
fawhash
fawhash · Mar 14, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
1st step the lady took was to get the fake not changed from Shopkeeper 2.
2nd step she took was to give 200 money for 200 goods earning shopkeeper 1 profit of 200.
3rd step was taken by shop keeper 2 when he demanded his 1000 rs back.
Shopkeeper 1 who thought he had a profit of 200 realized that he had not profited at all. He gives 1000 rs to the Shopkeeper 2 but and is only left with the consolation that he at-least had 200 for the goods he gave to the lady.
fawhash
fawhash · Mar 14, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Those who are saying that answer can be 2000 or 1800 don't seem to realise that the 800 given to lady was actually the one she got from shopkeeper 2. It was not from shopkeepers own pocket. The only money from his own pocket was 1000 he gave to shopkeeper 2.
Santhakumar A
Santhakumar A · Mar 15, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
My Answer is 1000.
Here is my way of explanation. Since this puzzle has 3 people i will consider profit and loss for each.
1. First, the next shop's shopkeeper.
He lose 1000 rs real money for fake note and again got his money back. So no loss and no gain.
Loss=0
Gain=0

2. Second, the lady.
She invested 1000rs fake money and got real money of 800 rs+200 rs worth goods.
So her loss is nothing but gained 1000rs.
Loss=0
Gain=1000rs

3. Third, The shopkeeper.
Now the shopkeeper all he has is fake money of 1000rs.. Since he selling goods with zero profit What he gained is 1000 rs fake money. So it is loss only.
Loss=1000rs
gain=0

Now it is obvious that shopkeeper losses his money 1000 rs to that lady.
Kirti Deokar
Kirti Deokar · Jun 17, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
The shop keeper1 faced the loss of Rs.2000/-
Shop keeper1 (gives item worth Rs.200 + returns Rs 800 to lady)= Rs.1000
Shop Keeper1( gives Rs.1000 to Shop keeper2)= Rs.1000
Ramani Aswath
Ramani Aswath · Jun 17, 2016
Rank A1 - PRO
Kirti Deokar
Shop keeper1 (gives item worth Rs.200 + returns Rs 800 to lady)= Rs.1000
No. That came from the Rs.1000 he got from SK2. Ultimately the bottom line is that the lady got back a real Rs.1000 value for a fake Rs.1000 note.
Kirti Deokar
Kirti Deokar · Jul 2, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Ramani Sir, what about the fake note of Rs.1000 received by the SK1??
There's no use of it...
Renjith kv
Renjith kv · Jul 7, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
The shopkeeper has lost 1000 rupees - 800 Rs as cash and 200 Rs worth product.

Let me explain this with a simple equation.
Let + denote credit and - denote debit

Owner's net balance = +1000(Received from neighbour in exchage of the note given by customer)-200(Product value)-800(Balance he gave to the customer)-1000(Amount he gave to neighbour after he said that it was a counterfiet note)

Owner's net balance = -1000

Since the final result has - sign, it is a loss for Owner.
Renjith kv
Renjith kv · Jul 7, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
The shopkeeper has lost 1000 rupees - 800 Rs as cash and 200 Rs worth product.

Let me explain this with a simple equation.
Let + denote credit and - denote debit

Owner's net balance = +1000(Received from neighbour in exchage of the note given by customer)-200(Product value)-800(Balance he gave to the customer)-1000(Amount he gave to neighbour after he said that it was a counterfiet note)

Owner's net balance = -1000

Since the final result has - sign, it is a loss for Owner.
gandalfthegrey
gandalfthegrey · Jul 17, 2016
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Assume I have Rs 5000 initially(inclusive of goods worth) and I receive 1000 Rs (genuine) for goods worth Rs 200. After swapping notes and everything under fair conditions of trading I would end up with Rs 5200/- as my total deposit.

Now Asssume I recieve Rs 1000 (Fake) then my deposit initially after swapping the note is Rs 6000. I give out Rs 800 and Goods worth Rs 200/-. So I now have 5000/-. Then the shop keeper 2 comes and demands Rs 1000/- which makes my deposit Rs 4000/- at the end.

