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Alienator
Alienator • Feb 26, 2012

Perpetual motion

Guyz...lezz discuss about making a perpetual machine.....
is there any chances of making one??
I suggest that you first spend time disproving the first and the second law of thermodynamics. Once this is done, you will have some success with the other.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Feb 27, 2012
Hmm, PPMs is always an interesting topic. A satellite in the space is in perpetual state of motion. 😨
The_Big_K
Hmm, PPMs is always an interesting topic. A satellite in the space is in perpetual state of motion. 😨
With a difference. The craft is actually continuously falling to the earth. However the tangential velocity imparted at the time the satellite was deployed ensures that it is at the same distance from the earth. The momoent we try to tap the energy (even as a thought experiment) this tangential velocity will decrease anxd the satellite wil re-enter and burn.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Feb 27, 2012
Agreed. But it's in the perpetual state of motion, just like Earth & Moon. That leads me to thinking, is an object moving in space with practically no friction or resistance - in a perpetual state of motion?
saptm
saptm • Feb 27, 2012
There are lot of PPMs already exists but PPM1 and PPM2 are the very good perpetual machines and easy to understand.First try to go through these machines and the try to make any of the perpetual machine.Better try to make machine based on carnot cycle or reversed carnot cycle.
The_Big_K
Agreed. But it's in the perpetual state of motion, just like Earth & Moon. That leads me to thinking, is an object moving in space with practically no friction or resistance - in a perpetual state of motion?
Newton's first law describes this. In essence it is a question of staus quo ante. An object continues doing whatever it is doing unless accted upon by a force that makes it alter its status.
Einstein's concept of frames of reference also says this. If we consider a geo centric universe. the earth is stationary. If Heliocentric, then the sun is stationary and so on.
Yes, the satellite is in perpetual motion, but only as long as we do not try to get some energy out of that motion.
Alienator
Alienator • Feb 28, 2012
so..the fact is....we can somehow manage creating one....but never can draw energy out of it!!
CE Designer
CE Designer • Feb 28, 2012
Alienator
so..the fact is....we can somehow manage creating one....but never can draw energy out of it!!
That sounds just about right but i have a question. Bullet Trains! They use electro magnets right? They turn on the current, like poles repel and raise the train off its tracks and an initial velocity is applied to the train.
Lets say we use permanent magnets instead of electro-magnets so that we don't need current and like a satellite we apply an initial velocity. Is there anything that will stop the train?
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Feb 28, 2012
CE Designer That's a nice thought; but how do you plan to accelerate the train in first place and keep it going?
ISHAN TOPRE
ISHAN TOPRE • Feb 28, 2012
PPM in my thinking to some degree is an hypothetical concept. For making a bullet train as PPM, you will need to eliminate friction. But if you eliminate friction, how it will move ahead?
CE Designer
That sounds just about right but i have a question. Bullet Trains! They use electro magnets right? They turn on the current, like poles repel and raise the train off its tracks and an initial velocity is applied to the train.
That is not all of it. The maglev part only reduces the friction loss. There is still the air resistance to be overcome. Also an inertial mass is always in a state of uniform motion along a straight line. A permanently levitating object cannot deviate unless energy is spent in changing direction.
Also Big K's point :That's a nice thought; but how do you plan to accelerate the train in first place and keep it going?- is very valid. To get any use out of the system the energy to bring the mass upto speed and later bringing it to a stop has to be provided.

I am afraid that there is no free lunch not withstanding Sonia Gandhi's food security bill.
Issue
PPM in my thinking to some degree is an hypothetical concept. For making a bullet train as PPM, you will need to eliminate friction. But if you eliminate friction, how it will move ahead?
Using linear motor principle.
Here is an example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linimo
saptm
saptm • Feb 29, 2012
That is the major problems with PPMs.,we have to give energy in the stated and we don't no how to do that.@CE Designer tell me one thing,if we use permanent magnet instead of electro one then wouldn't it makes the tracks and lower portion of the train,permanent magnet?
saptm
CE Designer tell me one thing,if we use permanent magnet instead of electro one then wouldn't it makes the tracks and lower portion of the train,permanent magnet?
Magnet is a magnet whether electro or permanent. The effect on the neighbourhood is independent of how the field is generated. However, electromagnets are very much lighter than permanent ones and can be controlled by the current. If high temperature super conductors are developed some day, we will see major advances in electromagnets.
ISHAN TOPRE
ISHAN TOPRE • Feb 29, 2012
bioramani
Using linear motor principle.
Here is an example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linimo
That is one way. Great thinking sir- The Mahglev.

A maglev train running at constant velocity is levitating. Hence friction is zero. Also it is moving from point A to Point B!
CE Designer
CE Designer • Feb 29, 2012
I was using the bullet train as a practical example. Real application would have many challenges, the main being having to overcome air resistance.
Can we use the magnet idea to create a perpetual machine in a lab?
It can be anything, the main idea here is that it uses the repelling forces of like poles to create a continuous motion.
CE Designer
I was using the bullet train as a practical example. Real application would have many challenges, the main being having to overcome air resistance.
Can we use the magnet idea to create a perpetual machine in a lab?
It can be anything, the main idea here is that it uses the repelling forces of like poles to create a continuous motion.
Have you looked at this?
https://www.crazyengineers.com/community/threads/quatum-levitation-physics-in-a-lighter-vein.51811/
Alienator
Alienator • Feb 29, 2012
per
CE Designer
That sounds just about right but i have a question. Bullet Trains! They use electro magnets right? They turn on the current, like poles repel and raise the train off its tracks and an initial velocity is applied to the train.
Lets say we use permanent magnets instead of electro-magnets so that we don't need current and like a satellite we apply an initial velocity. Is there anything that will stop the train?
permanent magnets cant be a solution here as its property is lost ultimately 😔
CE Designer
CE Designer • Feb 29, 2012
Alienator
per
permanent magnets cant be a solution here as its property is lost ultimately 😔
Oh well there goes that idea 😁 Well i like a challenge so i will give it some more thought.
CE Designer
CE Designer • Feb 29, 2012
bioramani
Have you looked at this?
https://www.crazyengineers.com/community/threads/quatum-levitation-physics-in-a-lighter-vein.51811/
I had seen this a while ago but forgot about it. thanks for the refresher 👍

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