Satyam Eva Jayate - Episode On Drinking & Alcoholism

Today's episode seems to be dedicated to drinking and alcoholism. I'm quite sure there are many CEans who drink in the name of social drinking. Now this, I know, is a sensitive issue and people are very biased about it.

Do watch the episode and post your opinion. If the episode goes on YouTube, I'll share it here.

Replies

  • Ankita Katdare
    Ankita Katdare
    I hope Aamir Khan declares that he won't drink ever. That will create an impact.
  • Anoop Kumar
    Anoop Kumar
    Here is full episode....

  • Anoop Kumar
    Anoop Kumar
    I have seen some of the cases in which this alcoholism just derailed the life of person and in one case even whole family.

    Following quote from episode
    People in India drink alcohol, to get drunk.
    This is 100% true.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Message Delivered: Drink, but under limits.

    #Fail. Aamir Khan.
  • Ankita Katdare
    Ankita Katdare
    They should show how to say 'NO' the first time.
    tumblr_m6exqt4Tvk1qg8sk0o2_r1_400
  • Ankita Katdare
    Ankita Katdare
    There is no such thing as "Drink Responsibly". ๐Ÿ˜ก
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Those who understand Hindi, may listen to this lecture by Rajiv Dixit :



    If someone wants to translate this into English, I'd more than welcome the post.

    PS: My views are pretty extreme on the topic of alcohol consumption and smoking. People find them Jurassic and old-fashioned, unfortunately.
  • Pensu
    Pensu
    I guess government can ban alcohol. But the problem is, its one of the biggest revenue generator. No-one wants to loose money.

    P.S: Gujrat is the only state in India where alcohol is completely banned and is still developing. May be other state governments will take some inspiration.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Pensu
    I guess government can ban alcohol. But the problem is, its one of the biggest revenue generator. No-one wants to loose money.

    P.S: Gujrat is the only state in India where alcohol is completely banned and is still developing. May be other state governments will take some inspiration.
    Government is basically useless. I wonder what kind of development Indian Government is planning by destroying the young generation?

    If people stop wasting their money on Liquor, I think the same money can be circulated in other, better means. It's not that liquor is 'generating money' for the Government.
  • Pensu
    Pensu
    Actually selling alcohol to minors is crime, but as we know no one takes law seriously in India....๐Ÿ˜› And I completely agree with one point:

    People drink in India to get drunk.
    Its not that alcohol is available only in India, the difference is rules are more strict in outer world. In western countries its hard for minors to get alcohol. But in our country, specially in Goa, Haryana, Pudducherry etc, where alcohol is tax free and cheap, you can find even 12-13 year old children consuming alcohol. Thats a real shame. What we need is a strict law which can generate fear in people.
  • Ankita Katdare
    Ankita Katdare
    Pensu
    Actually selling alcohol to minors is crime, but as we know no one takes law seriously in India....๐Ÿ˜› And I completely agree with one point:



    Its not that alcohol is available only in India, the difference is rules are more strict in outer world. In western countries its hard for minors to get alcohol. But in our country, specially in Goa, Haryana, Pudducherry etc, where alcohol is tax free and cheap, you can find even 12-13 year old children consuming alcohol. Thats a real shame. What we need is a strict law which can generate fear in people.
    So you mean to say it is ok for the major (opposite of minor) to take alcohol?
  • Pensu
    Pensu
    AbraKaDabra
    So you mean to say it is ok for the major (opposite of minor) to take alcohol?
    Haha.....Actually I dont want to go in that debate...๐Ÿ˜‰ I just meant that selling alcohol to minors is legally a crime and if that law is followed strictly, its possible that we can see a huge dropouts in alcohol abuse related cases.

    P.S: I am not an extremist in these cases. I dont think you can remove something completely, but yeah you can always put restriction on that to control it. ๐Ÿ˜€
  • sridhar4362
    sridhar4362
    We may think government is not strict it is not following the law. I think it is not about the major or minor everyone one is getting effected directly or indirectly so i feel government should start concentrate on minimizing the liqour shops because i have seen one place where there is no current,no proper drinking water,no temple but there is a wine shop i felt so bad๐Ÿ‘Ž.

    so plz lets join and work against main disease rather than killing it by the medicine.๐Ÿ‘
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    I do not drink at all. I have an alcohol intolerance. Having worked long in a medical research institute, I also know that alcohol seems to have some cardio-vascular benefits. However, this may not be true for all.
    Overall best avoided.
    #-Link-Snipped-#
  • Ankita Katdare
    Ankita Katdare
    huge dropouts in alcohol abuse related cases.
    I think we should not differentiate here between major and minor. When we say minors can't drink and majors can, it instills curiosity among minors about alcohol and apparently everyone who comes of so-called 'drinking age' wants to drink. In fact, when majors drink there are more chances that > they abuse their family (wife, children) and it is difficult to convince an old man to leave an old habit.
    I agree with #-Link-Snipped-# that it should be avoided by everyone. Age isn't a matter here.

    I just wish Aamir had not said that line in the end, "Drink in limits or Drink responsibly" There is no such thing. It killed the whole point of the show.
  • Pensu
    Pensu
    AbraKaDabra
    I think we should not differentiate here between major and minor. When we say minors can't drink and majors can, it instills curiosity among minors about alcohol and apparently everyone who comes of so-called 'drinking age' wants to drink. In fact, when majors drink there are more chances that > they abuse their family (wife, children) and it is difficult to convince an old man to leave an old habit.
    I agree with #-Link-Snipped-# that it should be avoided by everyone. Age isn't a matter here.

    I just wish Aamir had not said that line in the end, "Drink in limits or Drink responsibly" There is no such thing. It killed the whole point of the show.
    Agreed Completely. No one should drink. ๐Ÿ˜€
  • Smriti Jha
    Smriti Jha
    To each his own. Ban drinking? No.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Smriti Jha
    To each his own. Ban drinking? No.
    Hmm, why not?
  • Pensu
    Pensu
    Its going to be interesting....๐Ÿ˜‰ yes, #-Link-Snipped-# why not? ๐Ÿ˜›
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    Alcohol is in a sense a nutrient. Not very hazardous in small amounts. As I said, may even be beneficial in some cases. A huge meta study published in the British Medical Journal among doctors confirms this.
    Maybe each one should be allowed to go to hell in his/her own way so long as it does not put a strain on the resources of the country. In the case of tobacco, there is a huge drain of healthcare funds directly traceable to smoking, snuffing or chewing tobacco.
    I am not so sure about drink. Cirrhosis of the liver leads to malnutrition and eventual demise. Neurological deficiencies may also occur with abuse. Poor social conduct is another nuisance. Fairly minor events.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Cough syrups, I'm told have alcohol. In countries where the temperature is always around 0 degrees, it may keep people warm when consumed in very limited quantities. However, in India, things are different. Our weather is warm (for most of India) and Alcohol is not permitted by weather as well.

    For the sake of argument, I can argue that even the drugs [ the 'drugs', not medicine ] shouldn't be banned. Why? Come on! Let me have drugs in my own apartment, without disturbing anyone, without messing up with anyone's lives, with my own money! I'm doing no harm to anyone else so why should the drugs be banned? Let's call it 'Social Drugging'. Would anyone support drugs if they're being consumed in private?

    I've seen my friends go waste after the booze. It's so painful that they do not admit that they're getting drunk. Instead, they flaunt about their 'capacity'.

    What bothers me is that we're fast moving towards a society where everything except direct physical abuse can be debated and accepted in the name of 'freedom' and 'choice'.
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    Hashish is an accepted accompaniment to Hookah in Kashmir. That is different. I would not care for that sort of thing.
    Abuse of food leads to obesity and many health problems. Somehow I feel alcohol is not in the same league. I have seen and still seeing enough of the ill effects of alcohol abuse among people close to me. At least one premature death of a competent high executive. It is bad. But so is all abuse bad.
    This sort of thing happens smack in the city centre (I can see Church street from my eleventh floor office window) on banned narcotics:
    #-Link-Snipped-#
  • Sahithi Pallavi
    Sahithi Pallavi
    AbraKaDabra
    I think we should not differentiate here between major and minor. When we say minors can't drink and majors can, it instills curiosity among minors about alcohol and apparently everyone who comes of so-called 'drinking age' wants to drink. In fact, when majors drink there are more chances that > they abuse their family (wife, children) and it is difficult to convince an old man to leave an old habit.
    I agree with #-Link-Snipped-# that it should be avoided by everyone. Age isn't a matter here.
    I just wish Aamir had not said that line in the end, "Drink in limits or Drink responsibly" There is no such thing. It killed the whole point of the show.
    That's right #-Link-Snipped-# . Drinking is useless and health hazard and most of the people can't quit it even though they want. Then why in limits? ๐Ÿ˜”
    Government failed, Amir failed and People failed !!
  • X-Engineer
    X-Engineer
    Ban drinking? No.
    I would rather like to ban the mms circulating in internet rather than drinking...

    drinking causes harm to self.....but the latter causes problems to others...Y DO SO??

    Sorry to divert the topic....just said my feeling....

    CHEERS..
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Anyone wants to take up the argument on 'drug consumption in private' should be acceptable?
  • Sahithi Pallavi
    Sahithi Pallavi
    Government has it's own waste rules over drinking, drugging, playing cards whatever. #shameless.
    We can't do anything than shouting our voice here.
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    In my opinion we are not all meaning the same thing when we say drinking is good or bad.
    Here is the meta study report that quantifies results:
    Association of alcohol consumption with selected cardiovascular disease outcomes: a systematic review and meta-analysis | The BMJ
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    The_Big_K
    Anyone wants to take up the argument on 'drug consumption in private' should be acceptable?
    Acceptable to whom? Someone taking drugs at home and beats up the wife and kids under the influence is abhorrent. Existing drug control act should have prevented access in the first place. A similar restriction making alcohol available on prescription could be thought of. Whatever the rules, Indians have a knack of finding many loop holes.
    Unfortunately many of the narcotics and pschodelic agents have a legitimate medical use in relieving suffering in terminally ill patients. A lot of drugs got under this guise is syphoned off for gain.
    Regrettably surfacing even at repectable schools.
    Motivating people with pep talk may not help, as pointed out in another thread on motivational speeches.
    Something as simple as a cough syrup can be abused. Sale of OTC cough syrup to teens is rampant in Bangalore. If all of the buyers had cough the decibel level in Bangalore should have been much higher than the present intolerable level.
    No, private drug consumption is not acceptable. Yet, it exists. How to counter it?
    For almost each substance being so abused, there is a toll free 24/7 counselling line to help the abuser to overcome the habit. That such lines exist is itself an indicator of the extent of the rot in the society.
    #-Link-Snipped-#
    Peer pressure helps. So let each one of of us do our bit to discourage his/her acquaintances from falling prey to drug abuse.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Sorry; my post was just sarcastic. My friends would say 'I'm consuming alcohol in may apartment, bought with my own money, and I'm enjoying with my friends' - why should anyone bother.
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    It may bother me. But can I do anything at all about it? If they are not creating a nuisance and disturbing the peace, I cannot even call the police.
  • Anoop Kumar
    Anoop Kumar
    If govt. is making so much revenue from Alcohol, apply heavy custom duty + 50% VAT + min. 10K fine on drink & drive. Now, let people waste their money on alcohol.
  • Smriti Jha
    Smriti Jha
    The_Big_K
    Hmm, why not?
    Because that's being paranoid.
  • Prashanth_p@cchi
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    Smriti Jha
    Because that's being paranoid.
    Paranoid??? That's wrong!!!!!!
    There is Gujarat which has banned it. Everything seems to be fine there. Why not implement it in all other states???

    'I'm consuming alcohol in may apartment, bought with my own money, and I'm enjoying with my friends' - why should anyone bother.

    #-Link-Snipped-#: For those who say the above, well one should ask them "What do you gain by drinking alcohol??? Pleasure???? Knowledge???? Satisfaction???". Well, no one can give a proper answer for that.

    if they mentioned Enjoying with friends, as in the above case. I think there are lot better ways to enjoy, other than drink and involve in useless and rubbish discussions!!!!

    @AKD: I agree that Aamir should not have said that at last. It ruined everything!!!
  • Prashanth_p@cchi
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    Pensu
    I guess government can ban alcohol. But the problem is, its one of the biggest revenue generator. No-one wants to loose money.

    P.S: Gujrat is the only state in India where alcohol is completely banned and is still developing. May be other state governments will take some inspiration.

    The government knows many ways to compensate for the loss, and we all know that. We the public are the target they first think of (Increase prices/tax etc etc.).

