Can a country survive without collecting taxes from people?

Member • Jul 11, 2012

If Switzerland can, why can't other countries. But there are lot of hidden factor's in it. Population, GDP growth rate, And mainly corruption rate

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AbhishekBiswas

Member • Jul 11, 2012

I guess its population that matters a lot .

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Kaustubh Katdare

Administrator • Jul 11, 2012

So, let's say we treat Switzerland with any similar sized state of India. Does that simplify the problem?

How do population, GDP growth rate matter?

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Sahithi Pallavi

Member • Jul 11, 2012

The_Big_K
So, let's say we treat Switzerland with any similar sized state of India. Does that simplify the problem?
How do population, GDP growth rate matter?

As #-Link-Snipped-# said, there are lot of factors that affect the country's development. I believe population is the main cause for the inflation, bribery, bad economy, unemployment and all the social evils in the country which makes the country ruin and can not allow to develop good enough to avoid tax from the public.

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Vishal Sharma

Member • Jul 12, 2012

Taxes are common in all countries, and it even helps in development of the country. But there are millions of corrupt people in India who don't pay taxes. These corrupt people includes the ministers too, and since they have power, even the police doesn't take any action on them. Because of all this, tax rates increases on the common society of the country.

The country can survive if everyone pays their tax!! But our country is stricken by Corruption.. 😨

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Ashraf HZ

Member • Jul 13, 2012

The_Big_K
Just stumbled upon Taxation in Switzerland: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Switzerland" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Taxation In Switzerland</a> . It's quite amazing that Swiss people don't pay so many taxes.

That makes me wonder - if Switzerland can survive without collecting 'Road Tax' , 'Excise Tax', 'VAT', 'Toll Tax' and so on; why can't other countries.

Your thoughts? [PS: May not be a debate topic, but I'm sure we'll have few extreme thoughts on this topic] 😀

Switzerland does collect VAT, its levied at 8%. 😛

Depends on the country's budget and expenditure I suppose. Does it have abundant natural resources?Does it have to spend a lot on defence? As stated before, transparency of where tax payers money flow is important too.

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Kaustubh Katdare

Administrator • Jul 13, 2012

Switzerland's got abundant natural resources?

[It's got nothing to protect, except the account holder's names in their banks]

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Ashraf HZ

Member • Jul 14, 2012

Yea.. lots of chocolate! 😛

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RISHABH LALA

Member • Jul 14, 2012

Tax revenue by percentage of GDP of the countries ....

Switzerland 30.3%

India 17.7%

This means India is collecting less taxes as compared to Switzerland and even America which have this parameter about 25 %

............reference -<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">List Of Countries By Tax Revenue As Percentage Of Gdp</a>
-<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Switzerland" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Taxation In Switzerland</a>(from same page as mentioned by -Admn K)

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Saandeep Sreerambatla

Member • Jul 18, 2012

Switzerland doesnt impose more tax on the salary we get. But the taxes are too high for other cases , for example if you are buying a car, its too expensive at that place.

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Anoop Mathew

Member • Dec 30, 2013

Do we really need this road tax or toll tax on our smaller roadways? It often wastes a lot of time. I totally agree to collecting them on National Highways, but smaller highways and bridges? Why?

The other day I witnessed an incident where a Beamer (BMW) tried to evade the Toll Gate, and ended up having to sudden brake in order to avoid the ugly iron gates that was swung by the toll keeper. What followed was a series of to and fro vocabulary between the driver and the toll keeper that's meant only for 18+ audience!

P.S.: Is it worth it? Aren't we just wasting our time?

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rohanrockxxx

Member • Dec 30, 2013

Kaustubh Katdare
Just stumbled upon Taxation in Switzerland: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Switzerland" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer">Taxation In Switzerland</a> . It's quite amazing that Swiss people don't pay so many taxes.

That makes me wonder - if Switzerland can survive without collecting 'Road Tax' , 'Excise Tax', 'VAT', 'Toll Tax' and so on; why can't other countries.

