Microsoft CTO on Quality of Software Engineers in India

Replies

• 

  Jerry

  I do not agree
  
  I do not agree with Mundie. I will wait for others to post their opinions. 😉
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  Cummon guyz! Speak out whatever you feel !
  
  This thread is kinda dead for sometime 😀
• 

  Dionysus

  Re: I do not agree
  
  

  Jerry

  I do not agree with Mundie. I will wait for others to post their opinions. 😉

  And why not?
  
  Would you agree that being an engineer in India is not exactly a privilage, but a mandate for most? A goal which is achieved with minial efforts, without maybe, even having to appear for any competitive exams? That every nook, cranny and maggot ridden, sore infested crack in India is oozing with engineers, who are not only sub-par, but also apathetic to the idea of what being an engineer entails? Being an engineer is not a matter of choice, but a trend, as a direct result of which, the actual purpose of pursuing a higher education has dwindled into obscurity. Federal funding is a distant second, when it comes down to evaluating the actual cause for this notorious intellectual downfall. The primary reason is undeniably the fact that most people couldn't be less interested in pursuing this career, but continue to do so, because it's the politically correct thing to do, and in most cases, a safe bet which will eventually land them a cretenious job of writing COBOL for a financial conglomerate in the US.
• 

  Jerry

  easy easy!
  
  Easy there! Dino ! 😀
  
  Mundie talks about special species - Indian software engineers. Those few who I work with are really good & I got no doubt about their technical capabilities. I am not sure how things are in India (never been ther 😁 ).
  
  and microsoft :roll: if they got problems with indian software engineers, why are they expanding in hydrabad ? i heard its the second biggest microsoft facility after redmond headquarters.
  
  ... i've a feeling that this thread is going to turn into a debate. 😲
• 

  pradypop

  I really digged this thread out, didn't i?
  
  Its difficult to generalize the issue but there's some truth to the allegations of Mundie.
  
  The crux of the matter is that the universities do not have their priorities sorted out. People study too many subjects and end up being Jacks of all trades and masters of none. These people can't contribute much to the industry straightaway.
  
  But same people who work for an year or so in the industry turn into excellent professionals and do write quality software. These are the people Jerry met as his collegues.
  
  The industry does not contribute much to education and government cannot afford to do more. Student ends up doing lots of theory without getting grasp of implementational issues.
  
  So, Mundie's critisism holds for freshers from universities but not for entire community of developers in India
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  People study too many subjects and end up being Jacks of all trades and masters of none

  I agree. Probably we have an educational system that 'blocks' the creative thinking. Look at our exams. Even in Engineering, you can mug all the formulas & theorems and manage a boundary 40. Well, is that engineering all about?
  
  Probably, we need people who can *think*. People who can study 5 things & think of a 6th which combies the best of all 5.
  
  What do you say?
  
  -The Big K-
• 

  xheavenlyx

  Re: I do not agree
  
  BRINGING IT BACK FROM THE DEAD! After reading Biggies post on this:::
  
  #-Link-Snipped-#
  
  

  Dionysus

  And why not?
  
  Would you agree that being an engineer in India is not exactly a privilage, but a mandate for most? ... but also apathetic to the idea of what being an engineer entails? Being an engineer is not a matter of choice, but a trend, as a direct result of which, the actual purpose of pursuing a higher education has dwindled into obscurity ... The primary reason is undeniably the fact that most people couldn't be less interested in pursuing this career, but continue to do so, because it's the politically correct thing to do, and in most cases, a safe bet which will eventually land them a cretenious job of writing COBOL for a financial conglomerate in the US.

  
  This is very agreeable. My and one of my friends studying Computer Science in a banglore university always talk about this! Most of them take it for a safe bet.
  
  And I just figured out why SO many people say "we" are "desired" by huge U.S. companies and blah blah blah. Thats because the creative process is already done. The program has already been structured. It is just the writing-the-code part and testing and iron-out-the-bugs, that is left to do. That is given to the cheap and abundant labor.
  
  
  The friend I am talking about sometimes gets very depressed over the state of his college. BUT he says there are a few 5-6 people in his class who are craving to do something creative, and do it. Those few are the once who either get an average CGPA or even less!
  
