CE - Project Related Ideas & Discussions

Kaustubh Katdare · 2006-10-10T16:46:06+00:00

This thread is dedicated to the discussions & ideas related to the first online CE project that the Crazy Engineers wish to start. Before we actually begin to work on the project, we will have to wait till we have a better structure on the forums as well as a thorough knowledge of what are we actually planning to do. For the first project, let us stick to the following points- It should not be a big project with 100 modules. Idea is to be confident that we can actually make a project successful. It will give us confidence as well. Let us keep it very simple. It will attract more people to get started. Once we sail through 2-3 projects, we'll move forward to 'Innovation'! For the time being, all ideas for the CE-Project should be posted on this thread. Let us do a good job & have fun -The Big K-

xheavenlyx

@xheavenlyx-CbvN62 • Oct 11, 2006

A question which has been disturbing from yeasterday is that, how will we assign members to make a practical model, if we do think of that.

Or do we just work on the modules and write detailed reports on it. Individually we might simulate the modules, but cant excessivly since every module is needed for a full working.

Clear this please.

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Kaustubh Katdare

@thebigk • Oct 11, 2006

xheavenlyx
A question which has been disturbing from yeasterday is that, how will we assign members to make a practical model, if we do think of that.

Or do we just work on the modules and write detailed reports on it. Individually we might simulate the modules, but cant excessivly since every module is needed for a full working.

Clear this please.

Your post mentions one of the probable obstacle which CE project will face. But it can be tackled. First of all, let us be clear that the First CE project will be a little software *product*. We'll make it available for download once we are ready with something which can 'run' as a product.

This is my idea (Its very generic & open to debate) -

Each CEan who is willing to work on the project, takes ownership of a module.
He/she will follow the coding guidelines which the whole team will come up with.
One or two CEans will integrate all the modules and do the debugging if needed.
We will create a separate project place to host stuff. There are a few available. I'll do the needful, so relax.

-The Big K-

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xheavenlyx

@xheavenlyx-CbvN62 • Oct 12, 2006

I agree with you bigie. Lets see what comes up, if anyone has an idea post it on. Im looking into something too presently. Let you know when I myself can makeout what Im thinking😀

Good luck all!

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Mahesh

@mahesh-wLPhv2 • Oct 12, 2006

Great idea Biggie.I want know what are the requirements to do the project? Is it sufficient to have knowledge on basic languages like C andC++?

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Neha

@neha-3vibjn • Oct 13, 2006

I guess we should start a project in C/C++ only coz these are the basic languages which almost every engineer is aware of.
But the question on the selection of the team still arises as we don't know anything regarding the programming level of team members.

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Kaustubh Katdare

@thebigk • Oct 13, 2006

Neha
I guess we should start a project in C/C++ only coz these are the basic languages which almost every engineer is aware of.
But the question on the selection of the team still arises as we don't know anything regarding the programming level of team members.

This probably highlights the reason why I want more CEans to be active on forums. Shall we do a survey of those interested in such a project?

Let me drop my idea of first CE project -

CE - Messenger: I'm a fan of instant messengers. How if we make our own instant messenger? I'm talking about a very basic messenger to start with. It will be available for all and also help us in brand building 😁

Can we have any innovative ideas for the CE - Messenger?

-The Big K-

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xheavenlyx

@xheavenlyx-CbvN62 • Oct 13, 2006

I'll post some questions to ponder on so its easier for CE-ns to get an idea of what we can make of CE- Messenger. I just love the idea😀

# A software package for download? A Visual C++ made messenger?
# Simple Java based sofware for downlaod?
# an IRC chat channel opening in a new window, faster!

Personaly, as biggie also feels, we can have a software based CE- messenger. To learn the basic idea #-Link-Snipped-# might be resourceful.

Regards!

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rick

@rick-JybHX8 • Oct 13, 2006

I am game for it! I do not use messenger but I think its a great idea to have our own messenger 😀

As Biggie says, let us keep it very simple. Wow, I am excited about it now 😁 !

