Technology Should Be Taught In Mother Tongue. - For or Against?

Replies

• 

  Tanu Pawar

  Correct....it will help out millions, but still there's still a need to learn English, in order to "speak out" in front of world as its a "Universal Language again"!!!
  i think atleast for global communication English is Important...!!!
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  Tanu Pawar

  Correct....it will help out millions, but still there's still a need to learn English, in order to "speak out" in front of world as its a "Universal Language again"!!!
  i think atleast for global communication English is Important...!!!

  English isn't global language. Even the Europeans don't accept it. 😨
• 

  born_star16

  The_Big_K

  English isn't global language. Even the Europeans don't accept it. 😨

  Ya, but you still need to know English so that you can express yourself better. Take for example this forum. This is a place where Engineers from all over the world express their knowledge or feelings over any topic in English no matter what is their mother tongue.
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  born_star16

  Ya, but you still need to know English so that you can express yourself better. Take for example this forum. This is a place where Engineers from all over the world express their knowledge or feelings over any topic in English no matter what is their mother tongue.

  Not really. We only get participation from countries where students can speak English. My own thoughts about using English have changed since 2005.
• 

  born_star16

  The_Big_K

  Not really. We only get participation from countries where students can speak English. My own thoughts about using English have changed since 2005.

  So, what has changed your thoughts since 2005? 😀
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  born_star16

  So, what has changed your thoughts since 2005? 😀

  I used to think that unless one learns to speak & converse in English, his/her feature is doomed. But with my own study in the recent times; it's become quite obvious that study in one's mother-tongue is the best way to learn anything!
  
  Germany is famous for engineering and they don't speak English.
• 

  lovejeet

  according to me, the basics of teachings should be taught in mother tongue, so that the student grasps most of it. but as the concept develops, we should also move on to the widely accepted languages too, so that we can keep in touch with the current happenings around the world too.
• 

  durga ch

  the comfort of one's learning technology in one's own language is - your dont really need to understand how the language works to understand how the technology works. It's a huge added advantage over first knowing the grammar of a lanaguage and then try understanding 1000 pages books written in a very gramatically correct english :-s.
  But, we need to have people who can teach in mother tongue right???
• 

  silverscorpion

  To teach a subject, any subject, in a given language, we need to be able to express everything about that subject in that language without using too much of Foreign words, say from English. If there is too much influx of foreign words, then a student may as well learn it in that foreign language itself. That is where I think we will face difficulty, given that technical words and expressions for describing most technology concepts, either don't exist or are not in widespread use in many of the vernacular languages. So, if we need to teach in local languages, we first need to develop the infrastructure in the languages, that support such an effort.
• 

  Ramani Aswath

  A bit of autobiography. My mother tongue is technically Tamil, though it was only in college I studied it formally. I was more familiar with Telugu. My wife's is Kannada. My neighbour on one side was a Marathi the other from UP. We worked in Kerala where the language is Malayalam. Even today we mostly speak English at home. Kids perforce had to study in English.
  If mother tongue, which? Marathi, Tamil or any of the many National Languages? If so, what about the teachers? They have to be of the same language?
  
  I see the problem. However, the solution may create a bigger havoc.
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  Okay, the solution may not be easy. But let's say, the states offer education in the dominant language: viz. Maharashtra offering education in Marathi, Tamil Nadu in Tamil, Gujrat in Gujrati and so on.
  
  Reverse engineering the system setup by the Brits is going to be a tough job for sure.
• 

  Ramani Aswath

  The_Big_K

  Okay, the solution may not be easy. But let's say, the states offer education in the dominant language: viz. Maharashtra offering education in Marathi, Tamil Nadu in Tamil, Gujrat in Gujrati and so on.
  Reverse engineering the system setup by the Brits is going to be a tough job for sure.

  Recently we went to a temple in deep South Tamilnadu. The temple office comes under the government. Everything was written in some strange Tamil translation. The computer room and various offices were labelled only in some overzealous fanatic translation into Tamil. The people themselves were using common terms after we get to the correct place. Even thermodynamic terms and common technical terms get outlandish(wrong word for a local language!) translations.
  
