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Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Dec 30, 2010

Quality Of Indian Engineers - Is It Degrading?

With engineering colleges popping up in every parts of the country like mushrooms, I seriously doubt whether the overall quality of engineers 'produced' in India is degrading. I personally see all these new colleges as factories where a raw material (a candidate with no passion for engineering) is fed and a candidate labeled as 'engineer' comes out after 4 years of processing (mugging of subjects).

...and we already see that even after 60 years of Independence, India is nowhere near the western or even the eastern world when it comes to technology and engineering. I'm not talking only about 'software' industry, which is all about outsourcing of lesser-importance stuff; but also other industries as well.

I personally believe that the quality of Indian Engineers is degrading and India is only producing people who do as instructed. There is a serious lack of original thinkers, creators, innovators and real engineers.

I might be entirely wrong or just composing this post out of my imagination. I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions.
chirag_kotadia
chirag_kotadia • Dec 30, 2010
I agree you on some points but let me say that talent is a thing which can reveal itself even in the surrounding of numerous people. Even if there may be big number of colleges, Good engineers will be growing on their talent basis. As per me, India is way ahead in terms of innovative engineers in software division and the numbers of outsourcing reveal that thing. Indians have good hand on Mathematics as well. No doubt about that Indians are not getting proper platform in India but still I can see picture of India after 10-15 years with the help of quality engineers.
Correct me anywhere if I am wrong or ambiguous.

Cheers,
Chirag
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Dec 30, 2010
India is way ahead in terms of innovative engineers in software division and the numbers of outsourcing reveal that thing.
Ever wondered what kind of work is outsourced to India? 😀
chirag_kotadia
chirag_kotadia • Dec 30, 2010
Like the software modules which are buggy or need to be build are outsourced to India and our engineers work on that part.
I do not know alot about India or its government style but from what it sounds like to me is the government may be pushing to increase the education level of the country which will give India a greater power base to increase innovation and technical competitiveness on a global scale. I think in every country and age group there will always be cheaters tacking the easy way through life but eventualy the the real hard workers rise to the top and as more and more rise to the top they can set the standards for more improvement. 😀
vik001ind
vik001ind • Dec 30, 2010
I don't think that the overall quality is decreasing due to building up new colleges. We need to build more colleges & universities to cater the needs of the huge population like ours. We are still short of colleges if we compare the ratio of colleges to population w.r.t. other countries. I would like to contrast between innovative engineers & quality of engineeers. It's not necessary that the non-innovative engineers are low on quality. Ratio of innovative to non-innovative engineers is infact decreasing because that's the way things work in India. Due to arrival of large private companies, we have seen a major sweep in placements from colleges which is indeed improving our country's position in world's arena which is the home of the largest population under poverty line. Our country is still a growing country, so it's not wise to think about quality rather than quantity. Engineers who are innovative usually finds their way to entrepreneurship. No one can doubt that within 5 years, there has been an upsurge in entrepreneurs in India who are changing our lives.
shreyasm89
shreyasm89 • Dec 31, 2010
Let us say that the overall quality of engineering education in India is degrading. It is in fact good that the engg. education is being made available to a large no. of people. But increasing the quantity should not be at the cost of quality. A few good engineers are better than a horde of non-enthusiastic, half baked engineers. Innovation is an integral part of engg. The Biggie is right when he says that current engineers are 'trained' to blindly follow something & hence are not able to innovate.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Dec 31, 2010
Of course, there will be quality engineers who'll train themselves and make the most out of available resources. But when we talk about 'overall quality' we've to consider the overall number of engineers produced in India. If the quality wasn't degrading, we'd have seen much more innovation and 'real engineering' (if you know what I mean) coming through India. But sadly, that's not the point. Look at the quality of questions contributed on CE Forum, which I believe gives a good idea of what 'level' students are at. I'm no longer surprised when a 3rd year computer science engineer asks for the difference between interpreter and compiler or even "What is C++?".

The larger the number of engineering colleges does not mean that they'll impart quality education all over. Education is already a 'business'. That's why we don't see anyone really concerned about making real engineers: neither the students nor the teachers. It's alarming.
csiscool
csiscool • Dec 31, 2010
Quality of Indian Engineers is not Degrading as of my view..

If indian engineers is not good, then why MNCs count increasing in india ?

Biggie,rather you can say Indian Engineers are not a good entrepreneurs or innovators, mostly( atleast 40%).