CE ROCKS 😁

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Kaustubh Katdare

@thebigk • Oct 15, 2006

xheavenlyx
I'll post some questions to ponder on so its easier for CE-ns to get an idea of what we can make of CE- Messenger. I just love the idea😀

# A software package for download? A Visual C++ made messenger?
# Simple Java based sofware for downlaod?
# an IRC chat channel opening in a new window, faster!

Personaly, as biggie also feels, we can have a software based CE- messenger. To learn the basic idea #-Link-Snipped-# might be resourceful.

Regards!

Thanks for the link, xHx. Of course we want it to be a downloadable client. I love the clean interface of Gtalk messenger. Let's have something similar. I expect the project to start sometime in December 2006.

More ideas are welcome.

-The Big K-

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desijays

@desijays-2SqnUc • Nov 15, 2006

Honestly, I don't find a reason why this thread has been dormant for over a month now. I mean ideas were coming up fast and and a sudden stop!!!. But I suppose its merely a case of a less number of participants. I don't think that should be a problem.

I actually like the idea of a messenger. its really cool.

I think we should follow upon this without giving up. It would be a shame to stop that which has been started.

come on guys, pitch in with your ideas. it doesn't have to be messenger. if there is anything else you could come up with, well and fine. Ofcourse, as long as the complexity involed doesn't exponentiate beyond what can be done with the least amount of hassle.

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Kaustubh Katdare

@thebigk • Nov 15, 2006

Hey desijays!

Of course we are not giving it up! We need more active members to actually start a project and work on it. This is important because we don't want to stop the project even if members leave in between (highly possible).

Instant Messenger is widely used application and I think it'll be fun to use our own messenger to communicate with CEans. Let us first gain confidence by actually coming up with an executable. We need to finalize the idea first. I assume everyone is excited about CE-Messenger concept.

Let us hope that more CEans join the CE Messenger team 😀

-The Big K-

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Neha

@neha-3vibjn • Nov 17, 2006

Chatting with your own messenger...Sounds great!!

Count me in..

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aashima

@aashima-eO93l9 • Nov 17, 2006

Well Instant massenger would be a nice project to get started with. Though I have so far studied only C language but even if we decide to make it in some other language, I would love to be there for any possible help.
Lets get the basic structure as soon as possible. What say?

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desijays

@desijays-2SqnUc • Nov 18, 2006

i got my tests around the corner. will be busy for 2 weeks. after that i'm all game. ive already thought about the basic structure the program will take.

i have always thought that the best way to stand out in a crowd is to not do the most obvious thing. Or in other words try to be that yellow rose in a garden of red roses.

so along the same lines i was just thinking, that instead of going for an extravagent GUI and such why don't we start with a CLI application. a couple of reasons...

1 ) sounds technical and geeky. especially if an onlooker looks at us, he would think we're some kind of hacker or something. but this is the least of the necessities. read on..

2 ) will be plain, bare, slick and minimum with all the expected functionalities. not a bloat like yahoo or msn messenger.

3 ) no hassles with deciding or using a graphics library. if at all the need arises eventually we can make it as a seperate binary that interfaces with the cli, simulating the commands we type.

4 ) can be made a portable application without warranting registry entries in windows and will be a self contained binary in linux. (ex: portable vlc, opera portable one-use )

5 ) we can add all the features we want. dcc, voip, friends list.. and so on and so forth. we can also add exclusive functionality that wont be found anywhere else. interesting ideas from all of you would help in this dept. inline scripting would be one, for advanced users of this messenger. the ability to customize their version of the messenger the way they want it to, without delving into the source. if the messenger is intented to be closed source, then this is the way to go. yahoo, msn and stuff don't provide such functionality. thats why anyday anytime, there will always be more users in IRC compared to yahoo or msn. thats just an example. we can come up with other interesting things.