Your thoughts? [PS: May not be a debate topic, but I'm sure we'll have few extreme thoughts on this topic] 😀

Most people equate income to livelihood and hard work. We hate that our hard work to feed our families and pay the bills should be taxed. The truth is, that it isn't taxed too much, especially if you're not making a lot of money, and that income tax is a great way to make very wealthy people pay more, because they need the money less.
The scary side of the coin is what would be taxed instead of income. The money has to come from somewhere.
Most proponents of abolishing income tax push for bigger sales taxes and bigger property taxes. These taxes affect the lowest income people the most. Everybody has to buy food, clothing, transportation and shelter. We all have to spend ~ 30k a year to live. Survival should never be taxed.
Ideally we would all have the first 30K of our annual sales taxes reimbursed. After that, buying things that are more like luxuries can be taxed.
Property is the American dream: Owning a home, a car and a little pit of land to keep them on is part of our image of what we believe everyone should be able to achieve. If we start taxing property heavily, then the wealthiest individuals will pay only a little more for their vacation homes etc., while every homeowner in the country will feel the pressure.
Again, this is OK if it's a progressive tax that doesn't get very big unless it's "extra" land for more than just living on. An acre or two in a suburban town or a hundred acres out in rural Montana should be considered your home and not taxed heavily. But if you own more property than you "need", such as thousands of acres of land or large estates near major cities, then a property tax can encourage that land to be used (make money, take an active role in the economy) or be taxed more heavily.
Most importantly, I believe that all taxes should balance each other and take wealth and income into consideration. Property, income and sales taxes should be held as low as possible for those with little ability to pay, allowing minimums for spending, property ownership and income before taxes become a burden. I fear the growing inequality of wealth in our great nation and that too many people are renting their homes, living on credit and loans, and being overtaxed on their income, and that the American Dream is harder to reach than ever before.
We should be wary of broad yes/no questions like this and voting on such things without understanding the alternatives and repercussions.
We should also look into the systems that drive money and wealth upwards and away from the lifeblood of the economy (us, the people) and think about how we can tax the wealthiest individuals who don't need to work hard and earn a paycheck.

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KSS Manian

Member • Dec 30, 2013

Anoop Mathew
Do we really need this road tax or toll tax on our smaller roadways? It often wastes a lot of time. I totally agree to collecting them on National Highways, but smaller highways and bridges? Why?

FYI, Our NHAI has not the responsibility to collect the money. They had signed the agreement for some years(approx 20 Years) with the companies which built the Roads, Bridges etc. For them we have to pay the toll money.

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Janaa karti

Member • Jan 4, 2014

s a country with a great manufacturing capability can survive witout collecting taxex

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Rajni Jain

Member • Jan 5, 2014

We shouldn't have the problem with the one time tax.
Problem starts when we pay multiple time taxes. Take an example:

1. We get an salary --> Pay TAX (Income Tax) 2. Go to a shop via road --> Road Tax 3. Buy something --> Pay VAT

WHYY?
Either Income tax shouldn't be there, and if we had already given Tax why there is a tax on already tax deducted income? NOT FAIR, per me. 😔

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Sahithi Pallavi

Member • Jan 10, 2014

Rajni Jain
We shouldn't have the problem with the one time tax.
Problem starts when we pay multiple time taxes. Take an example:

1. We get an salary --> Pay TAX (Income Tax) 2. Go to a shop via road --> Road Tax 3. Buy something --> Pay VAT

WHYY?
Either Income tax shouldn't be there, and if we had already given Tax why there is a tax on already tax deducted income? NOT FAIR, per me. 😔

TO SERVE YOU! YES, TO SERVE US, THE PEOPLE.

Government needs money to meet the needs of Democratic Govt, 100s of departments, thousands and thousands of offices, lakhs and lakhs of employees and to serve the people.

We can't avoid road and transport department by serving sales department. we need road and transport to travel safe from one place to other. Every ministry, division, department, office needs money to meet their needs to serve us.

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KSS Manian

Member • Jan 10, 2014

Sahithi Rajasekharuni
TO SERVE YOU! YES, TO SERVE US, THE PEOPLE.

Government needs money to meet the needs of Democratic Govt, 100s of departments, thousands and thousands of offices, lakhs and lakhs of employees and to serve the people.

We can't avoid road and transport department by serving sales department. we need road and transport to travel safe from one place to other. Every ministry, division, department, office needs money to meet their needs to serve us.