Whatever, Education Institutions should not be run as business rather than Social Service..
Abhishek.Tony
Abhishek.Tony • Jan 7, 2011
Yes, I agree with you The_Big_K, it is the hard truth..
Today most students in India are more attracted towards high salary jobs offered by different companies.
It is because their salary is generally higher than their parents had initially(the decreasing time value of money is generally forgotten about😕), they think of a job as an ultimate goal.
And as the number of private companies increase in India, jobs are available in plenty.
When engineers of other branches join an software company, most of their core studies in college is unused.
And most of them know this, so they develop a mindset of getting a sure job anywhere.
So they complete their Bachelor's degree sans the studies. :hehehe:
Thus having a Bachelor's degree in Engineering becomes a lucrative career for students who don't want to study anymore.:dance:
And finally, the people opening new engineering colleges know this.
st123udent
st123udent • Mar 14, 2012
I agree with The_Big_K. Yes,the quality of education in India is on a low compared to countries like the UK ,US or even Australia.In India quantity matters not the quality.The Indian education system emphasizes on the theoritical aspects rather than the practical skills.Education is the best way to earn money in India.
Many MNC's are hiring loads of candidates because they need to pay less compared to some of the other countries like the US and the designation they provide in majority of the cases is low compared to the candidate's profile.The students are not to be blamed its just the education system in India is poor.
I remember a subject on the processors(8086) in one of my lower sems in engg ,my friend in US ,at the same year had powerpc families,ARM and many other advanced subjects.The truth is we are still far behind many others(not all) as far as technology is concerned but we pretend to be at the top.
There are some genuinly talented people who loses interest in engineering due to the pressure from parents and college.We always follow the "oldschool" method of teaching.
Its the mentality of parents ,especially in the Indian society to say"My son/daughter is working in xyz company".

We need to change in our mindset and think in a practical way so that atleast in the future generation we will have great engineers.(education != scoring marks it is = knowledge and application of this knowledge )
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Mar 14, 2012
st123udent : I wrote a post to address the issues on my blog: https://superblog.crazyengineers.com...-to-a-question-that-haunted-my-mind-for-long/ & https://superblog.crazyengineers.com/2012/03/08/we-were-born-intelligent-the-school-destroyed-us/ . The education system that you're referring to is actually McCaulay introduced system.

But it's sad that India continues to adopt it even after 1947.

I believe ability to learn in one's mother-tongue would make everyone better at sciences, arts and technology.
avii
avii • Mar 30, 2012
I was about to open similar thread, Chetan Bhagat vs N Murthy.

Firstly, no personal grudges on Bhagat, everyone knows he is a media whore & when N M Muthy commented about quality of engineers, his novel 2020 was about to release. He indeed needed publicity. On the other hand, N Murthy is also an ex-IITian.

Well, tbh, I think both are correct, somewhat.

As Murthy said, quality of engineers is indeed degrading. But Infosys itself hires good brains & puts them in IT Solutions [Service Based]. By simple Demand & Supply rule, isn't Infy creating demand for such Engineers ? Nowadays every parents wants their kids to have job in Infy [or any other such companies] If Infy so much cares about Indian Engineers Quality, why not put them to do something productive ? Why not open a new R&D wing ? Infy makes so much money with cheap labour. To impress clients, the deadlines are always short. And I seriously laugh & wonder why do they even need such strict dress code. Again, just to show off pharen clients. Ever wondered why US guys have their work done from us, but not from their people ? Cos, India is known for cheap labour. In US, a person never works overtime for FREE. there's hardly any pressure & everyday they spend time with their families. I read somewhere, when some employee suggested to start a new wing in Gaming, Infosys declined the idea. Why ?

As Bhagat said, Infy is indeed a Bodyshop. Though however Infy has contributed lot to Indian economy & gave jobs to thousands. On other hand, Chetan, who is an IITian, later joined Banking after IIM. Once he was sure, he can fool Indian youths & milk money, he left that job & became full time author. 'Nuf said about Quality of en Engineer. But lets not blame entire IIT brand for one bad worm. I have seen / read about many IITians who indeed contributed lot. But if we overall engineers, the quality is really less. I mean really very less.

IMO why this happening :
  • Peer pressure / Parents - they think Infy [or any such XYZ] are god & the final destination of any engineer.
  • Students lacking proper guidance.
  • Students being lazy & never trying to do things out of box.
  • Our education system. Should be Learning by doing.
  • All the companies who have rebranded this Software Engineer tag.

What say The_Big_K AbraKaDabra Praveen-Kumar Issue
ISHAN TOPRE
ISHAN TOPRE • Mar 30, 2012
Quality of Indian engineers is degrading because there is lack of coordination between Industry and University. Everyone wants to become an engineer. Why? Because such air is created by the Government. They want to SHOW that employment is created.

But nobody understands the cost of such employment. As far as companies like Infy is concerned, I have little faith in them. I am of the opinion that such companies are making the educational scenario of this countries sick.

As far as IIT is concerned, I will not say IITans are bad (whether Chetan Bhagat or Murthy sir). Because I failed to secure admission there twice. So unless I can get past through its entrance exams, I am no authority to talk about IITs.
Ankita Katdare
Ankita Katdare • Mar 30, 2012
avii
I was about to open similar thread, Chetan Bhagat vs N Murthy.
Firstly, no personal grudges on Bhagat, everyone knows he is a media whore
+1 👍

Since this topic has been discussed over and over again on CE. I would like to point you to some of the threads. -

https://www.crazyengineers.com/commu...ring-education-system-needs-an-upgrade.10310/
https://www.crazyengineers.com/community/threads/whats-industrys-role-in-education.51853/
https://www.crazyengineers.com/commu...ou-propose-to-current-education-system.52091/
https://www.crazyengineers.com/community/threads/can-technology-transform-education-how.51616/

And ultimately, somewhere down the line parents forcing their children to get a job in Infy or TCS OR for that matter even asking them to go to pharen for 'higher education' has to stop.
greatcoder
greatcoder • Apr 2, 2012
The_Big_K

I very much agree to u, while saying that Quality of Engineers in India have degraded to a large Extent.