6) and finally if we find that the cli is a little too primitive we can always switch to a gui. not a problem. but in all honesty, i have found cli applications to provide far more freedom than gui apps.

in due course, to supplement all of the above, we would have by default created a proprietary application level protocol. Imagine having our own RFC documenting this protocol. That would be cool.

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Kaustubh Katdare

@thebigk • Nov 19, 2006

Now that's something! 😀

CLI sounds promising; but I'm concerned about its ease of use. To begin with, we don't want kick-butt GUI; we can do something similar to Gtalk (well, we definitely don't want to be copy cats).

'Innovation' is step#2! First of all we want to make sure & be confident that we can actually do such a project online. Possibilities are infinite, you see. Innovation will come with 1000s of Crazy Brains join hands.

Comments Please! 😁

-The Big K-

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desijays

@desijays-2SqnUc • Nov 19, 2006

The_Big_K
Innovation will come with 1000s of Crazy Brains join hands.
-The Big K-

we need one crazy brain to ignite the spark...;-)

Like i said lets start plain, easy and simple. CLI is just an option. The moment we realize people are finding it difficult, we can always switch to a GUI.

Besides, there is nothing crazy about using a messenger that has a kiss-ass GUI when the rest of the world is doing the same. We are CE'ans after all !!!!! ;-)

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Kaustubh Katdare

@thebigk • Nov 19, 2006

desijays
we need one crazy brain to ignite the spark...;-)

Like i said lets start plain, easy and simple. CLI is just an option. The moment we realize people are finding it difficult, we can always switch to a GUI.

Besides, there is nothing crazy about using a messenger that has a kiss-ass GUI when the rest of the world is doing the same. We are CE'ans after all !!!!! ;-)

😁 😁 😁

I'll keep my mouth shut and wait for other CEans to comment.

-The Big K-
p.s: Ssshh! :sshhh: We have an independent section in the new CE Forum Structure. Few more days to go!

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xheavenlyx

@xheavenlyx-CbvN62 • Nov 19, 2006

Hay desijay why dont you build one for us. Since its 'kiss-ass' easy. Then we could make something else 😀 What do you say Biggie?? Agree?

And well, since the messenger is easy, next we can try to make something like microsoft netmeeting which can help us sync CE projects with filesharing, voice, and common distributed database. And this one we can do under you guidence desijay. What do you say biggie? Agree?

😀 I aint mocking, im serious...really..ive been waiting to see this happen for long now and its already been late. Now ill get back to climbing my stairs without trying to teleport...

😁

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xheavenlyx

@xheavenlyx-CbvN62 • Nov 19, 2006

Whata CLI? And well, if GUI is easy then we can take it a notch up to something more interactive like a VPN application for CEns. We can create a VPN by hamachi sofware...its been used to play games under LAN thru the internet. What do you say?

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desijays

@desijays-2SqnUc • Nov 20, 2006

CLI - Command Line Interface
--------------------------------

Its one of the means used to make your windows box or linux box do your bidding. Instead of clicking all over the place, you type commands at a prompt and the box executes those commands for you..

A prompt might look like this...

$ - if using bash in linux
c:\> - if using dos prompt

At the prompt you type commands and the box executes that command using any parameters that you might given it..

example:

c:\> dir -----------> will give a list of all files at root.

There are many such commands in dos. Even more if you're using a linux box.

As far as integrating hamachi functionality, I don't see much difference between it and say a conference connection in the context of a messenger. I stress again "context of messenger". Cos I know there is a big difference.

None the less........,

VPN functionality for a messenger would be over kill. But then I don't see a reason why it shouldn't be done. Especially if it eventually molds itself into something un-messengerly ;-). After all, crazy is the name of the game ;-).

But before that xheaven mate, lets first get of the runway. Then we can fly anywhere we want.!!! 😀

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Neha

@neha-3vibjn • Nov 20, 2006

desijays
CLI - Command Line Interface
--------------------------------

Its one of the means used to make your windows box or linux box do your bidding. Instead of clicking all over the place, you type commands at a prompt and the box executes those commands for you..

