What happens when supply is given to a permanent magnet?

CEans, I have a crazy doubt

What will happen if the supply is given directly to the permanent magnet?

Replies

  • ISHAN TOPRE
    ISHAN TOPRE
    You mean that you are going to wound wire around magnet and then give supply?

    Or do you want to give direct supply? In second case I think nothing will happen. I do not know much but nothing will happen, I think.
  • Mr.Don
    Mr.Don
    Yeah no wounding of wire.
  • everett.pattison
    everett.pattison
    I do not think anything will happen, unless there is a coil there won't be any kind of electrically induced magnetic field nor do I think it will inhibit the magnets field. Someone with a chemistry background may be able to answer this question better.
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    Well, that's what is happening in the case of electric bell or dynamo... It goes forward if positive and goes back if negative...
  • everett.pattison
    everett.pattison
    The electric bell or dynamo function off electromagnets which in its most basic form, is a coil of wire wrapped around an iron core which produces the magnetic field, permanent magnets are not used let alone have voltage put through them.
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    everett.pattison
    The electric bell or dynamo function off electromagnets which in its most basic form, is a coil of wire wrapped around an iron core which produces the magnetic field, permanent magnets are not used let alone have voltage put through them.
    Permanent Magnet is used in these cases for getting repulsion!

    [​IMG]
  • everett.pattison
    everett.pattison
    That is not an electromagnet though. There is no voltage being applied to it as the original poster was asking. That system is used to create voltage/current.
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    Man! Only when both permanent and elecromagnet are together, dynamo or motor works! Don't you know that?
  • everett.pattison
    everett.pattison
    You're not listening to what I'm saying, the original question is what happens when you apply voltage to a permanent magnet. Never in any of those applications do you apply voltage to a permanent magnet.
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    So you mean to say, applying voltage to the magnet and not to a coil and wrapping it on a magnet! Right? If this is the case, then the magnet itself is a conductor performing a short circuit... 😀
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    praveenscience
    So you mean to say, applying voltage to the magnet and not to a coil and wrapping it on a magnet! Right? If this is the case, then the magnet itself is a conductor performing a short circuit... 😀
    You are right.
    If it is a metallic magnet (AlNiCO for example), it is like any other conductor and will carry a current. This will create a magnetic field around the magnet whose sign will depend on the direction of current according to Fleming's Rule. This may enhance or detract from the permanent magnet's own field if a DC. If AC the effect will be cyclic at the frequency of the supply. If it is a ceramic magnet it will not conduct.

    Biormanai
  • everett.pattison
    everett.pattison
    praveenscience
    So you mean to say, applying voltage to the magnet and not to a coil and wrapping it on a magnet! Right? If this is the case, then the magnet itself is a conductor performing a short circuit... 😀
    Yes, that is what '#-Link-Snipped-#' was trying to ask, not talking about electric bells and dynamos.
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    bioramani
    You are right.
    If it is a metallic magnet (AlNiCO for example), it is like any other conductor and will carry a current. This will create a magnetic field around the magnet whose sign will depend on the direction of current according to Fleming's Rule. This may enhance or detract from the permanent magnet's own field if a DC. If AC the effect will be cyclic at the frequency of the supply. If it is a ceramic magnet it will not conduct.

    Biormanai
    Magnet can only be Iron (Fe) right??? And even a kid knows that Iron is a good conductor of electricity. Then, it is evident that it makes a short circuit. What is ceramic magnet then?

    By the way, your signature is wrong! 😔
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    praveenscience
    Magnet can only be Iron (Fe) right??? And even a kid knows that Iron is a good conductor of electricity. Then, it is evident that it makes a short circuit. What is ceramic magnet then? By the way, your signature is wrong! 😔
    As Shakespeare (according to some die hard Tamils, he was a Tamil called ஜெகசிற்பியன், who migrated to London!) said, 'what's in a name?'

    Magnets can be made out of any ferromagnetic material.
    #-Link-Snipped-#

    Ceramic ones are electrical insulators.

    Bioramani
    (made sure of that!)
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    bioramani
    As Shakespeare (according to some die hard Tamils, he was a Tamil called ஜெகசிற்பியன், who migrated to London!) said, 'what's in a name?'

    Magnets can be made out of any ferromagnetic material.
    #-Link-Snipped-#

    Ceramic ones are electrical insulators.