    I think all of the non-alcoholic community will be happier to pay 50ps more for milk or whatever rather than seeing their alcoholic friends/mates/family members ruin their own and other's life!
  • Smriti Jha
    Smriti Jha
    Ah! Society and its avocation of objectifying the "evil" so that it can eliminate the iniquity to bring widespread peace and idealism.

    Alcohol, at most, lowers your inhibitions. As far as my understanding goes, it does not introduce or add a specific violent or loud nature to a human being. An excuse, more of, for our drunky Joe to be more expressive, rather than the "source of all evil" it is usually made out to be.

    If I were to present a simple analogy for the masses, I'd say think of the society as a mother, who just wouldn't accept that her child could be ever responsible of immoral behavior. She'd comfortably blame the "bad influence", that be a school, friends or technology.

    Most people, my age, drink usually to celebrate freedom, from work, exams or a tiring phase of life. It usually marks the end of things, hence also probably mostly consumed at night. I know my friends to be not that juvenile, drunk or sober. Little slow maybe, but not dangerous.
  • Smriti Jha
    Smriti Jha
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    Paranoid??? That's wrong!!!!!!
    There is Gujarat which has banned it. Everything seems to be fine there. Why not implement it in all other states???

    For those who say the above, well one should ask them "What do you gain by drinking alcohol??? Pleasure???? Knowledge???? Satisfaction???". Well, no one can give a proper answer for that.

    if they mentioned Enjoying with friends, as in the above case. I think there are lot better ways to enjoy, other than drink and involve in useless and rubbish discussions!!!!
    Naw, it is fun. Now, why are you so intimidated by your drunk friends?
  • Pensu
    Pensu
    Drinking has emerged as a way to forget problems and believe me it does help...๐Ÿ˜‰ The problem is once you start, there is no way to stop. Yes, you can say first time you had only one drink that too just for taste but eventually it becomes several drinks at a time. There are other ways to celebrate but few to cope with depression. And then there comes the alcohol. I know for a fact that it enhances your emotions, now if you are angry with someone or you have a violent nature, something wrong is surely gonna happen. I know the statement sounds contradictory but it is as it is. It is not bad until its a habit...๐Ÿ˜€
    On the other hand, banning it isnt the solution. A lot of things are banned in our country, but still you can find them easily. The only solution is that ppl need to understand that harms of alcohol overshadow its benefits.
  • Prashanth_p@cchi
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    Smriti Jha
    Now, why are you so intimidated by your drunk friends?
    When did i mention that?
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Ok, let's control emotions here ๐Ÿ˜€ Nothing personal.

    People who drink hold that it's fun and will continue to argue in favor of it till the end of the time. My friend, who's 'been there, lived life, enjoyed everything, done that' would comfortably argue that alcohol, smoking, drugs is all fine as long as you don't mess with the people.

    As I said earlier, the society is rapidly being filled with people who think everything except direct physical abuse is 'allowed', debatable and acceptable.
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    The curious thing about addiction is that the addict rarely enjoys the addiction. The horror is that beyond a point there is no pleasure. One does it as an automaton. One is not even aware of indulging.
    What scared me was that once I took out a cigarette and brought it to my lips only to find that I was already having one dangling from my lips.
  • Ankita Katdare
    Ankita Katdare
    the society is rapidly being filled with people who think everything except direct physical abuse is 'allowed', debatable and acceptable.
    That just means there is no solution to it. People won't realize that it is harmful, till they suffer.
  • Smriti Jha
    Smriti Jha
    Till there is man, and there exist sources undiscovered or banished from society, one curious soul will always wander off and be labeled an outsider.

    Only now, the concept of an "outsider" has come to be tolerated by society. I understand @The_Big_K's concern over where to draw the line, but banning things would be an impellent move which only a persuasive man like Narendra Modi could pull off.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    I must say the debate, or rather expression of thoughts, have gone a long way, but people are just scratching the surface of it.
    To be straightforward in one point of mine, let me warn you, that if you haven't indulged in any of these things, do NOT talk anything here. Seriously those people simply do not know what alcoholism is, what tobacco is, what it is, what effect does it have on the body, on your nerves, anything. I am talking about people who do not know what addiction is. If you simply have no idea what you are talking, how can you even possibly say that you have to ban them?
    How can a person say that a guy having any of these things are bad without even one instance where these people have behaved badly?
    May be there are people who create public nuisance after abuse of these things. But there are not much people doing that. Almost 50percent of people do not make abuse of alcohol.
    The greatest achievement of a person is not controlling his senses against unknown sources, but in controlling his senses against things he/she knows.


    Now, a piece of thought. I wonder, why do people eat sleeping pills if they do not get sleep? Most of them get addicted to that too? Should we ban sleeping pills too?
    Almost 85 percent of people I know are addicted to Avil 25 and Paracetamol. When they have some allergy or feverishness (Most of the times, it is not there, but they feel it), they take these medicines. A friend of mine lost his mother 2 years back because of liver damage caused due to excess intake of Paracetamol Tablets. Should we ban that too? Oh, and food should also be banned, as Bioramani sir pointed out a flaw from that too.

    Dear friends of mine, please understand that there can never be a world where only good things are available. Everything has two sides, a good side and a bad side. The ideal position is neither at the good side, nor at the bad side. It is in the middle of it. You must balance it there.
    If alcohol is banned, something else will take its place. If that is banned, something else will. That is the rule of nature. Something must be there to represent the "dark". You cannot get rid of it.

    People must balance themselves between all these factors. That is life, dear friends.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    #-Link-Snipped-# : I haven't been involved in corruption so far in my life of any sorts. Do I have no rights to talk about or against corruption?

    Those who haven't committed suicide - can't talk about it. Right? ๐Ÿ˜›

    Addendum, because this is *totally* interesting !

    Medicines and alcohol are two different things right? Alcohol, as a chemical drug, when prescribed by the doctor (in the form of cough syrups, in the suggested dosage) is 'OKAY'.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    The_Big_K
    #-Link-Snipped-# : I haven't been involved in corruption so far in my life of any sorts. Do I have no rights to talk about or against corruption?

    Those who haven't committed suicide - can't talk about it. Right? ๐Ÿ˜›

    Addendum, because this is *totally* interesting !

    Medicines and alcohol are two different things right? Alcohol, as a chemical drug, when prescribed by the doctor (in the form of cough syrups, in the suggested dosage) is 'OKAY'.
    Corruption and suicide are not addictions. Please do not confuse. We are talking about things which affect our body, our physical senses. You are talking about mental agony. Lets not spread this whole thing like an oil slick. Control it to just physical point of view. If you are not much satisfied with restricting the whole thing into just physical point of view, let me war you, I am not a philosopher, but I die trying, if not successful.
  • Manashree Thokal
    Manashree Thokal
    People drink for fun and end up appearing stupid in front of others. I don't understand why people drink, but I know there are many different reasons each may give. Hence, limits, may be!

    But the episode was good. There were examples which clearly conveyed the message that alcohol is bad. Even my friends got it, few are quitting it for ever ๐Ÿ˜
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Of course, 'corruption' is not an addiction. I was only using it as an analogy to counter the reasoning that your post offered. On the other hand, I 'can' argue that corruption is an addiction. But I'll keep it for another debate in the debate section.

    Eating sleeping pills is a bad addiction and I'm 100% sure no doctor would ever recommend consuming them regularly (unless pressured by the drug manufacturing companies).

    Taking a pill when needed shouldn't be considered as addiction.

    I take food, when I'm hungry. Am I 'Addicted' to the food?

    People don't have a sense of what's right and what's wrong. But there's a simple question that can give you immediate answer -

    "Will this make my parents proud?"

    Now, unless parents are drunkard and support their kids consuming alcohol; the answer would be 'no'.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    To be very basic, whether one must stop drinking or not is in that person's discretion. If he feels a need to go on, no one must stop that person. If he feels like he has to quit it, he has to. Humans can quit it, if he gets a strong enough reason. There is no point in discussing it, to be frank. At least, if you want to knock some sense in, try to help those who want to quit. Devise some plans of action which can be used to help those people who want to get rid of that habit. Can we do that? Naah, its easier to find mistakes than to solve them. I think that is a more credible way of "solving a problem".
    Dude, put this in your mind. If you have an epidemic running wild in your locality, what will you do? Will you find a cure to it, or will you find a vaccination to it? First try to cure it, then vaccinate(read as 'ban') it. And to cure any disease/addiction, the permission/desire of the person is highly required.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    We aren't talking about helping those who drink. I'd disagree with

    If he feels a need to go on, no one must stop that person
    What if the person drinks and drives and kills innocent people? (What the SMJ episode shared on the first page of this thread). If you ask anyone whether they want to drink, drive and kill - the answer will be 'NO'. If people knew where to draw lines; there won't be drunk drive accidents in the first place. The thing is : People DO NOT know what's right and wrong. They simply go with what others are doing. That's why I'm in support of total ban on liquor.

    If he feels a need to go on, no one must stop that person
    I argued before that with the logic, I can even debate that there shouldn't be *any* law in place. Let me jump the signal without hurting anyone. Let me do the drugs in private and so on. As long as I'm not physically hurting anyone; everything should be allowed.

    Am I making sense?
  • Mayur Pathak
    Mayur Pathak
    I'm surprised none of the moral police constables here never mentioned this. But alcohol in India is a Taboo. Believe it or not, accept it or not, it is! In our society driven by too many moral values, we dont easily accept people who smoke or drink (drug addicts excused, they form a very small %). Hence we hate them, whether they abuse us or mind their business.

    No parent wants their kid to get addicted to any thing, may it be alcohol, drugs, smoking, sex... absolutely any thing. But how does one define addiction? At what quantity of alcohol will you say I'm an addict?

    It is a medically proven fact that little quantity of alcohol in food is actually good for health. But, a little quantity. After all any thing in excess is bad, whether it is whisky, pizza or even water.

    I agree with #-Link-Snipped-#. Only the lamb knows how sharp is the axe. People who never drink will not know what one means by 'Responsible drinking'. If I'm consuming alcohol in quantities that are not harmful to me and I'm not interfering with any one else's freedom to live happily, I should not be told to stop drinking.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Where did 'Moral' kick in? We're science people here, right?
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    The_Big_K
    Of course, 'corruption' is not an addiction. I was only using it as an analogy to counter the reasoning that your post offered. On the other hand, I 'can' argue that corruption is an addiction. But I'll keep it for another debate in the debate section.

    Eating sleeping pills is a bad addiction and I'm 100% sure no doctor would ever recommend consuming them regularly (unless pressured by the drug manufacturing companies).

    Taking a pill when needed shouldn't be considered as addiction.

    I take food, when I'm hungry. Am I 'Addicted' to the food?

    People don't have a sense of what's right and what's wrong. But there's a simple question that can give you immediate answer -

    "Will this make my parents proud?"

    Now, unless parents are drunkard and support their kids consuming alcohol; the answer would be 'no'.
    I use a small rule when i am in a debate. I NEVer try to make a lame counter-argument.
    Its obvious that you can argue that corruption is an addiction. I can counter that too. But both you arguing and me countering will be meaningless, at least to a good 80% of people watching the debate. Its just like the colour of the leaves, in "The Immortals of Meluha". You can say the colour of the leaf is green, because that is visible. But you can also say that the colour of the leaf is everything but green. (Optics, anybody?). As simple as that.
    Food addiction is seen in people. I have seen a few myself. I strongly believe Bioramani sir can shed some light in accord to that.
    The last question you put there, I have answered it in my previous post. If the person has a need to quit, he must.
    One wild, almost personal question. Do you do everything to make your parents proud, or do you do something for yourself too?
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    The_Big_K
    Where did 'Moral' kick in? We're science people here, right?
    LOL Biggie, you make me laugh big time. In personal lines, what happened to you? Tell me, how is Alcoholism a technical debate topic?
  • Mayur Pathak
    Mayur Pathak
    The_Big_K
    Where did 'Moral' kick in? We're science people here, right?
    Give me a scientific explanation of hating and asking people to stop drinking even harmless quantities of alcohol.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Okay, have you heard of something that's called "reading between the lines?".

    Food is an addiction or a necessity? โ˜• Hmm... 'Necessity' saar! Do we even need a debate on it? But I'm open to knowing the basic difference addiction and a necessity.

    The point that seems to be coming up repeatedly is this: "If I'm consuming alcohol in private, without harming anyone, why should anyone bother?"

    To which I replied: "If I'm consuming LSD, Charas, Ganja, Brown Sugar in private, without harming anyone - why should anyone bother?"