A prompt might look like this...

$ - if using bash in linux
c:\> - if using dos prompt

At the prompt you type commands and the box executes that command using any parameters that you might given it..

example:

c:\> dir -----------> will give a list of all files at root.

There are many such commands in dos. Even more if you're using a linux box.

As far as integrating hamachi functionality, I don't see much difference between it and say a conference connection in the context of a messenger. I stress again "context of messenger". Cos I know there is a big difference.

None the less........,

VPN functionality for a messenger would be over kill. But then I don't see a reason why it shouldn't be done. Especially if it eventually molds itself into something un-messengerly ;-). After all, crazy is the name of the game ;-).

But before that xheaven mate, lets first get of the runway. Then we can fly anywhere we want.!!! 😀

Can you explain what is VPN functionality? And why should it not be used?

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aashima

@aashima-eO93l9 • Nov 20, 2006

Well CLI is a good option to start with. I have been doing the Linting of the CLI code in my training period so can go for it here as well. Though linting is a latter task, we first need to design the base code.

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xheavenlyx

@xheavenlyx-CbvN62 • Nov 24, 2006

@desi: Thanks for the explaination. I didnt realise all those lil itsy-bity progies ive been writing in Cor Qbasic are CLI's in windows.

Well, its good. First we take off then upgrade. And count me in, since I am comfortable using CLI (recently). And moreover, what we learn from there we can impliment in GUI later on.

So for now we stick to CLI.

and @Neha VPN is a virtual Private Network which forms kind of a LAN connection b.w the users even if they are connected thru the net. File transfers/access etc is easier that way. I have really no idea about the programming part or even the theory so ill leave it at that.

ok, getting on to the CLI.

The points you have given on your previous post Desi, ive been thinking of something...

* A CLI app which is standalone as you said. Portable without disturbing reg.
* Create kind of an interface which can accept "add-on" and "extentions" to expand the existing functionality. This could be achieved by making .dll's / .ocx's / .CEx (our own format!!) and then updating the main CLI to run these new functions. (someone explain how this is done normally.)

Before i suggest some functions i want to know, will we be using a 24/7 server to store somethin...or will we connect to each other like a P2P? i am a layman on networking...so if desi could write a small technical tutorial on ways of communication etc, it would be reallyy helpful, (you know how to explain!)

so for now, this is from me...Let the ideas flow in!!!!!!!

Regards!

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desijays

@desijays-2SqnUc • Nov 25, 2006

xheavenlyx
The points you have given on your previous post Desi, ive been thinking of something...

* A CLI app which is standalone as you said. Portable without disturbing reg.
* Create kind of an interface which can accept "add-on" and "extentions" to expand the existing functionality. This could be achieved by making .dll's / .ocx's / .CEx (our own format!!) and then updating the main CLI to run these new functions. (someone explain how this is done normally.)

Before i suggest some functions i want to know, will we be using a 24/7 server to store somethin...or will we connect to each other like a P2P? i am a layman on networking...so if desi could write a small technical tutorial on ways of communication etc, it would be reallyy helpful, (you know how to explain!)

so for now, this is from me...Let the ideas flow in!!!!!!!

Regards!

Regarding your analogy of plugins, is quite interesting. It allows more customization, and gives the power to write your own plugins as well, if you wanna go that deep. But in this case, let us refer to them as 'modules'. Cos i think the word 'plugins' has been abused too much..

From what I've learnt so far from the other CE'ans on the forums, I believe the requirements for a CE messenger will have to satisfy some of the following conditions..

1) Must facilitate intelluctual communication (ex: IRC). Not just personal (ex: yahoo, msn )

2) Must augment the website in such a way, that the users should feel at home, such that there should be minimal distinction between the messenger and the website as far as aesthetics is concerned. Trust me. Aesthetics is very important.

