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Abhishek Rawal
Abhishek Rawal • Jul 11, 2013

Do Indian Developers Lack Innovation ? Indian Developers Are Of Poor-Quality ?

Yesterday, a news popped out saying India will be overtaking US on number of developers . I don't know why, but I am not at all proud of the news. India, though have large pool of CS Engineers & Developers, we don't have any innovation !
What Indian developers are really lacking ? Are all developers here working only for benjamins or they really do care about innovations & interesting projects ?

I am not exposed to the jobs, So I can't really judge as I don't know how's the mentality of Indian developers.
So, all the CEans who have worked in software developing company, tell us what do you think ?
Are you enjoying your job ? Or is it same simple work of writing device drivers ?
Are you indulged in any project that makes you proud ?
Why there are billions of developers in India, but still not a single company to kill the world giants in this sector ?
Indian developers are of poor quality ?

Waiting for your response CEans. Don't sleep on this thread, do share the ugly-truth with us.
Mnm
Mnm • Jul 11, 2013
Indian Developers lack the basic thing.... Knowledge, the real technical knowledge. The most of the Indian Developers are dependent on the past inventions and technologies. They are just copying the basic idea from west and trying to make improvements in them. It is really sad and hard to believe because India produces a large number of Engineers every year but still we are trailing in the technical field from countries like Japan, U.S.A, china. The difference is that we store the quantity and they.......quality.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Jul 11, 2013
Yes, Indian software developers, in general terms, lack creativity and basic professionalism. There are a very few who can understand problems and come up with an awesome code to deliver it.

Even on CE, I've relied on developers abroad to deliver stuff. We were failed by uncountable 'Indian' developers.
Pensu
Pensu • Jul 11, 2013
Well, that's true, we do lack innovation. We are just cheap labors. Let me give you an example, the idea I am working on is not my lead's. He got the idea from some other company, I am going to code it and then it would be send to the company where the idea came from and they will sell it as a product. I don't know but 'money' might be a factor here 😕 . Innovation needs dedication and of-course it doesn't pay instantly. Our society respects rich. You can make the connection! One other big factor is our education system. Since the time of Lord Macaulay we are just producing clerks not the free thinkers/innovators.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Jul 11, 2013
My generalization won't go well with people. But I've not arrived at this conclusion in a day or two. I've seen, interacted with, observed the Indian developers and have even worked with a lot of them. I realized that most of the Indian developers are good at executing the tasks allotted to them. You need to tell them how to lay bricks and they'll do it like a pro. But give them the blu-print, bricks, cement and ask them to build a house - and they'll run away!

At least that's what my experience has been.

I'm not sure if I should even mention it here; but the fact is that the CEoM app was in development for long time with the developers quitting one after the other because they had to 'study' the platform from scratch. It wasn't something they were trained on. Everyone almost seem to hate 'self study'.

It took a French to deliver it well within time!

Sorry guys; this might look hard. But even on a community like CE; we still have to look for outside developers. No one came forward to develop an Android app for CE yet!
mail154
mail154 • Jul 14, 2013
Abhishek Rawal
Yesterday, a news popped out saying India will be overtaking US on number of developers . I don't know why, but I am not at all proud of the news. India, though have large pool of CS Engineers & Developers, we don't have any innovation !
What Indian developers are really lacking ? Are all developers here working only for benjamins or they really do care about innovations & interesting projects ?

I am not exposed to the jobs, So I can't really judge as I don't know how's the mentality of Indian developers.
So, all the CEans who have worked in software developing company, tell us what do you think ?
Are you enjoying your job ? Or is it same simple work of writing device drivers ?
Are you indulged in any project that makes you proud ?
Why there are billions of developers in India, but still not a single company to kill the world giants in this sector ?
Indian developers are of poor quality ?

Waiting for your response CEans. Don't sleep on this thread, do share the ugly-truth with us.

