CEdoot - Reincarnation of CE-im

That was quick, Prady 😁

CS/IT Gods - Let's get this done!

Alright, the project is back! Good. Nice idea regarding the quick query forums and such. Looks like theres quite a number of features in the client. Are we still following the p2p option, or do we need to utilize a web and a directory server?

by the way, what does "doot" mean here? Because I checked the urban dictionary online, and quite shocked with possible meanings.. lol! Perhaps we should modify it a little.. *ahem*

Looks like Prady has adopted a Hindi-Word. 'Doot' in Hindi (or Sanskrit too? maybe) means 'The Messenger'. Let's not worry about the name of the messenger. Probably, 'Doot' can be the code-name for the project 😉

Gr8! to hear that all of my suggestions to Pradeep while my interview for Know your CE'an is working atlast...we will surely be on the top once all those ..becomes reality! i promise u all 😁

The_Big_KLooks like Prady has adopted a Hindi-Word. 'Doot' in Hindi (or Sanskrit too? maybe) means 'The Messenger'. Let's not worry about the name of the messenger. Probably, 'Doot' can be the code-name for the project 😉

Ah, I see! That makes sense, hehe 😀

But to avoid an international misunderstanding incident (you'll understand me 100% if you come across the urban online dictionary) lets tweak it a little teeny bit 😉

@J2R: Its Prateek J2R.
@Prady: The project seems to look good on paper. Now we have to make it even better.

Let's wait for Mayank & Pradeep's update on the same. Let's first finalize on the features, and get started.

ashAre we still following the p2p option, or do we need to utilize a web and a directory server?

Even for p2p, I believe we will require some kind of registrar server, somewhere; may be on one of the ever live clients itself.

It's too early to talk on this stuff. We can decide upon the architecture once we finalize on the "must implement" features.

ashby the way, what does "doot" mean here? Because I checked the urban dictionary online, and quite shocked with possible meanings.. lol! Perhaps we should modify it a little.

You are right, probably we need to change it for the larger community. I should have checked urban dictionary. Thanks for pointing out...😀

Hey good to see quick replies to this thread. Doot is a good name, till the beta version is rolled out. If there is a google, if there is a zattoo, there can be a doot too. Lets call it a "project Doot"

One or two things from me:
1. We need to have the classification of engineering branches and expertise on the query forum. For that we will have to add few fields in the personal information tab on the profile section. Right now no one is posting their expertise and years of experience in their profile. This will help in a way that suppose I have a doubt in some topic on pollutions, I could find the current online or most popular chemical or environmental engineer whom I can post a query. Alternatively, as prady had suggested, if I'm an expert in 'XYZ', I will get a scrolling marque of latest queries on my forum. I'm only highlighting Prady's point.

2. Lets not limit the search engine to CE. we can have a customized google search engine too.

3. The query forum can be open to public. People can see the queries, the number of experts, their nicknames but not the answers. Neither can they contact them directly, unless they register.

4. Some thing you all forgot is developing the invite members thread.

Gee... there are so many things to talk.

mayurpathakHey good to see quick replies to this thread. Doot is a good name, till the beta version is rolled out. If there is a google, if there is a zattoo, there can be a doot too. Lets call it a "project Doot"

One or two things from me:
1. We need to have the classification of engineering branches and expertise on the query forum. For that we will have to add few fields in the personal information tab on the profile section. Right now no one is posting their expertise and years of experience in their profile. This will help in a way that suppose I have a doubt in some topic on pollutions, I could find the current online or most popular chemical or environmental engineer whom I can post a query. Alternatively, as prady had suggested, if I'm an expert in 'XYZ', I will get a scrolling marque of latest queries on my forum. I'm only highlighting Prady's point.

2. Lets not limit the search engine to CE. we can have a customized google search engine too.

3. The query forum can be open to public. People can see the queries, the number of experts, their nicknames but not the answers. Neither can they contact them directly, unless they register.

