Updating User Ranks On The Basis Of Usefulness Of Content - Feedback

Kaustubh
Member • Nov 15, 2012

Updating User Ranks On The Basis Of Usefulness Of Content - Feedback
We currently use number of posts to decide the rank of the user on the community. The higher the post count, the higher is the rank and the user title. That's a pretty traditional way of looking at the things and how users are 'promoted' to higher ranks on the site. As many of you have said on several occasions, this system is faulty. Because anyone can spam the site and keep increasing their post count and get ranked higher.

Many of you have suggested that the users should be promoted to higher ranks on the basis of the usefulness and quality of the content they've contributed to the website. It makes perfect sense.

We want your feedback on the following -

1. If we update the system - all our existing members will lose their current ranks! This change may be drastic. Are you 'OK' with such a change?

2. What should be the basis of promotion? We're planning for a system that allows users to rate individual posts in a more advanced way - 'Like', 'Dislike', 'Useful', 'Agree', 'Bad Spelling', 'Disagree' etc. Some of these ratings will fetch you positive ratings (Ex. Like), some will bring you negative rating (Bad Spelling) and some of the ratings will be neutral. (Ex. Disagree).

It makes sense to base our rankings on the number 'positive' ratings each user receives. We however can make it a combination of -
- Number of posts & positive ratings
- Just positive ratings
- Overall number of ratings (user creates content that gets strong reactions from community - positive, negative and even neutral)
3. Note that this system is quite powerful. If a person receives X positive ratings - he/she gets promoted to new rank. But if lot of people cancel their ratings then your rank may even go down (to previous rank).
4. We can determine the 'leaps' [how many points should increment your rating], but I believe our current system handles it very well. We'll make declare it once we (ever) migrate to the new system.
Looking forward to your responses. ☕ 😁
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Jeffrey Arulraj

Member • Nov 15, 2012

It is content what we want not the number of posts so I am in this change

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Dancer_Engineer

Member • Nov 15, 2012

Now that's quite a fair deal. 😁
But I have my doubts regarding the 3rd point. Can we exclude the 'detaining to previous rank' part as I feel it may demotivate the CEan.

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lal

Member • Nov 16, 2012

That is now something really fair. And like dancer engineer said, it would be better to retain the rank.
Another opinion I have is, a thread starter may be awarded an extra point. That person is the one who ignites a discussion. If the thread remains healthy may be a bonus point too.

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Kaustubh Katdare

Administrator • Nov 16, 2012
Let me add more clarity to the points I mentioned about the ranking system we *may* implement.

1. Note that the 'Negative' rating won't harm your ranks. In fact, we don't intend to let the negative ratings interfere with the ranking system.

2. Let's understand the positive ratings. If a user clicks 'Agree' or 'Useful' (there will be option of multiple positive ratings you can give to a post) - it will count ONE positive rating. So whenever a user contributes something that people like or rate as 'useful', then the person's positive rating will go up. This rating will be the basis of promotion to higher user rank.

However, if the user cancels his rating [ that is, if you click 'unlike' on the post you previously rated as 'like' ] then the user's overall positive rating decreases by one. Let me explain this -
- I like a post contributed by user A
- A's positive rating goes up.
- Similarly others like the posts contributed by A - each 'like' adds to the positive rating of A
- Once the positive rating reaches a threshold (let's say 10), A's rank goes up one level.
- After some time, I find that A's post which I liked earlier isn't what I thought it was and I cancel my rating - then A's overall positive rating goes to 9 - and he's pushed back to the earlier rank.
Note that cancelling a user's rating is NOT same negative rating! It's just taking back the rating I've earlier given to any user. I believe this is very much justified. Cancelling a already given rating isn't what CEans usually do.
Moving forward, this may open up new opportunities for us to integrate it into the systems we're planning to bring on CE 😉 .
I'm curious to know - is it okay for you to let go of the current ranks? 😀 . I know a few CEans who're bit emotional about it.
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Anoop Mathew

Member • Nov 16, 2012

Ranks or No-Ranks - doesn't matter at all. People don't address each other on CE based on ranks, do they?👀
So if someone feels 'emotional' about rank change, then they ought to know that they are crying over a very silly issue, when the big picture is clear in front of our eyes.😁 And the big picture here refers to 'gaining & sharing knowedge'.

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Saandeep Sreerambatla

Member • Nov 16, 2012

I guess its ok, Its a good move. The changes are always coming and we are getting used to it.