Who Said we don't have innovation??..Its Wrong.. The Things Which The Tech Giants Say By Looking With Pride Were Nothing But the Skill and Innovation of our Dear Country Men. There Entire Role In This Concept Was the Bunch of Papers Called Money..Thats all and I Totally Disagree that Indian Developers are of poor quality.. The Large Pool Of CS Professionals We Produce Are Not Up To The Standards But More Than That.! The Reason There is a not a single company to beat Giants is because the Professionals was selfish being placed in mnc's. But they are not the only side to blame..
Abhishek Rawal
Abhishek Rawal • Jul 14, 2013
mail154
Who Said we don't have innovation??..Its Wrong.. The Things Which The Tech Giants Say By Looking With Pride Were Nothing But the Skill and Innovation of our Dear Country Men. There Entire Role In This Concept Was the Bunch of Papers Called Money..Thats all and I Totally Disagree that Indian Developers are of poor quality.. The Large Pool Of CS Professionals We Produce Are Not Up To The Standards But More Than That.! The Reason There is a not a single company to beat Giants is because the Professionals was selfish being placed in mnc's. But they are not the only side to blame..
Believe me buddy, I have seen so many CS students who are not even capable of coding their own project with their own code in the last semester.
There's one attitude prevailing in Indian students & that is "Chalta hai yaar" "Chhodna yeh kaun dekhta hain?" which is the reason why we don't have any name in top 100 developers of the world.

We have large pool of developers, but why not any good projects ? Name me one Indian origin project. Not hating but, like Biggie said Indian developers are very good in working on readymade things, but when it comes in developing a project from scratch, all fails.
mail154
mail154 • Jul 14, 2013
Abhishek Rawal
Believe me buddy, I have seen so many CS students who are not even capable of coding their own project with their own code in the last semester.
There's one attitude prevailing in Indian students & that is "Chalta hai yaar" "Chhodna yeh kaun dekhta hain?" which is the reason why we don't have any name in top 100 developers of the world.

We have large pool of developers, but why not any good projects ? Name me one Indian origin project. Not hating but, like Biggie said Indian developers are very good in working on readymade things, but when it comes in developing a project from scratch, all fails.


Yes I Accept most of them were unable to code for their final exams..and some great college says them where to buy it....!!! We Do A Have These Kind of people but some of the other part were simply extraordinary.. These Type of people we fail to recognize where others do this perfectly...So they Got Benefited. If We Recognize and Inspire the talents then there would be a thread in CE "How this Indian Company Has Beat All of software Giants" ! 😀
Indian developers dont lack in innovation or creative area.But they lack in exposure.
Do you agree in this fact?
Abhishek Rawal
Abhishek Rawal • Jul 16, 2013
CSK AUTO
Indian developers dont lack in innovation or creative area.But they lack in exposure.
Do you agree in this fact?
What exposure do a student need ?
During academic, a student's objective is not just mugging the subject, they've to discover the new world on their own.
What kind of exposure is needed to a CS/IT Engineer to make an innovative project ? Elaborate your view, please.
Ok lets come straight to the point.As I'm a automobile student I will explain in my way.
If a college dont provide a good laboratory how can you expect a student to understand the basic working of every machines.Not all the students have the exposure we have got.for example , many students dont have a chance to buy a laptop or pc for their educational purpose.If the required thing reach the student very lately there is no worth in it.
Abhishek Rawal
Abhishek Rawal • Jul 16, 2013
We're debating on developers, so we'll focus on CS/IT field only.
I honestly don't think there's any CS/IT student with a laptop. I think that all colleges do provide free internet services.So, now who's stopping anyone to google it & learn ? You know what's problem ?
Now-a-days students need readymade collection of notes which teaches them this or that subject.They don't wanna collect & assemble the resources on their own.
How many Engineers know a subject which is not in the syllabus but is related to their Engineering discipline ?
coooooooooooooolllllllllllllllll bro.I agree to your point.Its because of lack of interest to find a new thing
😁
Very interesting question and debate, Rather than generalizing on what others are doing or not doing, if we start questioning atleast now, i think we can make things better!

If we all question now and do what are we doing with 100 % concentration and innovation we can develop the next application on CE!

As far as i know, I dont want to talk about others. But I was earning some money doing manual testing but that lacks innovation and creativity so I learnt automation and working on it on my own I am doing my effort to feel a bit proud on what i am doing.

Now dont ask me a question , if this is my passion. I dont know about that yet.

So we have to do some work to feel proud and happy than concentrating only on money. That way probably we will feel happy and someday we can be listed in developers.