    Bioramani
    (made sure of that!)
    Thank you sir... Learnt something new... I too had a magnet which was very flexible, and am damn sure it is not Iron! 😛 Would it be ceramic then???
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    praveenscience
    Thank you sir... Learnt something new... I too had a magnet which was very flexible, and am damn sure it is not Iron! 😛 Would it be ceramic then???
    It must be one of the magnets made of ceramic powder in a flexible polymer matrix, commonly used as promotional material (Fridge stickers) or presentation graphics.

    Bioramani
  • amar.amar
    amar.amar
    i think its polarities might change due to the electric current..
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    amar.amar
    i think its polarities might change due to the electric current..
    Hoi! Where are polarities coming in magnets???
  • amar.amar
    amar.amar
    it has the poles naa north and south!!
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    amar.amar
    it has the poles naa north and south!!
    Man! These permanent poles never change for sure!!! 😲
  • Mr.Don
    Mr.Don
    bioramani
    You are right.
    If it is a metallic magnet (AlNiCO for example), it is like any other conductor and will carry a current. This will create a magnetic field around the magnet whose sign will depend on the direction of current according to Fleming's Rule. This may enhance or detract from the permanent magnet's own field if a DC. If AC the effect will be cyclic at the frequency of the supply. If it is a ceramic magnet it will not conduct.

    Biormanai
    Why metallic conduct and Ceramic magnets don't conduct. Where is the energy going in ceramic magnets?
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    dileep k
    Why metallic conduct and Ceramic magnets don't conduct. Where is the energy going in ceramic magnets?
    They are not metals... Only metals are capable of conducting electricity... 😀
  • venueee
    venueee
    due to the application of electrical energy on permenent magnet ,it will lossse or reduces the magnitic strenth.......
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    venueee
    due to the application of electrical energy on permenent magnet ,it will lossse or reduces the magnitic strenth.......
    Before that it should conduct the electrical energy right?
  • Mr.Don
    Mr.Don
    praveenscience
    They are not metals... Only metals are capable of conducting electricity... 😀
    Hey that is a question to Bioramani sir's Answer.Metallic magnets will conduct and I wanted to know why ceramic magnets don't conduct. If they conduct then where's the energy going.

    @ Praveen I think we can safely jump into the water with an electric wire in it now 😛
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    Why? You wanna die??? 😛
  • Mr.Don
    Mr.Don
    @Praveen Noo.I don't wanna die and I cannot die because only metals can conduct. 😛
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    Dude you said tying up a wire... Wire conducts... 😀
  • narayana murthy
    narayana murthy
    hahahaha guys inside wire we are having a conductor observe it
    as well gold, copper such metals are good conductors due to less availability we use some combination alloy materials for transmission so we use them for transmission
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    narayana murthy
    hahahaha guys inside wire we are having a conductor observe it
    as well gold, copper such metals are good conductors due to less availability we use some combination alloy materials for transmission so we use them for transmission
    Yes,,, So???
  • narayana murthy
    narayana murthy
    praveenscience
    Yes,,, So???
    wire conducts
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    That's what even I said... 😛
  • narayana murthy
    narayana murthy
    praveenscience
    That's what even I said... 😛
    but thats not concentrated with you praveen hahaha
    ok @dileep: ceramic magnets means farrite right they are materials which gets energies when others gives power to energize
    i think this may help here
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    narayana murthy
    ceramic magnets means farrite right they are materials which gets energies when others gives power to energize
    That's a new fact here... Thanx... And Dil is always thinking of dying, isn't it???
  • narayana murthy
    narayana murthy
    praveenscience
    That's a new fact here... Thanx... And Dil is always thinking of dying, isn't it???
    hahaha may be but he always saying i don't want to die so pity
    just kidding
  • PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    PraveenKumar Purushothaman
    narayana murthy
    hahaha may be but he always saying i don't want to die so pity
    just kidding
    I seriously don't understand how much we are TJing... 😛 Yeah, that's the talent of Dil!
  • Mr.Don
    Mr.Don
    praveenscience
    I seriously don't understand how much we are TJing... 😛 Yeah, that's the talent of Dil!
    hehe You TJing me 😛 😁

    No one can Tease Don. 😎

    @NM Thanks NM. 😀
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    dileep k
    I wanted to know why ceramic magnets don't conduct. If they conduct then where's the energy going. @ Praveen I think we can safely jump into the water with an electric wire in it now 😛
    Dileep we need free electrons (or 'holes' as in semiconductors) to conduct electricity. Ceramics do not have them. So they are insulators.

