Wikipedia's Report On Indian Students : Your Take?

@thebigk • Oct 25, 2024

Oct 25, 2024

1.4K

Popular blog on startups, Pluggd.in published an interesting article today describing Wikipedia's report on Indian Students. It says "Plagiarism and Copyright Violation are the major challenges among Indian students". During a Pilot Project conducted in Pune between February - November 2011, Wikipedia took up a pilot project among the top Universities in Pune through Campus Ambassadors (CA) to take the basics of Wikipedia to students. The activity comprised of creating usernames and editing content on Wikipedia.

Wikipedia page <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:India_Education_Program/Analysis/Independent_Report_from_Tory_Read" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Wikipedia:india Education Program/Analysis/Independent Report From Tory Read</a>: -

Heading into September, an increasing amount of problematic new material began to appear on English Wikipedia. Problems included copyvios, plagiarized passages, content mistakes and English language errors. In addition, many of the contributions were on topics in the areas of computer science and engineering, which were already well covered by Wikipediaâ€™s native editing community.

India has copyright and plagiarism laws on the books, but they arenâ€™t generally enforced, and many professors accept copy-pasted and plagiarized content from students. â€œPiracy is rampant here,â€ said one professor. â€œStudents copy directly from books and get away with it.â€

â€œBefore the Wikipedia assignment, copy-pasting from the Internet was standard practice for all of us,â€ said one student.

Regarding plagiarism, one student said, â€œWe routinely take other peopleâ€™s work and pass it on as our own. This idea of illegality was alien.â€

Global Wikipedia editors said that even before the Pune Pilot Project, a disproportionate amount of copyvio content that appeared on English Wikipedia was coming from IP addresses on the subcontinent. â€œWe already had concerns for the past few years about a lot of work coming out of India being loaded with copyvios,â€ said a Wikipedia arbitrator. â€œOf course, there are excellent editors from India, too. I donâ€™t want to paint everyone with the same brush.â€

In defense, one of the students said,

"You have to understand, this is the first time in our lives that our work has been cross-checked, and the assignment was compulsory," said a student. "We had to keep adding material to get our grade."

A small minority succumbed to the pleasures of a tech-based, cat-and-mouse game and created sock puppets, one of the worst offenses in Wikipedia culture. "We're computer programmers," said one student. "It was fun to find a technical work-around. And besides, Indians are famous for breaking rules. If you don't want to wait in a queue with a billion other people, you find a way to go around the system. It's the only way to get things done. We know, now, that this was really bad."

What's your take on this?

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ISHAN TOPRE

@ishan-nohePN • Apr 16, 2012

Why does Wikipedia needs to conduct this survey? 😉 It is a common knowledge that "Indian students copy content from web for their project presentation."

It is a common sense. Although it is bad. 😔
Kaustubh Katdare

@thebigk • Apr 16, 2012

What do others think about this?
Ramani Aswath

@ramani-VR4O43 • Apr 16, 2012

Quote:

This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man.

#-Link-Snipped-# (1564 - 1616) English dramatist, playwright & poet

Endquote
Integrity, in my opinion is non negotiable.
Pensu

@pensu-8tNeGU • Apr 16, 2012

Hah....nothing surprising. Indian students are copying since ages. We are taught to mug up the subject from books, vomit it in the exam and get good grades. It happens all over the country. And i dont think India is the only country where this happens. But yeah provided the population and a big number of internet users, we are way ahead of other, in copying of-course....😉. You cant blame students for this, our creativity was murdered when we put our first step in school. Its the system's fault. Hell, nobody cares if someone copies their whole final year project, leave aside small presentations and assignments.
ISHAN TOPRE

@ishan-nohePN • Apr 17, 2012

#-Link-Snipped-# I guess, today's incidence of APJ Abdul Kalam in "CE great quotes Collection thread" is the best example of copyvio/ copying without verification. 👍
Vignesh Raghav

@vignesh-raghav-zyV2ib • Apr 26, 2012

I would say the education system are manipulated in such a way they dont think or execute 'out of box happening' Chennai had sprawling 242 engineering colleges when I entered engg ,out of which only 20 to 30 are recognized by students . These figures(20 to 30) are not because of college infrastructure and excellent teaching academecians but because of students who out perform and thrive (also college is prominent ,since started at early 40s or 50s) .😕

We lack practical approach . Students gain nothing by bookworming . When you dont get a chance to implement or examine what you have read ,You will only have the ability to read but not to understand and grasp 😖
Prasad Ajinkya

@prasad-aSUfhP • Apr 27, 2012

Well, there are different ways to react to this -
1. and the easiest to do is to take the moral high ground and say copying is bad, should not be done ... yada, yada, yada ... well you know the rest.
2. acknowledge that this is a problem, and then ask, how do you solve it? Do you blame the education system (which gives positive re-enforcement for copying answers word-to-word from the texts)? Or blame the legal system by saying that IP laws are developing and thus contain a lot of loopholes? Who is to blame?
3. acknowledge this as not a problem, but a pragmatic way of living and say ... "Aye, we be pirates!!"