Same example here, I feel happy sharing something informative or innovative on CE..
mail154
mail154 • Jul 16, 2013
Though I Accept Abhishek Rawal's point that most of them were unknown apart from their academic subjects which they should know as they are related to their discipline...But Truely Believe me buddy still a CS/IT student is unable to get the things which you've mentioned...The Colleges at a local level doesn't provide free internet services but collect for it directly or indirectly...! Not Only The Developers(Once Students) Were to blame! 😀 Truely I Believe In Lack Of Exposure to them and also there will be some who doesn't care about education at all or the discipline which they've chosen..Lack Of interest also a major cause...

CSK AUTO
Indian developers dont lack in innovation or creative area.But they lack in exposure.
Do you agree in this fact?

Yes! I Truely Agree upto some extent...but the basic problem of all these was due to the persons who opting for CSE unwillingly..as said earlier many of them were unable to code a simple one 😀 . but this mark can't put on the whole bunch
Jeffrey Arulraj
Jeffrey Arulraj • Jul 17, 2013
WELL innovation comes with curiosity which is killed in a very early age in India

Without curiosity even though you have rally high tech knowledge you can't work out of the box to develop your own stuff
Abhishek Rawal
Abhishek Rawal • Jul 17, 2013
Conqueror
WELL innovation comes with curiosity which is killed in a very early age in India

Without curiosity even though you have rally high tech knowledge you can't work out of the box to develop your own stuff
Well, I don't think curiosity is 'killed'. Unfortunately, now-a-days Engineering students are opting for Engineering for huge income after graduation & not for love for any discipline of Engineering.
As they're opting Engineering for money only, they won't be interested in the subjects & thus no output. It's simply not possible to acquire the curiosity for the subject which I don't like, that's the real problem in Engineering students.

BTW I believe Engineering students should be given the options to choose one domain within their discipline, example : In Electronics there's Communication Engineering,Embedded Systems, VLSI,etc. I like Embedded Systems, so from 5th semester onwards all subject should be related on Embedded systems only.I don't enjoy learning about Digital communication, I am planning to make my future in Embedded systems, so why the hell should i learn ECOM,DCOM & SatCOM ?

Sad thing is, In Electronics Engineering, The course for Embedded systems during academics is very low-level. Simply 8085 & 8051, mp & mc resp. now that's dis-heartening!
mail154
mail154 • Jul 18, 2013
Abhishek Rawal
Well, I don't think curiosity is 'killed'. Unfortunately, now-a-days Engineering students are opting for Engineering for huge income after graduation & not for love for any discipline of Engineering.
As they're opting Engineering for money only, they won't be interested in the subjects & thus no output. It's simply not possible to acquire the curiosity for the subject which I don't like, that's the real problem in Engineering students.

Curiosity is not killed..Yes Students Opt for Huge Income Only. But We Also Have to make the necessary opportunities if some students take their interested field so that they can make their life safe. for example a students has like towards a field say chemical engineering or plastic technology,we have no opportunities as in IT or other engineering disciplines. so they feared of their future and follow the pattern. we have to eradicate that fear and make themselves comfortable with their interest of study.until then nothing would happen. The guilt they carry over their mind for four years and then after that they should have chosen that field of study, will not let them to be good at this discipline. Commonly as IT has more economic opportunity they choose it and suffer at the end..this is the cycle of poor IT professionals..no one whose passion is CS/IT would fail or be of poor quality after graduation..
I would like to say just one point - India now is the world's largest exporter of Services and that includes mostly the Information tech/ software. And at the same time India's major contributor to its GDP is the Services sector 👍. In my view, World is not a fool to import poor quality services from India 😀
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Aug 22, 2013
@Sada - India gets business for two main reasons -

1. It's cheap.
2. It speaks English better than others - makes it easier to do business with Indians.

Quality? No point in talking 'quality' if the job is of 'laying bricks' under some fancy technology name. If Indians are taking pride in being 'highest quality servants', I see no hope for this country than becoming the slaves of the entire world.
Abhishek Rawal
Abhishek Rawal • Aug 22, 2013
@Sada we're at totem-pole in terms of providing 'service', but here I am talking about 'development & innovations'.
Like Biggie said :
Kaustubh Katdare
I've seen, interacted with, observed the Indian developers and have even worked with a lot of them. I realized that most of the Indian developers are good at executing the tasks allotted to them. You need to tell them how to lay bricks and they'll do it like a pro. But give them the blu-print, bricks, cement and ask them to build a house - and they'll run away!
At least that's what my experience has been.

