CrazyEngineers Archive
Old, but evergreen and popular discussions on CrazyEngineers, presented to you in read-only mode.
@sachleen • 27 Apr, 2011
can anyone tel me why can't electricity be stored???? wht'z the actual reason behind it...??
@Mr.Don • 27 Apr, 2011 Because electricity is produced when there is power = current = flow of electrons.

1.Hence there will be no electricity with out flow of charge

2. We hadn't designed a material to store electricity

may be both these reasons and many more to contribute for your question..
@hexreader • 27 Apr, 2011 If I remember correctly, electricity CAN be stored.

All you need is a ring of superconducting wire, and current can flow around the superconductor forever, ready to be recovered when wanted.

The downsides are:
1 This requires a lot of power to keep the superconductor at a low enough temperature to stay superconducting.
2 Superconductors tend to have imperfections, which causes temperature rises and gradual loss of the stored electricity.
3 This is very expensive, and uses a lot of resources. Not of much practical use outside of a laboratory.

Of course there are many ways that electricity can be converted to other forms of energy for storage, then back again. This has the same effect as storing electricity, but is not really storing electricity.
@narayana murthy • 28 Apr, 2011
hexreader
If I remember correctly, electricity CAN be stored.

All you need is a ring of superconducting wire, and current can flow around the superconductor forever, ready to be recovered when wanted.

The downsides are:
1 This requires a lot of power to keep the superconductor at a low enough temperature to stay superconducting.
2 Superconductors tend to have imperfections, which causes temperature rises and gradual loss of the stored electricity.
3 This is very expensive, and uses a lot of resources. Not of much practical use outside of a laboratory.

Of course there are many ways that electricity can be converted to other forms of energy for storage, then back again. This has the same effect as storing electricity, but is not really storing electricity.
perfect answer i too agree with you
and conversion of electricity and storing them can be done by transducers but there are some losses in that conversion and we can't make sure that converted energy can be stored for ever
@mithun singh • 28 Apr, 2011 electricity can not be stored because it is generated from the drift of electrons in conductors in one direction....
That is why we can not stored lighting of clouds....
@Kaustubh Katdare • 28 Apr, 2011 I love this topic. What exactly is implied by 'storing electricity'? It's just a form of energy. It exists everywhere in the universe.
@sachleen • 28 Apr, 2011 yah true.... The.big k...
@gohm • 29 Apr, 2011 Is not a battery a device for storing electricity?
@narayana murthy • 29 Apr, 2011
gohm
Is not a battery a device for storing electricity?
ofcourse it stores in the form of chemical energy if we consider small batteries but they can't hold for long time and we can't even store high amount of energy
@Harshad Italiya • 29 Apr, 2011
gohm
Is not a battery a device for storing electricity?
I too thinking the same as we are using battery can't we say that it is a electricity storage. 😐
@ABCD ABCD • 29 Apr, 2011 Acc to me even, superconductors - as mentioned above can also not store electricity.
@hexreader : Any Sources?
@sachleen • 29 Apr, 2011 yah u r right GF....bt as NM has said it can't store high amount of energy..........
@narayana murthy • 29 Apr, 2011
sachleen
yah u r right GF....bt as NM has said it can't store high amount of energy..........
yes just see examples where we are using batteries
they are having less power so, we are using alternate power supplies if we consider inverters or oil generators they work as alternate energy power sources if we are having power cuts
if we considers batteries in remotes and torch lights as they consume less power chemical reaction energy is sufficient to run them so they are used
so, in my view batteries can't save much energy as there is a statement
"if we can store electricity there is no problem in the world for electricity"
and many can ask is batteries in remotes store energy my ans is no they are generating electricity from chemical reaction its just a conversion not storing
@PraveenKumar Purushothaman • 29 Apr, 2011 Why can't we use a magnetic force to store electricity? Anywayz, both are the couples right?
@gohm • 29 Apr, 2011 Ah yes, but isn't that just a limit in technology only?

narayana murthy
ofcourse it stores in the form of chemical energy if we consider small batteries but they can't hold for long time and we can't even store high amount of energy
@PraveenKumar Purushothaman • 29 Apr, 2011 Hey what about lead acid batteries? There are many such ones storing a maximum amount of values. I have seen batteries storing 110V DC... 😲
@hexreader • 29 Apr, 2011
mreccentric
Acc to me even, superconductors - as mentioned above can also not store electricity.
@hexreader : Any Sources?
Going by memory, this was discussed on BBC Horizon program many years ago when superconductors first became a popular topic.