The hordes of programmers we have in this country also learn the ropes from searching on Google, students complete their assignments from forums, seniors and each other.

Yes. We pirates can solve problems ... but we pirates cannot create anything ... cannot leave behind legacies such as Apple, Microsoft, Facebook ... no, we go ahead and say - "Programming is waste, trust only copy-paste!"
ISHAN TOPRE

@ishan-nohePN • Apr 27, 2012

#-Link-Snipped-# One more way to react to this-
Kaustubh Katdare

@thebigk • Apr 28, 2012

One of the bigger problems is that Indians aren't very good at creating their own content. People would just click 'Like' or 'Share' and leave. We've been struggling with that problem here on CE since day #1. Yet to find a solution.
Gurjap

@gurjap-blPmg9 • Apr 28, 2012

Hey, what's the big deal here? I copy and paste all the time. Of course, I am required to cite references and sources, because my profs aren't stupid enough to think I did all the original research! Is this the only problem? Not citing your sources?
Ramani Aswath

@ramani-VR4O43 • Apr 28, 2012

I find that it takes about 10 to 15 minutes work to make a meaningful reply to a technical question. Sometimes a quick reference to some handbook and a back-of-the-envelope calculation also is needed to clarify our own response. People may not want to spend such time to give a considered response. Curiously, I for one find that I have learnt something new in the process.
Ankita Katdare

@abrakadabra • Apr 28, 2012

Creating content on your own requires talent of a different kind. There is an online group of "Zeitgeist Movement Activists". These people 'talk' their 'thoughts' so much that your brain starts to explode just by reading the amount of information/perspectives that is self-generated by these people. There IS talent here. There IS originality and creativity around us (in India). But it is in minority. THAT is a fact.

To the problem of plagiarism, like #-Link-Snipped-# said we need to change the mindset of students right from their day one of academic learning.
Gurjap

@gurjap-blPmg9 • Apr 28, 2012

Most of our engineering graduates end up as managers, because that's the only job the companies offer in India. I don't know even a single dude who is actually an engineer (and works in India). I think our system does a terrific job killing our originality; what use is it when you are a Sales Manager in BPCL?
Vignesh Raghav

@vignesh-raghav-zyV2ib • Apr 28, 2012

I back the point by #-Link-Snipped-# , Engineers are taught to learn but not to think .
Nishant Patel

@nishant-patel-aJRVpl • May 5, 2012

its not our fault....
Indian education system ruins master minds.....
System doesn't much concerned about creativity...it is much concerned about analysis(fair) and mugging right from the kg.
Ramani Aswath

@ramani-VR4O43 • May 28, 2012

#-Link-Snipped-#
ABCD ABCD

@abcd-2NEyMb • Dec 13, 2012

Vignesh Raghav
I back the point by #-Link-Snipped-# , Engineers are taught to learn but not to think .
Learn? Are we taught to 'Learn' or 'Mug'? Because, in my opinion, even learners can Think.

Here in Bangalore, i learnt today that the Government has given permission to some substandard colleges to create Private Universities. You can see, some of these proposed colleges have no quality nor infrastructure. They keep(in libraries) the Final Year Projects for students to Copy. Again that copied project is kept in the Same library for their juniors to copy. This is sick, and devoted students get screwed up due to the system.
RISHABH LALA

@rishabh-lala-6tqJat • Dec 14, 2012

The important thing - from above is that we have reached to a spot . .. although the journey involved the copy and paste !😀 and we have realized that it is wrong - although is has helped the INDIANS to enhance the knowledge base unlike in countries - where there Studying is basically based on the student's wish. ... Now our next step is originality , Innovative approaches , and creativity ...
ABCD ABCD

@abcd-2NEyMb • Dec 15, 2012

verymuch distressed about things that are going around. somebody needs to bring in some strong and innovative idea to end black money in india. That is the main reason for corruption. But, till now no indian economist has able to do it.
Jeffrey Arulraj

@jeffrey-xA7lUP • Dec 15, 2012

I am both angry and at a way sad to see even very bright ones use their skills to memorise the contents of huge books I have seen a friend of mine mug an entire book of 850 pages before the exam.He could even state the page and section no of the questions.

