15 Nov 2013

Is astrology a science?

CEans,

We are the students of science. There is a debate going on whether astrology is a science or not. There have been opinions based on experience or beliefs.

What is your take? Why?
shalini_goel14

shalini_goel14

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
Well,

Astrology is a science that depicts someone's future by the movements of stars ,planets and other celestial objects. I believe in it because mine most of the times goes true, if sometimes it don't ,I feel astrologers would have done some mistakes in calculations.😉
10 years ago
shalini_goel14
Well,

Astrology is a science that depicts someone's future by the movements of stars ,planets and other celestial objects. I believe in it because mine most of the times goes true, if sometimes it don't ,I feel astrologers would have done some mistakes in calculations.😉
Shalini, I think you answered based on your beliefs. Any scientific explanation of how stars/planets could be affecting one's fate?
shalini_goel14

shalini_goel14

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
They do some calculations based on some formulaes, that is a part o science only I guess hmm?
10 years ago
shalini_goel14
They do some calculations based on some formulaes, that is a part o science only I guess hmm?
Have you ever tried to find out what they do?

Anyone's got clue?

I bet Mayur has some insight. Mayur, you listening?
mayurpathak

mayurpathak

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
There is still a debate that Astrology is not a science. But as a matter of fact, Astrology uses some complex calculations in determining the positions and movements of the celestial bodies (planets and stars) and their effects on us. The study is mostly based on interpretations and abstract assumptions.

There are many people, especially in the subcontinent who believe in astrology, although most of them worldwide think its a 'pseudo-science'
sauravgoswami

sauravgoswami

Electronic
10 years ago
Astrology is mathematics and mathematics is not science though it is mostly used for sceintific purpose...moreover studying astrology doesnt need any base
MaRo

MaRo

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
For me, completely unacceptable.
silverscorpion

silverscorpion

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
Astrology is mathematics and mathematics is not science
As a matter of fact, Mathematics is the purest form of science. It's the language of scientists and engineers.

And as about astrology, it can be considered a science. But i have no clue about planetary interactions governing events in another planet. The only force of such magnitude and reach would be gravitational force, binding the planets together. So, I can only guess it has something to do with gravitational force.
Ashraf HZ

Ashraf HZ

Communications
10 years ago
One could probably rationalize how movements of stars and planets can eventually effect humans, perhaps by the propogation of cosmic rays, domino effect of gravitational variations or still unknown radiation types 😉

Heck, I would be in a "bad mood" tomorrow if I was suddenly showered by higher than normal intensities of UV rays!

I'm thinking Astrologers themselves would not want to define their art as science (in a secularist sense), since you still need to believe in some sort of divinity.
raj87verma88

raj87verma88

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
It is a question of belief. If 'A' believes in it, then he/she will provide all proofs explaining that this real and is a science. If 'B' does not believe in astrology, then he/she will provide all theories and proofs that condemn astrology. Whatever the number of proofs both provide, they will be unwilling to stray from their point of views and accept the other's. And the debate will continue forever. Those who follow the middle path are quite rare.
Ashraf HZ

Ashraf HZ

Communications
10 years ago
raj87verma88
It is a question of belief. If 'A' believes in it, then he/she will provide all proofs explaining that this real and is a science. If 'B' does not believe in astrology, then he/she will provide all theories and proofs that condemn astrology. Whatever the number of proofs both provide, they will be unwilling to stray from their point of views and accept the other's. And the debate will continue forever. Those who follow the middle path are quite rare.
Actually, it's quite multidimensional. Something you believe in doesn't have to be "proved" by science. If we associate proof with science, then we are assuming (and hence "believe") that science is absolute truth. No divergence of views there right? 😉
raj87verma88

raj87verma88

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
ash
Actually, it's quite multidimensional. Something you believe in doesn't have to be "proved" by science. If we associate proof with science, then we are assuming (and hence "believe") that science is absolute truth. No divergence of views there right? 😉
But still you will gather all proof you can to nullify any possible allegations. In India we have some religious channels where the priests sometimes provide scientific proof about God's existence. The proof of God's existence is quite multidimensional too and those who believe will continue to do so and those who don't..blah blah. But the point is that when you believe in something, you tend to prove it logically and rationally to show that this is in fact possible. No one will accept that he/she believes in something because of no reason. But many times this is the case.
Some people I know believe in their particular religion without even understanding it. They have no idea about it's meaning and sculptures, but when you try to debate with them, they are just not willing to listen to your point and in turn will provide proofs supporting their thoughts. The reason for such behavior is that they were born in a family which followed that religion and this has become a way of life for them. They cannot accept anything else. And they will prove it scientifically also.
Ashraf HZ

Ashraf HZ

Communications
10 years ago
You are right, one's worldview will entirely influence what they believe and how they see the world.