There was no specific claim that electricity can be stored in a superconducter, but it was stated that a current can flow forever in a superconducting ring.

I guess it is all down to definition as to whether I am right to claim that this is "storage of electricity"

Do you have any evidence that electricity cannot be stored?

Does storage of electricity depend upon how you define "storage of electricity", in which case a battery might well fit the definition.

...or is there some fundamental "truth" about electricity storage, which transcends definition?

I would suggest that a battery fits the common person's definition of an electricity storage device already.

I would further suggest that what I imagine a Theoretical Physicist's purist definition of electricity storage might be, would have an answer of "unknown", since there is still so much that is not understood about the fundamental laws that govern the universe (or universes).

EDIT: Just spotted this link that states the theory of current flowing in a ring for somewhere between "100,000" years and "the lifetime of the universe"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconductivity
@Saandeep Sreerambatla • 29 Apr, 2011 According to the question , Is it you are asking to store electricity somewhere as if we are storing water in dams and canals?

If yes its an interesting topic and I dont know the answer!

But storing in other sense is to store coal, Oil or gas which generates electricity on demand.

To make my answer simple, Electricity is a by product of a process, like steam from water!

So if you need steam you heat water and if you need electricity you just generate it.
@Saandeep Sreerambatla • 29 Apr, 2011 And electricity is something which flows , so storing it?
@ISHAN TOPRE • 29 Apr, 2011 I have a simple idea of storing electricity. And the idea is store it in some different form. What say people?

I will go simple.

Do you know how hydroelectricity is generated? "Water falling on turbine thing" right? Why not take water from lower to higher altitude( The reverse way) by using the electricity which we want to store?

Whenever we want/require that electricity we can again generate it. Isn't it awesome?

One of the thing is of course Superconductors.
@hexreader • 29 Apr, 2011 I took the OP's original question as asking whether it is theoretically possible to store electricity (still in the form of electricity).
This link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconductivity seems to suggest that current can be stored. I will let someone else decide whether storing current is the same thing as storing electricity.

Others seem to have taken the question to be asking whether it is practical to store mains electricity in viable quantities, which I would certainly agree is already sucessfully done at many Hydroelectric plants.
@ABCD ABCD • 29 Apr, 2011 @above, hydroelectric plant - 'storing mains electricity through increasing potential of water' - a good idea.
@hexreader,
Just spotted this link that states the theory of current flowing in a ring for somewhere between "100,000" years and "the lifetime of the universe"
May i know the source for this.
Yes acc to you, its right, but yet its not been developed yet. But truely a good idea.
Where you speaking about this too : Superconducting magnetic energy storage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ??
@narayana murthy • 29 Apr, 2011
praveenscience
Hey what about lead acid batteries? There are many such ones storing a maximum amount of values. I have seen batteries storing 110V DC... 😲
here itself had a limit 110v is not a matter if we take houses they need 230v a.c so i am saying storage is possible but we can't store large amount of energy
@PraveenKumar Purushothaman • 30 Apr, 2011
narayana murthy
here itself had a limit 110v is not a matter if we take houses they need 230v a.c so i am saying storage is possible but we can't store large amount of energy
What if I say 3V DC??? 😛
@narayana murthy • 30 Apr, 2011
praveenscience
What if I say 3V DC??? 😛
lol its too small power
@PraveenKumar Purushothaman • 30 Apr, 2011 Man!!! Its just me saying I have seen that to my knowledge... There may 10000V DC batts exist...
@Ramani Aswath • 30 Apr, 2011 If electricity is already available as such, there is meaning to storing it. However if it is being generated by burning a fuel or in a water turbine , it is much simpler to not produce it at all, thereby conserving fuel or water for use when the demand is more.