Any change is for good. Go Ahead Captain!!

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lal

Member • Nov 16, 2012

Woh. No emotions with ranks. Most Engineers, I think, never cared about ranks, but to get that pass mark even in college 😁

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zaveri

Member • Nov 16, 2012

I agree with this. but then i suggest that there be only positive ratings and no negatives .

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Dancer_Engineer

Member • Nov 16, 2012

I got the point. We can go ahead, the change is always welcome. 👍

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CE Designer

Member • Nov 16, 2012

Number of positive ratings seems fair. But i think amount of posts should count for something. '
I am talking about those who have over 1000 posts who keep the site active but not necessarily get many likes. We must not discourage those. I see people with really good posts who simply don't get the recognition they deserve.
Can we use an algorithm that take both these factors into consideration (positive and number of posts)? Place 70% of the weight on number of positive posts.
#-Link-Snipped-# its nice to be acknowledged when you do something good or help someone, even if you don't do it for the recognition. We are all humans after-all except for #-Link-Snipped-# I think he is alien.
P.S. Ramani Sir no offence rather it is a complement on your intellegence!

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Jeffrey Arulraj

Member • Nov 16, 2012

Biggie's decision in the redefined post is really cool I have seen the same system in other forums too

But do incorporate these buddy Thread starter If the thread crosses 5 posts in them gets a bonus and the bonus increases for every post after that \\What do you think guys ?

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Pensu

Member • Nov 16, 2012

Aha! Now, that's a good idea. I never believed in ranking based on number of posts (May be coz I am only able to score 741 posts in 3 years...😉). I guess at stackoverflow they have this kind of system, where you can increase/decrease a particular user's reputation based on the quality of his answer and I dont see anything wrong with it. Moreover, rewarding quality answers will motivate CEans to come up with better response every time. Coming to the feedback part:

1. I have no issues with rank. CEans contribute to the site coz they find it useful and I dont think it matters much that what rank they are on.
2. The rating system is good. I wont even want to go in that depth. Simply put it as positive/negative ranking. If I like it/find it useful/agree with it, I will rate it positive, if I dont, its negative otherwise I will just leave it as it is.
3. Completely fair.

Change is good and it should be welcomed.
Just wondering, if this system is applied would #-Link-Snipped-# loose his rank of 'The Good Administrator'....😉

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Jeffrey Arulraj

Member • Nov 16, 2012

Change is good and it should be welcomed.
Just wondering, if this system is applied would @#-Link-Snipped-# loose his rank of 'The Good Administrator'....😉
The last question is worth answering 😉

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white_hat

Member • Nov 16, 2012

Am totally in for the change.I think it should be combination of number of posts and positive rating.
.
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Should there be a negative rating? , I mean it will only discourage CEans. I think there should be a disagree button, this will invoke more discussions and will increase number of quality content.

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Kaustubh Katdare

Administrator • Nov 16, 2012

Alright - the 'Administrator' isn't a typical rank. It's the 'webmaster' aka the 'root' aka 'the powerful' 😁 of the community. The same goes with 'Moderator'. These are special ranks that can't be 'achieved' just by getting more post counts or likes.

Read - Guide to becoming moderator on CrazyEngineers: #-Link-Snipped-# (written back in 2008)

The positive and negative ratings will still apply to admin and mods - however it won't influence their ranks.

That said, I'd also like to clarify that the current 'Likes' count will add to your positive ratings. Make sure that you create content that is more likeable [excluding funny jokes and funny videos].

We might also remove the ability to rate others for the members with say less than 10 or 20 posts. However, those with higher post count will be able to rate the newest members.

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sweet_honey

Member • Nov 16, 2012

This is a nice move #-Link-Snipped-#.

But I am with #-Link-Snipped-#, that there should be some points on the number of posts too.

Though the rank doesn't matter whatever we get, but who doesn't like appreciation!
If the new system will make CEans to loose their present rank than surely there will be some disappointment.👀

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Jeffrey Arulraj

Member • Nov 16, 2012

post #16 is a nice idea Biggie. But also try to implement a way of honouring thread starters. They deserve it to an extent.

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darkwarrior111

Member • Nov 17, 2012

anoopthefriend
Ranks or No-Ranks - doesn't matter at all. People don't address each other on CE based on ranks, do they?👀
So if someone feels 'emotional' about rank change, then they ought to know that they are crying over a very silly issue, when the big picture is clear in front of our eyes.😁 And the big picture here refers to 'gaining & sharing knowedge'.
verywell said brother i agree with you.we are here for sharing what we know, to help others and to get help.