Even science itself cannot be considered the basis of rational judgment, since it is continuously shaped by new discoveries and so on. I'm sure those in the future will laugh at what we thought was "right" in the purview science. We'll be like those fellows who strongly believed the Sun orbited the Earth 😉

So, I think truth based on science will always be relative to time (albeit quite slowly). But somehow, belief in some divinity have survived the test of time, even at the midst of the exponential rate of technological and scientific progress.
gohm

gohm

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
No, it is not a science. it is a belief system as is tarot, palmistry, etc. A science explains the universe. A belief system explains your individual place in the universe.
10 years ago
Is there "A + B = C" in astrology? If yes, we should be able to predict the future.
sauravgoswami

sauravgoswami

Electronic
10 years ago
Well Mathematics has its application everywere mostly in accountancy is that a sceince too and what science we study in mathematics,mathematics is not purest form of sceince,sceince uses mathematics to find solution to its problem and saying mathematics is a sceince then sceince is everywere including arts,anyhow as for astrology its a PREDICTION,this says its not precise,there is no sceintific evidence that how it effects an invidual,since its empirical poeple tend to study and believe in it
cannibalsurfbabe

cannibalsurfbabe

Branch Unspecified
9 years ago
Sorry to bump an old thread but this one is of particular interest to me, I'm writing about renaissance european astrology for my thesis.

I think perhaps some of you are getting confused between astronomy and astrology here.


[FONT=&quot]Astronomy is the scientific study of celestial stars, planets, comets and galaxies that originate outside of the Earth's atmosphere. Historically speaking astronomy is seen as one of the oldest sciences. [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Astrology, is the interpretation of such data which claims to show an influential relationship. And [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]this influence would come from the movement of the heavenly bodies exerting force on man.

So stricly speaking astrology is not a science, though it could be seen as an interpetive science/art if anything.

There were attacks and calls for it to be systematised particulary by Francis Bacon and also by The Royal Society in the 17th C. They wanted to reform astrology by systematically collecting as much data as possible and testing it.

They were cool with weather prognostications but not with things like 'should I cut my hair?', 'who stole my cow?', 'When will Pop Innocent VIII die?' - which were exactly the type of astrology they did not want anymore.

ps - not an engineer, but the missus of one.
[/FONT]
Saandeep Sreerambatla

Saandeep Sreerambatla

Branch Unspecified
9 years ago
Astrology is Mathematics.

Since asatrologers use something called "Panchangam" where in the movement of all stars etc will be calculated.

So based on time of birth of an individual people calculate all the planets governing him , thus based on calculations good time and bad time can be said.

The calculations can be proved to be true.

People can anticipate the Eclipse after any number of years , sun rise sun set etc can also be calculated.

Astrology is Maths which involves the science too.

The solution given by Astrologer has Science with Divinity.
Rohan_sK

Rohan_sK

Branch Unspecified
9 years ago
This is a topic with immense potential for a constructive discussion if we have the willingness to open our eyes to the teuth prevailing since thousands of years, yet somewhat unlearnt or not evn an attempt to understand it fully.

There will be strong arguements on this to follow I know. So for all the souls who enjoy bashing this science ( and Yes I call it a science, rather a science beyond science, and I mean it), I would cite only one example in the beginning.

This example will give them some insight.

Ex. The Indian sages who lived about more than 5000 to 6000 years from today( even earlier) had accurately done the following reasearch in those days itself :

1. They had Accurately and Succesfully found out the number of planets in the solar system.

2. They had accurately found the colour of the planets, their possible environment, and the exact period of their retation about themselves and their revolution around the sun. And by exact I mean EXACT which modern science could do only may be 500 years back. And today the scientist have found these parameters to be in accordance to what was stated 6000 years back.

3. They always said that its the earth which revolves round the sun and not the otherway round, this again 5000years before Galileo.

4. They had proven 5000 years back that the moon and its lunar phases have deep impact on the pyschology of humans and all psychological problems escalate with proximity to the Full Moon.
This is exactly what Modern Pyschology has now found and conformed after extensive reasearch only today.

And they did all this without any modern day equipments. How?

Well there is no time and space to disuss this in detail, or else there is a plethora of evidence / proof to prove that astrology is a perfect science. Yes I do believe that, and only after putting it to test for many many times.
cannibalsurfbabe

cannibalsurfbabe

Branch Unspecified
9 years ago
Anticipating the eclipse and other celestial movements is astronomy. This is scientific and mathematically based but its interpretation is not.