The one reason to store electricity is when the load fluctuates too much. In such a case it can make sense to generate at a constant rate, store the excess during the lean load period and release this during peak load period. The trouble is that as of now AC cannot be stored. It has to be converted to DC and stored in batteries and converted back to AC. This is rather wasteful (overall efficiency ~60%) and expensive at present.

Bioramani
@gaurav.bhorkar • 30 Apr, 2011
narayana murthy
here itself had a limit 110v is not a matter if we take houses they need 230v a.c so i am saying storage is possible but we can't store large amount of energy
Connecting batteries in series adds up the voltage. Making higher voltage rated batteries is not an issue I guess.
@PraveenKumar Purushothaman • 30 Apr, 2011
gaurav.bhorkar
Connecting batteries in series adds up the voltage. Making higher voltage rated batteries is not an issue I guess.
Rightly said... What if I make 10 110V DC batts in series and produce 1100V DC??? NM, please answer... It is possible and it is sufficient to run an AC, Fridge, Heater at the same time!!! 😛
@Ramani Aswath • 30 Apr, 2011
praveenscience
Rightly said... What if I make 10 110V DC batts in series and produce 1100V DC??? NM, please answer... It is possible and it is sufficient to run an AC, Fridge, Heater at the same time!!! 😛
What perhaps has to be looked at is the volt-amp-hours. At home we use a 200 amp hour 24 volt battery back up for the inverter. If you have to run common appliances 220 VAC inverter becomes a must. The batteries cost Rs.20,000 and have to be replaced every three years.
Back up power is not cheap. Also, when the power is resumed after a shut down such inverters (Now in almost every home in Bangalore) all come on together creating an artificial high load on the grid.

A scary option is nuclear power.

Bioramani
@PraveenKumar Purushothaman • 01 May, 2011 Finally the conclusion is we have to accept the fate and cannot have a backup power of our own! 😔
@lovejeet • 01 May, 2011 hey, i guess anything in the world can't be stored 4ver, i.e., even the water stored in the dams and storage tanks do evaporate, so in this sense, the electricity can be stored, no matters for a short period of time.😀
@PraveenKumar Purushothaman • 01 May, 2011 Using superconductors, I guess we can do... 😀
@xheavenlyx • 02 May, 2011 Like @Lovejeet and some others have pointed out, it can be stored in other energy forms. Potential Energy (Hydro-, Solar Energy), Chemical Energy (Batteries), Magnetic Field (Superconducting wire, Lorentz force).

