CrazyEngineers Archive
Old, but evergreen and popular discussions on CrazyEngineers, presented to you in read-only mode.
@James Reynold • 09 Sep, 2011 • 3 likes
I don't know whether it's possible or not. I recently heard a class about renewable resources and recycling.......After hearing that, i was observing the surroundings for something to recycle & reuse.Now, taking the ceiling fan, the electrical energy is being converted Mechanical energy.So i was thinking that ,whether we can convert this mechanical energy back into Electrical energy and make it a cyclic process. i.e. fixing an electrical winding (just like a rotor in electric motor) in the hook of the fan, and to make a magnet to rotate around this winding with the help of rotating base of the fan.The magnet is fixed to the rotating base, so that it also rotates,from which current is produced.will it work, what's ur opinion?
@Harshad Italiya • 09 Sep, 2011 • 1 like It means something like Dynamo?
@James Reynold • 10 Sep, 2011 somewhat right, what i mean is that.....the magnet will rotate around the winding which is in the hook.........what happens inside the fan ,we just make it happen outside also.
ya like a dynamo................
@Harshad Italiya • 10 Sep, 2011
James Reynold
somewhat right, what i mean is that.....the magnet will rotate around the winding which is in the hook.........what happens inside the fan ,we just make it happen outside also.
ya like a dynamo................
That is possible you have to make a drawing where you are going to put that magnet so it will affect less to normal Fan function.
@James Reynold • 10 Sep, 2011 will the speed of the fan be effected. by the weight of the dynamo...........😕
@Alienator • 10 Sep, 2011
James Reynold
will the speed of the fan be effected. by the weight of the dynamo...........😕
no it depends......dude try it out..you cant know it unless you try it....its really a great idea..... even i'm trying one similar to it......and that system i'm trying to use it in vehicles.....i hope you can guess .... 😀
@James Reynold • 10 Sep, 2011 if you have got any new ideas,,, plzzzzzz.. share it with me...!........😀
@Ramani Aswath • 10 Sep, 2011
James Reynold
if you have got any new ideas,,, plzzzzzz.. share it with me...!........😀
I am afraid that you will get into the clutches of law if you try this.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Technically you are right in that electricity will be generated. However, the second law requires that the the total output power is less than the input power in any real mechanism.
This means that your fan will share its mechanical output between the blades and the 'generator' that you add on. In effect the generator will act as a brake and slow down the fan. The total power out put of the fan (the mechanical energy delivered as air circulation plus the electrical energy from the added generator) will be less than the electrical energy consumed by the fan

I am afraid that there is no free lunch.
@lal • 11 Sep, 2011 • 1 like I agrees to that. The total output will be less than the input. The first step is convertion of electrical energy to mechanical energy. There are losses in this conversion. Again a part of this mechanical energy is converted back to electrical energy by the extra setup of magnet and windings. Losses come in to play here too. So I think with this setup, the fan is going to consume more elctrical power and no recycling will happen. And as we increase the load on the dynamo winding here, the fan will start consuming more electricity.But, I think we can use a small wind powered dynamo on the floor that will be enough to charge a mobile phone. The wind from the ceiling fan will be enough to operate this. And the fan will not be loaded directly, since the extra (wasted) wind energy is consumed by the dynamo on floor.
@James Reynold • 11 Sep, 2011 Ok I agree.....but,have u got any solutions for that?...and can u tell me what all things does the rotation of the fan depends????????????..factors affecting it?????...
@Ramani Aswath • 11 Sep, 2011
lal
I agrees to that. The total output will be less than the input. The first step is convertion of electrical energy to mechanical energy. There are losses in this conversion. Again a part of this mechanical energy is converted back to electrical energy by the extra setup of magnet and windings. Losses come in to play here too. So I think with this setup, the fan is going to consume more elctrical power and no recycling will happen. And as we increase the load on the dynamo winding here, the fan will start consuming more electricity.But, I think we can use a small wind powered dynamo on the floor that will be enough to charge a mobile phone. The wind from the ceiling fan will be enough to operate this. And the fan will not be loaded directly, since the extra (wasted) wind energy is consumed by the dynamo on floor.
You are right. Your suggestion is also valid and does not violate thermodynamics.

Here is the exact item that you suggested. Complete instructions are also given.