    #-Link-Snipped-#: Here's how addiction is defined -


    the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to somethingthat is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics,to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.
    We're quite clear on this. But people won't admit they're addicted ๐Ÿ˜€ .
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    The_Big_K
    We aren't talking about helping those who drink. I'd disagree with



    What if the person drinks and drives and kills innocent people? (What the SMJ episode shared on the first page of this thread). If you ask anyone whether they want to drink, drive and kill - the answer will be 'NO'.
    Hold on! I told you, till the tipping point, everything is fine. If someone does that, he must be given a model punishment. Such a way that he must not think about even looking at his car after he has some alcohol in it. Do one thing, drink some alcohol right away. Then someone calls you to be at some place urgently, as if someone's life depends on it. You will be forced to take to the wheels. That is dangerous.
    Now, as you have mentioned that word MORAL in that above post, let me put something technical in this discussion.
    We can fit a breath-testing machine in every vehicle. Company fitting of the same should be done, and when you want to drive the vehicle, the vehicle will test if you have alcohol in you. If you do, it will refuse to start. No more drunk-and-drive accidents.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    mayurpathak
    Give me a scientific explanation of hating and asking people to stop drinking even harmless quantities of alcohol.
    Who's hating people who drink?
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    The_Big_K
    Who's hating people who drink?
    Biggie, he just "READ BETWEEN THE LINES"
  • Mayur Pathak
    Mayur Pathak
    The_Big_K
    Okay, have you heard of something that's called "reading between the lines?".

    The point that seems to be coming up repeatedly is this: "If I'm consuming alcohol in private, without harming anyone, why should anyone bother?"

    To which I replied: "If I'm consuming LSD, Charas, Ganja, Brown Sugar in private, without harming anyone - why should anyone bother?"

    #-Link-Snipped-#: Here's how addiction is defined -

    We're quite clear on this. But people won't admit they're addicted ๐Ÿ˜€ .
    SO you know what is addiction. You may now also admit that lot of people who drink are not addicts. By definition, they are not. Then why this policing?
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    My point of view about good and bad.
    The whole of humanity is divided into two territories, the "Good" and "Bad" Please note that they are just names. Humanity is in peace when Good and Bad mind their own businesses. Its when any one of them comes in the way of the other, disputes happen. I hope all of you get the hint.
  • Mayur Pathak
    Mayur Pathak
    The_Big_K
    Who's hating people who drink?
    You still haven't given a scientific explanation of asking people to stop drinking, even if they consume harmless quantities of alcohol ๐Ÿ˜€

    While I agree we must educate people of the hazards of excessive alcohol consumption, there are many who are responsible enough not to damage their health, reputation and family.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    Also, we are not having a debate competition. We are trying to find a solution for something. So, please do not look for only the weak links in the posts by others. There are some points which are more positive, and must be taken into account, must be repeated.
    The one who argues the best is not the winner. There is no winner here. Please bear that in mind.
    Satyameva Jayathe...
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    aj_onduty
    Hold on! I told you, till the tipping point, everything is fine. If someone does that, he must be given a model punishment. Such a way that he must not think about even looking at his car after he has some alcohol in it. Do one thing, drink some alcohol right away. Then someone calls you to be at some place urgently, as if someone's life depends on it. You will be forced to take to the wheels. That is dangerous.
    Now, as you have mentioned that word MORAL in that above post, let me put something technical in this discussion.
    We can fit a breath-testing machine in every vehicle. Company fitting of the same should be done, and when you want to drive the vehicle, the vehicle will test if you have alcohol in you. If you do, it will refuse to start. No more drunk-and-drive accidents.
    I didn't begin the 'moral' thing, #-Link-Snipped-# brought it in.

    Let's be on the track, please ๐Ÿ˜€ . Breath analyser isn't directly in synch with the comments here. This discussion isn't about whether drinking is morally right or wrong. The examples I've posted above do not related to 'morality' in any sense.

    As MayurPathak said above - there are no prescribed quantities for what's 'within limit' drinking. I personally have seen my friends go waste with just one peg. They maintained that they were within limits but couldn't even find keys to their cars.

    Alcohol consumption within limits - I think I already talked about this. As a medicine, yes! It's a part of major medicines and it's even consumed regularly in countries where the temps are around zero. I don't know whether it's good or bad for the body.

    'Responsible Drinking' and 'Social Drinking' - how does one know he/she is drinking responsibly drinking? I know 10 people who think they drink 'responsibly' and yet lose senses right away.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    mayurpathak
    You still haven't given a scientific explanation of asking people to stop drinking, even if they consume harmless quantities of alcohol ๐Ÿ˜€

    While I agree we must educate people of the hazards of excessive alcohol consumption, there are many who are responsible enough not to damage their health, reputation and family.
    I'm not asking people to stop drinking. I'm calling for a total ban on liquor ๐Ÿ˜จ. 'harmless' quantities of alcohol. You tell me what it is.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Okay, I'm only responding to comments that have some weight and contribute to this debate.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    #-Link-Snipped-# : Just found answer to 'harmless levels of alcohol' in an authoritative article on TheGuardian: #-Link-Snipped-#

    More: Alcohol 'more harmful than heroin' says Prof David Nutt - BBC News

    Professor David Nutt: "In terms of the cost to society, alcohol causes the biggest harm"

    In Moral we trust -
    alcohol-stats
    Source: BBC article mentioned above.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    The_Big_K
    I didn't begin the 'moral' thing, #-Link-Snipped-# brought it in.
    Awwww Chooo Chweeeet... I've only seen kids and managers do that...
    The_Big_K
    Let's be on the track, please ๐Ÿ˜€ . Breath analyser isn't directly in synch with the comments here.
    You talked about accidents, I talked about the solution to that, just like an Engineer.
    The_Big_K
    This discussion isn't about whether drinking is morally right or wrong. The examples I've posted above do not related to 'morality' in any sense.
    DUH...... You are talking about drinking responsibly, right? Responsible in which way, electrically, mechanically, biotechnologically, or which way of engineering? Responsiblitiy here means social, moral responsibility. At least I feel so.
    The_Big_K
    As MayurPathak said above - there are no prescribed quantities for what's 'within limit' drinking. I personally have seen my friends go waste with just one peg. They maintained that they were within limits but couldn't even find keys to their cars.

    Alcohol consumption within limits - I think I already talked about this. As a medicine, yes! It's a part of major medicines and it's even consumed regularly in countries where the temps are around zero. I don't know whether it's good or bad for the body.

    'Responsible Drinking' and 'Social Drinking' - how does one know he/she is drinking responsibly drinking? I know 10 people who think they drink 'responsibly' and yet lose senses right away.
    You are so good at taking the conversation at the place you want. At the place where no one would find any point in speaking more and wasting his/her precious time. Dude, responsible drinking is something which should be left to the people who drink. Its their business. We do not need to open a debate section in an engineering forum in that, do we?
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    The_Big_K
    Okay, I'm only responding to comments that have some weight and contribute to this debate.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    Level of drinking is something which has to be perfected. If you want to know how much you can drink keeping yourself controllable, you have to actually drink, not depending on what the studies say. That is because it depends from person to person. You need to ask people "how you look to be" after having some alcohol. You can not simply judge yourself in that after a level. Social drinking is something which should be done in moderation, to avoid social embarrassment, nothing else. In business meetings, however, you must just touch your lips at the glass, to keep yourself alert and capitalize at the first opening you get at the person/company on the opposite side. If you are in a room, preferable your own, and you have friends with you, and you don't need to go out for at least 15 hours from that time, you can drink as you may. This is what I know about responsible drinking.
    I hope that responsible/harmless drinking has been sealed by this one. Any other point to put in?
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    An adult sound in mind (we can stretch this a bit to include CEans) is expected to behave responsibly. If I am at home relaxing with a book and a Scotch to hand on the side table, there is nothing much wrong in that I feel. Though in my case that pale brown fluid will be plain, unsweetened tea.
    Alcohol is not toxic to most people in small amounts, unlike tobacco, which is bad at any level.
    The problem as I see it lies in this:'you can't eat just one'
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Sealed? Definitely not. We'll always have people who'll go down the limits to advocate alcohol, tobacco and drugs all the time.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    Oh, you misinterpreted the meaning of "sealed". I apologize for that. I thought we were all referring to this discussion. Don't get so weak Biggie. You are now going down the limits, way down to the point that I felt for a moment that the last sentence is really lame to be spoken from someone of such a repute. Didn't expect that.At the back of my mind, I am feeling as if you are involuntarily mixing a feeling caused by something in your personal front, may be a loss of something due to any of these factors. Well, I do not want to get into that now.
    But yes, I didn't advocate other things you have mentioned. I was talking about alcohol. And, what I meant about sealing it shut was I feel that my words there are clearly defining what responsible drinking is. Anything to be added/modified/clarified can be talked upon.
    Also, there is a pattern in human behavior. Man can be addicted usually to only one or, at the most, two things at a time. If he doesn't get that one thing, you will look for alternatives. There are friends of mine who empty packets of cigarettes in one day, or chew boxes of tobacco(yes, only one of them most of the times). But if they get a chance of having an unlimited supply of alcohol, or cheap alcohol, they can quit chewing tobacco.
    The inference we need to draw is that because people indulge in any one of these pleasures, they avoid, or never opt for other sources of pleasures. They go for what is best available. But if you restrict even that, you are in for hell. If you do not turn a blind eye, alcohol is an antidote for a lot of social problems. But people do not look into those things. They are blinded by those movies which show villains do a lot more brutal acts during their drinking sessions. Most of the rape scenes have at least a bottle as a witness, and much more. But I would appeal people to wake up and look. You are not actually experiencing what a person who uses alcohol has in his/her mind. This is the reason why I told in a previous post that if you haven't had it, you shouldn't speak.
    A graph was shown here, I would like to tell you something what I feel is more precise and understandable than that graph.
    Drugs - NEVER.
    Tobacco - Please don't.
    Alcohol - Drink Responsibly.
    Medicines - Prescription from a valid doc required.
    Food - Don't forget that you have a stomach, a limited one. Fix an appointment with food. Don't make it a part of your life.
    Water - Drink when you are thirsty, make it a point that you finish off a 2.5 lit bottle every day, at least, but do have a check. Dont go above 3 lit.
    P.S.- This is my view. So, better ask your doc and take precautions.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    #-Link-Snipped-# : This isn't personal and not a display of strength. So 'cho_schweet' and 'don't be so week' are totally out of context and totally immature comments. Also, this is not an emotional debate. So stick to making points and stop aiming personal remarks, that's against the protocol of this site.

    aj_onduty
    Oh, you misinterpreted the meaning of "sealed". I apologize for that. I thought we were all referring to this discussion. Don't get so weak Biggie. You are now going down the limits, way down to the point that I felt for a moment that the last sentence is really lame to be spoken from someone of such a repute. Didn't expect that.At the back of my mind, I am feeling as if you are involuntarily mixing a feeling caused by something in your personal front, may be a loss of something due to any of these factors. Well, I do not want to get into that now.
    Wouldn't it be nice if you stop drawing conclusions?

    aj_onduty
    But yes, I didn't advocate other things you have mentioned. I was talking about alcohol. And, what I meant about sealing it shut was I feel that my words there are clearly defining what responsible drinking is. Anything to be added/modified/clarified can be talked upon.
    I didn't say 'you' were advocating the things. Your views on responsible drinking are welcome and open to debate.

    aj_onduty
    Also, there is a pattern in human behavior. Man can be addicted usually to only one or, at the most, two things at a time. If he doesn't get that one thing, you will look for alternatives. There are friends of mine who empty packets of cigarettes in one day, or chew boxes of tobacco(yes, only one of them most of the times). But if they get a chance of having an unlimited supply of alcohol, or cheap alcohol, they can quit chewing tobacco.
    ...and that should be acceptable because they aren't harming anyone including themselves. What are we coming at?

    aj_onduty
    The inference we need to draw is that because people indulge in any one of these pleasures, they avoid, or never opt for other sources of pleasures. They go for what is best available. But if you restrict even that, you are in for hell. If you do not turn a blind eye, alcohol is an antidote for a lot of social problems.
    I wonder what kind of problems can alcohol solve?

    aj_onduty
    But people do not look into those things. They are blinded by those movies which show villains do a lot more brutal acts during their drinking sessions. Most of the rape scenes have at least a bottle as a witness, and much more. But I would appeal people to wake up and look. You are not actually experiencing what a person who uses alcohol has in his/her mind. This is the reason why I told in a previous post that if you haven't had it, you shouldn't speak.
    Agreed. As I said, if you haven't committed suicide; you shouldn't talk about it being right or wrong.

    aj_onduty
    A graph was shown here, I would like to tell you something what I feel is more precise and understandable than that graph.
    Drugs - NEVER.
    Tobacco - Please don't.
    Alcohol - Drink Responsibly.
    Medicines - Prescription from a valid doc required.
    Food - Don't forget that you have a stomach, a limited one. Fix an appointment with food. Don't make it a part of your life.
    Water - Drink when you are thirsty, make it a point that you finish off a 2.5 lit bottle every day, at least, but do have a check. Dont go above 3 lit.
    P.S.- This is my view. So, better ask your doc and take precautions.
    Captain Obvious?