4. Some thing you all forgot is developing the invite members thread.

Gee... there are so many things to talk.

My friend, you are really insistent on that code name, eh? lol!

For point number 1, I'm not really too sure. Remember, we want to give everyone a chance to respond to a specific question, regardless of their discipline or years of experience. As long as the person posts in the correct sections, the "experts" of the field will be able to respond to it, and at the same time, others who are subscribed to the sections well be notified of the posting as well.

Thinking about the "quick query" feature:

Suppose someone does ask a question, and other CE member engages with a one-on-one conversation. This goes on for about 30 mins, and other CE member joins in. Will the third person be able to view the chat transcript history? Will it be dynamically updated as the convo continues? So far, if you join group conversations in Yahoo or IM, a new invitee would be unaware of what was discussed before.

Also, will there be a risk of duplicated roles with the quick query forum and the rest of the forums? Or do they coexist together (ie. threads that were discussed through the IM will have a label on it)?

ashThinking about the "quick query" feature:

Suppose someone does ask a question, and other CE member engages with a one-on-one conversation. This goes on for about 30 mins, and other CE member joins in. Will the third person be able to view the chat transcript history? Will it be dynamically updated as the convo continues? So far, if you join group conversations in Yahoo or IM, a new invitee would be unaware of what was discussed before.

I think, the third person should be allowed to view the chat transcript. Let's list this under "good to have" features. I think we can do without this in the begining.

ashAlso, will there be a risk of duplicated roles with the quick query forum and the rest of the forums? Or do they coexist together (ie. threads that were discussed through the IM will have a label on it)?

Things might be confusing for the members if they co-exist. We need to put some check for duplication. We can have these roles manually moderated in the begining till the time we have some automation in place.

Labelling is a good idea, even if we use it just for the sake of collecting some statistics rather than checking duplication.

ashFor point number 1, I'm not really too sure. Remember, we want to give everyone a chance to respond to a specific question, regardless of their discipline or years of experience. As long as the person posts in the correct sections, the "experts" of the field will be able to respond to it, and at the same time, others who are subscribed to the sections well be notified of the posting as well.

Yes I agree. But for some one to search the experts, how is he supposed to know whom to contact? And again, getting notifications via mail will not serve much purpose. Even now we get notifications. But the help doesn't come on a real time. Just posting the query on the correct section will not help. We will have to give the user a choice to send his query either as an off line message or as a mail to the experts of his choice. So for him to make a choice, we will need to have the details about expertise and experience. For ex. no body knows you can build a robot ;-) So if you put it in your profile, people will know whom to contact 😁

mayurpathakYes I agree. But for some one to search the experts, how is he supposed to know whom to contact? And again, getting notifications via mail will not serve much purpose. Even now we get notifications. But the help doesn't come on a real time. Just posting the query on the correct section will not help. We will have to give the user a choice to send his query either as an off line message or as a mail to the experts of his choice. So for him to make a choice, we will need to have the details about expertise and experience. For ex. no body knows you can build a robot ;-) So if you put it in your profile, people will know whom to contact 😁

Ah yes, thats an interesting point! 😀

However, to involve interaction and participation, one should not search for the experts for help.. but the experts should search to help the one 😉

Its more flexible that way too. Lets say one asks a question regarding robotics. This question should be like a "beacon", and any experts online will receive notice about it. Those members who choose to receive "robotics" questions will also be notified. So when the question pops up, the experts who are available and know how to answer the question with select it and enter the "chat" mode (either one-on-one or group mode). You'll end up with the asker, and interesting experts who are willing to answer the question.

The fact that we have thousands of members will make it quite hard for the asker to choose a specific few to ask. If I did put "Robotics" in my profile, and someone asks me about applications of Theory of Machines in robotics, I would be like.. "Sorry, can't help you. 😔 I only know how to use Microcontrollers and such. Please ask another expert. Perhaps Expert A?"