I am going to talk about real scenario and try to discuss some factors contributing for the same.

1) The main reason for degradation of the quality is increase in "Quantity". There are uncountable Private Engineering colleges in every state. Their main aim is to earn money in the name of providing education to the emerging youth of India. They do not have any quality control over teachers and they are recruiting cheap lecturers, professors who themselves are unable to understand the basics.

2) Thus Education has become an industry and that too a huge money producing industry. People have started treating it as a business and just aimed at maximizing their profits and nothing else.

3) Students also know that they just want a mere degree to get an IT job in TCS, wipro, infi etc. The day is not far when they will even start hiring class 12th people. Students are themselves not serious bcoz they know that their job is secured and no one stop them from entering into IT sector. I have seen these bulk hirers hire people irrespective of their branch. The students here should think that what they are doing by accepting such a job. Such jobs are useless, make them monotonous, destroy their creativity and make them dumb.

I think ultimately, people have to change their outlook towards their life and then only India can produce "Quality Engineers", otherwise India will never be creating new things but will be busy in doing the same monotonous outsourced work.


Regards
GC👍
aNaN
aNaN • Apr 20, 2012
i personally think it is degrading.
one thing is that the number of engineering colleges is increasing exponentially. The private engineering colleges give more importance to the money they get than the quality of education they offer.
Another thing is that parents of almost every child in our country want their ward to be an engineer or doctor. they are least concerned about what they want to become. So if people who are not at all interested in engineering come to the field, they find it really hard to succeed.
Yet another point is the syllabus of various universities. It is completely outdated and useless in todays world.
rk rao
rk rao • Aug 11, 2014
Well, this debate has been going on post 2007, ever since, lot of Engineers, both good and bad ones, got laid off from service industry. Yes, even I was part of this, laid off from Infosys in 2009.

I happen to organize an event, in which a participant, who had instrumentation engineering was working as a QA in Yahoo. He told me that the entry level salary in his core field is 2500 INR/month, I mean, come on, I know that even BA graduates make 10,000 INR/month by pursuing vocational jobs, then he was an Engineer. Naturally, Engineers, being practical breed of this planet would look out for better avenue.

This is the real problem, Engineers not being paid at all. On top of that, the academic-industry links is virtually absent. I don't believe that clearing entrances actually makes one an Engineer. Because, unlike the design schools, which asks the portfolios, there are no personality interviews of Engineers in india, where, the portfolios are asked. Until and unless, people won't see what has one made, or at least, an effort to make something, no one can gauge's one aptitude for Engineering. I have been saying this time and again to lot of people, but no one understands.

Also, being an Engineer, one must have the ability to communicate, communicate with logic on various issues, help everyone, make and build team. Unfortunately, it is only about writing code. Read the history of James watts, his dreams, why did he make a steam engineer, despite belonging to a wealthy family, he still had to struggle.

Indians have fallen in the trap of getting used to easy way of life. And when, something comes easy, it is not valued. Only when one puts in lot of effort is when one understands its value. Why kings fight to protect their empires? Because, these kings had put in lot of effort to establish an empire, they value it, they own it.

I cannot say that the Engineers produced at present actually have any sense of responsibility which they have and must fulfill. It is not about owning a house etc, but to see things in a perspective.

These so called Engineers are nothing but similar to diploma people who do all vocational jobs. Electricians/mechanic etc fall in this category.

To sum up then, until and unless government will not interfere, the technical education in India will be going downwards and a situation will arise when India will face an Engineering crunch.
rk rao
rk rao • Aug 11, 2014
YOUNGGRASSHOPPER
I do not know alot about India or its government style but from what it sounds like to me is the government may be pushing to increase the education level of the country which will give India a greater power base to increase innovation and technical competitiveness on a global scale. I think in every country and age group there will always be cheaters tacking the easy way through life but eventualy the the real hard workers rise to the top and as more and more rise to the top they can set the standards for more improvement. 😀

Unforuntaely, those who love to do real hard work are considered useless. Father will say that your cousin has flown to the US for a project, he is earning in dollars, when will you go?
Mr.Don
Mr.Don • Aug 11, 2014
Hey CEans,

Sorry, I didn't refer to the all the points that were made on this page but I agree with the fact that the quality of teaching, "what is Engineering!" and the basic stuff is actually not there in India anymore. Its not really that the quality of the Engineering is declining or there is nothing like that by the sense that once the information once is gathered it cannot perish not in this generation.

Now, coming to the point. Indians are there, everywhere in the world and there are too many of them to judge. IT, pharmaceutical, industrial companies depend highly on Indians. Indians just don't go beyond the comfort zone and they just don't try new things like trying to be entrepreneur and by the time they give it a thought time flies through and there will nothing they can do. If an Engineer that can't talk technical that doesn't mean he's not technical. We all know the stuff will be stored in cloud and we can access it. We just don't know how to use it to move forward.

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