Hence I deviating from ideal conditions to conned conditions the total deposit difference is Rs 4000 - Rs 5200= - Rs 1200/-

Thus the loss shopkeeper suffered is of Rs 1200/-
sureshbv
sureshbv · Jul 21, 2016
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
he paid 200/- goods + 800/- money = 1000/-
he paid to other shopkeeper 1000/-
total loss = 2000/-
SREENIDHI THACHOLI
SREENIDHI THACHOLI · Jul 23, 2016
Rank D2 - MASTER
loss is 1000/-.
the shopkeeper2 gave him 1000/(in the form of change)- for that he have returned 1000/-to re-place the fake note.so we can say that 200/- + 800/- is now his money.since the note given by the lady was fake we can assume that the shopkeeper1 got nothing.but he gave 800/- as balance and goods worth 200/-.so total loss is 1000.
Rajeev Sudan
Rajeev Sudan · Aug 12, 2016
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Ans is 2000.
against 1000 fake Rs. shopkeeper give 800 to lady and 1000 to other shopkeeper and 200 cost of product
SREENIDHI THACHOLI
SREENIDHI THACHOLI · Aug 13, 2016
Rank D2 - MASTER
Rajeev Sudan
Ans is 2000.
against 1000 fake Rs. shopkeeper give 800 to lady and 1000 to other shopkeeper and 200 cost of product
but while the shopkeeper 1 gave 1000 /- to shop keeper 2 ,he had given back in the form of change . there is no loss for both because there is only exchange of money right?
VIKASH SEELAM
VIKASH SEELAM · Aug 13, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Saandeep Sreerambatla
The loss is 1000.

Since he sold 200rupees of goods and got original 200 from other shop keeper so there is no loss.

Next comes he gave 800 away to the lady who deserves.

But when the note is fake, he has to give back 1000. so I think answer is 1000.
no no he need to give 1000 rupees back to the shopkeeper and he didn't received his actual two hundred from the customer and the answer would be 1200
VIKASH SEELAM
VIKASH SEELAM · Aug 13, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
SREENIDHI T
but while the shopkeeper 1 gave 1000 /- to shop keeper 2 ,he had given back in the form of change . there is no loss for both because there is only exchange of money right?[/QUOTE
VIKASH SEELAM
no no he need to give 1000 rupees back to the shopkeeper and he didn't received his actual two hundred from the customer and the answer would be 1200
I think answer would 2000 as mentioned above by rajeev sundan and he's absolutely right
Sarathkumar Chandrasekaran
Rank A2 - PRO
Every time i read this post,i get new view over the discussion. Fellow CEans make me think twice.
Now i get an instinct that @Rajeev Sudan answer would be apt.
Total loss=200(product cost)+800(change given)+1000(fake note loss)=₹2000
Rajeev Sudan
Rajeev Sudan · Aug 13, 2016
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
thanks sarath, may other people also know the fact after ur post
SREENIDHI THACHOLI
SREENIDHI THACHOLI · Aug 13, 2016
Rank D2 - MASTER
even then i think the answer is 1000/-.
we can consolidate it as let the sk1 had already got the change from sk2 for exact 1000/-
now the lady gave 1000/- fake note to him.sk1 gave the balance 800/- to lady which is real and commodity that costs 200/-.since in the question it's already mentioned that he makes no profit now he have a loss of 1000/- due to the fake note.
Sarathkumar Chandrasekaran
Rank A2 - PRO
SREENIDHI T
even then i think the answer is 1000/-.
we can consolidate it as let the sk1 had already got the change from sk2 for exact 1000/-
now the lady gave 1000/- fake note to him.sk1 gave the balance 800/- to lady which is real and commodity that costs 200/-.since in the question it's already mentioned that he makes no profit now he have a loss of 1000/- due to the fake note.
Explaining again - my view
Total loss incurred - lets assume as you sais that shopkeeper has exact change for ₹1000.
Now the lady bought a product for ₹200 and gave ₹1000(fake) to shopkeeper.He gave ₹800(balance) from his cash counter.now he realises later that the ₹1000 note was fake so cinsolidating the loss-₹200(product)+₹800(SK1 cash)+₹1000(fake which he cannot use in future)=₹2000.
@Ankita Katdare @Anoop Mathew
SUKU007
SUKU007 · Aug 31, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
DONT GET MORE TWISTED WITH BY THE TWISTED QUESTION....
QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE LOSS OF THE FIRST SHOP KEEPER...JUST IMAGE U R HIM....WHEN THE SECOND KEEPER ASK FOR REPLACEMENT, IMAGINE U GIVE HIM 1000 RS FROM UR VALET....BAS THIS IS THE LOSS.....U HADNT LOSSED ANYTHING BY SELLING THE PRODUCT AS U HAVE ANYWAY KEPT THE BALANCE 200 WITH U......
SUKU007
SUKU007 · Aug 31, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
DONT GET MORE TWISTED WITH BY THE TWISTED QUESTION....
QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE LOSS OF THE FIRST SHOP KEEPER...JUST IMAGE U R HIM....WHEN THE SECOND KEEPER ASK FOR REPLACEMENT, IMAGINE U GIVE HIM 1000 RS FROM UR VALET....BAS THIS IS THE LOSS.....U HADNT LOSSED ANYTHING BY SELLING THE PRODUCT AS U HAVE ANYWAY KEPT THE BALANCE 200 WITH U......
SUKU007
SUKU007 · Aug 31, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
DONT GET MORE TWISTED WITH BY THE TWISTED QUESTION....
QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE LOSS OF THE FIRST SHOP KEEPER...JUST IMAGE U R HIM....WHEN THE SECOND KEEPER ASK FOR REPLACEMENT, IMAGINE U GIVE HIM 1000 RS FROM UR VALET....BAS THIS IS THE LOSS.....U HADNT LOSSED ANYTHING BY SELLING THE PRODUCT AS U HAVE ANYWAY KEPT THE BALANCE 200 WITH U......
SUKU007
SUKU007 · Aug 31, 2016
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Ankita Katdare
All mixed answers. No one knows the correct solution it seems.
DONT GET MORE TWISTED WITH BY THE TWISTED QUESTION....
QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE LOSS OF THE FIRST SHOP KEEPER...JUST IMAGE U R HIM....WHEN THE SECOND KEEPER ASK FOR REPLACEMENT, IMAGINE U GIVE HIM 1000 RS FROM UR VALET....BAS THIS IS THE LOSS.....U HADNT LOST ANYTHING BY SELLING THE PRODUCT AS U HAVE ANYWAY KEPT THE BALANCE 200 WITH U......
Kavya sree Reddy
Kavya sree Reddy · Sep 29, 2016
Rank D3 - MASTER
Ankita Katdare
A friend asked me this question, the other day -