3) It must be able to do most of what can be done in IRC. Implementing them module wise is very viable and might prove surprisingly interesting. VOiP, though far off right now, shouldn't be omitted completely. Skype is like yahoo and msn in the VOiP segment. As far as I know, there is no IRC equivalent for VOiP. Maybe we can fill in that niche.

4) For the interface, I would still prefer it be CLI. But like you say heavenly, if a GUI could be added as a module, that would be perfect. So that way, those who want CLI use CLI. Those who want GUI, use GUI. Simple.

5) xheavenly, this is in regards to your last question, with regards to the network topology that we should think about using. Being the most important aspect of the messenger, I don't think we should use Client/Server mode. In my opinion p2p is the way to go. Im not talking about a hybrid. I mean a true p2p, that can scale itself accordingly. i'll give you the reasons...

Client/Server

---> Network solely depends on a server.

---> Server gone, network gone.

---> Needs hardware implementation( server ) along with sofware implementation.

---> Cost of server.

---> Not economically scalable. If more users join, another server becomes necessary.

---> Maintaining a centralized database is a cause for security concern.

---> If the server that hosts the database is hacked, network comes down. What's worse is that, if our login and registration details are stored in the database, then that becomes public as well.

---> I know we need not think about all this right now. But this concern will have to be addressed one day. Better now than later. Better be safe than sorry.

Now in the following i'll describe the kind of network setup that I think we must use. It is similar to p2p, but optimized for our kind of communication. Here is the abstract..

---> Let us assume there is CE'an 'A' using the CE messenger. Since he is the first to start the network, lets call him the soul.

---> He sends a broadcast signal ( multicast packet ) of his SYN flags ( TCP protocol, RFC # - 793 ) at regular intervals.

---> Just google RFC protocol # 793. You'll understand. Its too long to describe here. Sorry about it.

---> The broadcast signal consists of 'A's public ip address and a standardized port he is listening on. Lets assume for CE messenger its gonna be 7251.

---> Another CE'an called 'B' is using his messenger and it is already listening for a broadcast packet from the standardized port.

---> 'B' has already sent his broadcast packet. Now, whoever gets the other's broadcast packet first, will send a SYN-ACK flag acknowledgement to the IP address that 'A' or 'B' will receive. (Again plz see RFC 793. Its too long)

---> If 'A' receives the broadcast first, then it sends an ACK flag to 'B'. Now connection is established.

---> If 'B' receives the broadcast first, then it sends an ACK flag to 'A'. Now connection is established.

---> Since 'A' and 'B' are connected, they can chat, share files (dcc mode), VOiP, VPN... and other modules that we may implement.

---> Now that both of them are connected, they will draft a real time database of all the users that are connected to each other.

---> In this case 'A' will have a database saying it is connected to 'B' and 'B' will have a database saying it is connected to 'A'

---> Here the database doesn't have to be SQL, Oracle or anything exotic like that initially. A simple text file will do, just with the user ip and name. No need for port address. That is same for all peers.

---> Now if another CE'an 'C' wants to connect. He does the same procedure of sending a broadcast packet.

---> But this time the response will be different.

---> After 'C' sends his broadcast packet, either 'A' or 'B' will get it first.

---> If 'A' gets it first, it won't send an SYN-ACK flag to 'C'. On the contrary, it will send the database instead. Now 'C' has a choice of choosing to connect with either of the CE'ans in the database

---> 'C' can choose to connect to the nearest CE'an. This can be performed on the basis of network optimization

---> Like this more and more users can be connected to each other while simultaneously balancing the load while more and more people join.

---> The only problem here is with the soul CE'an. If the soul is in the US and the only other CE'an is in India, then they will have to wait for hours before they can connect cos they have to go through all the gateways between them before connecting.

---> That is the only problem I can think of for now.

Some of the advantages of using a p2p system would be

---> Network doesn't solely depend on a server. Because there is no server

---> No network down time. As long as there is still a single peer remaining, the network is still alive.

