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Possibility of creating a vehicle with a dynamic engine!

Question asked by Anoop Kumar in #Coffee Room on Aug 29, 2012
Anoop Kumar
Anoop Kumar · Aug 29, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
Here I came across a idea of creating a vehicle (say bike) with engine which have different cc (power) in different scenario.
Suppose I have a 250cc bike which never gives me mileage more than 35kmpl but comfort while driving on highway with high speed. On other way my second bike with 100cc is better suited for city traffic which gives me 70kmpl on average speed at 40-50Kmph.
But a 250cc bike always gives me 35kmpl no matter I am driving through city or highway. I don't want very much power while driving in city traffic.

What I am thinking is to create a engine which can be adjusted according to situation.
If I am driving on highway I can switch it to 250cc power engine and, can drive with high speed while driving in city, adjust its power to 100cc and get maximum mileage.

What is possibility of creating such engines??? Posted in: #Coffee Room
Jeffrey Arulraj
Jeffrey Arulraj · Aug 29, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
this is not gear to shift so rapidly since now a days all the pistons are sttached to the crank at all times if you have reduce the cc then you will have to go for a remodelling of the entire engine at all time

but in future we can expect some thing as you say
Anoop Kumar
Anoop Kumar · Aug 29, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
Surely its not a like gear shift... but if it is possible we can save lots of fuel.
I am curious how it could be possible.
One thought is to reduce side by side walls of combustion chamber to reduce volume.
Jeffrey Arulraj
Jeffrey Arulraj · Aug 29, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
that is true but right now it is void

why dont you try it in a smaller scale first a method of disconnecting the piston rods and the fuel injectors of some of the cylinders that will reduce cc and also increase mileage
vinod1993
vinod1993 · Aug 29, 2012
Rank C1 - EXPERT
This is such an interesting thread that has intrigued me..! 😀 Kudos ianoop..! Let us all together design a way..! Shall we?? There are many excellent mechanical brains here..! 😀 This is a real life problem which needs a remedy for sure..!! 😀 let us work together..! 😀
Saugata
Saugata · Aug 29, 2012
Rank D3 - MASTER
To vary the cc of an engine as per requirement, I think we can change the piston thickness which may be possible by making it telescopic in nature.
white_hat
white_hat · Aug 29, 2012
Rank C3 - EXPERT
Variable compression ratio engine,you want a VCR engine. VCR engine with supercharging will perform just like you were talking about.
Prototypes of these type of engines are developed but no production model yet.
Cylinder shutoff method is also used for v6 and v8 engines to improve fuel mileage under light load conditions.
Jeffrey Arulraj
Jeffrey Arulraj · Aug 30, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
white_hat
Variable compression ratio engine,you want a VCR engine. VCR engine with supercharging will perform just like you were talking about.
Prototypes of these type of engines are developed but no production model yet.
Cylinder shutoff method is also used for v6 and v8 engines to improve fuel mileage under light load conditions.

vcr"s have a much lower mileage as the fuel injected are not at all hampered by the compression ratio of the bike
vinod1993
vinod1993 · Aug 30, 2012
Rank C1 - EXPERT
In an engine of 'n' cylinders we have to think about a mechanism in which oly 'n-k' cylinders are operated for 'X' cc and 'n-g' cylinders are operated for 'Y' cc and so on and so forth..!! Any ideas to achieve this feat?? all mathematical and logical explanations are welcomed..! 😀
And the arrangement must be made to operate manually by switching..! 😀 This is my idea..! Correct me anywhere if I am wrong..! 😀 (Not completely my Idea..! Idea gained after some references..! )
Jeffrey Arulraj
Jeffrey Arulraj · Aug 30, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
remeber there must also be a restrainer to limit the fuel injected into the cylinder that will help us when we reduce the cc
vinod1993
vinod1993 · Aug 30, 2012
Rank C1 - EXPERT
I dont think we need a restrainer because we are reducing the amount of cylinders when we are reducing the cc...! Why do you say we need a restrainer?
gohm
gohm · Aug 30, 2012
Rank A3 - PRO
Interesting concept! So this vehicle needs to be powered by only one source (in your case ICE) and you are not looking to achieve the results via gearing or ECU? Looking forward to reading everyone's ideas! The industry has already had hit and miss as well as cylinder deactivation so let's see what great ways we come up with!
Jeffrey Arulraj
Jeffrey Arulraj · Aug 30, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
vinod1993
I dont think we need a restrainer because we are reducing the amount of cylinders when we are reducing the cc...! Why do you say we need a restrainer?