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Kaustubh Katdare

Administrator • Nov 17, 2012

To all those who think the ranks don't matter. The ranks 'will' matter. 😀

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ISHAN TOPRE

Member • Nov 17, 2012

The_Big_K
To all those who think the ranks don't matter. The ranks 'will' matter. 😀
There are some things on CE which I find trivial (one of them is rank). anyways, I remember that some time back there was a limit on PM and inbox capacity, uploading capacity of a new user. I think the ban is now lifted for me. Make sure that the inbox capacity and uploading capacity is not changed every now and then, with your rank shoots up and down.

Nothing more on this topic.

-Over and out- <...for time being>

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Ramani Aswath

Member • Nov 17, 2012

I'm curious to know - is it okay for you to let go of the current ranks? 😀 . I know a few CEans who're bit emotional about it.
I firmly believe that many of such titles (including doctor, professor and such) are labels. I for one am willing to let go of all ranks.

To all those who think the ranks don't matter. The ranks 'will' matter.
I join the rank and file of such disbelievers.

Having said that, the proposal has merits. Should be adopted. Can a data base of the original ranks be kept on ice for retrieval if there is a protest march or fasting a la Anna Hazare over the new system?

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Ramani Aswath

Member • Nov 17, 2012

An add on. Can we have an option to opt out of ranking altogether?
Some permanent rank like 'CE - Plain & Simple', which does not change.

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ISHAN TOPRE

Member • Nov 17, 2012

bioramani
An add on. Can we have an option to opt out of ranking altogether?
Some permanent rank like 'CE - Plain & Simple', which does not change.
1 vote for it.

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CE Designer

Member • Nov 17, 2012

Not everyone is the same but at least we have democracy here on CE. We must satisfy the masses. An online community needs the masses. We must remember we are an online community at all times. Its not tangible.

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Kaustubh Katdare

Administrator • Nov 17, 2012

I'll put it this way - in our expansion plan for CE, the user ranks will be taken a little more seriously. 😀

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Ramani Aswath

Member • Nov 17, 2012

I still feel that the user can be given an option to opt out of ranking. Just a choice. If the user cahnges the mind then ranking starts from that point. Or like the user name that may also be a one time choice.

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Indrajeet Roy

Member • Nov 17, 2012

I agree. It does seem to be a more logical way to assign rankings, and logic is an engineer's friend!!

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durga ch

Member • Nov 17, 2012

I support Ramani Sir's CE- plain and simple for different reasons though.I kinda don't like being assessed/ranked/promoted/demoted and then getting declared to world. I like giving lesser interest on my position . Like Ishant mentioned, I feel this is trivial.

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Indrajeet Roy

Member • Nov 17, 2012

#-Link-Snipped-#: I feel that instead of opting out of the ranking system altogether, there could be an option of not displaying the ranking to everyone. What say you?

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Ramani Aswath

Member • Nov 17, 2012

Indrajeet Roy
#-Link-Snipped-#: I feel that instead of opting out of the ranking system altogether, there could be an option of not displaying the ranking to everyone. What say you?
Certainly worth looking at. What bothers me is any hint of competitive superiority among people in a co-operative effort.

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Kaustubh Katdare

Administrator • Nov 17, 2012

There's one option - we may consider the opt-out requests from members who've a long history of high quality content contribution to CE. But ranking system will stay in place for everyone else. The ratings will be displayed on individual profiles as well.

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Kaustubh Katdare

Administrator • Nov 17, 2012

Well, I don't think ranking system is meant for competition. Yes, it can make CEans compete with each other but that's certainly not the goal.

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Ramani Aswath

Member • Nov 17, 2012

The_Big_K
There's one option - we may consider the opt-out requests from members who've a long history of high quality content contribution to CE. But ranking system will stay in place for everyone else. The ratings will be displayed on individual profiles as well.
Very sensible. Long time contributors have nothing to prove. As freshers mature they will have the option to opt-out. CE can fix a rank after which this option is available.

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Jeffrey Arulraj

Member • Nov 17, 2012

the ranking must in any way not make a CEan opt out of CE. Other than that any thing is right with most of CE

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CE Designer

Member • Nov 19, 2012

The veteran members and mods can have their own system, I agree. I know we will find a solution here that will please all. But it is interesting to see the variety of thoughts and people here. Thats what makes life interesting and I know this makes us a successful organisation.

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