  Kerala does it differently. Common things like Computer and Internet Cafe are written in local script transliterated. Bus is just bus written in Malayalam. Contrast this with Tamilnadu, where it becomes Perundhu. May be technical terms can be retained as they are (Treat them as symbols) but have the instruction language local. My wife and I set up a science lab in a tribal area, where we did this. There was no problem interacting with the students. This may work well for labs and technical hands on kind of work.
  I am not sure how didactic lectures in formal technical subjects can be handled. We may have to start with the teachers and change their mind set.
• 

  aarthivg

  I prefer mother tongue only to learn something new to us. We always think in our mother tongue only, in oderer to understand the concept of it. To express our thoughts only English is needed.
• 

  lovejeet

  bioramani

  Recently we went to a temple in deep South Tamilnadu. The temple office comes under the government. Everything was written in some strange Tamil translation. The computer room and various offices were labelled only in some overzealous fanatic translation into Tamil. The people themselves were using common terms after we get to the correct place. Even thermodynamic terms and common technical terms get outlandish(wrong word for a local language!) translations.
  
  Kerala does it differently. Common things like Computer and Internet Cafe are written in local script transliterated. Bus is just bus written in Malayalam. Contrast this with Tamilnadu, where it becomes Perundhu. May be technical terms can be retained as they are (Treat them as symbols) but have the instruction language local. My wife and I set up a science lab in a tribal area, where we did this. There was no problem interacting with the students. This may work well for labs and technical hands on kind of work.
  I am not sure how didactic lectures in formal technical subjects can be handled. We may have to start with the teachers and change their mind set.

  yup. south Indians have a strange beholding love to their mother tongue. but it sometimes creates problems too. would wish to share an incidence. i am from north India. last year i got a chance to visit Karnataka. as we moved from Maharashtra to karnataka, there was a big change. all the hoardings and boards were in the local language only. i couldn't find any sign or board in english or hindi, which created a bit of problem while traveling. local people can't understand us, and neither there were hoardings and boards to tell the exact location.
• 

  aarthivg

  lovejeet

  yup. south Indians have a strange beholding love to their mother tongue. but it sometimes creates problems too. would wish to share an incidence. i am from north India. last year i got a chance to visit Karnataka. as we moved from Maharashtra to karnataka, there was a big change. all the hoardings and boards were in the local language only. i couldn't find any sign or board in english or hindi, which created a bit of problem while traveling. local people can't understand us, and neither there were hoardings and boards to tell the exact location.

  Its a government order too, in order to promote the language.
  In Tamil Nadu, there is a rules such that the shop name board should be written in Tamil.
• 

  Dancer_Engineer

  I agree to all the points mentioned above.
  But I have a doubt here.
  
  My Mother tongue is Telugu. I'm currently staying in Mumbai. So what am I supposed to do? Learn the Technology in Telugu or Marathi or both? And suppose if tomorrow I'm transferred to another state in India, say to Kolkata, then what am I supposed to do? Learn the Technology in Bengali? So do I keep on updating myself to the latest Technology or the language? 😐
• 

  Dancer_Engineer

  lovejeet

  yup. south Indians have a strange beholding love to their mother tongue.

  I'm not defending, but I think it's the case with every human being. Everybody is comfortable and love to speak in their own Mother tongue. And let's not forget the ratio when you are in a foreign land, you are just one compared to the rest of the mass. Do you expect the entire mass to learn your language so that you are comfortable? No!
• 

  Tanu Pawar

  solution to all above is one....!!! hv one language in common, that's it!!!we have english right now!!!👍
• 

  silverscorpion

  ^^ And why do you think that is a solution? Don't you want to preserve your own language? It would have definitely been better if we had only one language from the start. However, we didnt. We each have our own languages and our own literature. If not for our own sake, we must preserve our languages at least for our future generations.
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  Tanu Pawar

  solution to all above is one....!!! hv one language in common, that's it!!!we have english right now!!!👍

  Not really. I had that opinion for long; and one of the main reasons why we decided to choose 'English' as the primary language of this forum. Have you noticed - we never had Japanese, Europeans and Russians participating in this forum! Why? Because they simply do accept English.
  
  I do not say that I've a concrete solution to the problem of languages; but I'm very confident that there will be a solution.
  