What problems to do you see here?
1. I was not able to help, and the asker would have to find others to ask.
2. I do not know EVERY robotic expert who is able to answer that query successfully. Expert A may know, or he may not. If not, the search goes on.
3. If there indeed was a "search" option for finding experts, what is the criteria to choose the expert(s)? Are we to segregate members by number of posts, number of years of experience, etc?
4. If I was offline, I might be busy with some work.. so I would not be able to respond to the question. The asker would feel ignored and frustrated, and will think I never help people *sniff*

If all the experts see the questions that are related to their interests, only they know themselves if they can help. I think instead of relying on profile information, we should leave it to CE Members to choose what types of disciplines and trades that interest them, and receive those prompts. Kind of like how things are now with the forums.

Okay, thats it for now. I hope I make sense 😛

Ah! now I understand your point. Probably we are putting the same point forward, but in different forms. I can visualize the IM in front of me and I'm just putting the points here, as in the functionalities that I can see.

Your point 3 and 4 are valid. Probably we need more brainstorming. Can we have a conference call for a discussion on one of the weekends? I can set up.

raj87verma88@J2R: Its Prateek J2R.



so many to remeber...thanx😒

mayurpathakAh! now I understand your point. Probably we are putting the same point forward, but in different forms. I can visualize the IM in front of me and I'm just putting the points here, as in the functionalities that I can see.

Your point 3 and 4 are valid. Probably we need more brainstorming. Can we have a conference call for a discussion on one of the weekends? I can set up.

Haha, yea! Maybe you should do a rough design of the GUI on MS Paint or Inkscape (or just on paper). Thats a good way to see what functions are needed to do what, etc, without the need to know the technical details. Of course, some purists might disagree with that approach 😛

How about we have an online conference this Saturday or the next? We can have a follow up meeting for all the points that have been discussed in the CE Meet.

Anywayz, we should probably list down objectives and milestones for this project soon. As Prady has mentioned, a case study of existing open source clients would be great for research!

Well CEdoot is a nice concept,afterreading it members of CE will regularly updated about the happenings in CE,watever I think we should allow push-mail services for CEans to be connected even on the move vis thier cell-phone!!!

22nd June to 24th June...4 days and so much discussion! It is going forward!

I am subscribing to this thread...no ideas for now though. Ash, Mayur had a good point on Query and 'Beacon' method..."just post your questions ... and someone will answer it."

We may need good filtering for it too, dont want 10 messages on ""hai please can you suggest a good seminar topic" to flood my IM.


===EDIT===

Updated CE Lab CE-IM page (main page for CE Labs: celab.tk) :

#-Link-Snipped-#

Word to word copy...

Ash, is it possible to give prady access to edit it? by giving @crazyengineers.com (google) account?

====EDIT 2 Important===

As for publishing our own software like CE-IM or CE-something....we can use sourceforge OR Google Code.

I have made a test Google code page which you may/may not like...

The test page has:

1. Main Project page
2. Download section
3. A Wiki section
4. Issue tracking or bug tracking
5. Source Code display
6. Developers

A file is uploaded by me there. Download it for a surprise! It is a CE Installation package to distribute our programs, distributing on linux will be looked at later.
Has been tested on Vista and looking for results on other windows platforms

#-Link-Snipped-#

Give feedback so we know what we really want.

CE-IM project page by Varun.

It looks great #-Link-Snipped-#

Oh, only Biggie can give those @crayzengineers.com addresses. I was thinking we should create a new role on CE called "Project leaders", so they can have those addresses to access the CE Lab site (or create more GS sites). Lets see what Biggie thinks when the website revamp is complete 😀

Btw guys, please don't forget to read Desijay's previous post. Lots of valuable information!
#-Link-Snipped-#

Varun, excellent work. Although I'm a null when it comes to software programming, I'm involved in making business cases. So I have a tiny winy bit idea about what you guys discuss here. Just one question, any reason for selecting python? Wiki suggested that google, Youtube et all use it. Is it easier? The reason I'm asking is because we might have general CEans wanting to work on this project later on. So we should not come to a situation where people are turned down because they don't know python.