---> No hardware implementatino required. All the necessary hardware needed is provided by the CE'ans themselves in the form of their computers. No extra bandwidth required. Remember, as the number of people connecting increases, the bandwidth available to the network increases proportionally. In my opinion, this is the best feature of p2p. In client/server, it is impossible to achieve this.

#-Link-Snipped-#

#-Link-Snipped-#

---> Server cost is out of the question

---> Economically it is very scalable. As the number of CE'ans the price doesn't increase. Infact, i dont see a reason to believe that there would be any cost associated with it at all.

---> There is no centralized database. Each peer will only have a list of those peers it is connected to. So eaves dropping becomes a challenge.

---> As an icing on the cake, I don't think there is any other software that serves the purpose of messenger, using p2p...... 😉

What I have said above is not set in stone. It is open to peer review. All that I have said is just the tip of the ice burg. There are many details i have omitted. The reasons being that, I, myself might be unaware of them. We will run into many implementation problems once we start. My description is solely based on topology. Performance issues may arise if it might be implemented as is. It will have to go through repetitive rounds of refinement to get the best combination of performance, scalability, security and feasability. For that, we will need to fix some holes.

I guess, what Im trying to say is that we need more people to pitch in with their ideas to choose the one that will suit our purpose.

Side Note:

I tried to make it as clear as possible. Sometimes understanding from reading text alone, can be hard. That is why I have drawn 2 jpegs. Check them out. It might help your understanding. If i had an opportunity to talk, I would be able to make you all understand easily. I'll probably get that opportunity sometime later. 😀 Until then Peace.

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Kaustubh Katdare

@thebigk • Nov 26, 2006

That was super, desijays!

1) Must facilitate intelluctual communication (ex: IRC). Not just personal (ex: yahoo, msn )

Sounds good. Initially we might open it for CEans with @crazyengineers.com ID.

2) Must augment the website in such a way, that the users should feel at home, such that there should be minimal distinction between the messenger and the website as far as aesthetics is concerned. Trust me. Aesthetics is very important.

*Nods*. That is right. We may use simple red & white.

3) It must be able to do most of what can be done in IRC. Implementing them module wise is very viable and might prove surprisingly interesting. VOiP, though far off right now, shouldn't be omitted completely. Skype is like yahoo and msn in the VOiP segment. As far as I know, there is no IRC equivalent for VOiP. Maybe we can fill in that niche.

No doubt interesting. I strongly believe that we should keep this out of the first release. Let us first finalize the RC1 features, say what? Can anyone of us work on this?

And it makes perfect sense for us to make it p2p!

To Do List :-

1. Find a project hosting service (Google offers one, I heard. Do you know any other service which will allow us to host our own project space?)

2. Pull CEans into CE - Project. I'm not sure how to do this. Maybe we can ask our friends who might be interested? Ideas, anyone?

-The Big K-

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Jerry

@jerry-5wPKU7 • Nov 28, 2006

The_Big_K
To Do List :-

1. Find a project hosting service (Google offers one, I heard. Do you know any other service which will allow us to host our own project space?)

2. Pull CEans into CE - Project. I'm not sure how to do this. Maybe we can ask our friends who might be interested? Ideas, anyone?

-The Big K-

Biggie & everyone!

We all must concentrated on TO Do # 2 ! In order to be successful, we definitely need more CEans. I recommend that we should form a CE Promoter Team.

If this post looks odd in this discussion, biggie please move this thread to some other place. I couldn't stop myself from expressing my concern 😉

What do you think, everyone? CE Promoter Team?

Jerry

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Jerry

@jerry-5wPKU7 • Nov 28, 2006

The_Big_K
To Do List :-

1. Find a project hosting service (Google offers one, I heard. Do you know any other service which will allow us to host our own project space?)

2. Pull CEans into CE - Project. I'm not sure how to do this. Maybe we can ask our friends who might be interested? Ideas, anyone?

-The Big K-

Biggie & everyone!

We all must concentrate on TO Do # 2 ! In order to be successful, we definitely need more CEans. I recommend that we should form a CE Promoter Team.