The art of astrology is made to appear very scientific. When a chart is created the astrologer has to fix the exact time someone was born, translate that time to GMT, then into Sidereal time, then back into local Sidereal time, then perfrom calculations to determine zodiacal and planetary positions for this exact time.

Once the maths has been done and the chart is complete there is nothing overtly obvious about any particular observations that an astrologer will infer, this is where it has to become an art due to the many interpretations and permutations.

The problem is that astrology is not supported by sound and verified scientific research, like statistical studies. Astrology is not based upon collected data and carefully controlled, objective observations. Astrology is not based up falsifiable predictions which are tested and re-tested by independent observers and researchers.

The huge variety of methods for interpreting astrological data - or even for gathering astrological data - creates a problem for the claim that astrology is genuine or accurate. Astrologer Prudence Jones admitted as much in the Astrological Journal in 1996:

Even within astrology, our various systems don't agree either. In horary astrology the Moon's north node is a point of ill-fortune, but in humanistic astrology it is the direction of personal growth. A planet may be in Cancer in sidereal astrology but in Leo in tropical astrology. Serious astrologers often decry Sun-sign forecasts as some sort of unfounded gibberish, but Sun-sign techniques (turning the chart, transits to "turned" house rulers, lunations in "turned" houses etc.) are in fact part and parcel of standard astrological method. The rules of traditional, modern (post-Theosophical), sidereal, and local space astrology (with its sidereal ancestor Vastu-Shastra) are quite different. Yet how many of us have decided that we would be tropicalists rather than siderealists, traditional rather than modern astrologers (or vice versa) after any process of sober reasoning?
Whichever paradigm is chosen for astrology, that will determine the ways in which astrology is to be explained, justified and defended. If astrologers try to claim that their work is scientific, their work will have to be evaluated on strictly scientific terms; if it fails, then so does their program.

So one the one hand if some astrologers openly admit that their work has nothing really to do with science (and many do) and is instead a subtle psychological and interpersonal art, then matters change considerably. So long as astrologers no longer claim to be making empirical and verifiable statements, then strict scientific scrutiny would no longer be appropriate. Instead, astrology would have to be evaluated in terms of how well it serves individual clients, both psychologically and emotionally.

Just cos it's got an ology, it doesn't make it a science.

"An ology. He gets an ology and he says he's failed. You get an ology, you're a scientist!" (as "Beattie" in a British Telecom Advertising Campaign)
vishnu priya

vishnu priya

Branch Unspecified
9 years ago
Yes definitely,in my view Astrology is a science.
inform

inform

Branch Unspecified
9 years ago
We can say that astrology is science.it also involves various mathematical calculations.but often these calculations are not very correct.that is why there is much difference between the predictions of two persons at the same time.
safwan

safwan

Branch Unspecified
9 years ago
For me its not acceptable even i don't believe in it. But my question is why we people want to know about our future.?
silenthorde

silenthorde

Branch Unspecified
9 years ago
The question I want to pose is " Why does astrology need to be a form of science?". The topic is posed in a fashion that makes it seemingly obvious that everything has to be science or a part of it to be true.

Science fails to explain several phenomena. Science is not even sure as to how the universe was created.

Lets Think of it this way, suppose I am drawing a random curve on paper and I have asked you to predict what I might draw. We both start drawing simultanoeusly, and the referee says that your prediction exactly matches mine till 10secs of drawing. You say okay then, I know the pattern and can predict it...

Assuming this can you say that your prediction in the 11th sec will match mine?


Science explains what we have seen so far, but the very next second the phenomena might change. But that is not where science fails, it will frame or rather reframe it's existing laws to accomodate that change. But does the problem end there? The same problem is likely to creep up every next moment?

What it proves is that even Science cannot predict the future. Actually nobody can, so mixing Astrology with science and science with astrology wont help our cause. The problem is far deeper than this...

Regards

Biswa
inform

inform

Branch Unspecified
9 years ago
safwan
For me its not acceptable even i don't believe in it. But my question is why we people want to know about our future.?
There can be many answers to your question,not one reason can satisfy a person.For ex. when a mother consults an astrologer definetly it's her curiosity to know about her child as to what would be child's profession?how will be his peformance etc..And one thing i forgot to mention that all of us always think of our betterment.it's very natural.
Also there are certain remedies (so called) in astrology which can cure any unwanted situation or you may say something that may cause harm to you.so certain people go after astrology so that they may follow certain remedies and improve their future etc.
In short "for betterment of their future"
Hope you are satisfied.If not ask again
thankyou
jhbalaji

jhbalaji

Branch Unspecified
9 years ago
It's a Science Field mate
Astrology (from Greek ἄστρον, astron, "constellation, star"; and -λογία, -logia, "the study of") is a group of systems, traditions, and beliefs which hold that the relative positions of celestial bodies and related details can provide information about personality, human affairs, and other terrestrial matters. A practitioner of astrology is called an astrologer. Scientists consider astrology a pseudoscience or superstition.