Anyway, Ash regarding your query about email ids. There is no harm in giving email ids to every one. The only issue is currently they are limited in number. We are exploring possibility of coming up with '.org' mail ids. We will surely give it away then on. As of now, all those necessarily require the email ids will be given.

Yep, its only the limited number that I'm worried about, since we have thousands of members! Such scarcity, haha. Looking forward for the .org address. Lots of CEans would appreciated it for sure!

Python is only an option. However, it is a much easier language to learn than C, C++ and Java. It'll allow non-Computer members to contribute as well after a little practice. Its also highly portable, meaning Python can be used in many places. That flexibility is quite useful. Of course, those hardcore programmers can still stick to C and the like. Python coexists with them.

... so folks, don't be scared of it. Doesn't bite! 😉

@Mayur: Thanks for your feedback! Well, Python is not selected for any one project in particular. The installation I gave on cecode (Google Code space) is an example of how we can/might publish our finished work (the installation process and method and logo *wink*), just the demo program was written in Python. CE-IM can be any lang preferred by its head developer (Java/C/C++/etc...).

And dont worry if you aint familier with programing, we need common sense contribution by common users of the program too! 😀 The end users are the ones who will use CE-IM.

@Prady: Thanks dude, its like an archiver for this project documenting everything technical and stuff. As for accounts with open source project hosting like sourcefourge and google code, i'd recommend it but in the end its the choice of the project head (I aint programing this!... CE-IM is a big project.)

@Ash: You are our boss in managing the accounts 😁, You can request him for user email ID's and make it easier, for those who are contributing and want to "edit" and "add" pro actively. (We gotta look for some way...)


So who is and when are we starting the CE-IM?

Email IDs won't be a problem for those who are seriously willing to work on the project. Ash, could you please give me the list of CEans who need a CE Mail ID?

[PS: We'll soon release crazyengineers.org email ids for everyone.]

xheavenlyx@Mayur: T
And dont worry if you aint familiar with programing, we need common sense contribution by common users of the program too! 😀 The end users are the ones who will use CE-IM.

He he... Don't worry about common sense. I have been dealing with Biggie for too long now.😎 I have common sense in abundance. Thats the only thing you need with him. 😉

Well regarding the CE-IM project, somebody has to hone the project manager responsibility. And xHx, there is no stepping out for you by the way. Of course prady is there too. Can we decide between you, prady and ash? :roll😔Sorry for keeping out Mayank and pradeepagrawal because CE is not accessible in their offices) 😡

PradeepAgrawal can access through CE. Mayank should get CE access soon. Now, we need volunteers to take care of this project. Volunteers, anyone?

I guess let's get started with the coading part - other things will evolve. This is of course not a project that's going to be executed the way its done in 'professional organizations'.

Oh, are we forgetting Kidakaka? Kidakaka - where are you? 😀

The_Big_KPradeepAgrawal can access through CE. Mayank should get CE access soon. Now, we need volunteers to take care of this project. Volunteers, anyone?

Lets post an announcement on the front page.

Yes, that's not a problem. However, we need to have some development first. The core members who're thinking of developing CE should come up with something - so that others can join in to develop it further.

That's what I believe. All we have for now is just a discussion thread. Mayur - we can even announce this through our newsletter to ensure maximum reach. However, we need to have 'something' in place!

[Otherwise, I fear, the 'too many cooks' thing will happen]

In line with the "too many cooks", can't really list anyone yet until they are keen to volunteer! We'd have to also see their activity in the project threads to know if they are dedicated and willing to edit stuff at CE Labs. Some would prefer to just contribute content to the forums without wanting to edit stuff.

I don't mind anyone who discussed the CE:IM during the CE Meet be the project head for CE: IM. Xhx is already head of CE Bot. I can provide support for them both 😉

To kick start the project, we need objectives and targets. Doesnt need to be too detailed.. but just a framework to build upon as it project goes along.

