Car Brake System~!!!! How to improve it?

Thread moved to mechanical engineering section.

Yes, there is magnetic braking. It would be a good topic to explore & refine. It currently is not used in automobiles due to cost/reliabilty issues and they are not effective at slow speeds, however over time that could change. the are called Eddy current brakes and primarily used on trains and roller coasters. There is no friction involved or mechanical contact. Electromagnetic brakes are like a hybrid in that they use magnetic force to press the pads against the rotor. This would be the variety to adapt to personal vehicles.

gohmYes, there is magnetic braking. It would be a good topic to explore & refine. It currently is not used in automobiles due to cost/reliabilty issues and they are not effective at slow speeds, however over time that could change. the are called Eddy current brakes and primarily used on trains and roller coasters. There is no friction involved or mechanical contact. Electromagnetic brakes are like a hybrid in that they use magnetic force to press the pads against the rotor. This would be the variety to adapt to personal vehicles.

Yes thats correct.. But in cars we have got ABS( Anti lock Braking System ). Thats the one we commonly used. Actually people forgotten the importance of brakes they just care about the power and mileage figures only. Remember Pirreli's Tag line " Power is nothing with out control".. well keep going maxz.. good luck :clap:

maxzJust. I come out with an idea on Car Braking System. I see alot of accident due to the failure of the brakes either front or back brake. So i suggest that the braking system need to be improve. But i not sure where i can start to analyst which part i need to improve.
Well. My final Year Project in On the way now. I wanted to stick with this idea.

I thinking of the brake system - fluid compression to the clamp to stop the disk or drum to decelerate the speed of the car, Change to the clamp into a magnetic field. Its it an good idea? Coz the flow of fluid may cause the tube adding some air accidentally and sometimes the tube occur leakage.

But if it does change to magnetic field to decelerate the disk or drum, i guess is more better than that rite? what u all guess suggest.

BTW do this Magnectic Braking system available now?

Hey man.. This could be the present generation braking system.. But the next generation in one way or other is going to use the EWB(electronic wedge brakes).. It is more safe and its efficiency is greater than 45% compared to the conventional 33% of disk brakes..

Red Hawk, why don't we merge the two threads? tell us a bit about your paper and ideas?

Ya man~!!! Tats the point. I had doing some research about the magnetic braking system which is only applied on trains and roller coaster. Then i started to think the way to implement this idea to our normal vehicle or so.

Then i started to think about combining both system into 1 which can be called as Dual Braking system. Maybe this type is costly for present project. But as i understand normal braking system is completely relying on the fluid of the tube. while the magnetic force anyway is just electric generated eddy current to stop or slow down the speed as roller coaster did.

So this is my idea for MY project.

1st of all, combining both brake system into one. modify the current design on the disc brake and try to implement the magnetic device into the brake there.

These is wat i have think about. just in case the normal brake failed, theres a back up magnetic braking system to slow down ur vehicle. OR the both brake act together so that the motion of the vehicle will get slower by percentage compared to only normal brakes.

Guys. Give me ur thaught. I quite confidence on this project. And BTW, do we have any software simulation tat i can use to test about this case?

Your help is much appreciated~!!!! Hope to see more idea's to help me out with this project. Previous comments is much grateful~!!! Thanks guys😛😛

Ok, so you want elctromagnetic brakes then, they are the combination. I'd use them as the main brakes, replacing hydraulic completely as you already have a back up in mechanical e-brakes.

Yup. Electromagnetic Brakes. I wan to combine it with hydraulic brake connecting it wih a electronics circuit board to control and determine when to use the electromagnetic brakes. so called (Double Acting Brake System)

Hydraulic brake will act as a main type of brake. Just in case it is failed, then the circuit board detected failure and replacing the brakes to electromagnetic brake to stop the car. its similar to ABS if i not mistaken. But ABS is stop the 4 tire completely. But the idea is not to stop the tire, its to slow down the force and speed against the car, so that this could reduce accident rates.

Ok, so you want two brake systems. ABS is actually different, it only prevents wheel lock (and loss of control due to lock)by modulating the brake force once lock is detected by sensors.

Hmmm. I guess i need to try to simulate 1 of this thing. Do we have any simulation software tat i can try it out for the testing? Plz~!!!😕😕😕

Here is a partial list of some. Solid modelers would be the best, followed by auto specific then general CAD. Your budget will be an important factor in choice.

autodesk
turboCAD solid modeler (economical)
solidworks (lots of ad-ons)

auto-ware
bowlings automotive programs
CarSim Ed (free)

turboCAD
autoCAD LT

yes, i think it would work.magnetic brake is one great idea that helps to decreese the rate of accidents due to brake failures and faults. you have to implement two strong electro magnets which magnetises when the brake pedal is pressed ,by taking charge from battery. this magnetised discs attract the wheel disc and retards its velocity of rotation, and with in fraction of seconds the vehicle will stop. its my idea regarding this. thank you.

gohmRed Hawk, why don't we merge the two threads? tell us a bit about your paper and ideas?