  English is far from being the perfect languages. If there has to be 'one' language - then it has to be the one that's better at grammar than English.
• 

  Tanu Pawar

  I didnt at all mention to abt forgetting our own language or literature....just the thing is that we need a common language to communicate in...!nd we have english....for nw...if i start talking in my mother tongue in this forum...rarely people will understand what i am trying to speak....!!!I do believe in preserving our own culture !!!
• 

  lovejeet

  Dancer_Engineer

  I'm not defending, but I think it's the case with every human being. Everybody is comfortable and love to speak in their own Mother tongue. And let's not forget the ratio when you are in a foreign land, you are just one compared to the rest of the mass. Do you expect the entire mass to learn your language so that you are comfortable? No!

  yup. we should give importance to our mother tongue, since we are the most comfortable in it. but the thing is, we should equally respect the other languages too. we can't progress if we are limited to just our own language. there is a famous saying in Sanskrit:-
  "ati sarvartra varjayet". which means access of everything is dangerous. so concluding, we should not be too conservative for our mother tongue that we cut ourselves from rest of the world.
• 

  Dancer_Engineer

  lovejeet

  yup. we should give importance to our mother tongue, since we are the most comfortable in it. but the thing is, we should equally respect the other languages too. we can't progress if we are limited to just our own language. there is a famous saying in Sanskrit:-
  "ati sarvartra varjayet". which means access of everything is dangerous. so concluding, we should not be too conservative for our mother tongue that we cut ourselves from rest of the world.

  Yes, exactly!
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  Let me make it clear that this thread is not about promoting education in 'one' language. I had my own realizations about the language after thinking a bit about why the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Europeans have been able to make significant achievements in Engineering, Technology, Sciences, Manufacturing etc. without adopting English.
  
  With India - people may see a different problem. I'd rather draw similarities between India and Europe. Europe has small countries and India has small states. European countries have their own languages while Indian states have been created on the basis of languages. If Norway (small European country) can make significant progress without needing English, why can't Tamil Nadu make the same with Tamil? Why can't the systems evolve to promote localized innovation?
  
  If language was a problem - how come India did so very well in the past that it had its own advanced theories and inventions 1000s of years before they were 'invented' by the world ( 😀 ).
  
  Of course, I do not hate any language nor I intend to promote any language. All I'm saying is that if we want a common language then it has to be the language that's perfect in grammar (...and do we need a debate on this?).
  
  Give it a thought.
• 

  circularsquare

  Most people will agree that India has got many jobless people. What I suggest will create sufficient jobs for some people and will also solve this language problem to a small extent.
  
  I have seen MIT lectures on net where a person stands in the class and tells in sign language what the professor is teaching. I am assuming they do this for any deaf students who may be present in the class.
  
  What I have to say is something similar. Why don't we keep translators in every classroom. The professor can teach in the language he/she is comfortable with and at the same time a translator could translate that in local language. And the audio of choice should be listened via headphones by the students.
  
  I agree that this would need cheaper technology . But this could be something which could be tried in the future.
  
  What I have said happens in international political summits and conferences.
  
  Rather than having a language imposed upon students , this will give them somewhat freedom of choice.
  
  This solution is to be tried not in schools because there are too many of them. But this could be done in higher educational institutes. And they are the ones which have the maximum number of out-of-state students. So this solution could provide relief there.
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  @circularsquare: That's a great option. Why can't we develop real time language translators? You simply run the app and it translates everything in your choice of language in the real time!
  
  WOW!
• 

  circularsquare

  The_Big_K

  @circularsquare: That's a great option. Why can't we develop real time language translators? You simply run the app and it translates everything in your choice of language in the real time!
  
  WOW!

  
  A little google search shows that there is a lot of research going on concerning this. There seems to be an android app which does something similar.
  
  #-Link-Snipped-#
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  Posting the video from above link-
  
  
• 

  Ramani Aswath

  The_Big_K

  If language was a problem - how come India did so very well in the past that it had its own advanced theories and inventions 1000s of years before they were 'invented' by the world ( 😀 ).
  All I'm saying is that if we want a common language then it has to be the language that's perfect in grammar

  I am aware of two areas in the history of science in India: Astronomy and medicine (general and surgical). In both almost all written material is in Sanskrit, a language that has a near perfect grammar. It was a common spoken language, not one of just brahmin scholars.
  Valmiki, who wrote the Ramayana, was a hunter.
• 

  circularsquare

  bioramani

  I am aware of two areas in the history of science in India: Astronomy and medicine (general and surgical). In both almost all written material is in Sanskrit, a language that has a near perfect grammar. It was a common spoken language, not one of just brahmin scholars.
  Valmiki, who wrote the Ramayana, was a hunter.