A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
The lady gives him Rs. 1000 note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps Rs. 200 for himself and returns Rs. 800 to the lady.
Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the Rs. 1000 note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.
How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face?

The answers that people came up with were - Rs. 1000, Rs. 2000, Rs. 1800, Rs. 1200 and Rs. 800

If you are going to reply with an answer, please provide a detailed solution.
2000
Kavya sree Reddy
Kavya sree Reddy · Sep 29, 2016
Rank D3 - MASTER
Ankita Katdare
A friend asked me this question, the other day -

A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
The lady gives him Rs. 1000 note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps Rs. 200 for himself and returns Rs. 800 to the lady.
Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the Rs. 1000 note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.
How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face?

The answers that people came up with were - Rs. 1000, Rs. 2000, Rs. 1800, Rs. 1200 and Rs. 800

If you are going to reply with an answer, please provide a detailed solution.
HERE
Ankita Katdare
A friend asked me this question, the other day -

A lady buys goods worth Rs. 200 from a shop. (shopkeeper is selling the goods with zero profit).
The lady gives him Rs. 1000 note. The shopkeeper gets the change from the next shop and keeps Rs. 200 for himself and returns Rs. 800 to the lady.
Later the shopkeeper of the next shop comes with the Rs. 1000 note saying "duplicate" and takes his money back.
How much LOSS did the shopkeeper face?

The answers that people came up with were - Rs. 1000, Rs. 2000, Rs. 1800, Rs. 1200 and Rs. 800

If you are going to reply with an answer, please provide a detailed solution.
HERE she buyed with rs200 and she took rs800 she was gained with 1000 and the shopkeeper beside says that its was a dooplicate note so he again loss1000
so he totally loss 2000rs
S Kalyanasundaram
S Kalyanasundaram · Feb 22, 2018
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
Assume shopkeeper A had Rs 1000 note. The lady gives him Rs 1000 fake and since he does not have change he gets it from the next shop B by giving the fake note. He gets 1000 out of which he gives 800 to the lady and keeps 200 with him. Now he has 1200 cash with him. Shopkeeper B says it is fake note.so he gives 1000 that he had. He is now left with rs 200 which is the cost of the goods he bought. So his loss is 1000.
Abunaseer
Abunaseer · Feb 23, 2018
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Ankita Katdare
Rs. 1200
latharaj
latharaj · May 2, 2018
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
i think the answer would be 2000/-.
i:e, 200rs worth item+ 800rs cash back to the lady + 1000rs cash to the shopkeeper.
Mohammed Ismail
Mohammed Ismail · Sep 16, 2018
Rank E1 - BEGINNER