My paper is about electronic wedge braking system. It is similar to a conventional braking system but differs in the concept that it has no fluid inside as it is not a hydraulic type.
This brakes has 2 pads like the conventional ones. After that it has a wedge shaped wooden block, followed by rollers to reduce friction, another wedge block and 2 motors controlling the wedge system. The diagrammatic illustration is given in the following URL.
horsepowersports.com/electronic-wedge-brakes-outperform-hydraulics
horsepowersports.com/electronic-wedge-brakes-signal-future-electric-cars
#-Link-Snipped-#

Check these for additional information..

Well if this happens then dont the tyres will lock up???? 😕

yes, i think it would work.magnetic brake is one great idea that helps to decreese the rate of accidents due to brake failures and faults. you have to implement two strong electro magnets which magnetises when the brake pedal is pressed ,by taking charge from battery. this magnetised discs attract the wheel disc and retards its velocity of rotation, and with in fraction of seconds the vehicle will stop. its my idea regarding this. If that happened then dont the wheels will lock up???????😕 Mods please delete this post.. wrongly post this one

Cool, any plans to develop a working model after your paper? what do you see as the primary introduction application for this?

Red HawkMy paper is about electronic wedge braking system. It is similar to a conventional braking system but differs in the concept that it has no fluid inside as it is not a hydraulic type.
This brakes has 2 pads like the conventional ones. After that it has a wedge shaped wooden block, followed by rollers to reduce friction, another wedge block and 2 motors controlling the wedge system. The diagrammatic illustration is given in the following URL.
horsepowersports.com/electronic-wedge-brakes-outperform-hydraulics
horsepowersports.com/electronic-wedge-brakes-signal-future-electric-cars
#-Link-Snipped-#

Check these for additional information..

Guys~!!! In these means tat my idea wouldn't work at all? Since you all guys having a great attention to RedHawks idea. 😕😕😕😕. (Redhawk's paper is just to research on what is EWB about and how the functionality of the brake. And it is not improve)

1st of all EWB system will be coming out for the next 3 years. I doubted that theres any changes on it or modify.

2nd, I doubted that this thread is regarding about my idea's all along.Why suddenly there's a post on EWB coming out????????

3rd, If there is more attraction on the post of EWB, can Admin just delete all my postings here????😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔

By now, my proposal of this idea is already approve from my University. And now i proceeding on my initial drawings on the normal disc brake. Its kinda hard to get the accurate dimensions on those disc brake.

Trying to model it using Autocad 2008~!!!!

Who said your idea won't work. There are different kinds of brakes you can experiment on.
Eddy Current Brakes
Electro Magnetic Brakes
Regenerative Brakes

Cool. You have regained my confident on my Project.

Q&A: Do Autodesk Inventor can simulate the brake with electromagnet?

I have never worked on Autodesk but Mechanical Simulation softwares are usually used for
Dynamic Simulation and
Stress Analysis
Yours will be a case of Dynamic Simulation. Does Autodesk inventor support electromagnetic constraints?

Wow~!!! Tats great. I guess Inventor only can do the animation part when i need to present where how the idea is operate. Still cracking my head on simulation part

Yeah, never said it would not work, quite the contrary as these systems are in existance already. You'll also need to sim how it works in conjunction with the other vehicle systems as well.

Yes. It is exist. But this haven't used in any kind of vehicle yet. Both combining and works together. I sure this never exist until now.

The most critical part is to sim it.

I quite a bit noob in simulation part. 😔😔😕😕

gohmCool, any plans to develop a working model after your paper? what do you see as the primary introduction application for this?

I am thinking of developing a working model for my paper.. But only taking it as my FYP.. I dont no the actual cost of this equipment.. The normal EWB comes to market the next academic year.. So i am not sure..

maxzGuys~!!! In these means tat my idea wouldn't work at all? Since you all guys having a great attention to RedHawks idea. 😕😕😕😕. (Redhawk's paper is just to research on what is EWB about and how the functionality of the brake. And it is not improve)

1st of all EWB system will be coming out for the next 3 years. I doubted that theres any changes on it or modify.

2nd, I doubted that this thread is regarding about my idea's all along.Why suddenly there's a post on EWB coming out????????