    You may be right about jumping into a pool with a live wire dipped in it. Provided the the person jumping in is not connected with a good ground wire, no current passes through the person. One can hang from a 11 KV live wire safely so long as he is isolated. Human body does have some conductivity. On a wet surface 220 V can be fatal. More than a few microns directly through the heart can kill.
  • praba230890
    praba230890
    dileep k
    CEans, I have a crazy doubt

    What will happen if the supply is given directly to the permanent magnet?
    It depends on the exact situation.
    Generally, unless the current is strong enough to cook the magnet, the magnet doesn't change.
    The current on the other hand, may take a more curved route through the magnet, due to the magnetic field (magnetic fields push current around).
    Is that what you were asking about?
  • praba230890
    praba230890
    bioramani
    Dileep we need free electrons (or 'holes' as in semiconductors) to conduct electricity. Ceramics do not have them. So they are insulators.

    You may be right about jumping into a pool with a live wire dipped in it. Provided the the person jumping in is not connected with a good ground wire, no current passes through the person. One can hang from a 11 KV live wire safely so long as he is isolated. Human body does have some conductivity. On a wet surface 220 V can be fatal. More than a few microns directly through the heart can kill.
    Your swimming pool example is so fatal as there must be any ground contact in the swimming pool as swimming pools are concrete erected on bare ground. But your answer is so informative.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    Coming back to the question.. if you don't mind spoiling the fun.
    The question is what happens when supply is given to a permanent magnet.
    The answer is, "depends".
    It depends on the material of which the magnet is made of. If it is a metal, metals like cobalt, nickel, iron etc.(ferromagnetic materials are magnets... that is what they taught me.), it will conduct a current just as it conducts in a normal conductor. If it is not a conducting material, well, it simply won't.
    Now, talking about the change of poles and things. If you observe closely in a magnet(well not with your eyes, I am talking about the atomic-subatomic levels), each atom acts as a magnet. All those atoms align in exactly the same way (ideally) to create a large magnet(large enough for you to see, touch and use). The strength of the magnet depends on how many of these atoms are aligned.
    Now, if you can use some force to 'divide and rule', you can alter the magnetic status, I mean, the polarity of the magnet. If the voltage you are applying is such that the direction of the magnetic field induced by it is against the magnetic field of the magnet, and is higher in value of the same, then the polarity of the magnet also changes. Please note that this will happen if and only if the magnet conducts electricity.
    Hope I have clarified your doubts.
    P.S.- Moderators, Please do think about doing a bit more moderation, Clean up this thread of unnecessary posts, please.
  • durga ch
    durga ch
    @ AJ

    As moderators we can only delete spam. If users dont want to hold the discussion in a relevant method, mods are not responsible for editing the thread as well the users are all regular users . We do warn when it is needed or some one is spamming.
    Though it is responsibily of MODs to keep the palce clean, is is as well the responsiblity of CEans not to soil it. As someone rightly said -" Even a daimond cannot be found in a ton of coal".
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    durga
    @ AJ

    As moderators we can only delete spam. If users don't want to hold the discussion in a relevant method, mods are not responsible for editing the thread as well the users are all regular users . We do warn when it is needed or some one is spamming.
    Though it is responsibly of Mods to keep the place clean, is is as well the responsibility of CEans not to soil it. As someone rightly said -" Even a diamond cannot be found in a ton of coal".
    (I know you all are busy, but...) At least when people post something, the Mods can actually pm them and ask them to either edit the post or ask them if Mods can delete them if the posting member also feels that the post is not relevant to the topic.
  • ISHAN TOPRE
    ISHAN TOPRE
    @ Durga,
    There are many simple posts in this thread which can be deleted and no one would mind it. Let alone responsibility and other things. No one will mind it. Please delete unwanted posts. (Including this one. Sorry for spamming) 😀
  • Mr.Don
    Mr.Don
    Thanks Aj. You surely had clarified my doubt. 😀

    @Aj: Thanks Aj I will think twice to post something after this but don't worry moderators will definitely do their moderation. 😀

    @Ishan: Come on Ishan don't spam yourself man just PM a moderator. 😛 😀

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