The best has been Superconducting Magnetic Energy Storage systems (SMES) but maximum achieved at present has been 20 MW-h with 95% efficiency. This method is extremely expensive and carries a lot of technical challenges.
@varunkumar • 05 May, 2011 we are using battery to store electricity in the form of voltage ?
and when current is drawn from batteries we use electricity in the form of electrical power p = v * i .
@neo23 • 06 Jul, 2011 Ummm guys isnt this thread about storing electricity in charge form.. not rather than chemical form or some other
So cant we store electricity in the form of electrical charge itself..........
In capacitors electrical charge does get stored . right?
So we can store electricity in its true form. Am i right?
@PraveenKumar Purushothaman • 06 Jul, 2011 To an extent right... Even in chemical reactions, there are saturated states na? That's the way electricity is stored in Rechargeable batteries... 😀
@narayana murthy • 06 Jul, 2011 @neo: hey where you went directly we can't store electricity
once see definition of capacitors and inductor clearly then you can observe some thing
i too got same doubt on first year and asked my faculty about whats the need of saving electricity in magnetic form we can save it in capacitors na?
he just laughed and said read definition once i have done and i learn some thing that capacitors only store for a small time period and efficiency of storage also decreases
i answered this then he said you are correct think once if they are doing that maximum amount of electric problems are solved
and i have another justification too
capacitors we are having are not ideal capacitors so they are also having internal resistance to observe that energy
@PraveenKumar Purushothaman • 06 Jul, 2011 Wow!!! That was awesome NM!!! 😀
@Ramani Aswath • 06 Jul, 2011 This article is very informative about why fossil fuels are still the best form of energy storage:
The limits of energy storage technology | Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists
@neo23 • 07 Jul, 2011 @ NM ... Sir.. i get the point that capacitors store charge for a very very short time period. But isnt dat in the case when it is fed by an ac source..
I am talking about the case when a capacitor is fed by a dc source and we can charge it up to the same potential as of the source. And after charging it, even if we disconnect the source , the capacitor holds on the charge. Doesnt it? If not... Kindly clear the doubt... Regards.
@narayana murthy • 07 Jul, 2011 oh so there you confused neo but you missed one thing when we give dc source to capacitor it acts as short circuit so it can't even charge it
@neo23 • 07 Jul, 2011 errr... sir
u are pretty wrong on this
capacitor acts as short in case of ac ... not dc. it offers almost zero impedance for ac supply
It has high impedance to offer for dc supply.
@narayana murthy • 07 Jul, 2011 Capacitors are widely used in electronic circuits for blocking direct current while allowing alternating current to pass, in filter networks, for smoothing the output of power supplies, in the resonant circuits that tune radios to particular frequencies and for many other purposes.
source
wiki link
@narayana murthy • 07 Jul, 2011 hey sorry for that i went wrong though it by thinking in other one yes you are right neo
but when we charge to that level it discharges thats the work but it doesn't store for much time
@praba230890 • 07 Jul, 2011 You are absolutely right Neo. The capacitors were the good storage device for years for lot of purposes. The development of ultra/supercapacitors making the way for good storage devices replacing chemical storage devices. Most of the electric vehicle companies also got a grip on these capacitors to meet their needs. But in capacitors it will be stored in the form of static electricity. I mean only voltage build up without current flow. If you take electricity(current) as a flow of electrons then how could you store a flowing thing. Flowing things always has losses(nothing is ideal in the universe). Although if you try to store the electricity in superconducting loops they will exhaust one day.
If some one take the analogy of storing the flowing water and comparing it with electricity storage. Then sure capacitors were the best match. All it needs is a little imagination. You got to take the every bit if water drop in a river as an electron then the dams were similar to the capacitors. Here the dielectric were the dam walls. Storing water in a dam builds up potential energy which happens while storing in capacitors. (I don't know how to express this out.....may be i got to write an article to explain this clearly)
neo23
@ NM ... Sir.. i get the point that capacitors store charge for a very very short time period. But isnt dat in the case when it is fed by an ac source..
I am talking about the case when a capacitor is fed by a dc source and we can charge it up to the same potential as of the source. And after charging it, even if we disconnect the source , the capacitor holds on the charge. Doesnt it? If not... Kindly clear the doubt... Regards.
@Ramani Aswath • 08 Jul, 2011 Even batteries store electricity as a static charge. In the case of rechargeable cells this is in the form of a reversible chemical reaction. No storage device can store current. The cuurent level of technology is such that ultra/super/mega capacitors all have poor energy density. Internal resistance is high. So loss will be acceptable. They also cost too much. New flexible ceramic batteries promise better economics.
@praba230890 • 08 Jul, 2011 You have a point. But when we talk about storing electricity without any chemical reaction we got to talk about capacitors. It is not converting it into any other form of energy. I think this thread is about this.
bioramani
Even batteries store electricity as a static charge. In the case of rechargeable cells this is in the form of a reversible chemical reaction. No storage device can store current. The cuurent level of technology is such that ultra/super/mega capacitors all have poor energy density. Internal resistance is high. So loss will be acceptable. They also cost too much. New flexible ceramic batteries promise better economics.
@Durgesh Srivastava • 26 Jan, 2020

Electricity cannot itself be stored on any scale, but it can be converted to other forms of energy which can be stored and later reconverted to electricity on demand. Storage systems for electricity include battery, flywheel, compressed air, and pumped hydro storage. very effective storage of energy is achieved in fossil fuels and nuclear fuel, before electricity is generated from them.

@bill yorke • 26 Jan, 2020

It appears we all like electrity. Am fascinated with information available in the thread above, it is all fascinating and relevantly placed. If you want to learn something new stick to the thread above.

anyway, in summary and interms of my understanding; electricity can be stored yes but in other forms. Electricity is only stored inform of energy.



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