    Responsibly? I wished people understood their responsibilities. ๐Ÿ˜€
  • Saandeep Sreerambatla
    Saandeep Sreerambatla
    aj_onduty
    Dude, responsible drinking is something which should be left to the people who drink. Its their business. We do not need to open a debate section in an engineering forum in that, do we?
    Ok, how do we do that? we need a personal police for each person who drinks, and monitors how much he drinks, then we need to calculate his limits and then stop him from drinking more is it?

    if we are leaving for the persons who drink, then all these accidents etc donot happen , will they? So its impractical to have a police officer or a monitor for every person so we need to ban alcohol which is easy and which benefits society.

    why not build a smart secret application , which sends information for the service provider about our consumption and if its above the limits of what government has sent , give a call to police and put that person in jail?
  • Saandeep Sreerambatla
    Saandeep Sreerambatla
    Ok if there is something called responsible drinking, there will be responsible smoking, responsible hurting my wife, responsible beating kids, responsible corruption and responsible whatever!
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    English-Scared
    Ok if there is something called responsible drinking, there will be responsible smoking, responsible hurting my wife, responsible beating kids, responsible corruption and responsible whatever!
    'Responsible' looks like a hiding wall. I've often wondered why people who say yes to 'Responsible Drinking' say no to 'Responsible LSD consumption' ๐Ÿ˜’. Small dosage won't hurt; but let your experience euphoria. Quite a tradeoff.
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    Since this thread is about alcoholism, we can stay with that. Illegal or socially unaccepted abuses can be considered separately. 'Thou shalt drink only 60 ml alcohol in 24 hours' cannot be an enforceable law for reasons that you have enumerated.
    'Sale or consumption of alcohol in any form is prohibited except under specified conditions' can be a law. If it is violated that will be a crime to be dealt with accordingly.
    Virtually every substance has a toxicity level. Even sugar has such a limit. Likewise there are specifications for a maximum daily intake level for various substances, which is considered to be safe.
    The problem is that the so called social drinkers initially start at or below these safe limits. However, the addictive nature of the substance often leads to an upward spiral that leads to complications, both personal and social.
    The lesser of the two evils might well be a total ban on sale and consumption.Should this be done?
    That is the question.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    I had typed an elaborate post here, replying to the questions asked by biggie. But then, I thought that even though it may help in proving why I behaved so, it would not do any good to the debate. So, I think I will not write something as odd as that.

    But yes, I got to say something which I meant.
    If you ban alcohol all of a sudden, you will be in for a big surprise. Mafias will be formed, which will effectively make it sure that every needy person will get the required share of alcohol. But, you got to tactically move in this situation. By propagating the good points of responsible drinking, we can actually bring down the consumption of people. We can even prove that they can do well even if they don't drink. Slowly, in the long run, the habit will go away.

    Another way of removing the addiction is distraction. Well, we can always discuss on that to get to a consensus.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    English-Scared
    Ok if there is something called responsible drinking, there will be responsible smoking, responsible hurting my wife, responsible beating kids, responsible corruption and responsible whatever!
    Sorry for coming back. But my conscience would kill me if I do not answer this. The usage of the word 'responsible' is not intended to increase the consumption, it is intended to decrease it. And, responsible beating wife and children? Do people get addicted to that too? I never knew that.
    The 'responsible' drinking helps to curb the drinking behavior. If people drink a lot, inculcating the "responsible"drinking protocol will lessen their drinking habits. And, it will lead to the path of quitting drinking habit.
    Thanks for bearing with me.
  • Prashanth_p@cchi
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    aj_onduty
    Drugs - NEVER.
    Tobacco - Please don't.
    Alcohol - Drink Responsibly.
    Medicines - Prescription from a valid doc required.
    Food - Don't forget that you have a stomach, a limited one. Fix an appointment with food. Don't make it a part of your life.
    Water - Drink when you are thirsty, make it a point that you finish off a 2.5 lit bottle every day, at least, but do have a check. Dont go above 3 lit.
    Drugs - NEVER.----- Understandable.
    Tobacco - Please don't.------ Okay, i take "don't" as not required .
    Alcohol - Drink Responsibly.--------- Is it required??? If yes, Why??????
    Medicines - Prescription from a valid doc required. ------- Required to live.
    Food - Don't forget that you have a stomach, a limited one. Fix an appointment with food. Don't make it a part of your life.------- Required to live.
    Water - Drink when you are thirsty, make it a point that you finish off a 2.5 lit bottle every day, at least, but do have a check. Dont go above 3 lit.------- Required to live.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    We aren't deleting any posts, unless they are personal, make fun of others or show disrespect. Please avoid being personal or making fun of other members.
  • Pensu
    Pensu
    #-Link-Snipped-# dude, favoring drinking is a bigger problem than drinking itself. Atleast admit that alcohol abuse is a problem and once you start drinking you can never know your limits (I am sure if you drink, you will agree with this). After drinking either you will go to bed (as most of the students do) or you will do something wrong (as most of the adults do). There is no third way. And if responsible drinking is allowed why not responsible consumption of drugs and tobacco or responsible smoking be allowed? People get addicted to these things. And yeah ppl also get addicted to sex, so responsible rape should be allowed too. (Just saying for the sake of argument, I dont want any debate on this.) Anyways, we all know ppl are never going to stop drinking, but we can atleast talk about the cure of the problem rather than favoring it.
  • Mayur Pathak
    Mayur Pathak
    If we are talking about drinking, let us stick to it. Lets not compare drinking with domestic violence, drug abuse or even driving. They are different and must be treated differently.

    Banning liquor doesn't solve the purpose. It might help though. But I guess the whole debate about banning is being portrayed in the wrong light
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    #-Link-Snipped-# : Banning liquor solves the purpose. What doubts do you have about it?
  • Mayur Pathak
    Mayur Pathak
    I think lot of people are making generalized comments without knowing the whole issue. And a lot of generalized comments are personal.Not good at all.

    Drinking is a problem for many no doubt. But then there are responsible citizens who drink and be in the limits. Lets respect them. Instead of passing regressive comments and getting personal, let us instead debate on a way that can reduce, if not eradicate the problem of drinking
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    1. I already said it before, no personal comments would be allowed. Nothing that makes fun of others, or disrespects their point of view would be tolerated.

    2. We aren't talking about or showing disrespect towards those who drink.

    The main topic of this debate is about complete ban on alcohol (in the form of liquor and its related forms). Alcohol may still be 'required' to be a part of medicines - which are allowed to be consumed as per doctor's prescription.
  • Mayur Pathak
    Mayur Pathak
    The_Big_K
    #-Link-Snipped-# : Banning liquor solves the purpose. What doubts do you have about it?
    It is banned in Gujarat. But how has it helped it grow? We cant relate banning of liquor with growth of a state. Besides it has only led to liquor mafia in Daman and other neighboring areas.

    Awareness is more important that banning. Prostitution is illegal in India. But it hasn't helped curb trafficking. Giving of plastic bags is banned. But it hasn't provoked people to stop using it.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    I repeat my point: People don't understand what's right and what's wrong. If people knew what's right and what's wrong, there won't be prisons, traffic signals, robberies, corruption etc. That's why the law enforcement is essential. What you are suggesting is a gross failure of 'administration'.

    Banning alcohol in just one state is NOT the solution I'm proposing. I'm proposing a country-wide ban on it.

    ...and I'm not becoming a moral police in any way. If any of my post suggest that consuming alcohol is 'not moral', I'd challenge anyone to prove that consuming alcohol is morally right.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    Actually, I wanted to say that if a person uses the same, the person has to follow the following instructions.
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    Drugs - NEVER.----- Understandable.
    Tobacco - Please don't.------ Okay, i take "don't" as not required .
    Alcohol - Drink Responsibly.--------- Is it required??? If yes, Why??????
    If he drinks at all
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    Medicines - Prescription from a valid doc required. ------- Required to live.
    This was for people who don't depend on doc's prescription for medicines
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    Food - Don't forget that you have a stomach, a limited one. Fix an appointment with food. Don't make it a part of your life.------- Required to live.
    This is for people who overeat. I didn't say to stop eating, I just told to eat responsibly.(RESPONSIBLY)
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    Water - Drink when you are thirsty, make it a point that you finish off a 2.5 lit bottle every day, at least, but do have a check. Dont go above 3 lit.------- Required to live.
    This is for people who drink too much water. I didn't say to stop drinking water, I just told to drink responsibly.(RESPONSIBLY again)
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Anything done in 'excess' is bad, generally.

    aj_onduty
    This is for people who drink too much water. I didn't say to stop drinking water, I just told to drink responsibly.(RESPONSIBLY again)
    Things get funnier here. ๐Ÿ˜
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    aj_onduty
    But yes, I got to say something which I meant.
    If you ban alcohol all of a sudden, you will be in for a big surprise. Mafias will be formed, which will effectively make it sure that every needy person will get the required share of alcohol. But, you got to tactically move in this situation. By propagating the good points of responsible drinking, we can actually bring down the consumption of people. We can even prove that they can do well even if they don't drink. Slowly, in the long run, the habit will go away.
    Good to read that. Let's say we go about banning alcohol in a strategic, step-by-step way. Alcohol is not a 'need'.

    The trouble with above argument is that no one can describe 'responsible' drinking. Tell people not to drink and drive and there will always be people who will exactly do that. Tell people to stop at 1 peg and there will always be people who'll go for at least 5.

    PS: Would you recommend 'responsible drinking' as a part of curriculum in schools and colleges?
  • Smriti Jha
    Smriti Jha
    True, alcohol is not a need. It's a luxury. So what? Preposterous and extreme, the idea of banning it.
  • Anoop Mathew
    Anoop Mathew
    I've read everyone's post. And I think that most of us have overrated the term 'banning'. Let me share what I think:

    First of all Alcohol doesn't have to be banned because there would be a lot of issues such as the ones mentioned by aj_onduty and mayurpathak (nice points guys).

    But let me ask all of you a question? If alcohol is not in 'need' as Biggie said, then why do a lot of people drink? Is it just for fun? Certainly not!

    Alcohol is found to cause dizziness and lack of thought. It proves to help stop the brain from 'thinking' (atleast for a while). It smooths down depression, anxiety and tensions. These can happen do to a lot of stress scenarios faced by both old people and youngsters - to each in his/her own way.

    Not everyone on earth is perfect. And we have to accept that the people who do 'bad things' also have a heart. And sometimes their heart aches due to all the things that have cumulatively stacked up in their minds. Where and how will they get freedom from it? If you have to find a solution to limiting the intake of alcohol, you've to find a solution to solving depression. Not every person on earth would be willing to share his/her feeling with another; even to close friends! That's why they use alcohol, because even if it is for temporary relief, it does help.

    So what you can bring forth from this discussion would be a totally new way to treat such people. They are sick people if they are addicted - they need care, not sudden banning of what they think is life-saving-drug. What other GOOD ALTERNATIVE can be suggested instead of alcohol for the sake of depressed minds?