Numerous traditions and applications employing astrological concepts have arisen since its earliest recorded beginnings in the 3rd millennium BC. Astrology has played an important role in the shaping of culture, early astronomy, the Vedas the Bible, and various disciplines throughout history. In fact, astrology and astronomy were often indistinguishable before the modern era, with the desire for predictive and divinatory knowledge one of the primary motivating factors for astronomical observation. Astronomy began to diverge from astrology after a period of gradual separation from the Renaissance up until the 18th century. Eventually, astronomy distinguished itself as the scientific study of astronomical objects and phenomena without regard to the astrological understandings of these phenomena.
Ashraf HZ

Ashraf HZ

Communications
9 years ago
inform
For ex. when a mother consults an astrologer definetly it's her curiosity to know about her child as to what would be child's profession?how will be his peformance etc..
This sounds like an engineer. Trying to model and predict system performance.. 😉
raj87verma88

raj87verma88

Branch Unspecified
9 years ago
It is a farce. But I like to know what the astrologers say because many times they are quite funny.
5 years ago
I didn't really want to bump an old thread; but I'm really interested in taking this discussion forward and collecting views and options from all our CEans. One of the recent incidents make me wonder whether Astrology is really a science that allows an astrologer to guess the past & present by reading 'patrika' [(horoscope?) don't know English equivalent for it, sorry] and predict future with astonishing accuracy.

So my mother accompanied my aunt (who's worried about her son's career) to a local astrologer who's quite popular among people here. All aunt did was hand over the patrika to the astrologer and said, "Could you tell me about my son's career?".

The astrologer then went on to correctly guess that my aunt's son's had troubles getting through graduation (fact) and also facing problems with his PG course (fact). She made predictions about his personality (mostly accurate; but very generic) and suggested that he should not follow the PG course he's enrolled in. She suggested that MBA would be a better option for him.

Obviously my mother and aunt were awestruck.

On one hand, my scientific mind wants to believe that the astrologer is extremely awesome at the science of deductions (like Sherlock Holmes) or astrology indeed is a science that needs a deeper look for the benefit of humans.

Have you known any such astrologers who guess your past & present accurately and also make predictions?

PS: At the time of my birth; astrologers had predicted that I'd become a doctor.
5 years ago
For me, I don't believe astrology.
My uncle has explained me the definition, In tamil we called astrology as "jothidam". Every people having "Agni(jothi)" in their soul. To make this agni healthy "thidam(Strong)", So astrology is used to make our heart and soul healthy.

From my view, We worship Nine Planet (deity) in an every temple. Every planet having different vedic meanings & power & energy flow in it. Every days in our life several planets are dominated. So when a baby born in monday, it have some power. Similarly its changes depend upon the day.
5 years ago
@KSS manian - but how does that justify the astrologers making correct guesses about your past and present? The accuracy they get is mind boggling.
5 years ago
Kaustubh Katdare
@KSS manian - but how does that justify the astrologers making correct guesses about your past and present? The accuracy they get is mind boggling.
The word you mentioned is the answer. its purely a "guess". It may be correct or wrong. 😀
5 years ago
KSS manian
The word you mentioned is the answer. its purely a "guess". It may be correct or wrong. 😀
There's the key! Even if we assume it's a 'guess' - how do they get it 'correct' almost every time?
Anoop Kumar

Anoop Kumar

Branch Unspecified
5 years ago
I There is some science with deception. Which I don't understand.There is some palmistry otherwise why everyone have different fingerprint.
I believe name of a person also affect some way (But it doesn't mean every Armstrong will land on moon).
If something hasn't proved yet by current era of scientist that doesn't mean it's doesn't exit.

But, the way Tv NEWS channels show horoscope, it seems more like HORRORscope.
5 years ago
Whenever in doubt, I consult @A.V.Ramani ; who I consider CE's own Google+Wikipedia 😀 . Would really love to have your thoughts sir!
Sarathkumar Chandrasekaran

Sarathkumar Chandrasekaran

Branch Unspecified
5 years ago
I would like to record my opinion here.From my side,astrology is a purescience but the astrologers are the one decreasing the true value of our science.It takes more experience and knowledge to predict and calculate it.our forefathers are great.
But present astrologers are corrupted because they fear that if they say negatively they can loose the customer and all are driving towards money money money.
5 years ago
Kaustubh Katdare
Whenever in doubt, I consult @A.V.Ramani ;
I fervently hope it is justified.