  In 1985 Sanskrit was proposed as a metalanguage to be used for computational linguistics. I quote wikipedia :-
  

  There have been suggestions to use Sanskrit as a Metalanguage for knowledge representation in e.g. Machine Translation, and other areas of Natural Language Processing because of its relatively high regular structure

  (Sanskrit Cite Ref 53)
• 

  lovejeet

  c
  

  The_Big_K

  Let me make it clear that this thread is not about promoting education in 'one' language. I had my own realizations about the language after thinking a bit about why the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Europeans have been able to make significant achievements in Engineering, Technology, Sciences, Manufacturing etc. without adopting English.
  
  With India - people may see a different problem. I'd rather draw similarities between India and Europe. Europe has small countries and India has small states. European countries have their own languages while Indian states have been created on the basis of languages. If Norway (small European country) can make significant progress without needing English, why can't Tamil Nadu make the same with Tamil? Why can't the systems evolve to promote localized innovation?
  
  If language was a problem - how come India did so very well in the past that it had its own advanced theories and inventions 1000s of years before they were 'invented' by the world ( 😀 ).
  
  Of course, I do not hate any language nor I intend to promote any language. All I'm saying is that if we want a common language then it has to be the language that's perfect in grammar (...and do we need a debate on this?).
  
  Give it a thought.

  comparing india and europe isn't perfectly feasible. with the controlled population and good economic standard, technological advancements are liable there. it's like, you will think about the rest when you will have your belly satisfied. in india, most of the population comprises of daily-waged workers, who have nothing else more to worry then aquiring the bread for the day. our education system is more like preparing the jacks of all fields rather than preparing the master of one. but in case of language, we are far more dynamic and adaptive to foreign languages.
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  lovejeet

  c
  
  comparing india and europe isn't perfectly feasible. with the controlled population and good economic standard, technological advancements are liable there. it's like, you will think about the rest when you will have your belly satisfied. in india, most of the population comprises of daily-waged workers, who have nothing else more to worry then aquiring the bread for the day. our education system is more like preparing the jacks of all fields rather than preparing the master of one. but in case of language, we are far more dynamic and adaptive to foreign languages.

  Wonder why European countries are more advanced? Why is Japan years ahead of India even when they had almost *nothing* to start with?
  
  I wonder why population quickly became such a huge problem for India. No one really wrote about the problem of population prior to Independence?
• 

  lovejeet

  The_Big_K

  Wonder why European countries are more advanced? Why is Japan years ahead of India even when they had almost *nothing* to start with?
  
  I wonder why population quickly became such a huge problem for India. No one really wrote about the problem of population prior to Independence?

  one of the main reason is lack of discipline. i watched the movie 'The last samurai', and was amazed to the the controlled and disciplined life of people of japan. in india, people just go on increasing the counts and then putting all the blame on God. hahahahahahaha.........
  another reason in the development of japan and Israel is the continuous challenge they have to go through. japan has a tough time dealing with all kinds of natural disasters it can, and Israel is surrounded by the countries opposite to it. so these hard times gives them the strength to do better in every circumstances they had to go through.
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  lovejeet

  another reason in the development of japan and Israel is the continuous challenge they have to go through. japan has a tough time dealing with all kinds of natural disasters it can, and Israel is surrounded by the countries opposite to it. so these hard times gives them the strength to do better in every circumstances they had to go through.

  This is interesting. So, do Indians need more challenges to be stronger?
  
  PS: I think the discussion has been derailed. Let's get back on the track.
• 

  lovejeet

  The_Big_K

  This is interesting. So, do Indians need more challenges to be stronger?
  