Camping Wind Turbine
@parth 127 • 11 Sep, 2011 can any one tell me some idea on control system project
@parth 127 • 11 Sep, 2011 can electricity be made from magnet
@lal • 13 Sep, 2011 Thank you for the link. one good way of harnessing the wind power..
@parth 127 • 13 Sep, 2011 thanks for the link n can u tell me any idea on projects in the field of control system power electronics n solid state drives
@smit.samani93 • 13 Sep, 2011 but we can atleast generate 50% of electricity what we are using in the fan 😀
@Alienator • 13 Sep, 2011
James Reynold
if you have got any new ideas,,, plzzzzzz.. share it with me...!........😀
using this same concept...u can power up a bulb or something...but not the same fan 😀
@Ramani Aswath • 13 Sep, 2011
parth 127
thanks for the link n can u tell me any idea on projects in the field of control system power electronics n solid state drives
How about Variable Frequency Drives for motor speed control?

https://www.variablefrequencydrives.net/acvariablefrequencydrives.htm

www.bcgwa.org/ppt/2007conventionppt/Dave Mellis.ppt

How do variable frequency drives (VFDs) work? or AC Drive Troubleshooting, Repair and Applications

https://www.ab.com/drives/energy_savings/Application Profiles-Whitepapers/ElecSubPump.pdf
@u_know_who • 13 Sep, 2011 Creating electricity from ceiling fan? Of course it can be done. But you have mentioned that you want to save electrical energy. Then why you need to create electricity from the mechanical energy which is being created by electricity? 😁

Don't use ceiling fan. you can save 100% of electric power. If you want to utilize the mechanical power of fan (for cooling effect) then creating electricity from it will effect on the cooling effect.

Try find out the energy source which is abundant in nature, wasting without utilization. Don't produce electricity from a source which rely on electricity. 😀
@Ramani Aswath • 14 Sep, 2011
parth 127
can u tell me can i do this as project
https://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2009/Projects/J1042.pdf
https://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2006/Projects/J0707.pdf
Of course you an. However, these are more scince fair curiosities which may not find actual use. What is the purpose of your project? Is it part of the curriculum? If so atwhat level? Unless some more information is given it is difficult to advise.
@parth 127 • 14 Sep, 2011 k thanks its a part of curriculum but i need some innovative ideas i dont understan wat to do i like control system very much but i think there is no purely control system based project can be done
@Ramani Aswath • 14 Sep, 2011
parth 127
k thanks its a part of curriculum but i need some innovative ideas i dont understan wat to do i like control system very much but i think there is no purely control system based project can be done
Not enough info yet. Is it a final year B.Tech project? Are you expected to make the whole system? Is it a single student activity? Does it have to be electronic? Can it be a very basic set up showing a feed back loop, corrective action and results obtained using non electronic components?
Is there a budget and time frame for it?
@parth 127 • 14 Sep, 2011 yes its final year project but i think i can do project on vfd using cycloconverter
@James Reynold • 18 Sep, 2011 Thank u 4 the link.I'll try something new
@pknaveen17 • 29 Sep, 2011
James Reynold
I don't know whether it's possible or not. I recently heard a class about renewable resources and recycling.......After hearing that, i was observing the surroundings for something to recycle & reuse.Now, taking the ceiling fan, the electrical energy is being converted Mechanical energy.So i was thinking that ,whether we can convert this mechanical energy back into Electrical energy and make it a cyclic process. i.e. fixing an electrical winding (just like a rotor in electric motor) in the hook of the fan, and to make a magnet to rotate around this winding with the help of rotating base of the fan.The magnet is fixed to the rotating base, so that it also rotates,from which current is produced.will it work, what's ur opinion?

It is not possible technically because there is no machine which output in more than input.
@Arp • 30 Sep, 2011 yr the power u produced by the fan is not at same frequency at which u give electrical power to the fan.
also due to the large air gap present between field thats on fan and stator winding that u want to hang from hook, flux going to be very very less
and if u try to increase it, u've to increase the size or the weight of magnet attached on fan blades this increases the power requirement
and as the frequency cant be matched as we vary the speed of fan so freq of ac supply in case u obtain ( even very small) is always going to be at different frequency and u really cant make appliance ( even the mobile charger) for that.
i think for this reason definitely we cant use it to produce elcrtricity
i'm waiting for any furthur suggestion .
@Prakashcrazy • 30 Sep, 2011 There are losses from one conversion to other hence efficiency goes down. Highest efficienct cycle is carnot cycle around 90 % thermal efficiency. otherwise this becomes perpertial motiom machine. This idea will depend how we design the mechanism for the same.
@tirumala • 07 Oct, 2011 hiiiii i want gate material if you have send to me plz
@parth 127 • 07 Oct, 2011
tirumala
hiiiii i want gate material if you have send to me plz

there is no need of the material dude you if you know all the subjects which you studied in 4 yrs its more than enough but you should know all the subjects deeply
@Shahed • 08 Oct, 2011 weight of magnet will not affect if we fix magnet in hook and couple it with fan using sliprings or some shaft.but how will you reduce friction loss..
@umar10 • 08 Oct, 2011 Open the fan , and use another nichrome coil , attach magnets to the rotating parts which would power back the nicchrome coil, the bigger the nichrome coil covering a bigger radius , the more power of the magnets can be utilisied.
@Akter Babu • 23 Oct, 2015 May be it is possible that through fan we can create little electricity which will help us to light a bulb.
That is from the same supply the fan will also run and we can convert the mechanical energy of the fan to electrical energy and without any extra waste of current we also can light a bulb....