If this post looks odd in this discussion, biggie please move this thread to some other place. I couldn't stop myself from expressing my concern 😉

What do you think, everyone? CE Promoter Team?

Jerry

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xheavenlyx

@xheavenlyx-CbvN62 • Nov 30, 2006

That was a really good explaination! 😀 and thanks for clearing the p2p and cl/ser based systems.

Ill get right on the analysis:

1. What do you think, if you and whoever is interested can try to modify/learnfrom/recode an existing Open source p2p client? I am not asking to copy it. just to get used to the programming.

Here are 2 links:

IBM P2P 1. #-Link-Snipped-#
TIPIC msgnr (uses its server) 2. #-Link-Snipped-#

2. Im thinking if we have a CLI, then we should have more functionality and a good managemnt. But, some GUIs can be considered L33t too 😀

3. Before anything, I guess first we have to be sure, what all functions we need in it, what can it do, and then next, what will it look like. We FOR now discuss ONLY about this. This is my list. Others are encouraged to add/remove and comment about it!

Example:

1. Functions:

Basic Text communication
File Transfer
Current Event list (todo, active projects, pipeline projects, getogether events, blah blah) (updating this list is ur probelm lol)
Latest in CE forum (shows active, new threads from CE site)
Module addition (thanks for the term, not add-on 😀 )

2. Fucntion Possibilities

Voip
IRC access

2. UI (user interface)

GUI (Must preferable, cuz it will be much productive with all these functions.
CLI pannel! Like a console in the GUI. What do you think?
Tabs for each function (blah, we can think of this later)
Java implimented so its OS independent? (wow!)

/EXAMPLE

I think if we make this simple, we can have more time for other projects whihc are equally interesting. All can then be packaged as a CEProduction 😁

And lastly sorry for the late reply...college has been buisy and finals are near😀

Thanks again desi ( And here is a link for all the possible rfcs for our CEians : #-Link-Snipped-# there are about 3500+!!)
Cheers all, Take care

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aushinaire

@aushinaire-u5xacc • Dec 1, 2006

this topic seems to be really picking up ...sounds promising !
i'm not clear about one point in the p2p scenario tho.. does the fact tht 'C' connects to either 'A' or 'B' have any significance? if this is a pure p2p network and there's no central node orchestrating the whole session(likein a hybrid version), what would happen to 'C' if the node it had connected to went offline? would it hav to go thru the whole connection procedure with anothr node taken frm its database? wouldnt this result in some instability?

and here's a link tht might be useful.. #-Link-Snipped-#
[Sun added classes to the Java technology to speed the development of peer-to-peer applications quickly in the late 1990s so that developers could build decentralized real time chat applets and applications before Instant Messaging networks were popular. This effort is now being continued with the JXTA project.]

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desijays

@desijays-2SqnUc • Dec 3, 2006

aushinaire
this topic seems to be really picking up ...sounds promising !
i'm not clear about one point in the p2p scenario tho.. does the fact tht 'C' connects to either 'A' or 'B' have any significance? if this is a pure p2p network and there's no central node orchestrating the whole session(likein a hybrid version), what would happen to 'C' if the node it had connected to went offline? would it hav to go thru the whole connection procedure with anothr node taken frm its database? wouldnt this result in some instability?

Now this is something I overlooked. I didn't realize such a complication might arise, if such a situation occurred. This is what I meant when I said "PEER REVIEW" or 'Collaboration' is paramount if anything useful is to be done. Aushinaire mate, thanks for pointing that discrepancy.

Like you say, if prospect 'C' lost his connection, then he might have to go through the whole connection process with a look-up from his internal database.

But if you read my prior post and extrapolate, it to include a few more users in the network, you will realize while 'C' is connected to 'A', there will be other clients connected to 'C'. Even if any one of those clients are connected to the network, then consequently 'C' will not loose its connection. But there are two many "if's" and "but's" in the above preposition. Besides, such implementation will lend itself to inefficiencies.

