IS DIESEL BASED AIRCRAFT ENGINE POSSIBLE ?

Replies

• 

  zaveri

  aircrafts generally use turbo jets or turbo-props. i think they can use any fuel, be it diesel or petrol, not so sure of it though.
• 

  SYED BASEERULLAH

  zaveri

  aircrafts generally use turbo jets or turbo-props. i think they can use any fuel, be it diesel or petrol, not so sure of it though.

  If turbo-jets can run on any fuel,then why don't we prefer petrol and diesel rather than going for white petrol,which is costlier one.
• 

  zaveri

  SYED BASEERULLAH

  If turbo-jets can run on any fuel,then why don't we prefer petrol and diesel rather than going for white petrol,which is costlier one.

  
  I don't know what white petrol is, but looks like it has better calorific value, which can easily power turbojets, unlike petrol and diesel, which can be used only for something comparitively light-duty such as automobiles.
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  That's an interesting discussion. I'm a little more interested in knowing about biodiesel and whether it can be used in aircrafts and what's the overall impact on the design & weight of the aircraft.
• 

  zaveri

  Biodiesel is an alternate fuel over petrol or diesel for I.C engines (no matter what the application may be).
  
  it is generally the oil extracted from plants such as jathropa.
  
  the only disadvantage of biodiesel is that NOx emissions are rather high and NOx has drastic effects on human beings and causes acid rain.
• 

  Ramani Aswath

  The problem may be related to IC engines. Planes do not use these any more. Diesel is a compression ignition fuel requiring very high compression ratios compared to petrol, which is a spark ignition fuel. The higher compression ratio leads to more engine maintenance, which is not looked on kindly in flying.
  
  If we get back to dirigibles (rigid Helium balloons) a diesel propeller may be a worthwhile alternative.
• 

  gohm

  Jet A & A1 jet fuel is very similar to diesel. This is why the US Marines uses diesel vehicles so everything can run on jet propellant. Thielert & Austro both make aircraft diesel engines, I'm sure there are probably others too.
• 

  SYED BASEERULLAH

  gohm

  Jet A & A1 jet fuel is very similar to diesel. This is why the US Marines uses diesel vehicles so everything can run on jet propellant. Thielert & Austro both make aircraft diesel engines, I'm sure there are probably others too.

  Thank you for your help,but can i know what was the problem that was faced early in designing a diesel engine and how it had overcome the situation.
• 

  gohm

  Although diesel engines have been around for a long time for aircraft and airships, they fell out of favor before World War II due to a much lower power to weight ratio than a turbo prop and the cheapness of avgas. Recently with improvements in diesel engine technology combined with the rising cost & availability issues of avgas have led several companies to again design & build using diesel engines so the planes can run on kerosene (basically what jet fuel is) and also automotive grade diesel fuel.
• 

  ABHINAV RANJAN

  SYED BASEERULLAH

  I have heard that an aircraft engines runs on white petrol, but i didn't got the reason that why we don't design an aircraft engine that runs on diesel or petrol.Can anyone give me the right reason.

  If you are asking from design point of view the answer is surely "YES". But next comes the practical viability. Aircraft engines are designed keeping in view the many other operative limitations: like ease of handling, cleanliness, flash point, relighting capacity, storage and of course commercial viability.
  Earlier aircraft used to run on 100 octane petrol (which you might have indicated as white petrol); some of them are still in use in india like HTP-32 used in airforce as trainer aircraft, micro lights and now a days UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) . Due to high inflammability property of petrol has restricted it's use augmented by rising fuel prices. Now a days the aircraft runs on ATF (Aviation Turbine Fuel) ; it is nothing but highly purified form of Kerosene which is also called K-50 in India for Koyali Refinery production of 50 micron purity.
  
  
  The reason for using this is : it's clean; it's flash point is nominal; it can be sprayed under high pressure through tiny nozzles, it doesn't condense easily at high altitudes and from commercial point of view it's still cheaper than diesel.
  
  No doubt several advancement has been made in the field of diesel engine also but still it's inherent charactristics like high flash point , viscosity and chances of blocking the tiny fuel nozzels are keeping it away from choice of design engineers.
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  itsmesanthugowda

  syed intresting!!!!mainly turbo power is important and gasoline has high compression ratio...I think diesel-aero engines were tried during early 1940s... Advantage- is its excellent SFC specific fuel consumption, higher density, also for diesel no spark plugs or else no electrical interference is required.may b its time to make an optimum diesel based aircrafts......
• 

  itsmesanthugowda

  abhinav

  ABHINAV RANJAN

  If you are asking from design point of view the answer is surely "YES". But next comes the practical viability. Aircraft engines are designed keeping in view the many other operative limitations: like ease of handling, cleanliness, flash point, relighting capacity, storage and of course commercial viability.
  Earlier aircraft used to run on 100 octane petrol (which you might have indicated as white petrol); some of them are still in use in india like HTP-32 used in airforce as trainer aircraft, micro lights and now a days UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) . Due to high inflammability property of petrol has restricted it's use augmented by rising fuel prices. Now a days the aircraft runs on ATF (Aviation Turbine Fuel) ; it is nothing but highly purified form of Kerosene which is also called K-50 in India for Koyali Refinery production of 50 micron purity.
  
