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  • ISHAN
    ISHAN

    Member • Apr 4, 2012

    Government's Dilemma!

    I have often wondered about how Government functions. One one hand, it gives out Liquor permits while on the other, it tries to close all liquor shops.
    While Government bans smoking, but does not bans production of cigarettes. The same is with tobacco, cow slaughter etc.

    Why cannot Government function like a *proper decision making body* like any private sector industry?

    What reason do you spot behind this dilemma?
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Replies

  • Kaustubh Katdare

    Administrator • Apr 4, 2012

    The whole 'tax' system is the one to blame in my opinion. The more I learn about the way money functions, the more it seems like there's no need to collect tax. It's not a dilemma; but just a way to 'rule'. Think about it.
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 4, 2012

    The_Big_K
    The whole 'tax' system is the one to blame in my opinion. The more I learn about the way money functions, the more it seems like there's no need to collect tax. It's not a dilemma; but just a way to 'rule'. Think about it.
    If you think closely, Government spends more on treating patients of addiction than it earns from liquor shops and similar things.

    Say if a company produces 1 bottle of beer, Government earns INR 50. It spends about INR 5000 to treat an alcohol patient in Government hospital. So from where this INR 5000 come? From tax payer's pocket! 😨
    And where does this INR 50 goes? Well you can guess of course 👀

    One more, on one hand, Government says, it wants to eliminate corruption while it has recently levied tax on Gold. #-Link-Snipped-# I agree with you. This whole monetary system is fraud.The actual figures are so huge that every day thousands of billions of worth bogus transaction occurs; resulting in unaccounted wealth and scams. It needs a rethink.
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  • silverscorpion

    Member • Apr 4, 2012

    The_Big_K
    The whole 'tax' system is the one to blame in my opinion. The more I learn about the way money functions, the more it seems like there's no need to collect tax. It's not a dilemma; but just a way to 'rule'. Think about it.
    How then will the government function? How will it meet its expenses?
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  • Kaustubh Katdare

    Administrator • Apr 4, 2012

    silverscorpion
    How then will the government function? How will it meet its expenses?
    Well, I'm still in the process of learning how the economy works currently. I do my own studies whenever I find free time and I continue to ask *very basic* questions. I don't have an answer ready for your question; but hope to find one soon.

    Basically, I'm yet to understand how does Government come up with the amount to circulate in the country.
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 5, 2012

    silverscorpion
    How then will the government function? How will it meet its expenses?
    See, Government is a regulatory body. In my opinion, it should not be entrusted with money. Its work is to guide various developmental projects and hence to just direct the flow of money in the market.

    PLUS Government also does business. There are so many public sector companies like LIC, BSNL, BHEL etc. The profits form this organisation should be made available for meeting expenses of Government.

    Naturally if Government wants more money, it will lead to beneficial beneficial things-

    1. Profit has to be earned: It will stop the money laundering goof up because the collection of tax will stop. If itGovernment wants more money, more profit has to be ACTUALLY EARNED not showed on paper.

    2. Efficient system: If it earns more profit, then naturally Government offices have to become more efficient hence making whole system efficient.

    3. Clarity and transparency: If tax stops, there won't be any necessity for citizens to keep money in black. All flow will be through nationalize banks and everything will be clear and transparent.

    4. Better standard of living: It will lead to better standard of living because that 30% of money which you are giving to Government and it is leading to scams will stop. PLUS you will save your time in calculating your yearly bills to submit to CA and can concentrate on your work.

    Kautilya's Arthashastra is an authority on tax collection and money management system for state and individual. If you read it, then you will find that the above points are mentioned there. Rather I am putting these point keeping Kautilya's Arthashastra as a reference.

    There are many more points but still beyond the scope of this thread. I will be happy to hear your opinion. 😀
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  • Shreyas Sule

    Member • Apr 5, 2012

    Issue
    If you think closely, Government spends more on treating patients of addiction than it earns from liquor shops and similar things.

    Say if a company produces 1 bottle of beer, Government earns INR 50. It spends about INR 5000 to treat an alcohol patient in Government hospital.
    #-Link-Snipped-#: I was doubtful of the above statement. For eg Kerala is the highest grosser of sales tax from liquor sales (about Rs. 3000 crore) annually. It seemed far fetched that the state that literally runs on alcohol could spend more on treating patients than it could earn from revenues. But the following fact cleared my doubts:

    Using their findings in the Bangalore study, researchers from NIMHANS have calculated that the direct and indirect costs attributable to alcohol addiction is more than triple the profits of alcohol taxation and several times more than the annual health budget of Karnataka. Extrapolating their findings to the whole of India they estimate the total alcohol revenue for 2003—04 of 216 billion rupees falls 28 billion rupees short of the total cost of managing the effects of alcohol addiction. These included the tangible costs of health care, occupational, financial, social, and legal factors.
    Source: #-Link-Snipped-#

    Same may be true for Kerala too. I could not find any figures.