Although, it may cause discomfort if the person using client 'C' is disconnected, I don't think it will lend any form of instability to the network as a whole. But still it is a problem the way I understand it. After all, the word 'reliability' must have some context in what we are trying to accomplish 😀

So as of now, I think the implementations, the way I drafted it, has some holes in it. Big ones. Any idea, how to fix it?

Im thinking.

aushinaire mate, i visited the website. JXTA, seems to be an entire framework. Even though, outwordly, it appears bloated, Im sure it is anything but that on the inside. But still, I believe JXTA, is too much of an overhead for implementing it in a messenger. Correct me if Im wrong.

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desijays

@desijays-2SqnUc • Dec 3, 2006

xheavenlyx
1. What do you think, if you and whoever is interested can try to modify/learnfrom/recode an existing Open source p2p client? I am not asking to copy it. just to get used to the programming.

That would be a worthwhile avenue to pursue further. But if you look carefully, there aren't many open source messengers that implement p2p. Atleast none that I know of personally.

And TIPIC messenger, even though it says on their website that it is p2p, i realized after going through it, that it is not completely p2p. It is more like a hybrid p2p. Some of its feature, like file transfer are p2p oriented, while for authentication, it still uses a sever. The moment I saw that it supports yahoo,MSN and alike protocols, I realized this messenger can't be p2p, because all those protocols are client/server oriented.

On top of this it has its own server called TIMP that TIPIC users can connect to with their own protocol. Although it says in BOLD that it is open source, I couldn't find any links to download the source. If you know the link, it would be helpful if you can post it.

Even though the tipic messenger can be used for internet communications, it was primarily designed for intranet communication. I don't know if it can serve our purpose. Though its source could be an eye-opener.

Thanks for the links btw.

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Jerry

@jerry-5wPKU7 • Dec 3, 2006

Post a Summary

This is a long thread and therefore I request someone to post the thread summary in a new thread. New members may not go through entire discussion.

Have we finalized on anything yet?

Jerry

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desijays

@desijays-2SqnUc • Dec 7, 2006

We shall start soon mate. Im just trying to contemplate a couple of things before that.

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Jerry

@jerry-5wPKU7 • Dec 14, 2006

desijays
We shall start soon mate. Im just trying to contemplate a couple of things before that.

Take your time, pal. It makes me feel good to see that the engineers are actually doing something! I really want someone to summarize the conversation and put it in a new thread so that new members understand what's going on here.

Jerry

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thin_master

@thin-master-ixHY5m • May 30, 2007

Why dont we do a robot ?

A robot will require the skill sets of an electrical engineer, mechanical engineer and computer science engineer.

Let create one with the follwing sensors

Ultrasonic for proximity sensing
Temperature
Webcam to see on PC
bluetooth or FM for controlling

#-Link-Snipped-#

check out the video

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rpkash

@rpkash-OtdJRz • Jul 2, 2007

Hi Guys,
Here i am, all set to work with you guys. The only problem which i face is, m out of touch with C/C++. Still me game for the project.
Regards
Ravi CEan.

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crook

@crook-0PFkJv • Jul 3, 2007

Oh, the good ol' thread 😔 . All the best!

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xheavenlyx

@xheavenlyx-CbvN62 • Jul 16, 2007

lol crook that was Eeeevil! 😛 😛

" The good 'ol Thread "

Hmm, ..... I need one more month, then....

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Ashraf HZ

@Ash • Jul 17, 2007

Hey, this is an interesting project! Hope its going well.. I don't mind joining in 😀 I have one question though.. if we do use P2P, it'll be hard for people stuck behind some NAT firewall in university or a company won't it?

No plans for a "web" version of this CE Messenger? 😛

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Ashraf HZ

@Ash • Jul 11, 2008

Please continue discussions for the CE:IM here:

#-Link-Snipped-#

Thanks 😀 [IMG]

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CE - Project Related Ideas & Discussions

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