  PS: I think the discussion has been derailed. Let's get back on the track.

  obviously. the gold glows only after it has been processed with the high heat.
• 

  Vivien.hugo

  Anyway, English is the most popular language in the world. Teach technology in English can also help improve English although it's not easy to understand as mother language. I think it will be better if the teacher shows technology with demo, not too much talk.
• 

  Gurjap

  I've read through some posts in this thread, and I have to say that I've had it with those hypocritical ancestor-worshipers who think we should be bringing dead languages back, or worse, that we should teach technology in Indian languages.
  
  

  Germany is famous for engineering and they don't speak English.

  is what The Big K says. Have you looked lately at their inventors? Diesel, Benz, Daimler...... all world-class inventors, top-notch ground breaking pioneers of the IC engine. Since they broke the path and they were Germans, it is no wonder their work is in German, and the Germans have a word for "IC Engine" in German, whereas we do NOT have one (when we do not raise ghosts by translating such technical terms in laughable and ridiculous Sanskrit. To cite, "Mechanical Engineering" is "Yantriki Abhiyantriki" in Sankrit. I'd rather say "Mechanical Engineering", thank you very much, my Indian roots be damned). I envy the Germans passionately for that.
  
  If you don't want to talk engineering, try finding the words for "Photoelectric Effect" or "Carbon Fiber" or something like that. Bottomline: We did not invent these things. Western people did. Let us stop being hypocrites and not try to steal what's not ours.
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  #-Link-Snipped-#: Are you aware that most of the Indian languages have 10x more words than English?
• 

  Gurjap

  I was not. But then again, I don't think learning new words for "longing" and "love" is of any practical use.
  
  I was referring to technical terms, used daily by engineers all over the world. How many of them are Indian?
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  I don't subscribe to your thought that germans have a word for IC engines and other languages don't. Ideally, the world should speak only one language; but it doesn't work that way. I often wonder why a small countries like Japan, Denmark, Israel, Germany, France continue to teach technical disciplines in their own languages. I had an opportunity to visit Israel last year and I was totally shocked to learn that all the hardcore technical stuff was being taught in Hebrew! My immediate reaction was, do you have all the technical words; and their response was clever. They said we have adopted the words from popular languages but we continue to keep the medium of communication and teach as Hebrew. Oh and these guys were the ones working on cutting edge technology for Intel & Google! They didn't speak English very well, but that didn't seem to go against their progress in any way.
  
  Regarding the 'India didn't invent'; I believe a lot of research needs to be done. Probably, Indians are grown up with the thought that they didn't invent a thing! But a curious look at history reveals super-amazing things. That's a different topic though.
  
  The point I'm making is about the language of teaching; and that is *not* limited to words. I'm all game for calling 'Mechanical Engineering' as 'Mechanical Engineering' and not 'Yantriki Abhiyantriki'. But I'm all game for teaching mechanical engineering in local languages. Use the words you find easy to use; but teach using local language.
  
  ...and this talk is not limited to teaching in Indian languages. Applies to French, German, Japanese and so on.
• 

  Ankita Katdare

  Gurjap

  I was not. But then again, I don't think learning new words for "longing" and "love" is of any practical use.
  I was referring to technical terms, used daily by engineers all over the world. How many of them are Indian?

  That's the point. We are losing it.
  Do you have any proof when you say there are no alternate words for the technical jargon we use in Sanskrit or for that matter other Indian languages? The Germans, the Japanese, the Chinese all use THEIR own languages to study things and create awesome, path-breaking innovations.
  
  Here's an example of what Japanese people do. They twist and turn the English language words so that it fits their script. Example: They pronounce 'light' as 'raa-i-to'. So basically, it's about being comfortable with the language. They don't 'invent' words to replace all the jargon.
  
  We spend too much time trying to learn a new language than getting accustomed to learning things in a language that we hear everyday right from the day we are born.
  
  
  PS:
  
  

  laughable and ridiculous Sanskrit.

  my Indian roots be damned

  No offense, but disappointed.
• 

  Gurjap

  They said we have adopted the words from popular languages but we continue to keep the medium of communication and teach as Hebrew.

  Very clever indeed. This is, however, what I meant when I said "let's not steal what's not ours". We did not invent any modern technology that feeds, clothes and houses us and allows us to have a social life. We pay for that by learning European languages.
  