    Earlier I had thought that why would Government kill a golden goose. But now I am in dilemma!
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 5, 2012

    Another dilemma. DRDO can develop cryogenic engine when got a challenge from America and Russia. But taking help from DRDO, why cannot the Government not stop our dependence on foreign countries for import of high end weaponry?

    Why is the point in import of warfare equipment when you can produce it in your own country?
    Even the china has stopped its import and produces required weapons on its own.

    Depending on other countries means-

    1. Danger of getting attacked before receiving the complete shipment.
    2. Why to pay more for same thing?
    3. Quality issues (what if you can produce better quality?).
    4. You are crusing home grown engineering technology.
    5. Paving way for another enslavement by some other country.
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    Another contrast-

    Government signing Free trade agreement with foreign multinationals and levying taxes on products from Indian manufacturing sector.

    Reference- Read the Budget presented by Pranav Mukherjee, Finance Minister UPA
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  • circularsquare

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    Issue
    Say if a company produces 1 bottle of beer, Government earns INR 50. It spends about INR 5000 to treat an alcohol patient in Government hospital. So from where this INR 5000 come? From tax payer's pocket! .
    This statement doesn't present entire picture. An alcohol patient doesn't get sick after consuming just 1 bottle of beer. Further not all people who drink get sick.

    I am not endorsing drinking here just pointing that the logic was simplistic.😉
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    circularsquare
    This statement doesn't present entire picture. An alcohol patient doesn't get sick after consuming just 1 bottle of beer. Further not all people who drink get sick.

    I am not endorsing drinking here just pointing that the logic was simplistic.😉
    The logic is Government spends more on treating alcohol patients than it earns from liquor business. Moreover, not every alcohol patient is treated by Government. Those who are treated are very few in number. PLUS there is no guarantee that such people will never ever turn to this addiction.

    My point is, if you want people to quit addiction then why do you give out permit to sell liquor in the first place?
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  • circularsquare

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    Issue
    The logic is Government spends more on treating alcohol patients than it earns from liquor business. Moreover, not every alcohol patient is treated by Government. Those who are treated are very few in number. PLUS there is no guarantee that such people will never ever turn to this addiction.

    My point is, if you want people to quit addiction then why do you give out permit to sell liquor in the first place?
    Government wants people to quit addiction , it doesn't want them to quit alcohol.

    Total prohibition is one of the founding directives of our constitution , but the government realizes that it is not feasible.
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    circularsquare
    Government wants people to quit addiction , it doesn't want them to quit alcohol.

    Total prohibition is one of the founding directives of our constitution , but the government realizes that it is not feasible.
    I am not addicted to alcohol. Is it not feasible?
    If the production of liquor stops, no body will drink alcohol. It means, not only our cost on treating these people get saved but also it will lead to productive use of time by addicts. Hence benefiting two folds. 😀
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  • circularsquare

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    Issue
    I am not addicted to alcohol. Is it not feasible?
    If the production of liquor stops, no body will drink alcohol. It means, not only our cost on treating these people get saved but also it will lead to productive use of time by addicts. Hence benefiting two folds. 😀
    People like you and me who don't drink alcohol can say like this. But I've seen people for who alcohol is refreshing just like tea and coffee. They are not addicted to it and drink as a stress buster. What should these people do. There is demand for alcohol in the market so why should the government ban it.

    Further the problem is not in alcohol but in addiction. And banning alcohol will not solve the psychological problem of addicts. They will turn to gambling or any other sort of addictions.

    Instead of banning alcohol the solution lies in removing addiction by proper education.

    Human beings tend to get more attracted to those things which are banned.
    Gujarat has got prohibition of alcohol but Gujaratis are amongst the highest consumers of alcohol.
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    circularsquare
    Instead of banning alcohol the solution lies in removing addiction by proper education.
    The action starts by banning it. Education can follow suit.
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  • circularsquare

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    Issue
    The action starts by banning it. Education can follow suit.
    There is a ban on alcohol in Gujarat. But still alcohol is available there.
    This shows ban is not solution.

    And what about those people who drink in moderation. They demand alcohol. What will they do. Will a ban not impinge on their freedom of choice.
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    circularsquare
    There is a ban on alcohol in Gujarat. But still alcohol is available there.
    This shows ban is not solution.
    Guess, it is imported from other states. Ban it in whole country. The constitution is for whole Country and not Gujarat alone. Of course Gujarat Government did a good job of enacting such laws 😀

    This movement should get support from every nook and corner of country. Remaining pessimist is not going to solve the problem.
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  • circularsquare

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    Issue
    Guess, it is imported from other states. Ban it in whole country. The constitution is for whole Country and not Gujarat alone. Of course Gujarat Government did a good job of enacting such laws 😀
    Let us assume you like to eat chocolates and you eat chocolates occasionally in moderation. Now a person has got a problem against chocolates because some people's teeth get cavities because of excess eating. This person suggests that there should be a ban on chocolates. Wouldn't you feel that your freedom to eat chocolates is being snatched from you. Wouldn't educating chocolate addicts about tooth decay be more beneficial.