the point is no of cylinders cant be decreased just like that so if we ARE REDUCING CC ALSO the other cylinders which you are not using will be charged thereby a loss in fuel we may also have to tackle with one prob in any case the speed at which this transition is safe

that will play a vital role
white_hat
white_hat · Aug 30, 2012
Rank C3 - EXPERT
vinod1993
In an engine of 'n' cylinders we have to think about a mechanism in which oly 'n-k' cylinders are operated for 'X' cc and 'n-g' cylinders are operated for 'Y' cc and so on and so forth..!! Any ideas to achieve this feat?? all mathematical and logical explanations are welcomed..! 😀
And the arrangement must be made to operate manually by switching..! 😀 This is my idea..! Correct me anywhere if I am wrong..! 😀 (Not completely my Idea..! Idea gained after some references..! )
Different capacity cylinders means difference in size of pistons and cylinder bore.I think it will create huge unbalanced forces.And what about the size of flywheel,different capacities need different flywheel mass.
Anoop Kumar
Anoop Kumar · Aug 30, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
I don't know much about inside of engine technology but what I understand from this video

There are 4 separate combustion chamber.
Now what we can do is when we need less power we will detach end cylinders to get a balanced engine with just of half power.
Surely it is not like gear changing but we can change cc at engine start up.
Is it possible?
vinod1993
vinod1993 · Aug 31, 2012
Rank C1 - EXPERT
ianoop
I don't know much about inside of engine technology but what I understand from this video

There are 4 separate combustion chamber.
Now what we can do is when we need less power we will detach end cylinders to get a balanced engine with just of half power.
Surely it is not like gear changing but we can change cc at engine start up.
Is it possible?
Exactly ianoop yes we can use only two cylinders to produce half the power just at the start up but how?
zaveri
zaveri · Aug 31, 2012
Rank A3 - PRO
vinod1993
Exactly ianoop yes we can use only two cylinders to produce half the power just at the start up but how?

this can be done by cutting off the power to the spark plugs at the end cylinders.(in case of petrol engine).

This principle is just similar to that of the morse test performed on I.C engines.

now in order to keep the crankshaft in rotation, we can clutch it to a slightly heavier flywheel , whenever this "half-power-mode" is being switched on to.
Jeffrey Arulraj
Jeffrey Arulraj · Aug 31, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
zaveri
this can be done by cutting off the power to the spark plugs at the end cylinders.(in case of petrol engine).

This principle is just similar to that of the morse test performed on I.C engines.

now in order to keep the crankshaft in rotation, we can clutch it to a slightly heavier flywheel , whenever this "half-power-mode" is being switched on to.

The problem is only the ignition is stopped whereas the fuel injection must also be prevented into the unused cylinder
zaveri
zaveri · Aug 31, 2012
Rank A3 - PRO
jeffrey samuel
The problem is only the ignition is stopped whereas the fuel injection must also be prevented into the unused cylinder

that is not such a big problem either.

A mechatronic system can be designed, by which the fuel supply to the cut-off engines can be stopped.

for this we would have to eliminate the camshaft, and replace it with individual solenoids.

people can come up with better concepts for this idea.
Jeffrey Arulraj
Jeffrey Arulraj · Aug 31, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
if this hinderance is broken then the dynamic engine is not far off
zaveri
zaveri · Aug 31, 2012
Rank A3 - PRO
jeffrey samuel
remeber there must also be a restrainer to limit the fuel injected into the cylinder that will help us when we reduce the cc

Lets hope so.
vinod1993
vinod1993 · Aug 31, 2012
Rank C1 - EXPERT
vinod1993
I dont think we need a restrainer because we are reducing the amount of cylinders when we are reducing the cc...! Why do you say we need a restrainer?
Lol me. This statement was misinterpreted(by me).! i.e. I thought He said that a restrainer is needed for all the working cylinders. My bad. 😀 Yes restrainers are needed for cylinder that are cut off. 😀
Jeffrey Arulraj
Jeffrey Arulraj · Sep 1, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
guys injection okay
cylinders okay
what about fly wheel and crank they also have to be modified
zaveri
zaveri · Sep 2, 2012
Rank A3 - PRO
jeffrey samuel
guys injection okay
cylinders okay
what about fly wheel and crank they also have to be modified
As for the flywheel, two parallel flywheels, one heavy and one light, can be fixed on the end of the crankshaft.

the crankshaft end has to be modified in such a manner, so as to accommodate splines and the two flywheels with female splines in their hubs, can slide over it.