By the way, why would CE be banned in offices? Is it really affecting productivity? 😛

mayurpathakJust one question, any reason for selecting python? Wiki suggested that google, Youtube et all use it. Is it easier?

It started as a scripting language and as of today is used for lot of web development; thanks to the frameworks developed by open source community. It has got a Java interface by name Jython.

The_Big_KHowever, we need to have some development first. The core members who're thinking of developing CE should come up with something - so that others can join in to develop it further.

True, we need to have the basic material ready and checked-in to some online code repository. May be google-project or source-forge services can be used.

Ok, simply put here are my thoughts:

1. I cannot (extensively) contribute to CE-IM as one I am not a veteran programmer regarding online services and secondly ... its just too much for something we (I?) might rarely use. No offense its just a personal thought 😀 I use yahoo and its pretty darn good.

2. Another thing came up recently and has been taking my time is...get READY... Firefox 3 localization. As you have seen we have Gujarati and Punjabi translations on the download page but no Hindi and no Maratthi and no Bangali (surprising aint it) and not even Malay!! Ash 😁. yes there is a Add-on but for FF2. Now, THATS a project I am willing to sweat for. (your thoughts)


3. @Prady: I have already created the test site on Google Code which is the same as a Sourceforge page. #-Link-Snipped-#
check it out and give feedback on its main thread I had created or here: #-Link-Snipped-#

mayurpathak3. If the project is to kick off, its popularity and arranging for sponsorships, advertisements and funds (if needed) can be taken up by me.

The CE Bot is a pretty active project, and requires quite a number of equipment and materials.

*hint hint*

😛

ashThe CE Bot is a pretty active project, and requires quite a number of equipment and materials.

*hint hint*

😛

Sure... prepare a plan and send it across. Tell me what type of cooperation you need, I will share it with all whom I know. I'm quite confident of arranging the funds. Just that the plan and the schedule of the entire project has to be robust.

mayurpathakSure... prepare a plan and send it across. Tell me what type of cooperation you need, I will share it with all whom I know. I'm quite confident of arranging the funds. Just that the plan and the schedule of the entire project has to be robust.

Really?? 😁😁😁

This is great news! I'll discuss with xhx regarding the plan. We'll update the CE Bot content beforehand, though.

@ xhx

Ah, that localization project would be interesting 😀

Wow😀 Look at us. We are talking about one project on a rival project page 😁 lol (just kiddin dont fire me for this), CE bot is a active project.

We have to form the information in a bit more comprehensive way, so others can understand where its going and how.

Ash is doing wireless testing, and I am looking into the main brain of CE Bot, but I will need a LOT more help later. It can easily go out of hand (tempting to put in a lot of stuff that can be hell to program later).

Im gonna update the CE Bot Page soon and maybe even condense it as we were planning.

So yea, mayur you keep an eye on the lab, we will give a overview soon. And yes we have to SERIOUSLY think of MORE good projects. I am itching to see the CE Bot being built.

As for Localization, I think its a very heavy project since you have to be committed to it. As soon as I get more info from the Indian guy who initially had the project I can introduce it here, someone can take over it or something lets see. And Ash, you can think for Malay 😀

I'm still configuring the webcam streaming between two computers over a wireless LAN channel, using VideoLAN VLC (yes, the same multi-codec video player). It seems I might need a 3rd computer to act as a "server", so I'm figuring out a way to bypass that option.

The omni antenna is not complete yet. I'll be going back to uni, and gonna borrow the equipment I need 😀

*ahem* sorry to hijack this thread with CE Bot stuff! 😛

So... when are we starting CE-IM?

*bumps*

Hello CEaaaans??! *echoes in the valley*

Been a while since we had any activity. Anyways, I'm pretty sure we have many CEans who have the skills that are needed for this project.