    It's not how long you live that matters, it's how happy and stress free you live that counts!
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    It smooths down depression, anxiety and tensions
    Unfortunately, it can aggravate all that and create depression.
    This report from the respected Royal College of Psychiatrists is one of the most authentic and revealing document. It also indicates that we (even when responsible) tend underestimate our consumption.
    #-Link-Snipped-#
  • Anoop Mathew
    Anoop Mathew
    bioramani
    Quote: It smooths down depression, anxiety and tensions. Unquote
    Unfortunately, it can aggravate all that and create depression.
    This report from the respected Royal College of Psychiatrists is one of the most authentic and revealing document. It also indicates that we (even when responsible) tend underestimate our consumption.
    #-Link-Snipped-#
    But I meant in case of people who already have depression. But like you said, there are cases which backfire and create more depression. There's no drug that is capable of curing depression completely other than death (or with time eventually) i fear. What do you think Sir? Can a 'safe' drug be created to duplicate the effect of alcohol, while it still keeps the person sane, alive and healthy?
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    There are many antidepressants. None are without side effects. I agree that depression can start one on alcohol. As you said, it numbs your senses and gives an apparent relief. The rebound once the euphoria wears off is worse than the initial problem. So one drinks more to remain submerged. End? Confirmed addiction.
    I do not think any one is going to come up with a wonder drug of the kind you mention, which is why the fear that alcohol will be the resort. The other worry is that a casual drinker may quickly become a confirmed alcoholic.
  • Anoop Mathew
    Anoop Mathew
    bioramani
    The other worry is that a casual drinker may quickly become a confirmed alcoholic.
    It all depends on the mindset of each person. And i fear that MOST people out there do not think before they act. I've seen adverse stages of alcoholic intakes and the diseases they lead to. I know what it takes to get drunk, be drunk, be forced to drink, etc. It's all part of the chaos installed by the world into our systems. We who were born intelligent have ruined ourselves into idiocrats! And once fallen, it's like there's no escape. A loop process!
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Yoga has incredible healing powers.
  • Saandeep Sreerambatla
    Saandeep Sreerambatla
    aj_onduty
    Sorry for coming back. But my conscience would kill me if I do not answer this. The usage of the word 'responsible' is not intended to increase the consumption, it is intended to decrease it. And, responsible beating wife and children? Do people get addicted to that too? I never knew that.
    The 'responsible' drinking helps to curb the drinking behavior. If people drink a lot, inculcating the "responsible"drinking protocol will lessen their drinking habits. And, it will lead to the path of quitting drinking habit.
    Thanks for bearing with me.

    Why not? I have seen many people who does responsible drinking, meaning the amount of alcohol which make them walk/crawl/drive to their home and shout at the people at home. and in the morning guys its of alcohol i am sorry ๐Ÿ˜›

    so all these effects are of drinking isn't it?
  • Saandeep Sreerambatla
    Saandeep Sreerambatla
    I used to drink alcohol and I know most of the things what people told here.
    Alcohol doesnt solve any problems and it doesnt solve any depression. I was into depression and alcohol will only help to spend that night sleeping. I decided 4 years ago that any day any situation which makes me sad I should not drink that day and try solve it or accept what happen rather than drinking and escaping.
    I think assume and wish that if alcohol is banned then people tend to solve their problems and go ahead.

    and, if people are crying over problems with depression because of love affair , financial etc etc . and cant get out of depression they can die. Its good for them and people around them and for country as well.
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    Hata Yoa (Yogic asanas) may not do much. The Pranic yoga with its mind and breath control has shown promise in controlling psychological disorders.
    S-VYASA, a UGC approved Yoga University in Bangalore is doing good work in this area.
    #-Link-Snipped-#
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Pranayaam helps #personalExperience
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    English-Scared
    I used to drink alcohol and I know most of the things what people told here.
    Alcohol doesnt solve any problems and it doesnt solve any depression. I was into depression and alcohol will only help to spend that night sleeping. I decided 4 years ago that any day any situation which makes me sad I should not drink that day and try solve it or accept what happen rather than drinking and escaping.
    I think assume and wish that if alcohol is banned then people tend to solve their problems and go ahead.

    and, if people are crying over problems with depression because of love affair , financial etc etc . and cant get out of depression they can die. Its good for them and people around them and for country as well.
    Nice to hear that you got out of that addiction. But you took time to realize that. Till that time, what was alcohol to you?
    Its good to know that there are people as mentally strong as #-Link-Snipped-# in CE, among us. But don't you think that not all are as strong as you are? Or at least, don't you think that it takes some time to understand the strength in the self? No one has a knowledge that there is such a strength in themselves till some kind of a demanding situation brings it out, or till they are shown that they have it by some one else.Without trying to move a boulder, how can you know what physical strength you have?

    The people opposing a total ban here are opposing an immediate ban, not a future ban. What they are meaning to say is that those addicted to/seek help of alcohol must be given time to get out of the addiction. They must be helped by friends rather than friends avoiding them. They must be helped by family members. They need help! But there are friends, who avoid their old friends just because they drink, no matter how a gem he/she is. Friends, usually girls or pampered(or too innocent) boys/men, think that drinking is a habit only for the evil, for the bad character, and avoid them. Now those are people who should be banned for being responsible for depression. Man is a social animal. He/she needs people around. So those people who are actually avoiding others, and if they are reading this, it is a request to them to kindly help solve their problems, rather than avoiding them, ignoring them, abusing them, swearing at them, throwing stones at them, spitting right on their faces, just because they drink. Well, if they misbehave, do use your own mind.They are not doing it totally in their will. So, hurt them back when they are under influence, but after that, explain to them how bad they were. Explain to them that they need to limit/quit it. Tell them that "Hey, Don't worry, we are here...".


    Now, about solving problems, let me ask you a question in another format. Suppose a person has a problem, and he cannot sleep well, he cannot do anything due to the depression. He knows the solution too. And probably the only solution is just waiting for some time. What must that guy do? Try to fight a losing battle of finding another solution? No. Try to have a few sleeping pills or other medicines? No. Suicide? No. Well, 1-2 pegs of alcohol can harmlessly turn the mind off for sometime so that you can sleep peacefully. What do you say?
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    With >1.2 Billion population, the problem in India is always in the present. For every person de-addicted many more start. Yes, alcohol is a quick fix. The trouble is that every single failure to cope up with the problem reinforces the negative. The bottle is to hand. 'Why worry, have curry' is the refrain. William James writing on Habit describes the issue. Also the remedy. That worked for me to get out of a hopeless nicotine addiction. However, it requires some inner resolve. I was helped by the addiction itself. It had gone so far out that there was no more perceived pleasure. When I gave up smoking cold turkey, there was no regret at all. Nor, I must confess, any elation. Just business as usual.
    The corporate group I work for runs a major de-addiction centre in Chennai. Most of the patients are alcohol addicts. Very few are smokers. Unfortunately this is not seen as an addiction by the family. The rest are into drugs, eraser fluid and such. I used to be associated with a social service organization, which I myself was involved in starting. One of our activities was to rescue kids addicted to petrol. It was heart breaking work. We would toil long with the help of the National Institute for Mental Health and Neuro Sciences. Just after being declared as free from addiction we would find the kids back at it again.
    We have to have a multi pronged attack. But, the thief is usually a couple of steps ahead of the police.

    Frustrating enough to make us reach for a bottle!
  • Saandeep Sreerambatla
    Saandeep Sreerambatla
    None in the above comments mentioned of banning the person who drink , we are planning only to ban something called the alcohol.

    There is a quote, we dont have time to repeat the mistakes others did, we have to learn from them.
    So it doesnt really make any sense, if everyone has to go through the addiction phase then leaving phase and saying they are strong.

    We need to discover that alcohol is something as a lazy excuse people make , instead of acting on the problem.

    and yes, those kind of people should also not be avoided from society but are they really worth living that life is my only question?
  • Dancer_Engineer
    Dancer_Engineer
    Wow! 105 Replies and 1082 Views! ๐Ÿ˜

    I have not read all the comments, but I have something to share.

    I was an addict, a chocolate addict. 3 years ago, every time I felt down / low / depressed I would rush to this grocery shop (30seconds walk from my hostel) and buy chocolates. I would eat 1 or 2 chocolates and would feel good / better, and I would eat it alone so that no one sees me and I don't have to share. One of my friends secretly observed me doing that.
    Qouting her,
    What you are doing is giving you temporary happiness! How long you think you can continue that way? Fighting the evil and acting in a mature way helps more and thus leads to stability and understanding. You eat a chocolate, you feel happy and you are done. So when will you learn the lessons of life if you keep postponing your own growth? Whatever happens to you, teaches you different aspects of life.
    I hated it when she used the term 'temporary happiness'. ๐Ÿ˜ก I was going over and over on what she told me, and I realized I was not doing the right thing by running away from depression. I would rather fight it and get done with it.

    Post that day, I don't remember having a chocolate to curb depression. ๐Ÿ˜€

    To put it in simple words, nothing beats 'self realization'. And as my mother puts it, if you have the 'will power', nothing is impossible.
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    Quote:To put it in simple words, nothing beats 'self realization'. And as my mother puts it, if you have the 'will power', nothing is impossible.Unquote
    It still does not explain how, if I could quit smoking one evening after having already smoked about 150 that day and I had the will power, where was this will power while the habit had undisputed sway over me for ten solid years?
    I do agree that whatever it is, has to come from within. Outside help may give a hand up. Bulk of the work is still the individual's.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    None in the above comments mentioned of banning the person who drink , we are planning only to ban something called the alcohol.
    [/quote]
    To beg your pardon, did anyone say anything about banning the person? Oh yes, I had explained the way people treat a person who has a drinking habit. Does your above comment has anything to do with it? If yes, please yet me know. Thank you.
    English-Scared
    There is a quote, we dont have time to repeat the mistakes others did, we have to learn from them.
    So it doesnt really make any sense, if everyone has to go through the addiction phase then leaving phase and saying they are strong.
    Again, the same case. I must stop being so forgetful in mentioning everything. I was talking about those who are already addicts. Sorry for not clearly mentioning that.

    English-Scared
    We need to discover that alcohol is something as a lazy excuse people make , instead of acting on the problem.
    Just like other drugs like sleeping pills, etc. At least people do not take impulsive decisions of suicide when they have alcohol. Alcohol can solve a few such problems, i feel.
  • Dancer_Engineer
    Dancer_Engineer
    bioramani
    It still does not explain how, if I could quit smoking one evening after having already smoked about 150 that day and I had the will power, where was this will power while the habit had undisputed sway over me for ten solid years?
    Sir, maybe you didn't believe in your will power at the time when you smoked 150 cigarettes. Maybe you were ignorant of the power you have in you to quit smoking. Maybe you didn't make that choice at all and gave more preference to smoking.
    But when you finally decided, "NO, no more smoking from now!", that is when you believed you can do it and you did it. ๐Ÿ˜€
  • Sahithi Pallavi
    Sahithi Pallavi
    #-Link-Snipped-# - They will quit it but they will restart it. They will quit it and again they will restart it. Does this mean that they don't have will power?

    PS : Government want the Income coming from Alcohol business, And they want the votes from drinkers. They won't ban it. Even though they ban it, people will go for belt shops or something. Once the change comes within people, Government don't have chance. But People won't change. There is no much difference between Educates and Uneducates these days. There is no Good and Bad these days.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    Sada
    #-Link-Snipped-# - They will quit it but they will restart it. They will quit it and again they will restart it. Does this mean that they don't have will power?
    Yes they do have the will power, but it gets weaker. In cases like these, people are willing to quit, but they fall for the temptation time and again. This is where friends are required. This is where an external support is required.
  • Prashanth_p@cchi
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    Sada
    #-Link-Snipped-# - They will quit it but they will restart it. They will quit it and again they will restart it. Does this mean that they don't have will power?
    Yes! If they surely mean QUIT, and then restart again.......
  • Prashanth_p@cchi
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    aj_onduty
    Yes they do have the will power, but it gets weaker. In cases like these, people are willing to quit, but they fall for the temptation time and again. This is where friends are required. This is where an external support is required.
    Aren't the above two sentences contradicting???? Or, Am I missing something that needs to be understood?
  • Prashanth_p@cchi
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    Well, i still find no perfect answer for "Why should one consume alcohol, be it limited or in excess?".