I'm not sure if I should even mention it here; but the fact is that the CEoM app was in development for long time with the developers quitting one after the other because they had to 'study' the platform from scratch. It wasn't something they were trained on. Everyone almost seem to hate 'self study'.

It took a French to deliver it well within time!

Sorry guys; this might look hard. But even on a community like CE; we still have to look for outside developers. No one came forward to develop an Android app for CE yet!
Why there is no Indian project related to IT/CS & even Electronics, which is developed by Indian developers.
I have been watching kernel mailing list for quite long time & Indian developers surely are there & contributing good, but those are the one who are residing out of India.

In the end, a question : If Indian developers are really uber, then why there is no good IT/CS/ECE related companies ? I mean why don't we have ARM,Adobe,Google,etc.etc. ? Why are we stucked in writing drivers for 'em ?
@Kaustubh Katdare Yes you are right.
Good manpower who work quickly for cheap and with good english is the advantage. And also the fine quality services. Of course compared to developed countries our quality of services is less but compared to other third world countries we are not that bad. We are fine enough.

Regarding "India is overtaking US on the no of developers" - you better compare the population, economy, development, education also.
Abhishek Rawal
@Sada we're at totem-pole in terms of providing 'service', but here I am talking about 'development & innovations'.
Like Biggie said :


Why there is no Indian project related to IT/CS & even Electronics, which is developed by Indian developers.
I have been watching kernel mailing list for quite long time & Indian developers surely are there & contributing good, but those are the one who are residing out of India.

In the end, a question : If Indian developers are really uber, then why there is no good IT/CS/ECE related companies ? I mean why don't we have ARM,Adobe,Google,etc.etc. ? Why are we stucked in writing drivers for 'em ?
There are world ranking companies in India too. TCS, Wipro, Infosys, L & T, Mahindra satyam, tech mahindra, HCL etc.
Please don't let us down ourselves. India is not that bad that all you are thinking. There are few problems that the Govt is not concerned out and they are not only confined to India but are also to all other countries.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Aug 23, 2013
It's not a question of being good or bad. India *IS* treated as one of the 'third world' countries and despite all the so called talent, India continues to be a 'developing' nation. I'm not blaming the Indian talent - it's just that they are all busy taking pride in doing stuff they aren't meant to be doing. It's just 'now' that there are companies (especially the startups) that have began working on actual 'advancement & development' of technology. The percentage of such people is extremely small. Take Israel for example, a country tinier than most of the Indian states is #2 in the world for the startups they've created. Trust me, the technology they've been working on is eye popping! People don't even know the stuff they've been using is actually made in Israel.

So far, Indian developers have lacked innovation. Indian companies have taken pride in becoming the 'support & services' providers for the other countries and doing all the work for less than 1/3d of the costs (or even lesser).

With a few exceptions, most of our engineers have become clerks for the whole world. If they are taking pride in that; I've no further comments to make.
Abhishek Rawal
Abhishek Rawal • Aug 23, 2013
@Sada I am not letting down ourselves. I simply think that if you can't criticize yourself, you can't improve.
I have never seen any of the companies you've mentioned have 'created' something innovative which fills up my chest with proud & I can say that this shit is Indian origin, you know.

I think 'Government support' is just lame excuse, because if companies like 'Micromaxx' can come up from nothing, then many other rich companies like Reliance, Airtel, Tata can.
Nayan Goenka
Nayan Goenka • Aug 24, 2013
It is not that Indian Developers lack innovation or imagination. In fact one of the things that helped India boom upto a great extent is the IT sector. But nowadays, developers are satisfied with fixed but limited salary, working hours and corporate charm. The MNCs are extracting all the donkey work from them and they are happy to do it. They are not supposed to over think at workplaces and this has made the market stagnant. What innovations and ideas should convert into is start-ups. There is the real development.
Its really because we give service at the best price and best service.Its not that we lack innovation its only because we lack investers on the worthy projects and future prediction is very low between the investers.
Abhishek Rawal
Abhishek Rawal • Aug 24, 2013
CSK AUTO
Its really because we give service at the best price and best service.Its not that we lack innovation its only because we lack investers on the worthy projects and future prediction is very low between the investers.
The innovation doesn't need 'investors', it just needs bunch of developers who can work in a team & develop something ill.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Aug 24, 2013
Which 'worthy' projects have been left unfunded? Investors are out there with money on their hands ready to fund kick-ass projects. If investors aren't interested, people can always 'crowdfund' their projects.

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