If I am wrong, plz explain...
@Ramani Aswath • 23 Oct, 2015
Akter Babu
May be it is possible that through fan we can create little electricity which will help us to light a bulb.
You have to understand that it is better to light the bulb directly from the same source supplying the fan. Any conversion of the mechanical energy of the fan to electricity involves a less than unity efficiency (a result of the second law of thermodynamics) and so an infructuous exercise.
@Akter Babu • 24 Oct, 2015
A.V.Ramani
You have to understand that it is better to light the bulb directly from the same source supplying the fan. Any conversion of the mechanical energy of the fan to electricity involves a less than unity efficiency (a result of the second law of thermodynamics) and so an infructuous exercise.

Thanks ...
@Gireesh AR • 18 Feb, 2016 Hi Sir I am Gireesh from Bangalore, I am planning to to purchase one e bike where in its rear wheel there will be a motor and can I install a Dynamo and reproduce the power to run my rear wheel or charge the battery for Power supply(For its rear wheel motor?
)
@Ramani Aswath • 18 Feb, 2016
Gireesh AR
Hi Sir I am Gireesh from Bangalore, I am planning to to purchase one e bike where in its rear wheel there will be a motor and can I install a Dynamo and reproduce the power to run my rear wheel or charge the battery for Power supply(For its rear wheel motor?
)
Sorry, Gireesh. No free lunches in engineering. It's a perpetual motion machine of the second kind. Not possible.
@Balaji Blaze • 13 Mar, 2016 may be you can try making small wire windings at the end of fan blade and fix a electromagnet mear the fan's blade....soo when the blade rotates it produces an emf in the wing....cultivating that pwr is what u have to think
@Ramani Aswath • 13 Mar, 2016
Blaze2595
soo when the blade rotates it produces an emf in the wing..
What for? That power comes from the mains. With the very poor efficiency of the proposed system you will get much less power than going into the fan. Second Law of Thermodynamics always wins.
@Shivamyadav09 • 16 Mar, 2016 But sir using a gear mechanism in design will help
@nisarg kodinaria • 04 Jul, 2017 Auto Selection of Any Available Phase in 3 Phase Supply System
Q) what happens during overload condition or during peak time,if there is fault on R phase(which im using) Then which phase is auto selected by the device, as other phases i.e Y & B are at overload condition
Q) Is there any effect of overload condition?
plz helpme with this
A.V.Ramani
You are right. Your suggestion is also valid and does not vi
Camping Wind Turbine
@nisarg kodinaria • 22 Jul, 2017
A.V.Ramani
Of course you an. However, these are more scince fair curiosities which may not find actual use. What is the purpose of your project? Is it part of the curriculum? If so atwhat level? Unless some more information is given it is difficult to advise.
Auto Selection of Any Available Phase in 3 Phase Supply System
Q) what happens during overload condition or during peak time,if there is fault on R phase(which im using) Then which phase is auto selected by the device, as other phases i.e Y & B are at overload condition
Q) Is there any effect of overload condition?
plz helpme with this
A.V.Ramani
Of course you an. However, these are more scince fair curiosities which may not find actual use. What is the purpose of your project? Is it part of the curriculum? If so atwhat level? Unless some more information is given it is difficult to advise.
@Ramani Aswath • 22 Jul, 2017 The logic behind the circuit is unexplained in the site. If R Y B are all present, how does the circuit decide which goes to out put? Likewise if two phases are present, which of the two becomes the output?
I am trying to work around this. If anything strikes me I shall revert. There may be others here, who may have better ideas on this.
@nisarg kodinaria • 22 Jul, 2017 There is priority in that, normally R is first Y is second and B is third and inverter is out fourth priority. In this my only problem is OVERLOADING.if that is not SEVEAR
A.V.Ramani
The logic behind the circuit is unexplained in the site. If R Y B are all present, how does the circuit decide which goes to out put? Likewise if two phases are present, which of the two becomes the output?
I am trying to work around this. If anything strikes me I shall revert. There may be others here, who may have better ideas on this.then i found this usefull. Plz help me
@Ramani Aswath • 23 Jul, 2017 Such an R Y B priority does not matter ordinarily. If many such devices are in use then R will get overloaded followed by Y and B. The electricity supplier usually ensures that single phase users get balanced across R Y B.
Having said that, if a three phase consumer wants to ensure that some special load needs an uninterrupted supply, this sort of thing can be considered. Even for this, the far simpler solution is to use an UPS (not inverter). In this case the load is always on the out put of the UPS irrespective of what is happening to the input of the UPS. You can use the concept of switching between R Y B to the input to the UPS as an abundant precaution if the current supply phase is down. To take care of partial overload leading to lower voltage in any phase, design the charging circuit of the UPS with a voltage stabilizer.
The stabilizer itself will shut down when the overload becomes severe and the supply voltage drops below the lower limit for the stabilizer. When this happens, the selector circuit shifts the supply to whatever next supply is available from R Y B.
This gives four levels of redundancy.
@nisarg kodinaria • 23 Jul, 2017 Thank you very much sir for this useful information
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