    However, the below quote by our friend Anoop seems a good answer but not a valid one(Acc to me atleast!).

    anoopthefriend
    Alcohol is found to cause dizziness and lack of thought. It proves to help stop the brain from 'thinking' (atleast for a while).
    But I seriously don't think that it will stop one from thinking of whatever they are disturbed with, or what they say as the reason for drinking......... In fact they may end up with finding a unusual and absurd solution, which in MOST cases end up creating a much bigger problem!!!!
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    Aren't the above two sentences contradicting???? Or, Am I missing something that needs to be understood?
    Actually, something is missing from the sentence.
    This is where friends are required. This is where an external support is required to reinforce the will power, and resist the temptation.
    I thought the underlined part of the sentence would have been understood as the same thing was discussed before.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    But I seriously don't think that it will stop one from thinking of whatever they are disturbed with, or what they say as the reason for drinking.........
    Believe me dear friend, it does. You just need to have the quantity enough to do that.
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    In fact they may end up with finding a unusual and absurd solution, which in MOST cases end up creating a much bigger problem!!!!
    I do not really know anyone who does serious brain storming sessions when they drink. Even if they do, well, they just wont use an output inferred under the influence of alcohol. Still, I do not really understand this statement. Hope you can clarify, elaborate or at least give some examples. Thanks in advance.
  • Dancer_Engineer
    Dancer_Engineer
    Sada
    #-Link-Snipped-# - They will quit it but they will restart it. They will quit it and again they will restart it. Does this mean that they don't have will power?
    Clearly, yes! Will power is not a use and throw tool. Quitting and getting addicted again is like cheating yourself. Actually more than will power, it is self realization which comes to the rescue. And if one values his / her realization, then one will surely be able to quit.
  • Prashanth_p@cchi
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    aj_onduty
    Believe me dear friend, it does.
    I strongly believe and have experienced. It does not stop one from thinking!!

    aj_onduty
    You just need to have the quantity enough to do that.
    You mean, get so drunk that you sleep or hang over????

    aj_onduty
    I do not really know anyone who does serious brain storming sessions when they drink. Even if they do, well, they just wont use an output inferred under the influence of alcohol.
    I agree that output inferred under the influence of alcohol will not be used(after you are okay). But I am talking about the output that is driven suddenly or when you are still under the influence of alcohol.
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    Dancer_Engineer
    I was an addict, a chocolate addict. 3 years ago, every time I felt down / low / depressed I would rush to this grocery shop (30seconds walk from my hostel) and buy chocolates. I would eat 1 or 2 chocolates and would feel good / better, and I would eat it alone so that no one sees me and I don't have to share. One of my friends secretly observed me doing that.
    You were probably wrong to quit that habit.
    Dark chocolate is good for you. It is also true that cocoa is a mood elevator. You can go back and eat 30 gms of dark chocolate per day without any guilt whatsoever.
    #-Link-Snipped-#

    More reasons to indulge:
    #-Link-Snipped-#
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    The topic's getting a little out of track, but those who want to quit any habit they want to may try being regular at Yoga. Just 20 minutes every day and you'll rediscover yourself. Might look like an exaggeration, but it just magically works. Try it out.
  • Dancer_Engineer
    Dancer_Engineer
    bioramani
    You were probably wrong to quit that habit.
    Dark chocolate is good for you. It is also true that cocoa is a mood elevator. You can go back and eat 30 gms of dark chocolate per day without any guilt whatsoever.
    #-Link-Snipped-#

    More reasons to indulge:
    #-Link-Snipped-#
    Sir, I do eat chocolate. Bournville, dark chocolate, is my favorite. ๐Ÿ˜€
    Quoting myself,
    Post that day, I don't remember having a chocolate to curb depression.
  • Anoop Mathew
    Anoop Mathew
    The_Big_K
    The topic's getting a little out of track, but those who want to quit any habit they want to may try being regular at Yoga. Just 20 minutes every day and you'll rediscover yourself. Might look like an exaggeration, but it just magically works. Try it out.
    Unfortunately, people these days have no time. While depressed, who would think about yoga? A quick fix is what most people think as solution. In India, we're all aware about 'temporary solutions' - be it roads, railways, government, etc, - for each and everything we always find temporary solutions and the rest of the money goes into the pockets of corrupt politicians and others involved.

    Likewise, the same goes with every other human being. I do not think that even 20% of the population would think about yoga during the time of depression. So what does the government do for that? Provide more alcohol! And that's why it creates a lot of revenue. Why else do you think people would buy so much? Are they all crazy to drink a bitter tasting drink that's unhealthy to their body? The only solution i fear is an alternative drink. Give them something like Pepsi or Red Bull with a stress busting ingredient and try selling it in the market - i'm sure you'd get profits.

    P.S.: Dear Friends, please read previous comments and analyse the topic before you reply. It'd keep this discussion in track.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Well, I agree. People want things quick. Headache and you pop-in a Crocin. I used to do that too. Now I keep my mind happy and there are no headaces anymore.
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    Even 8 minutes of mediation reduces depression. A quicker fix than that?
  • Anoop Mathew
    Anoop Mathew
    bioramani
    Even 8 minutes of mediation reduces depression. A quicker fix than that?
    Alcohol does faster than that...and it does it effortlessly. So a quicker than that fix is required!
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    1 ml thiopentone intravenously will knock one out in seconds. A pistol shot to the head is an irreversible option!
  • Anoop Mathew
    Anoop Mathew
    bioramani
    1 ml thiopentone intravenously will knock one out in seconds. A pistol shot to the head is an irreversible option!
    People often go for a 'temporary solution' not a permanent one. We live in India after all! (From my earlier comment)
  • Sahithi Pallavi
    Sahithi Pallavi
    anoopthefriend
    People often go for a 'temporary solution' not a permanent one. We live in India after all! (From my earlier comment)
    Yes temporary solution and a quick solution.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    I had replied to this one, but I think a server error may possibly be the reason for that reply not visible here. CE is having a noticeable lag.
    Prashanth_p@cchi
    I strongly believe and have experienced. It does not stop one from thinking!!
    There is some mistake somewhere again, either in my explaining or your understanding. Dear friend, the changes which happen to a person when he is thinking about a grave problem without alcohol is quite high and bad, compared to that time when he is under alcohol influence. Emotions overflow. People cry, they may not be able to stop themselves. Crying can relieve your tension. Or you may have the guts to share it with your friends. Either way, it is a tension buster.

    Prashanth_p@cchi
    You mean, get so drunk that you sleep or hang over????
    Hangover is something you must not achieve. Right quantities of drinks gives you a soothing effect due to which a person feels sleepy, in a more positive way than a hangover.


    Prashanth_p@cchi
    I agree that output inferred under the influence of alcohol will not be used(after you are okay). But I am talking about the output that is driven suddenly or when you are still under the influence of alcohol.
    I had explained about responsible drinking before in a post. Please do refer post number 70 for the answer of your above question.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    bioramani
    1 ml thiopentone intravenously will knock one out in seconds. A pistol shot to the head is an irreversible option!
    Life is dearer, dear sir.
    Those who indulge in any habit, be it chocolate eating or alcoholism, are those people brave enough to avoid a suicide, but a bit too weak to handle the situation.They indulge to have that reinforcement.
    It is said that "Sometimes the solution to a problem may not be going forward, sometimes, you need to slow down, relieve your body of the tension", not of the soul.
    Those who drink know that there is a solution. Those who drink are just buying time. Buying time and letting that gut instinct of suicide pass away with the time.
  • aarthivg
    aarthivg
    A huge replies to this thread, Great going๐Ÿ˜€

    Here, the discussion is all about eliminating liquor, how to get out of it. But yesterday Tamil Nadu government has extended the time for bar to be opened by 1 hour. If it is 5 Star hotel, there can be 24 hours service. ๐Ÿ˜”

    A person, Who himself think to get rid of alcohol, But I think the government wont leave him
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    The state of Gujarat is doing absolutely fine without any revenues from the sale of liquor. In fact they're progressing faster than other states. People may argue that the progress is just an illusion; but I'd trust my own relatives who've lived in Gujarat and praise the state more than anyone else.
  • Anoop Kumar
    Anoop Kumar
    People may argue that the progress is just an illusion
    There is no illusion...Few days ago, some of central cabinet minister inquired about it to defame state govt. but came back with nothing because this is truth that state is ahead of others. This news was just a glimpse on NDTV/AAJ tak (did't remember it) .I doubt anyone have seen this news.

    But yesterday Tamil Nadu government has extended the time for bar to be opened by 1 hour. If it is 5 Star hotel
    Is TN CM is also like UP CM (Akhilesh Yadav ) ๐Ÿ˜ฒ
  • Saandeep Sreerambatla
    Saandeep Sreerambatla
    This thread is good , interesting and really inspiring for me in my own way.

    I was in parties in last 2 days and I was sitting there drinking coke and lime water ๐Ÿ˜€

    All my friends are social drinkers or responsible drinkers, and we are making fun now of the fuss they created after drinking ๐Ÿ˜›
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    English-Scared
    This thread is good , interesting and really inspiring for me in my own way.

    I was in parties in last 2 days and I was sitting there drinking coke and lime water ๐Ÿ˜€

    All my friends are social drinkers or responsible drinkers, and we are making fun now of the fuss they created after drinking ๐Ÿ˜›
    Light hearted moments... A nice stress buster. ๐Ÿ˜‰
  • Prasad Ajinkya
    Prasad Ajinkya
    The_Big_K
    PS: My views are pretty extreme on the topic of alcohol consumption and smoking. People find them Jurassic and old-fashioned, unfortunately.
    My views are libertarian ... Drinking is a personal choice, which if done within limits does not harm anybody. There are people who die of drinking, families who get destroyed ... yes. ... but there are also people who die of car crashes .. and innocent bystanders who are killed ... does that mean that we will stop car production and from people driving cars? Perhaps not.

    The point is that in both these scenarios, the problem happens when the person in concern (the drinker or the driver) loses control. The loss in control is what needs to be stopped, instead of a blanket drive to stop drinking.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    #-Link-Snipped-# : I do understand the points being made in favor of social / responsible drinking. The car analogy isn't quite right here; because cars are the means for transport - a necessity in today's world. Yes, they do cause pollution and harm the environment. But if we stop them; the world will suffer right away. There are well defined laws on how to drive, what speed limits to follow, whether to drive on the right or left and so on and you also need a license. Now, save the administrative problems in enforcing the law - things are defined and if followed the risk of accidents would tend to approach zero.

    Alcohol isn't a necessity. If alcohol consumption is stopped - the world won't come to a halt. I'd not take argument that it 'takes away my worries and makes me forget and enjoy'. The fact remains that alcohol consumption may lead to loss of control over one's senses and there are no fixed rules; because there can't be.

    Someone even mentioned above that 'excess' of water is also dangerous. I know the facts. But does water doesn't make you lose senses if you drink two glasses or three glasses more and in fact; humans can't survive without water.

    My opinion on blanket ban on alcohol consumption is extreme because people don't have the sense to control their senses. It's very common to see the social / responsible drinkers crossing their limits to show their 'capacity'. What's not necessary and has tendency to cause damage should be banned; take Cigarettes for example.
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    Alcohol (and nicotine) are a few of the substances that can cross the blood brain barrier. At all doses it does interfere with brain function. The effects can appear contradictory depending on the level and habituation.
    Unfortunately, the initial low dose (applicable to responsible drinking) that gives an euphoria, if not watched out for, can quickly lead to craving for more euphoria and degenerate into irresponsible and later addictive drinking.
    For those interested this paper describes the interaction between brain and alcohol.
    PDF

    In the ultimate analysis a state like Singapore imposes apparently draconian laws to protect the society from itself. (Remember the case of the US boy flogged in public for spraying graffiti?)
    Likewise a ban on alcohol may prove a public benefit.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Yeah - they say 'Singapore is a fine city' ๐Ÿ˜‰ . We were asked to get rid of all the chewing and bubble gums before entering Singapore. No one questioned!

    I was thinking how do I make my point in minimum number of words and here's what I came up with:

    "Because people don't know where to draw lines" ๐Ÿ˜€
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    Aye, aye K!
  • Prasad Ajinkya
    Prasad Ajinkya
    The_Big_K
    #-Link-Snipped-# : I do understand the points being made in favor of social / responsible drinking. The car analogy isn't quite right here; because cars are the means for transport - a necessity in today's world.
    The point of the analogy was to bring out the fact that a common and necessary thing (which we agree upon) such as automobiles can also wreck havoc in the hands of the wrong person.

    When you are dealing with society, the laws that apply to society have to balance the "greater good" of the community v/s rights of the individual.

    When a rule such as a blanket ban on alcohol is put in place, the rights of the individual are severely hampered. This is the inflection point of crime.

    Gujurat is supposedly a dry state ... however, there are ways to work around this rule. My experiences in Gujurat have shown that there are a spurt of local brands which are kept behind closed doors (Lal Ghoda, Kala Ghoda, Vajir ... these are brands of the local whiskeys available) and don't get me started about the parties at IIM-A ๐Ÿ˜€

    Alcohol is not a necessity, but it is currently the individual's right. Do not curtail this, it only serves as a path to increase corruption and crime.
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    My life is mine. I can say that I am within my rights if I decide to end it. Yet attempted suicide is a crime. It is the one crime where the criminal goes scot free if he/she succeeds in the crime. Is this not curtailing of human right?
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    The_Big_K
    Alcohol is not a 'need'.
    Well it is though, for a desperate few...
    The_Big_K
    The trouble with above argument is that no one can describe 'responsible' drinking.
    I hope I had described it somewhere in this thread.
    The_Big_K
    Tell people not to drink and drive and there will always be people who will exactly do that. Tell people to stop at 1 peg and there will always be people who'll go for at least 5.
    If you have a set of laws, you will surely have a set of people breaking it. Does that mean that the law is disproved? Someone has said, "Laws are meant to be broken; and the people who do, well, their bones are to be broken!"
    No one is going to force anyone to stop at one peg. We will allow them todrink more, but only after letting you know what hell you will break loose when u do that thing. May be it won't work for the first time, not for second time too. But the essence of the whole thing is to be at it, be consistently acting upon it.
    Alcoholism is the big fat rock in the path of the waterfall. Water takes its own time. And finally, its water that wins the war.
    The_Big_K
    PS: Would you recommend 'responsible drinking' as a part of curriculum in schools and colleges?
    Not exactly, but may be in bars, or at some public places where people socialize through the medium known to us as alcohol.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    #-Link-Snipped-# : How about getting your facts right about what's a 'need' ?