If any of you are interested in developing the CE Instant Messenger, all you need to do is post on this thread 😀

We need:
- Programmers (any languages)
- Graphical artists (to design GUI)
- Testers
- Suggesters (anyone who has a suggestion 😉 )

Hopefully soon, we can set the objectives in concrete, as well as create the milestones!

ashBeen a while since we had any activity. Anyways, I'm pretty sure we have many CEans who have the skills that are needed for this project.

Yeah but sadly people are more interested discussing movies and stuff like that. But I'm determined not to let this initiative fall by the way side. I'm sure my reply will go to all who were involved in the original discussion.

ashIf any of you are interested in developing the CE Instant Messenger, all you need to do is post on this thread 😀

We need:
- Programmers (any languages)
- Graphical artists (to design GUI)
- Testers
- Suggesters (anyone who has a suggestion 😉 )

Ok now here is my plan. I had a word with my sister yesterday (PS: She is into her final year of Computer Science Engineering). She spoke about the project she will be doing and was unhappy that she didn't get an industry project (live project). Taking a cue from there, I think we can lure some such engineers to do our CE IM. I can volunteer to go to a college and ask for Engineers... for free. I'm sure this is not a big deal. And I'm sure we can wrap this project within 4-5 months

ashHopefully soon, we can set the objectives in concrete, as well as create the milestones!

I need a concrete plan to be prepared before that. Can any of us do it?

Guys please reply!

I hope I can help count me in programmers, graphical, testers & suggester 😁

MaRoI hope I can help count me in programmers, graphical, testers & suggester 😁

Good to know that. Where are others?

*raising his hand up* programmer!

Excellent. We already have two programmers plus Ash. I think Biggie will manage the testing part. I will take care of the functionalities and the look and feel (probably might involve KJ)

So where is the document expert? Some one needs to prepare use cases.

I'm game for everything - coding, graphics, testing, suggesting, funding ( 😁 ) etc.

[Btw, are we going to need funds for the CE - IM? Let's start a CE Labs fund? ]

Well, seems programming work will be made in Saudi Arabia 😁

Excellent stuff. By the way we will need $0000.0000 funding to start with 😁

All I need is 2 hrs of your time daily, your skill and your computer 😀

@Ash, maro: guys can you prepare a project flow document? As in where do we start, what do we need and who will be needed when. I know a senior person who could be our project guide. But we need to do quick. Send me by mail. How much time will it take?

bayazidahmed*raising his hand up* programmer!

Atta boy! Welcome to the gang!

Yay, good to see responses! Thanks for volunteering, guys 😀

Ah, I'm hoping we can coordinate with Prady regarding the program flow chart. Is there anyway to get in touch with him? I'll work on something this weekend, hopefully.

Any of you familiar with UML modelling tools? Might be useful to develop the CE: IM. Here's an example:

#-Link-Snipped-#

*Knock Knock*

People sleeping again! Can we have the flow chart? Me and Biggie had a good discussion over this project recently. We believe some one will have to at least conceive the software architecture, if not design it. But I don't see any one who has volunteered for this.

Anyway, can we have the flow chart at least?

Also, if I list down the functionalities, and get the use cases done with help from some one (one of you), can you guys start writing the code?

PS: Pardon me if I was wrong, I'm ZERO in technology!

Ash's Simple Flowchart diagram:

                              [U][B]START[/B][/U] 
                               |
                Discuss functionality of CE:IM 
                               |
                        Delegate tasks
                               |
    Develop algorithms of each functions in pseudo code
                               |
         Deliberate and evaluate the algorithms
                               | 
     Develop prototype algorithms in C/C++/Java etc..
                               |
                Integrate all functions together
                               |
                         Test and debug
                               |
                               [U][B]END[/B][/U]

*grin*

Thats the very basic one. I think those in the software industry has more accurate flowcharts for software development.

Missing Step: Find passionate enthusiasts who are willing to develop the messenger.

😔 - Where do we get those?