when the full power mode has to be used, then the lighter flywheel can be slid into action, and when the half-power mode is switched on, then the heavy flywheel can be clutched to.

this clutching-declutching action can be carried out by a solenoid.
Jeffrey Arulraj
Jeffrey Arulraj · Sep 3, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
that is awesomeness redefined
zaveri
zaveri · Sep 3, 2012
Rank A3 - PRO
jeffrey samuel
that is awesomeness redefined
Thanks ! Any other modifications to be made ?
Anoop Kumar
Anoop Kumar · Sep 3, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
zaveri
your suggested model looks close to practical... Is there anyway you guys can work on this type of project.😀
Jeffrey Arulraj
Jeffrey Arulraj · Sep 4, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
cool let us set our self our own small lab where we can test this out but is any of our members having some sort of lab or work space
Jeffrey Arulraj
Jeffrey Arulraj · Sep 4, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
The_Big_K: i need your help in this
white_hat
white_hat · Sep 4, 2012
Rank C3 - EXPERT
jeffrey samuel , zaveri ,Will such an engine design create unbalanced forces?
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Imagine there are 4 cylinders two of them with larger bore diameter.Now in the full power mode does all the 4 cylinders needed to be working or is it just the 2 with larger displacement.? If all 4 cylinders are working then,what about the firing order at full power mode?
white_hat
white_hat · Sep 4, 2012
Rank C3 - EXPERT
Untitled

This just an idea that popped up.Sorry this is just a rough image, drew it using MS paint.
Basically the idea is to use separate crankshafts for different size cylinders.Now they can be coupled together through a one way clutch.Concept is like two engines are mated together.
Benefits are when larger cylinders are shutoff they are at complete stand still so that no power is lost because of friction.
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Still one problem is that , how to synchronize the rpm of both engines?Maybe we should use a CVT instead of one way clutch.
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Sorry that the text is not in any order, am just typing on as these questions come to my mind.
Jeffrey Arulraj
Jeffrey Arulraj · Sep 5, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
the point and approach is cool but we need a sync engine that has same rpm

this is now available i guess not only that maintaining that is going to be a little issue
zaveri
zaveri · Sep 8, 2012
Rank A3 - PRO
white_hat

for the sake of simplicity, we will make all four cylinder-bores of equal diameters.

balancing will be taken care of on its own, when:

in full power mode, a proper firing order is maintained, and

in half-power mode, only the middle two cylinders are working.
zaveri
zaveri · Sep 8, 2012
Rank A3 - PRO
jeffrey samuel
cool let us set our self our own small lab where we can test this out but is any of our members having some sort of lab or work space
I hope we can work on this practically.
Jeffrey Arulraj
Jeffrey Arulraj · Sep 8, 2012
Rank A2 - PRO
still Mr K is yet to tell us about members having lab where this can be tried out and also the finance of the project
white_hat
white_hat · Sep 8, 2012
Rank C3 - EXPERT
For discussion purpose it is okay, this concept let's you think out of the box.But I wouldn't take it seriously, the reason is there won't be a drastic increase in the fuel economy.
zaveri
zaveri · Sep 9, 2012
Rank A3 - PRO
white_hat
For discussion purpose it is okay, this concept let's you think out of the box.But I wouldn't take it seriously, the reason is there won't be a drastic increase in the fuel economy.
You have a point there. but this project is worth working on, just for the sake of it.

nowadays even 1% saving in fuel would do.
ppkmech
ppkmech · Sep 9, 2012
Rank E1 - BEGINNER
Hai,
I think BUCATI STARDA SERIES can satisfy your needs... there s no need to invent, it is enough to find(in this case)....
zaveri
zaveri · Sep 10, 2012
Rank A3 - PRO
ppkmech
Hai,
I think BUCATI STARDA SERIES can satisfy your needs... there s no need to invent, it is enough to find(in this case)....
Such a thing already exists ? ! wow then tell us more about it.
zm-i
zm-i · Sep 13, 2012
Rank D1 - MASTER
I haven't read all the posts. I apologize if I post the same idea. 😐

Don't you think building a less fuel consuming engine is easier than building an engine that is capable of adjusting its volume when it is needed?

I have heard about the electrical vehicle racing. These cars and motorcycles run fast just like any other racing vehicle. However, these engines must be expensive. I believe that dedicated engineers who work on this technology will eventually find a way to invent a clean, powerful engine. All the user need to do when driving or riding in the urban streets is to set the limiter for their engines.

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