This is what we call education in our country cos student like him come out on the top. They look for easy ways and that is given by Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V so no point in arguing against it.

The other student who try to get the maximum info from sources have one problem I have encountered it many times. There is too much in the syllabus and just 90 - 100 working days for formal coaching in those topics. These days are also shortened in the name of Model exam and Self evaluation tests. These tests are of no use and eat 20 of the already short time.

Now think the plight of a student in these condition....
ABCD ABCD

@abcd-2NEyMb • Dec 15, 2012

#-Link-Snipped-#
was talking about the same thing sometime ago, but not on CE.
Abhishek Rawal

@abhishek-fg9tRh • Dec 15, 2012

Well, I don't think cramming is sin.That is one hella skill, man. 850 pages cramming ain't a joke.I don't support it though.

What is against protocol of Engineers is copying & pasting the projects. Now let me tell, We during Novembers & June are earning 500-2000 rupees per project (depends on size of project), some useless Engineers literally call us to make a project for them & they will pay us. This time is usually fun, 'cuz we earn a lot, sad thing is - somewhere deep down I feel that I am doing wrong just for my greed, but they anyhow gonna get ready-made project from other if not me, so i say "screw it! get some money!"
So, if they're not making the circuit on their own, how are they able to make soft-copy of their project ? Hence, they just copy-paste from wikipedia, takes a look at component that we've mounted & pass the practicals.

This goes to faculties too, they've developed a mindset that students just copy-pastes the content from internet, so they don't take a look at it (except format), hence students think they are not even admiring their hardwork, why waste time then ?
Thus, Things gets worse 😖
Kaustubh Katdare

@thebigk • Dec 15, 2012

#-Link-Snipped-# : That's what I feel too. Ethics, hardwork & honesty are all 'outdated'. People think money will make things easier so that they won't have to move their ass to get their engineering degree. Plus, the 'posh' jobs available don't require them to apply their minds as well. I know how in a major IT company, the manager got pissed off because the client got back to them saying 99% of the code you've written is copy-pasted from other websites.

We're into copy+paste era.
Rupam Das

@rupam-das-wW5CvN • Dec 16, 2012

To me, here are how problems creep in and continues
1. At a tender age of a child, parents starts teaching child with 'ABCD' because they would need that later in School admission. Mother tongue is sidelined. So you get the thinking and analysis skills taken away from child. Look at those countries who have excelled in Education and Invention: USA, Germany, Britain, China, Russia. Needless to say that one of the reason for this is education in your native language.

2. In India, there are about 20 lacks Engineering seats. So almost 60% gets into Engineering after Xii. Minimum cutoff is about 40% Now. So what you are left with? The students who fail to meet even this cutoff. Some identify this after class X and prefer a non science. So we are talking about students who are really poor in terms of academics. What they do? Join other courses like BCA, BSC, BCOM.. and then come back into education system as teachers. So understand teachers are one with most incompetent Quotient. What you expect them to teach your child?

3. Then the story in schools is more dark. A bag full of books, no teaching creativity, ruthless homeworks, tuition and studies. Where is Physical education or sports? Back seat. Result? When you grow adult, kids are physically not strong enough to take stronger mental challenges.

4. And Engineering colleges? Usually a place that completes the process of producing robots. No creativity, no way an innovative thinking is imparted. The story in some of the NIITs or IITs are bit different but not entirely. Trust me on this.

When I wrote a factorial with recursion in 1st year BE ( Internals) I got zero out of 5 because the VTU book that our so called teacher could follow with her limited IQ had only a factorial with for loop. This one example tells you the story. To me Parents, Professors, Lack of Sports activities and in general the up bringing are reasons for what we stand today.
Kaustubh Katdare

@thebigk • Dec 16, 2012

#-Link-Snipped-# : +1000 on the mother-tongue related point. Parents have been brain-washed into believing that if they don't educate their kid in English, his/her future is doomed. I really wish people realise the importance of their own language and stop communicating with their own kids in grammatically pathetic English (a common scene at public places these days).

I remember during my XII exams, I had found this 'smart' way of solving a matrix problem and my teacher, without using his brain even for a second had given me 0 out of 18. He insisted that the problem must be solved with at least in 6 steps and not in 1 like I did. 😲
ABCD ABCD

@abcd-2NEyMb • Dec 17, 2012

You have pointed out the actual thing Roopam. I can't scale the stupidity of those VTU teachers. Perhaps, all teachers there are same. But, the place where i'm studying is different. It's much worse.