  
  One guy here in Dubai (BITS Pilani - Dubai, its just the name, nothing more) made a full fledged moving robot costing about 20,000 Rupees. The Director took it away after the technical presentation saying it is the college property now. He made a few more projects after this but got very de-motivated after the scenario. He had 20% attendance (we need 50% to pass the year and 80% to avoid monetary fines) somehow he managed to get through engineering after repeating about 5 courses in total. CGPA dropped from 9.8 of first year to 6.something in the final because he wanted to concentrate on the projects and the learning part, not the mugging up. He now has a company in Dubai for engineering consultation.
• 

  xheavenlyx

  Very well said!!
  
  I have a friend, when asked why she took electronics and instrumentation (not to mention that she had no aptitude nor the interest), her answer? She giggled for a few seconds and said "Ese hi tick mar dia! Aur kya leti? Computer wala full tha" TRANSLATION: "I made the selection for the heck of it. What else could I chose, computer thing was full". I felt like slapping her, but that would be stupid. Cant blame her. This is the trend.
  
  And yea, what about every other 2nd person doing MBA after a B.E/B.Tech?
  
  

  The_Big_K

  I agree. Probably we have an educational system that 'blocks' the creative thinking. Look at our exams. Even in Engineering, you can mug all the formulas & theorems and manage a boundary 40. Well, is that engineering all about?
  
  Probably, we need people who can *think*. People who can study 5 things & think of a 6th which combies the best of all 5.
  
  What do you say?
  
  -The Big K-

• 

  xheavenlyx

  For the record, I am an Indian.
• 

  Prasad Ajinkya

  Craig Mundie is bang on! How many amongst us have the guts to put their money where their mouth is 😀? How many engineers that India has churned out have actually gone back and busted their rears in a start up? Yes, the number of engineers who have the potential are many, but how many of them use that mind of theirs? How many of them think?
  
  Answer is only a pitiable few. The rest of them choose to take up jobs in an MNC where they do not have to bother about responsibilities. I do not blame them as such. Given a choice, its always easy to take the simpler no-hassles option ... and so do many.
  
  What I would like to know, is why are there 5 engineers here in this thread who do not agree with Craig?
• 

  mahul

  i completely agree with Mundie. i'm still a student and the main focus seems to be on mugging up well enough to maintain good gpa's. Even the other driving factor, ie campus recruitment focusses more on such issues rather than the quality of ur project work. Maybe that's why that is why we churn out engineers with lots of knowledge but little creative application.
• 

  xheavenlyx

  Lol, the ones who disagree are few, and are not Indians I guess. Read the whole post, its interesting ( 😔 I know its bloody long...)
  
  EDIT----
  
  Crap you were talking about the Polls. Yea, correct, why did they disagree. Didnt even leave their comments I guess.
• 

  mathew720

  Not a software engineer just an enthusiast '
  
  
  
  Well i totally agree with whatever he told its true , Indian students IQ in high school is high than international average ,...... i believe its due to the family pressure and peer pressure some even through own interest ,...fact is that basics of most Indian remains strong when he finishes his high school , now problem starts when he jumps in to engineering .i can blame it on culture ,students themselves ,parents,govenment well blame game never ends but though good to know why to blame'm, .
  But i think mundie missed something to mention or someone deleted what he said , collage graduates are not seasoned , that's why a company holds training period , eventually company ends up with a bunch of good engineers , its up to company to chose them , i don't know how many are kicked out at training sure would like to know from u guys ...
  
  
  
  Even though some factors of India should be blamed
  i do believe local applications are less in India a land of software engineers , for sure privet telecom providers could be more providing better broadband services eventually which can be controlled by government lowering tax in telecom could bring more users in India . ........same goes for wireless service providers too...
  
  Government Exam regulatory authority should have a higer level of expertise to provide nation with quality engineers ,questions should be ones which one can actually be useful in real environment , thus making good outcomes than trend ....
  
  Parents should show let kids pursue their dreams support and guide it ,not a game freak ,maybe that too ...
  
  Outsourcing is much more than local market growth , economical growth for intense can be blamed for this , but not a good reason if there is enough software enthusiast ....
  
  Even some other countries are facing same situations , china as an example produces more engineers than India tough its outsourcing is less than India , china have twice over computer users than in India with plenty local resources ,even economic growth and government supports its local market