  

  I don't subscribe to your thought that germans have a word for IC engines and other languages don't.

  I never said other languages don't have a word for IC engine. I was merely quoting an example. The French and the Japanese have their own words. That is so because they are also pioneers in this field. Hindi, our so called "National Language", does not have a word for it. Do you agree?
  
  

  No offense, but disappointed.

  No offense taken at all, I assure you. I understand what you mean. When I make this point, even the best of my friends are shocked. But I am sure you can relate to my frustration. People keep flogging this dead horse of Sanskrit, and I know it is a brilliant language yada yada yada.. but it is also a dead language, and people keep trying to bring it back for some patriotic reason I simply cannot understand.
• 

  Ramani Aswath

  NASA on Sanskrit & Artificial Intelligence by Rick Briggs
  #-Link-Snipped-#
  First Sanskrit Computational Linguistics Symposium Program
  Sanskrit is quite alive in certain technical areas. It is also an active language in pockets in South India. It is a beautiful language and fully structured without the quirks that defy any logic, which abound in English. Because of circumstances, I never formally studied my mother tongue till well into college. I had to study in English. I love that language inspite of its peculiarities.
  However, there is no need to be forever under bondage to that. Whreevr needed use the foreign term but in the local script as is common in Kerala. The basic medium can be the local language.
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  If I'm not mistaken, Sanskrit is the only language in the world that's grammatically *perfect*. Now, this debate is not about showing one language better than other. We respect all the languages, and even decided to use English as the primary language of communication here on CE.
  
  My point is the medium of teaching has to be mother-tongue. You can adopt thousand words to suit the needs.
  
  Why? Because we learn new things through 'association'. Our brain is trained to associate the new things with the things it's already known and I think mother-tongue plays a crucial role in it.
• 

  Ramani Aswath

  The_Big_K

  Why? Because we learn new things through 'association'. Our brain is trained to associate the new things with the things it's already known and I think mother-tongue plays a crucial role in it.

  Hits it on the head. Association is the cornerstone of creativity. Anything that furthers association must be encouraged.
• 

  ISHAN TOPRE

  The_Big_K

  The point I'm making is about the language of teaching; and that is *not* limited to words. I'm all game for calling 'Mechanical Engineering' as 'Mechanical Engineering' and not 'Yantriki Abhiyantriki'. But I'm all game for teaching mechanical engineering in local languages. Use the words you find easy to use; but teach using local language.

  When I start talking in Marathi, many people near me cannot understand what I am talking. Like I say to my mother, today doctor is going to come, please check your blood pressure-
  
  आज वैद्य घरी येणार आहे. रक्तचाप तपासून घे.
  
  
  or while talking to my friends (who have girl friends😨)-
  
  That girl wearing black clothes... ती काळे वस्त्र परिधान केलेली कन्या...
  People do not understand and start laughing. Actually the language is derived from Sanskrit and makes logic because we can associate it.
  
  Now, there was a discussion some where on CE. and #-Link-Snipped-# posted about "Gyroscope", it took me a few hours to strike that he was actually talking about "Bhawra" that we used to play until age of 7-8 ☕
• 

  Ramani Aswath

  Issue

  That girl wearing black clothes... ती काळे वस्त्र परिधान केलेली कन्या...
  People do not understand and start laughing. Actually the language is derived from Sanskrit and makes logic because we can associate it.Now, there was a discussion some where on CE. and #-Link-Snipped-# posted about "Gyroscope", it took me a few hours to strike that he was actually talking about "Bhawra" that we used to play until age of 7-8 ☕

  That is the point. If we do not have to rigidly follow the teach in English rule, we could use bhawra to give an analogy. Ultimately the knowledge transfer has to happen. If using the local language helps it must be done.
  In Madras in the early sixties there was a state government institute giving diploma courses near IIT. Because they were short of staff IIT deputed some of us to go and take a few classes in our specialitities. Since the students come straight from SSLC, many did not have a good grasp of English. I just used a mixture of Tamil and English to get concepts of thermodynamics across. There was no problem at all.
  At the least the teacher must be given the option to use whatever language appropriate at the moment to get the point across. The student should likewise be permitted to ask his doubts in a language that can get his requirements across to the teacher. Teaching is a two way communication, not something handed down from above.