  
  The reason for using this is : it's clean; it's flash point is nominal; it can be sprayed under high pressure through tiny nozzles, it doesn't condense easily at high altitudes and from commercial point of view it's still cheaper than diesel.
  
  No doubt several advancement has been made in the field of diesel engine also but still it's inherent charactristics like high flash point , viscosity and chances of blocking the tiny fuel nozzels are keeping it away from choice of design engineers.

  hey time has come.... now we are able to get clean ,non stingy diesel....
• 

  itsmesanthugowda

  itsmesanthugowda

  abhinav
  
  hey time has come.... now we are able to get clean ,non stingy diesel....

  its better to make use of hydrogen else biogas
• 

  Gurjap

  Not only diesel based jet fuels are possible, they are probably being used right now in many, many fighter craft today. The main reason? A rather high flash/fire point of this particular fuel. This is a very important consideration for a fighter craft, since if enemy AA bullets or shrapnel find their way into fuel tanks carrying volatile, low flash-point fuel, the leaking fuel will cause the craft to transform into a fireball in a matter of seconds.
  
  [PS. They will never tell you what their fighter jets run on. Security reasons. This is speculation and guesswork on an obvious point.]
  
  That being said, diesel-like jet fuels are more likely to be smoky, which is a strict no-no for stealth aircraft. Also a problem for civilian aircraft use in today's environmentally-conscious times. This problem can, however, be solved using afterburners and by slight improvisations in the combustion chamber of the jet.
  
  For a more exhaustive treatment of the subject, I refer you to Roger, Cohen and Saravanamuttoo's Gas Turbine Theory and Practice
• 

  SYED BASEERULLAH

  Gurjap

  Not only diesel based jet fuels are possible, they are probably being used right now in many, many fighter craft today. The main reason? A rather high flash/fire point of this particular fuel. This is a very important consideration for a fighter craft, since if enemy AA bullets or shrapnel find their way into fuel tanks carrying volatile, low flash-point fuel, the leaking fuel will cause the craft to transform into a fireball in a matter of seconds.
  
  [PS. They will never tell you what their fighter jets run on. Security reasons. This is speculation and guesswork on an obvious point.]
  
  That being said, diesel-like jet fuels are more likely to be smoky, which is a strict no-no for stealth aircraft. Also a problem for civilian aircraft use in today's environmentally-conscious times. This problem can, however, be solved using afterburners and by slight improvisations in the combustion chamber of the jet.
  
  For a more exhaustive treatment of the subject, I refer you to Roger, Cohen and Saravanamuttoo's Gas Turbine Theory and Practice

  Gurjap

  Not only diesel based jet fuels are possible, they are probably being used right now in many, many fighter craft today. The main reason? A rather high flash/fire point of this particular fuel. This is a very important consideration for a fighter craft, since if enemy AA bullets or shrapnel find their way into fuel tanks carrying volatile, low flash-point fuel, the leaking fuel will cause the craft to transform into a fireball in a matter of seconds.
  
  [PS. They will never tell you what their fighter jets run on. Security reasons. This is speculation and guesswork on an obvious point.]
  
  That being said, diesel-like jet fuels are more likely to be smoky, which is a strict no-no for stealth aircraft. Also a problem for civilian aircraft use in today's environmentally-conscious times. This problem can, however, be solved using afterburners and by slight improvisations in the combustion chamber of the jet.
  
  For a more exhaustive treatment of the subject, I refer you to Roger, Cohen and Saravanamuttoo's Gas Turbine Theory and Practice

  thank you very much. It's really helpful
• 

  SYED BASEERULLAH

  Gurjap

  Not only diesel based jet fuels are possible, they are probably being used right now in many, many fighter craft today. The main reason? A rather high flash/fire point of this particular fuel. This is a very important consideration for a fighter craft, since if enemy AA bullets or shrapnel find their way into fuel tanks carrying volatile, low flash-point fuel, the leaking fuel will cause the craft to transform into a fireball in a matter of seconds.
  
  [PS. They will never tell you what their fighter jets run on. Security reasons. This is speculation and guesswork on an obvious point.]
  
  That being said, diesel-like jet fuels are more likely to be smoky, which is a strict no-no for stealth aircraft. Also a problem for civilian aircraft use in today's environmentally-conscious times. This problem can, however, be solved using afterburners and by slight improvisations in the combustion chamber of the jet.
  
  For a more exhaustive treatment of the subject, I refer you to Roger, Cohen and Saravanamuttoo's Gas Turbine Theory and Practice

  thank you very much. It's really helpful