    A ban assumes that the public are like children who don't know what is good for them.
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    *Alcohol* cannot be compared to *chocolates*. First compare it with some other thing. ...How about Drugs?

    Very well, my freedom 😨 of consuming drugs is getting snatched away. I take drugs in moderation...😲
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  • circularsquare

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    Issue
    *Alcohol* cannot be compared to *chocolates*. First compare it with some other thing. ...How about Drugs?

    Very well, my freedom 😨 of consuming drugs is getting snatched away. I take drugs in moderation...😲
    Drugs is a different issue. Even One time consumption of drugs may be very harmful. But the same is not true of alcohol.
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  • Oceanliner

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    Interesting question. I believe that there are two ways the dilemma can be answered rationally. First the government could be using laws to forbid and restrict access to things that are considered dangerous. In this case the government reasonably has to care for you if anything that is allowed by the government do you harm. It's like a social contract stating that the individual will forsake certain freedoms in exchange for security and protection. The other extreme is that the individual is free to do whatever he or she wants to (without limiting the freedoms of others) but have to suffer the full consequences. These extremes are usually placed on the political left-right scale. Most democracies are leaning back and forth between between e.g. liberals and conservative, therefore governmental policies tend to look a bit schizophrenic at a first glance. Even though an oscillating middle path might not be the most rational or theoretically benefit maximizing schema I think it provides a more robust form of society where neither political extreme gets realized.
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    Oceanliner
    I think it provides a more robust form of society where neither political extreme gets realized.
    That's the dilemma 😁
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  • Sahithi Pallavi

    Member • Apr 6, 2012

    How did I miss this interesting thread? Read all the posts and now I'm in dilemma, will post my opinion once I come to normal..
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 7, 2012

    On one hand Government says that parliament is supreme. While there are well choreographed drama.

    A few days back it was the adjournment of Rajya Sabha session midnight.

    Now it was defamation of Army Chief V. K. Singh in parliament. It is clear that the letter was leaked from PMO and not from Army HQ. Then why accuse Army Chief of leaking it?

    In Delhi, anytime 25000 troops are present. Then why will general send troops from Agra/ Hisar to capture capital? He can use troops already stationed in New Delhi. Why these corrupt politicians are defaming our Army Chief?
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 12, 2012

    Why the capacity of Judiciary system is not increased? We can have faster justice then. Is there any problem in increasing the number of judges/ courts?
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 18, 2012

    Government gives subsidies if you want to go on a Haj pilgrimage (good initiative). The same Government levies taxes if you want to visit Vaishnodevi or Amarnath! 😨

    Why this kolaveri Di?
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 18, 2012

    The best way to solve India China border issues is to recognize Tibet as an independent nation. Why didn't do it in 1950 itself? What are we doing now?
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 29, 2012

    Recently read the bribery case result for Bangaru Laxman: Scam just INR 100000. Sentence 4 years+ INR100000 fine. CBI is faster and enthusiastic as never before.
    but
    UPA Allies: A. Raja, Kanimozhi- Scam 1,76000 Crore. Sentence??

    Congress: Bofors Scam, helped Quattrochi get out of country and numerous other scams. Sentence??
    Also who let Bhopal Gas Tragedy accused Warren Anderson get out of country?

    Why this Kolaveri Di?
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  • Mr.Don

    Member • Apr 30, 2012

    #-Link-Snipped-# You know what! I'm sorry to miss all the action. There is lot of useful information in this thread. My feeling since I've read some of Biggie's posts are that "The only difference in India before independence and after is its People" - Yes, surprisingly we started loving slavery for money. We've been paying tax like never been before. VAT taxes are there at their best. We've paying taxes almost for everything for nothing! and getting ill for buying useless things to relieve from pressure. May be "This is called H.E.L.L." bro!
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • Apr 30, 2012

    #-Link-Snipped-# This is nothing. Indians pay 64 different types of taxes... and there are more to come. Even after paying so much money Government is letting us to face the market forces. Why to free petrol and diesel form government regulation?

    So where is the money collected from taxes going?

    Now even the cooking gas we use will be of INR 1000. In European countries, people pay only 2-3 types of taxes and still they enjoy full medical benefits directly from Government. Why this Kolaveri Di?
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • May 1, 2012

    Manoranjan Roy an RTI activist filed an RTI application with the Union Home Ministry. He wanted to know what is the official name of Bharat.

    In answer he got- We don't know the name of our country! 😨

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  • Kaustubh Katdare

    Administrator • May 1, 2012

    Interesting applications Indians file! I guess 'Bharat' sounds official enough. People have problems with almost anything.
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • May 9, 2012

    Government wishes to bring internet censorship?
    [​IMG]
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • May 10, 2012

    [​IMG]
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  • ISHAN TOPRE

    Member • May 10, 2012

    [​IMG]
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  • Anoop Kumar

    Member • May 15, 2012

    Interesting applications Indians file! I guess 'Bharat' sounds official enough. People have problems with almost anything.
    Yes, people are have proplem with everything.
    why not this guy just see his passport, there is written : भारत का गणराज्य
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