3rd, If there is more attraction on the post of EWB, can Admin just delete all my postings here????😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔

Yes.. My paper is to first study the working of EWB and then to improve its efficiency too..
1. EWB is coming next year in markets.. Not to India, but in US.
2. This thread is all about your idea.. Your idea is the base for this thread.. It is not going anywhere.. Every CEean is knowing about your idea every day..
3. I suggested EWB because i found it interesting and wanted to share it.. In a common forum like this, one cant expect everyone to discuss solely on his views and ideas.. Everyone has atleast an idea on this topic. They should be left free to post their ideas.. This is the actual learning process man.. Sorry if i diverted the path this thread..

Nah~!!! Its okie now. I sticking on my idea man~!!! xD Feel free to talk what ever regarding for this thread. Sorry for the previous post. Kinda emo that time.

BTW anyone have a autocad drawings for the disc brake? If yes. Plz tell me. It could save a load of time to redraw everything. Peace man~!!!

One very basic approach to make car breaks effective is tying a big parachute at the back of the car. As soon as break fails, there should be one EMMERGENCY button right in front of every seat.

So that who so ever present in the vehicle notices some terrible about to happen, he simlply pushes that button and that big parachute will get inflated for instance and later its size will stop the car's motion.

Nice idea. How do you plan to work around that the cute would be interfered by (as well as interefere with) the vehicles behind the car? How would you design around both low speed ability and shorten a chute's stopping distance?

I think disk break is alredey some what costly & it gives lot of <more than sufficent> retardation I alredy use disk breaks.
By using high qulity breaks there shude be problem in tyre

gg_gauravI think disk break is alredey some what costly & it gives lot of <more than sufficent> retardation I alredy use disk breaks.
By using high qulity breaks there shude be problem in tyre

Unless it doesnt have ABS and resulting in wheel lock up... so without ABS it will be useless or say it will not get that advantage. think about the friction tooo

I enjoy this much. My drawings for existing disc brake design is done. Now lets give it a try to modify on the caliper, to include coil and additional brake in to it.

But i quite confuse. if this project is pure mechanical or mechatronic? Some of my frens says it is not pure mechanical project, as i explained to them that this design is to reduce speed more efficiently. By means the principal of reduction speed is base on mechanical formula. Force (f=d/dt) and

friction

Does it matter for your project? Being overly technical they are right, however nowdays you will be hard pressed to find something that is purely one discipline.

If you want pure mechanical then design block brakes or belt brakes. Like Gohm said, nowadays everything is becoming interdependent. Take the case of cars, earlier they were pure mechanical, but nowadays other fields are also involved.

Ya. it does matter to me now. I approach my supervisor today (finally i have a supervisor on my project) and i told him my idea. My supervisor agree with my idea, but he says i need a pure mechanical idea on my project and my current idea is seems doubted. But if i were an Electrical and Electronics Engineering, i allow to have a GO AHEAD on my current idea.

Guys. What i should do now? Any idea suggestion? i need some advice. but i wont give up this idea easily before i meet my Dean to clarify this matter. Maybe electromagnetic is E&E, but come with the car case, its completely depends on mechanical functions.

Guys. Please give me some suggestions. ~!!!! Thankz~!!!

I think brake failure triggers a driver's reaction sequence..like TIGHT HANDLING OF STEERING WHEEL, IMMEDIATE HUGE PRESSURE ON BREAK PADS, VERY SWIFT STEERING movements.

If a system could trap these reactions through motion sensors and repetetive testing to perfection.

so that this system could drigger ENGINE closure, Some kind of Wheel jamming procedure will help curing the issue.

Please limit use of caps

YourTechMateI think brake failure triggers a driver's reaction sequence..like TIGHT HANDLING OF STEERING WHEEL, IMMEDIATE HUGE PRESSURE ON BREAK PADS, VERY SWIFT STEERING movements.

If a system could trap these reactions through motion sensors and repetetive testing to perfection.

so that this system could drigger ENGINE closure, Some kind of Wheel jamming procedure will help curing the issue.

Guys~!!! Do this brake can be improve in other way???? My college supervisor is not encourage me to do it with eletromagnetic field's break.. What else i can improve with this brake system?

nice idea,

but what will happen if the car battery gets down...

then the electro-magnets will not work...😔
resulting in brake failure...


car accident because of battery failure = 😡

hie i think the main problem with the pressure brake is that there should not be any leakage in pressure bt if we use better pressure system then there is no need for that magnetic brakes coz these pressure brkes have many advantages too.......the thing is that there should not be an air bubble in between that..............