    The rest of your argument (about law) seem to be supporting the points I made above. ๐Ÿ˜€
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    The_Big_K
    #-Link-Snipped-# : How about getting your facts right about what's a 'need' ?

    I would be very happy to do that... This is what I got from Google.
    need/nร„“d/

    Verb:
    Require (something) because it is essential or very important: "I need help now".

    Noun:
    Circumstances in which something is necessary, or that require some course of action; necessity: "the need for food".

    Synonyms:
    verb. want - require - demand - lack
    noun. want - necessity - requirement - poverty - lack

    Now lets get serious. Suppose you are an alcohol addict. If you are, you need alcohol to suffice your requirements. So, I think alcohol is a need for the people who are addicted to it, just like phones, videogames, apps etc.
    The_Big_K
    The rest of your argument (about law) seem to be supporting the points I made above. ๐Ÿ˜€
    Dear friend of mine, I was saying this thing all the time. It is somehow not dawning upon us that we are standing on the same side of the river. This is the exact reason I told that this must NOT be an debate. Here we are not arguing about opposite views. All of us want to remove alcohol from the society, but no extreme step can help. It will only worsen the situation. It will only lead to the making of more Kala Ghodas, Safed Ghodas, Hara Ghodas and other Ghodas in the colour spectrum in different cities, villages, etc. And you can have the Ghodas in your favorite colours, if you ban alcohol right away.
    To put it in a very short way,
    "Remove alcohol from the minds first, then remove it from the shelves."
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Oh boy! โ˜•

    Wiki: Need :

    A need is something that is necessary for organisms to live a healthy life. Needs are distinguished from wants because a deficiency would cause a clear negative outcome, such as dysfunction or death. Needs can be objective and physical, such as food, or they can be subjective and psychological, such as the need for self-esteem. On a social level, needs are sometimes controversial. Understanding needs and wants is an issue in the fields of politics, social science, and philosophy.
    Quite interesting, isn't it? 'Alcohol' is a need of an alcoholic because if not consumed; it'd cause death.

    Similarly, Alcohol is a 'need' for a social drinker because if he/she can't cope up with friends; he'll die of excessive inferiority complex.

    Similarly, drugs are a need of a drug-addict because if not given, he/she will die.

    -----Back On Track-----
    aj_onduty
    All of us want to remove alcohol from the society, but no extreme step can help. It will only worsen the situation.
    You agree that we all want alcohol to be removed from the society. That's exactly what I've been arguing about throughout my posts in this debate. I call for a complete ban on alcohol (except for the medical use, under strict administration of the doctors) because an alcoholic won't die because of lack of alcohol. That's common sense and I'm 100% sure that modern medical sciences will agree with me.

    What's a pure 'administration' issue can't be accepted as a 'social issue'. In Dubai, the administration is so powerful that people just don't steal! Of course; you can quote an incident or two that show failure of administration; but we're talking about majority here.

    Looks like we've arrived at a conclusion that alcohol should be banned from the society and it won't affect the society in negative way. ๐Ÿ˜€
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    The_Big_K
    'Alcohol' is a need of an alcoholic because if not consumed; it'd cause death.

    Similarly, Alcohol is a 'need' for a social drinker because if he/she can't cope up with friends; he'll die of excessive inferiority complex.

    Similarly, drugs are a need of a drug-addict because if not given, he/she will die.
    Death. Ok then, that means penicillin is not a need. Because, if you do not have penicillin, you may just lose a leg or hand, you will not die. Amputation is such a nice option. Nice find biggie. Thanks.



    The_Big_K
    You agree that we all want alcohol to be removed from the society. That's exactly what I've been arguing about throughout my posts in this debate. I call for a complete ban on alcohol (except for the medical use, under strict administration of the doctors) because an alcoholic won't die because of lack of alcohol. That's common sense and I'm 100% sure that modern medical sciences will agree with me.

    What's a pure 'administration' issue can't be accepted as a 'social issue'. In Dubai, the administration is so powerful that people just don't steal! Of course; you can quote an incident or two that show failure of administration; but we're talking about majority here.

    Looks like we've arrived at a conclusion that alcohol should be banned from the society and it won't affect the society in negative way. ๐Ÿ˜€
    To be straight forward biggie, at least take pains to READ what I am trying to say there. You will get a bunch of maniacs running helter skelter, destroying whatever comes in their path if they do not get what they require. Read that last sentence again. Please.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    Oh, and talking about Dubai. They have a flawless law and order system. Their Imprisonment to Life holds to its literal meaning. The punishment for stealing is severing hands. For Murder, it is cutting your head off. For what you do, they cut the part with which you did that. So, ban alcohol, and copy the Dubai law and order execution mechanism. One who drinks should have their hands severed, right? Or should their throat be cut? Being inhuman would be a better option than alcohol, it seems. Wow, what a perfect world it will be, severed hands everywhere.
  • Anoop Mathew
    Anoop Mathew
    aj_onduty
    Oh, and talking about Dubai. They have a flawless law and order system. Their Imprisonment to Life holds to its literal meaning. The punishment for stealing is severing hands. For Murder, it is cutting your head off. For what you do, they cut the part with which you did that. So, ban alcohol, and copy the Dubai law and order execution mechanism. One who drinks should have their hands severed, right? Or should their throat be cut? Being inhuman would be a better option than alcohol, it seems. Wow, what a perfect world it will be, severed hands everywhere.
    Dubai has however had the worst car accident ever. Inspite of those rules, the people living didn't use their brains to avoid accident. It was a complete foggy situation and they were driving at 120kmph speeds using the yellow indicators. More than 200 cars piled up. So whatever rules you enforce, you cannot expect people to just follow them.



    The same goes with alcohol. A gradual rule change could work - but not with the present generation of drinkers! If we could somehow manage to leave all our kids in a different environment, then maybe there is a chance to recreate a better species of humans. It's not genetics that you need to develop humans, it's just a better social environment. But to the already addicted drinkers and people who feel the need to drink, it'd be really difficult. People don't just give up!

    Singapore is however an exception! They are really great people with great thoughts! People in India don't think much, they just act. And if some rule is made to hinder them, they'd revolt!
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    aj_onduty
    Wow, what a perfect world it will be, severed hands everywhere.
    A Jaipur foot equivalent of both left and right hands will be free issue in clandestine bars, within a week.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    Why talk of extremes? I used Dubai only as an example. You agreed that we want to end alcohol from the society and strict ban is only the way to go. Else we'll continue to have the cases of social drinkers 'sometimes' losing control over themselves and killing innocent people on the roads.

    Whether to go 'sudden ban' or 'step by step' is totally an administration related issue. The point is - alcohol needs to be banned! I think we agree here, don't we? ๐Ÿ˜€
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    The_Big_K
    Why talk of extremes? I used Dubai only as an example.
    That is the reason someone over there talked about extremes. The answer to your question lies in the words you just said. You used Dubai as a "strong" example to support the point you presented.
    The_Big_K
    You agreed that we want to end alcohol from the society and strict ban is only the way to go. Else we'll continue to have the cases of social drinkers 'sometimes' losing control over themselves and killing innocent people on the roads.
    You had said that you are a bit extreme on the ban. You want a total ban, one step, complete shut down. That is a bit too extreme, too hot to handle.
    The_Big_K
    Whether to go 'sudden ban' or 'step by step' is totally an administration related issue. The point is - alcohol needs to be banned! I think we agree here, don't we? ๐Ÿ˜€
    Points not being understood by people. What to say!
    Repetitions, repetitions... What else are people over here talking about? These people here are talking about their views on the step by step solution. They are just saying that it is a good solution. We do not need to argue like kids about sudden ban or step by step ban. Any man with enough common sense and a sense of humanity will understand that sudden ban will have more bad effects than good.
    Just as I told before,"The ideal point is neither in the good side, nor in the bad side. never in the extremes. It is somewhere between."
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    anoopthefriend
    Dubai has however had the worst car accident ever. Inspite of those rules, the people living didn't use their brains to avoid accident. It was a complete foggy situation and they were driving at 120kmph speeds using the yellow indicators. More than 200 cars piled up. So whatever rules you enforce, you cannot expect people to just follow them.

    Fact:The Arab world is home to great stunt drivers, most being school kids.
    anoopthefriend
    The same goes with alcohol. A gradual rule change could work - but not with the present generation of drinkers! If we could somehow manage to leave all our kids in a different environment, then maybe there is a chance to recreate a better species of humans. It's not genetics that you need to develop humans, it's just a better social environment. But to the already addicted drinkers and people who feel the need to drink, it'd be really difficult. People don't just give up!
    I am a bit optimistic in this regard, or must as I said, I am not skeptical enough to agree with this statement.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    #-Link-Snipped-# : Suggest ways to ban alcohol from society. Looks like you agree with me on this point ๐Ÿ˜€
  • Anoop Mathew
    Anoop Mathew
    aj_onduty
    Fact:The Arab world is home to great stunt drivers, most being school kids.
    I'm aware of that fact really well. And they are real selfish and proud people too. I've lived my whole life in Kuwait.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    The_Big_K
    #-Link-Snipped-# : Suggest ways to ban alcohol from society. Looks like you agree with me on this point ๐Ÿ˜€
    To be frank, I am not at all agreeing with your view of banning alcohol blindly. And, I have also mentioned the solution to the problem in almost all posts. Well, not exactly what to do, but at least the way to reach the goal.
    "Remove alcohol from the minds first, then try removing from the shelves."
    Suppose a small boy has a rotten tooth. You cannot remove it without harming the boy, or holding/tying his hands. So, you need to convince the boy that keeping the rotten tooth would prove fatal. The boy, thinking about the excruciating pain, would be saying a big no, and would protest in all the ways possible. We have to convince him that we will use anesthesia. Then, he would complain about the pain of the injection, he would protest. Then we must convince him that we will use an ointment/spray which will act as an anesthesia, thus there will be no pain. At last, the boy, relieved by all tensions of pain, can happily give permission to the dentist to remove his rotten tooth.
    This analogy applies to almost all the things related to loss in human psychology. Loss of something which can cause pain (Physical or mental).
    Here, holding or tying hands, or hurting of the boy represents blind banning of alcohol, which our dear Biggie is suggesting. Why do you need to hurt if there is a better solution?
    Dear friend, we need anesthesia first. This discussion should go in that direction. And, if you ask me a possible anesthetic, well, I believe in teamwork. Lets discuss.
  • Ankita Katdare
    Ankita Katdare
    I love where this discussion is headed. From complete disagreement to banning alcohol, now most people have started nodding to take 'small steps' towards it. ๐Ÿ‘ This is success.
    I think #-Link-Snipped-# never suggested blind banning of alcohol. The ways have to be figured out and implemented at mass levels.
    Does 'anesthesia' in the example above mean we get thousands of people to 'alcohol rehabilitation centres' or convince them through discussions (and such debates) and ultimately when we have lesser percentage of people addicted to alcohol (say less than 20% to what is the situation in India is today), then we can ban it completely.
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    The trouble is that alcohol is itself the anaesthetic being used by the 'addict' to forget the 'pain' of whatever slings and arrows of fortune life is throwing at him/her. Psycotherapy or counselling are options, which are more useful for weaning from alcohol than preventing the start.