I'm asking one simple question  Who gave 800rs to the lady and 1000 rs for the second shopkeeper

Supriti Kumar
Supriti Kumar · Sep 22, 2018
Rank E1 - BEGINNER

The answer is 2000. Goods worth 200+800 that already given to the lady+1000 for the duplicate note

Sudhakar shenoy
Sudhakar shenoy · Dec 13, 2018
Rank E1 - BEGINNER

Thank you. 

Advaita Homes
Advaita Homes · Dec 13, 2018
Rank D3 - MASTER

so what is the final answer ?

Kavya Burramolla
Kavya Burramolla · Dec 26, 2019
Rank C1 - EXPERT

Loss for the shopkeeper is : 

200(goods worth)+ 800(change he returned to lady) = 1000/-

Also point to be noted, the other shopkeeper has come saying it’s a duplicate note and takes away the original 1000/- note so now the shopkeeper has to return the 1000/- to the other shopkeeper which in turn makes a loss of 1000/- 


so the total loss the shopkeeper had was 2000/-

Jai Patel
Jai Patel · Dec 27, 2019
Rank C3 - EXPERT

Since there is no profit or loss, loss of product would be= Rs. 200 (Cost of Purchase)

Need to pay the person who returned duplicate Note to 

the shopkeeper                                                                = Rs. 1,000

The shopkeeper return Rs. 800 to the buyer who gave 

Rs.1,000 note which was duplicate                                  = Rs.   800

                                                                                         -------------

Total Loss************************************************= Rs. 2,000

PaulzOu GaMiNg
PaulzOu GaMiNg · Apr 16, 2020
Rank E2 - BEGINNER

The right answer is 800rs...

The shopkeeper didn't loss anything to the lady.

Think it carefully...the shopkeeper return 800rs real money plus goods of 200rs to the lady...and keep 200rs real money with him...

When the neighbor come back for his own money which is 1000rs..the shopkeeper took 1000rs from his pocket and give it to the neighbor..at this point,the shopkeeper loss 1000rs... because he gives his money...

Even though the shopkeeper gives his 1000 from his pocket..he still have 200rs with him..when we minus that (1000-200)he losses only 800rs.. 

He didn't loss 1000rs because that 200rs is a real money from the neighbor itself..also that 200rs is the price of the goods from the lady ...

So, the shopkeeper loss 800rs in total.

(1000-200=800)

PaulzOu GaMiNg
PaulzOu GaMiNg · Apr 16, 2020
Rank E2 - BEGINNER
  • The right answer is 800rs...

The shopkeeper didn't loss anything to the lady.

Think it carefully...the shopkeeper return 800rs real money plus goods of 200rs to the lady...and keep 200rs real money with him...

When the neighbor come back for his own money which is 1000rs..the shopkeeper took 1000rs from his pocket and give it to the neighbor..at this point,the shopkeeper loss 1000rs... because he gives his money...

Even though the shopkeeper gives his 1000 from his pocket..he still have 200rs with him..when we minus that (1000-200)he losses only 800rs.. 

He didn't loss 1000rs because that 200rs is a real money from the neighbor itself..also that 200rs is the price of the goods from the lady ...

So, the shopkeeper loss 800rs in total.

(1000-200=800)

Ramani Aswath
Ramani Aswath · Apr 17, 2020
Rank A1 - PRO

Not quite. Rs.200 is real money for which he gave goods of equal value, which cancels out. He paid out Rs.1000 to the other to take back the fake note.

All that happened is that one fake note changed hands. The loss is the value of that note.

536-Saipriya Reddy
536-Saipriya Reddy · Sep 8, 2020
Rank E2 - BEGINNER

1000 Rs is wrong answer why because after selling 200 Rs to the customer he will get some profit on that 200. So the answer in between 800 to 1000

 

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