Idea pops out on the Drum Brake. Since we know that Drum Brake is more efficient than Disc Brake. In 80's Drum brake is invented and applied on the car. But Drum brake is too effective until when stoping the car, it stop the wheel turning instead the car it self.

What i mean is the force which drum brake tries to reduce by expand the brake pad to touch the surface wall of the inner wheel. It locked the wheel from spinning, at it cause the car unbalance.

So now i have an idea to modified the drum brake into Cone brake. I read a Mechanical Design book today and found out that this cone brake is useful to reduce the force generate by the torque of the engine. And it is more effective than Drum but it wont lock the wheel totaly.

Hope u guys understand wat i trying to express. Any doubts just mail me or pm me here.

Hope u guys have any suggestion on the idea's just please post it here. Share with me. Thx

By what basis leads you to believe that drum brakes are more efficient? I would disagree with that statement...

Erm... actually i not agree on it too. But my Lecturer said that the drum brake is better than disc brake. Initially when i propose my idea to him, i explain that drum brake is less contact (in the view of coefficient of friction against the inner wall of the wheel) then he said that YOU are wrong. And start telling that Drum brake is more effective than Disc brake.

But what i suggest that the drum brake i could change the design with the flang with cone shape and compress the brake pad onto the surface of the cone. Erm. Can CEan's understand what i trying to say. Sorry I'm a chinese. So hard to explain in good english.

I think you might be confusing drum brakes with disc brakes. Disc brakes started appearing heavily on cars in the 80's (although they had been around much longer than that) and are much more prone to wheel lock them drum brakes because they are more effective & do not experience fade as much. Drum brakes have been around for almost the entire history of mass produced automobiles.

Ok. I understand. So i maybe mistaken on the disc and drum brake. So its ok. But i got a doubt which Brake is better for Now. My guess is disc brake. And if i wan to improve on drum brake. Which area that i should make a change?

pad material compounds can play a huge roll, resourcing new compounds could be good. Same goes for rotors, better material and design for increased wear and heat/dust disipation could be good areas that will improve braking characteristics

Hey you guys, what is the minimum speed of a car for braking via aerodynamic occlusion to be effective? Can this limit be reduced?

Hey dude i have a doubt about this magnetic breaks.
Wat if these brakes fail during the drive. Will the braking occur and repairing these type of brakes is also very difficult.
coz there r chances of failure due climatic conditions like rainfall.

u can ask any of ur E&E friend to help with ur project. U shud pick a gud onewho is informative. Also get help from supervisors from E&E dept. It shall certainly help u.
If u dont have any friends make some it is very helpful.

ya me too disagree with u. who told that drums are more efficient. Discs r more efficient than drums.
But in heavy vehicles drum breaks r preferred.

Nah. Tat Info is from my crap supervisor telling that drum is more efficient. i disagree with him as well.. and ya magnectic brake have some drawbacks. thats why i stop the idea and change into other way round for improving it. Erm wat i mean is slightly changes on the discs shape and design on more friction contact surface and stuff like that.

We can incrase the surface area of disc!!!!

Increasing surface area wont help. Becoz friction is not depended on surface area.It only depends on the weight and force and inclination of the surface.

Changing the design of the disc would help i think.somehow..

krishthd=>
I think If we Incease surface area then we can produce more frction which directly affect the performance of break.

It is true. Increase Surface area for friction is much likely better than the existing 1. the existing area surface is limited. so i think is better to increase the surface area. and

Krishthd your true too. Changing the design of the disc is to help the cause of friction into heat could release even faster.
Change of the shape on the disc could help the heat release. Ya its true. Both way can be done.

@ maxz==>
Can you suggest the shape of disk, please?

The shape would be on its way. currently i still stucking on my project idea. as my college have damn a lot of student were doing the same thing as me. Brake. Suggested that should i stick to the plan or change my idea of my Final year project. I kinda sad becoz too many people follow.

@ maxz=>
This is good aporchunity to show your skill, Isn't It?

Its been a while i left this post death~!! I'm back and wanted to post some of the pictures in here. i Guess i will receive many many critics about my works. BUT i need that to improve more on my project. I hope you all could help me.

This below would be my current design.






THis design is just a rough. so anything plz comment in here. AS i need CEan's comment to improve better than this.. THx...

No comments on my idea for the brake?????? wierd~!!!!

maxzJust. I come out with an idea on Car Braking System. I see alot of accident due to the failure of the brakes either front or back brake. So i suggest that the braking system need to be improve. But i not sure where i can start to analyst which part i need to improve.
Well. My final Year Project in On the way now. I wanted to stick with this idea.