    I thought that it would be better to get some numbers first.
    I could dig out statistics from NHS UK on this issue. This is a definitive report:
    #-Link-Snipped-#
    Here is a countrywide data on alcohol consumption in which India does not figure at all (for whatever reason):
    #-Link-Snipped-#

    Not much correlated data is available from India.
    This one from Indian Alcohol Policy Alliance is disquieting:
    #-Link-Snipped-#
    This report is from a de-addiction centre run by the corporate group I work for is revealing:
    #-Link-Snipped-#

    This report published in the respected medical journal 'The Lancet' bodes ill to the country:
    #-Link-Snipped-#

    As a closing item, this report from the All India Institute of Medical Sciences shows a distubing trend in the cultural changes seen in drinking pattern and possible adverse health and economic consequences:
    #-Link-Snipped-#

    I see the problem. Unfortunately the solution is elusive. Nor will it be simple.
  • Saandeep Sreerambatla
    Saandeep Sreerambatla
    It very funny to read that blind banning Vs anesthesia.

    There is a difference in the example itself, if its a kid and is worrying about pain in removing the tooth its ok to convince him to give anesthesia. But if its an adult then he would know the side effects of rotten tooth and even alcohol.
    You cannot remove anything from mind before removing it from the shelves.
  • Saandeep Sreerambatla
    Saandeep Sreerambatla
    People are so weak, many people they just cant have the strength to throw the bottle away from the shelf or stop drinking while attending a party with friends. Majority of my friends who say they quit finally end up drinking once we start a party. so if we ban alcohol then there will be no worries and no issues. There are better things in life to do than drinking and forgetting the past or problems.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    Never try to attack blindly on a view, please. Understand what I am trying to say. By saying anesthetic, I am not talking about a pain reliever. I am talking about an agony reliever. Alcohol is something, which if you feel is against you, that torments you a bit. An "anesthesia" is just a representation. Also, #-Link-Snipped-#, Biggie WAS advocating blind ban. He had SPECIFICALLY said that he is very extreme with regards to the ban. Also,
    Also, #-Link-Snipped-#, we are talking about the same thing. Do read again. We must first create the need to quit in that person first. Then give him the "Anesthesia" to relieve him from the "agony" he will be facing when he starts to quit.
  • Saandeep Sreerambatla
    Saandeep Sreerambatla
    Who said that alcohol relieves a person from agony? I think anesthesia is proved that it relieves a person from agony.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    English-Scared
    Who said that alcohol relieves a person from agony? I think anesthesia is proved that it relieves a person from agony.
    Dear friend, please be enlightened that I just meant to use an analogy.The effect of what a support to the human mind who wants to quit alcoholism, that psychological reinforcement has an analogy to the behaviour of anesthesia on a body part. I was just using a metaphor. Hope you understood the same. I am not talking about replacing alcohol with anesthesia.
    And yes, as to what you said, Does Anesthesia really relieve a person from agony? Does it cure diseases? Does it put back a severed hand of a person? No, just like alcohol. I do not want to take the whole discussion into that same argument as to what alcohol is, what its effects are, but let me get this straight. Dear friend, just as anesthesia temporarily shuts down the sensation of a body part, alcohol shuts down the brain for sometime. I think you understand this, but this was just for your knowledge. I do not want anyone to pick up this topic for a discussion, I fear that the discussion will lose its track to a possible solution and will go again to that worthless struggle we had here.
    Alcohol and anesthesia just relieves the pain. When the effect of the same dies down with time, the pain comes back, if not solved by then. Do understand this, please.
  • Kaustubh Katdare
    Kaustubh Katdare
    I advocate: 'Blanket Ban'. Complete ban on alcohol except for in medicines that are administered by the doctors. Not sure what 'Blind Ban' means. If it refers to what I wrote above, then yes.

    I think it's already been agreed that alcohol needs to be banned from the society and whether to ban it in 'one step' or 'gradually' could be another debate. I personally would advocate 'one step' ban on alcohol and 100% sure that it won't cause deaths or anything the society should fear.

    Not much to to share because most of the anti-ban advocators have agreed. But those who want to continue adding points may do so. The thread is open.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    The_Big_K
    I advocate: 'Blanket Ban'. Complete ban on alcohol except for in medicines that are administered by the doctors. Not sure what 'Blind Ban' means. If it refers to what I wrote above, then yes.

    I think it's already been agreed that alcohol needs to be banned from the society and whether to ban it in 'one step' or 'gradually' could be another debate. I personally would advocate 'one step' ban on alcohol and 100% sure that it won't cause deaths or anything the society should fear.

    Not much to to share because most of the anti-ban advocators have agreed. But those who want to continue adding points may do so. The thread is open.
    Blanket ban is a blind ban(I call it that way) because blanket ban never takes into consideration human feelings/emotions/cravings associated with the substance which is being banned. It is blind because it doesn't sense all the things which have to be sensed and taken into consideration.
    It won't cause direct deaths, may be. But it can cause indirect ones, can't they? Now don't tell me to explain that, I think I am talking to people who have the common sense to understand that. ๐Ÿ˜‰
    Who are these anti ban people??? Are they here? Yes, there are anti-blanket ban people around here.
    And, wait a minute... Not much to share? This thread is being meaningful now, and you have not much to share? This is where you have to share those steps to use to remove alcohol from the society.
  • Saandeep Sreerambatla
    Saandeep Sreerambatla
    Deaths due to lack of alcohol , come on!
    They must use some medicines to overcome it , and deaths due do lack of food is heard lack of alcohol ?
  • Anoop Mathew
    Anoop Mathew
    Here I see that the discussion has come to a point where a majority of people favoring alcohol ban, while #-Link-Snipped-# is trying his best to find a solution that does not affect drinkers suddenly...

    Here is a situation that I want you all to analyse. Take it as a case study and since it is from my personal experience, I can advocate to an extend.

    My dad's cousin (lets call him Raghu for my sake!) is a chronic drinker. His dad was a chronic smoker and drinker who died of cancer after many medications. Raghu has seen his dad suffering and knows all the extend to which drinking and smoking can lead to. He is unfortunately not willing to stop drinking. Being his elder cousin, my dad decided to take him to a well known De-addiction center in Kottayam, Kerala, India. So, last year, my dad took me, Raghu and Raghu's mother to the de-addiction center to enroll him into a month of strict lifestyle, meditation, yoga and prayer. The strictness is reflected very well as we were not allowed to get out of there until the Patron gave his permission that we(me and my dad) were just visitors and not their patients! So for the next one month or so, my dear uncle Raghu was recovering! We thought he'd be fine and easily return to his normal life. After a month, the Patron was satisfied and he congratulated Raghu for his mind change. Raghu came back to his home and returned to his normal life as a refrigerator technician. After 60 days of alcohol freedom, on the 61st day, he restarted his noble venture of drinking with avid enthusiasm. Now he is an even better drinker than before! He does not go to work as a technician anymore, but rather chose an easier job as a Mason (Mason's get paid about Rs500 daily in Kerala), and drinks with that amount!!! Just yesterday, he came by my house and was on 4 legs. My grandma kicked him out. Pathetic! What can be done to such a person? What is the use of banning alcohol when he is already aware of other local means to make cheap alcohol? There were a lot of similar people in my locality. They just keep drinking until they die. Unfortunately for Raghu, his days are numbered I fear!!!!!!
  • Ramani Aswath
    Ramani Aswath
    Giving up a habit 'cold turkey', that is, impose on yourself a total, unconditional, 'no relapse permitted' ban is the only proven method for kicking a habit for sure.
    I can personally vouch for that. However, the addict has to do it. How he/she can be motivated or helped to do it is a debatable question.
    There was a curious situation in England. UK imposed a compulsory fasten seat belt rule for cars made after 1980. Cars of older vintage that did not have seat belts as original issue were exempt. The traffic police had a yard stick on how to handle perceived violation.
    May be a similar total ban on fresh drinkers, while weaning the other habitual drinkers gradually may work.
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    anoopthefriend
    Here I see that the discussion has come to a point where a majority of people favoring alcohol ban, while #-Link-Snipped-# is trying his best to find a solution that does not affect drinkers suddenly...
    Pardon me, but you missed a small part there, a solution should be found which will remove alcohol without directly affecting the addicts/drinkers.

    anoopthefriend
    Here is a situation that I want you all to analyse. Take it as a case study and since it is from my personal experience, I can advocate to an extend.

    My dad's cousin (lets call him Raghu for my sake!) is a chronic drinker. His dad was a chronic smoker and drinker who died of cancer after many medications. Raghu has seen his dad suffering and knows all the extend to which drinking and smoking can lead to. He is unfortunately not willing to stop drinking. Being his elder cousin, my dad decided to take him to a well known De-addiction center in Kottayam, Kerala, India. So, last year, my dad took me, Raghu and Raghu's mother to the de-addiction center to enroll him into a month of strict lifestyle, meditation, yoga and prayer. The strictness is reflected very well as we were not allowed to get out of there until the Patron gave his permission that we(me and my dad) were just visitors and not their patients! So for the next one month or so, my dear uncle Raghu was recovering! We thought he'd be fine and easily return to his normal life. After a month, the Patron was satisfied and he congratulated Raghu for his mind change. Raghu came back to his home and returned to his normal life as a refrigerator technician. After 60 days of alcohol freedom, on the 61st day, he restarted his noble venture of drinking with avid enthusiasm. Now he is an even better drinker than before! He does not go to work as a technician anymore, but rather chose an easier job as a Mason (Mason's get paid about Rs500 daily in Kerala), and drinks with that amount!!! Just yesterday, he came by my house and was on 4 legs. My grandma kicked him out. Pathetic! What can be done to such a person? What is the use of banning alcohol when he is already aware of other local means to make cheap alcohol? There were a lot of similar people in my locality. They just keep drinking until they die. Unfortunately for Raghu, his days are numbered I fear!!!!!!
    I would name the quoted paragraph set above as "Case Study 1: The Consequences of a Blanket Ban of Alcohol."

    I will give you another example (Actually, there are a lot, but I think only one will suffice here).
    A man in my native place, started drinking at a very early age, and was reputed for the activities he used to do after getting drunk. It is said that he used to get drunk just to do those things. He was a very polite man when he was not drunk, but the opposite when he drinks, just like Jekyll and Hyde. He even mustered some "back-up" from some local political parties for his inhuman attitude after getting drunk. His mother, a good soul, used to complain about him to my father, who directed her to a priest. The priest, on the other hand, told her to go to a temple, where they "cure" alcoholism. The priest of that temple, after letting him go through a lot of ceremonies, gave him something to drink. The moment he finished drinking, he was told to start running around the temple, which he did. He stopped in the middle, to vomit. He vomited a lot more than any human can possibly do (her mother said that),and at last, he fell down on the ground. He was carried to a shade, and given some tender coconut water, after which, he stood up. He didnt drink alcohol for 6 months in a row, he didn't even think of it. It was as if alcohol was CTRL+SHIFT+DEL ed from his mind. He was a changed man. Impressed by this, my father put him in a job in the company where he works, in Dubai. After some 3-4 months, one night, my dad woke up, hearing a commotion. He went downstairs in the ground floor of their building where our "non drinker" was living in. A few others were already there, seeing a man on the balcony acting paranoid, like a dreaded beast, gnashing his teeth and forcibly trying to uproot the railing off his balcony. He was drunk, and this time, he was more violent, almost mad. He finished one full bottle of rum. From that day, till now, he has been drinking, with renewed vigour and capacity higher than all time high. His wife divorced him, and he is all alone now.
    Now, you may be wondering where he would have had alcohol from, in Dubai! Alcohol is banned in Dubai, isn't it? Well, the rules are strict there, aren't they? Then how???
  • aj_onduty
    aj_onduty
    English-Scared
    Deaths due to lack of alcohol , come on!
    They must use some medicines to overcome it , and deaths due do lack of food is heard lack of alcohol ?
    ๐Ÿ˜ฒ So there are a few exceptions, indeed!๐Ÿ˜ณ I told you, not direct deaths.
  • prashpan
    prashpan
    liquor in Gujarat
    #-Link-Snipped-#

    A rather old article
    Prohibition - Gujarat's worst kept secret - Lok Sabha Election news - Rediff.com
  • Anoop Mathew
    Anoop Mathew
    aj_onduty
    Pardon me, but you missed a small part there, a solution should be found which will remove alcohol without directly affecting the addicts/drinkers.
    Well my friend, if you re-read my sentence, you'll get to know that it is EXACTLY what I meant. ๐Ÿ˜€

    Now, you may be wondering where he would have had alcohol from, in Dubai! Alcohol is banned in Dubai, isn't it? Well, the rules are strict there, aren't they? Then how???
    No, you are mistaken. Dubai has started developing into a tourist place, so they have provided licenses for alcohol drinking. However, drinking without a license is not allowed. Check this link to know more Alcohol License Dubai
    I've studied till my Class XIIth in Kuwait and over there alcohol is banned. But there are a lot of black market sellers out there too.

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