You are right.
But can you find the Govt employee's are serving to people. Least of them really working and also serving for the people. Rest of them??????
Even I paid the tax and the same is utilized, I need to bribe those people to do my needs. Otherwise my file will not come to the table.

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Sahithi Pallavi

Member • Jan 11, 2014

KSS manian
You are right.
But can you find the Govt employee's are serving to people. Least of them really working and also serving for the people. Rest of them??????
Even I paid the tax and the same is utilized, I need to bribe those people to do my needs. Otherwise my file will not come to the table.

Not all employees will take bribe. Again there are few govt employees/agencies working to curb bribing to help you. They are working for you, for us. Why don't you approach them first? Are you not aware of them? Or even they are asking bribe? Or you can't spend your valuable time and money by approaching them?
Why do you bribe to meet your needs first of all? That means you yourself are not responsible and thus encouraging them indirectly.

See, we can't blame the employees or the department or the Govt alone. Who are they? They are part of us, the people. The long say "Yadha Raja; Tadha Praja" has got changed and it has become "Yadha Praja; Tadha Raja" now. We should be responsible first. With out being responsible no one has no business to say. Its true that you yourself or I myself can't change the system. But that should not be a reason for your doing. Without an active civil society, either the vibrant parliament or the committed bureaucracy or an effective executive or a responsible media can not do anything.
please don't get offended with my words. I'm not pointing you specifically, I'm saying in general.

Seems we have moved from taxes to bribes.

It's not that am supporting the Govt. But I just want to show you the other side from administrative point of view and I'm happy for further debate 😀

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ISHAN TOPRE

Member • Jan 11, 2014

@#-Link-Snipped-# : It seems you are preparing good for essay type questions. I read your replies.They are good 😀
If we talk about countries like Bahrain, they have oil and thus rich. They do not collect taxes. But even if we have countries like Israel, people with proper planning are earning lots of money, in a scarce country. Though I do not know the tax situation in Israel.

Now, my stand is: A nation can survive without taxes.
How?

1. By making profit.
The government can earn money just like a common man earns, by maximizing the profits of government run companies.
2. By exploiting renewable natural resources.

Gold and crude oil are two important areas where we should focus for reducing CAD.
A couple of quarters back, Finance minister P. Chidambaram, imposed an import duty on Gold. However we are still not adopting technology for oil. We importing 70-75% from other countries.
3. By going lean.
We should localize our economy rather than globalizing it. We should make regions of India self reliant rather than focussing on complete India at a time.
India has estimated wind energy potential of 300GW/ annum. We are only exploiting 19 GW/ year. If we go lean we can save lot of money that is unnecessarily going waste.

All this money can be provided to the tax payers as subsidy in their tax. If we follow this policy, after some years, we can abolish tax system completely.

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Sahithi Pallavi

Member • Jan 12, 2014

Issue
@#-Link-Snipped-# : It seems you are preparing good for essay type questions. I read your replies.They are good 😀

Thanks, this is all because of my exam preparation 😀

If we talk about countries like Bahrain, they have oil and thus rich. They do not collect taxes. But even if we have countries like Israel, people with proper planning are earning lots of money, in a scarce country. Though I do not know the tax situation in Israel.

There may be few countries who don't collect taxes from people or who collect very low taxes from the people. It depends on the geographical, political, economic, cultural, human, social factors. We need to take all those factors in to consideration.
There is no income tax in Bahrain and in fact no need. But I think it collects small amounts of taxes in the form of insurance or with some other names which are used for Govt policies. Don't say about Israel, such a cruel country, people in Israel are no safe and by the way, even it collects taxes.

Now, my stand is: A nation can survive without taxes.
How?

1. By making profit.
The government can earn money just like a common man earns, by maximizing the profits of government run companies.

It depends on the form of Govt gain. Capitalistic country gives a less role to the state and more role to the market and it gives income to the govt like anything. Socialistic country gives a more role to the state and less role the market and it gives less income to the govt. I don't want to get in to their details . Our country is socialistic and state has to take care of everything and everyone and thereby it needs more money than it gets from its revenue.
Govt should be always service-oriented and it is the market that is profit-oriented. If Govt is really profit-oriented, I promise the common man in that country can not survive. I would rather say govt should earn more revenue by other ways than struggling for profits. By the way, we are in the years of disinvestment and I hope that gives some revenue.