I thinking of the brake system - fluid compression to the clamp to stop the disk or drum to decelerate the speed of the car, Change to the clamp into a magnetic field. Its it an good idea? Coz the flow of fluid may cause the tube adding some air accidentally and sometimes the tube occur leakage.

But if it does change to magnetic field to decelerate the disk or drum, i guess is more better than that rite? what u all guess suggest.

BTW do this Magnectic Braking system available now?

My view is if we use magnetic + conventional mechanism this may get success...

maxzNo comments on my idea for the brake?????? wierd~!!!!

can your design beat ABS - antilock braking system ? 😒

it is possible if were to implement ABS to my design as well...

Currently i were to test on the friction efficiency between existing and my design type...
Hopefully it could be higher than existing brakes.

Finally i had a break through and my project were a success. I had a Grade B on my Project and i'm very proud and thank full to all CEians here to give me such opinion. Thanks alot.

Do share the pics and the complete technical specifications of your project. And yes congratulations.

Thank you again for all. I'm here and yes, i have graduated from my University.

maxzJust. I come out with an idea on Car Braking System. I see alot of accident due to the failure of the brakes either front or back brake. So i suggest that the braking system need to be improve. But i not sure where i can start to analyst which part i need to improve.
Well. My final Year Project in On the way now. I wanted to stick with this idea.

I thinking of the brake system - fluid compression to the clamp to stop the disk or drum to decelerate the speed of the car, Change to the clamp into a magnetic field. Its it an good idea? Coz the flow of fluid may cause the tube adding some air accidentally and sometimes the tube occur leakage.

But if it does change to magnetic field to decelerate the disk or drum, i guess is more better than that rite? what u all guess suggest.

BTW do this Magnectic Braking system available now?

Hello maxz,
I have done final year project & seminar on same subject.

first thing the fluid used for such braking system is called as Magneto Rheological fluid or MR fluid. It is one of the smart materials. Its property is; when it is subjected to magnetic field its viscosity increases. Magnetic field converts it into semisolid state from liquid. Its very costly, 25000/lit and its manufactured only in USA.

So think about this project twice; as its setup & MR fluid is very costly.

This braking system comprises of, a tough steel plate, surrounded with a drum. this drum contains MR fluid & electrical windings are provided over drum so as to create magnetic effect. Steel plate is attached with the shaft which drives the wheel.

So when there is need to apply brake just increase magnetic effect, which will increse viscosity of MR fluid which will oppose to the rotation of shaft & brake will be applied.

This kind of system is not used in current vehicles as at higher rpm MR fluid leaks out of drum. & at higher speeds MR fluid can not be semi solid as quick as at slower rpm's.

Prof. H. Hirani IIT Powai (Mumbai) is working on it.

Automobile giants like GM are working are seeking to develop a magnetorheological fluid based clutch system for push-button four wheel drive systems. This clutch system would use electromagnets to solidify the fluid which would lock the driveshaft into the drivetrain.


<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetorheological_fluid" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Magnetorheological Fluid</a>

#-Link-Snipped-#

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LArS6tlVNg" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Magneto-Rheological Fluid - YouTube</a>

I see.... but i think there's some alternative way to use on the improvement.. since i graduated, i never look on the research already. Moreover, there is no sponsor for me to continue the studies.

maxzthere is no sponsor for me to continue the studies.

HEllo Maxz,

I done this project with the sponsorship of my college, but it was not successful.
As funds were insufficient; & project was too much costly.
Sponsors are always req for such project, but not had that much reach at that time (Before 3 Years).

I dont know about recent advances in MR break (Magneto Rheological break) but, some
solution must be raised to solve the problem of fluid leakage & change in state of MR fluid at higher rpm's.

Actually I was not on CE when you raised this thread, at that time I could have helped you. hmmm

Let it be. so you have completed your project; please tell me details.!!!

well~ for my project, i just studies on the design of the braking plate and the material of it only. as i mentioned, no sponsors. so i have to reduce the size of scope that actually need to cover for my entire project. I have my file for my new design of 1 phase braking surface that i already did some testing, and its slightly better braking power than dual surface braking. Hmmm

hey people ...i am thinking of a project to make for my final year ,,,,,i m thinking of a tilting headlamps sideways ,that is left to right
,,it will move according to the steering movement ,,,,,purpose is that ,,during a sharp turn ,,the light beam usually goes straight ,and doesn't turn with the car,,,,so i wan to move headlamps sideways....

please help me ,,is this possible,what all things a\can i use,,
can i use a hydraulic unit,or a electronic unit