2. By exploiting renewable natural resources.

Gold and crude oil are two important areas where we should focus for reducing CAD.
A couple of quarters back, Finance minister P. Chidambaram, imposed an import duty on Gold. However we are still not adopting technology for oil. We importing 70-75% from other countries.

Because of import and other customs restrictions only, We've reduced the import of Gold from the past 2-3 months. And regarding energy security, We've national biofuel policy, we are exploring natural gas, even cabinet recently approved the companies to explore coal bed methane from the coal blocks which ensures efficient use of our resources and controls global warming, and coal bed methane policy is likely coming soon. Last month our foreign secretary Ms. Sujatha singh went to USA specifically to discuss about shale gas exploration and to get tech know-how. Govt is enouraging private players to explore the resources by giving them various concessions. Govt is trying its best to meet the energy security of the country. CAD is coming down from the last 3-4 months that mostly because of boost i ourn exports and import restrictions on Gold.

3. By going lean.
We should localize our economy rather than globalizing it. We should make regions of India self reliant rather than focussing on complete India at a time.
India has estimated wind energy potential of 300GW/ annum. We are only exploiting 19 GW/ year. If we go lean we can save lot of money that is unnecessarily going waste.
All this money can be provided to the tax payers as subsidy in their tax. If we follow this policy, after some years, we can abolish tax system completely.

Is it so? If that is really true, why the public administers don't go for it?
Don't forget India's situation in 1980s and 1990s. India didn't willingly joined WTO accepting globalization. India is forced to and infact there is no other choice for of India to survive at that time. We've lost our gold and it was a tough situation to get loans. There is no other go for India other than to accept LPG. If that day India wouldn't do that, may be we would not be like this today. Thanks to economic reforms. And it is not like a entry and exit scheme as some one argues that as we are well today, we can remove LPG now. World is Globalized now and we have to depend on one another and no country is self reliant and self sufficient. See no country wants itself to be ruled or dependent on others. I request everyone who looks at the darker side of Globalization to go through WTO once.

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Sarathkumar Chandrasekaran

Member • Jan 12, 2014

A good discussion.
My point is that a government can still run without imposing tax on all things by utilizing the resources correctly and increasing other revenue paths of Govt organizations .Proper regulization is a must and for example In tamil Nadu the registered number of sand units taken fronm river beds is only little when compared to number of units really taken.A large revenue is missed in this type of misdoings.

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Anand Tamariya

Member • Jan 12, 2014

3. By going lean. We should localize our economy rather than globalizing it. We should make regions of India self reliant rather than focussing on complete India at a time.

Self-reliance is a fallacy - it pre-supposes that any entity can be efficient at all things at the same time. The ideal condition is free trade at all levels - community, national and international. So one can produce what he is best at and then exchange it with others for what he lacks.

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Sahithi Pallavi

Member • Jan 12, 2014

SarathKumar Chandrasekaran
A good discussion.
My point is that a government can still run without imposing tax on all things by utilizing the resources correctly and increasing other revenue paths of Govt organizations .Proper regulization is a must and for example In tamil Nadu the registered number of sand units taken fronm river beds is only little when compared to number of units really taken.A large revenue is missed in this type of misdoings.

I agree, tight regulatory framework is needed. But you were taking about illegal mining; yes, tamilnadu is a victim of it. Govt is trying hard to control that sand mafia,hope it will. Govt can not give permissions beyond a certain limit. Sand mining beyond a certain limit leads to more causalities during floods or tsunami situations.
Utilization of resources is good for a country to earn revenue. But over exploitation of resources will become a disaster. See the case of Indonesia; it has transformed from a net exporter to importer of hydrocarbons due to over exploitation of resources. We need to think of future.
And utilization of resources is also not as easy as say. Again consider Indonesia, though it is having world's 80% of geothermal energy resources, it is not able to use them as it's financial settlements would not permit.

No country wants to waste its resources without using them, there are certain limits and restrictions which makes it to do so.

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