I come from a family with a hoary tradition of disbelief in most rituals and astrology going back many many generations.

One of the important things in Astrology is the activity of Rahu and Ketu. These are not even real objects. They are the imaginary intersection points of the apparent motion of Sun and moon in the sky as seen from the Earth. I feel that it is the height of delusion to think that some mathematical abstraction has a malefic influence on people of the earth. Or should I say Hindus?

I joined one of my important jobs at Rahu Kalam on April 1st. A kind of double whammy. Had one of the greatest times (found my wife too, incidentally).

I do not want to appear controversial. However, when asked a direct question, I have to say that astrology cannot be a science.
https://www.crazyengineers.com/threads/are-vedas-ultimate-answers-to-physics.55409/#post-223801

Someone better than I can bear witness.
Prof.Jayanth Narlikar, reputed astrophysicist from Pune says it with numbers. He contends that astrology came to India with Alexander:
https://articles.timesofindia.indiat...6_1_astrologers-narendra-dabholkar-horoscopes

Here is the actual research paper by Prof.Narlikar and associates:
https://www.currentscience.ac.in/Downloads/article_id_096_05_0641_0643_0.pdf

Here is Prof:Narlikar himself on this: (sorry. It is in Marathi)
micheal john

micheal john

Branch Unspecified
5 years ago
A.V.Ramani
I fervently hope it is justified.

I come from a family with a hoary tradition of disbelief in most rituals and astrology going back many many generations.

One of the important things in Astrology is the activity of Rahu and Ketu. These are not even real objects. They are the imaginary intersection points of the apparent motion of Sun and moon in the sky as seen from the Earth. I feel that it is the height of delusion to think that some mathematical abstraction has a malefic influence on people of the earth. Or should I say Hindus?

I joined one of my important jobs at Rahu Kalam on April 1st. A kind of double whammy. Had one of the greatest times (found my wife too, incidentally).

I do not want to appear controversial. However, when asked a direct question, I have to say that astrology cannot be a science.
https://www.crazyengineers.com/threads/are-vedas-ultimate-answers-to-physics.55409/#post-223801

Someone better than I can bear witness.
Prof.Jayanth Narlikar, reputed astrophysicist from Pune says it with numbers. He contends that astrology came to India with Alexander:
https://articles.timesofindia.indiat...6_1_astrologers-narendra-dabholkar-horoscopes

Here is the actual research paper by Prof.Narlikar and associates:
https://www.currentscience.ac.in/Downloads/article_id_096_05_0641_0643_0.pdf

Here is Prof:Narlikar himself on this: (sorry. It is in Marathi)

Wow, this discussion awesome
aarthivg

aarthivg

Branch Unspecified
5 years ago
KSS manian
From my view, We worship Nine Planet (deity) in an every temple. Every planet having different vedic meanings & power & energy flow in it. Every days in our life several planets are dominated. So when a baby born in monday, it have some power. Similarly its changes depend upon the day.

power? you mean to say, all the people who are born on monday will have same power. Then there are totally seven power. 😛

Kaustubh Katdare
There's the key! Even if we assume it's a 'guess' - how do they get it 'correct' almost every time?
Astrology is a science(science because they talk about planets and stars) along with mathematics.
I had experiments consulting many astrologer with same horoscope. Mostly all said the same and they where referring some books.
My personnel view 'Key' are books that are written about astrology.

way from the topic:

Astrology is a (right/wrong) prediction, but at present it is a good business.
5 years ago
aarthivg
power? you mean to say, all the people who are born on monday will have same power. Then there are totally seven power. 😛
Very crazy. I gave a simple example. If you want i can give even more explaination.
These calculations should be vary depends of the
  • Day
  • Hour
  • Minute
  • Seconds
  • Milli second
  • Micro second
  • Nano second.
So think, you have 8.64E13 Nano Seconds per day. Every Nano seconds have every reactions. Hope you understand now? 😉
Anand Tamariya

Anand Tamariya

Branch Unspecified
5 years ago
KSS manian
Very crazy. I gave a simple example. If you want i can give even more explaination.
These calculations should be vary depends of the
  • Day
  • Hour
  • Minute
  • Seconds
  • Milli second
  • Micro second
  • Nano second.
So think, you have 8.64E13 Nano Seconds per day. Every Nano seconds have every reactions. Hope you understand now? 😉
Think about carrom or snooker. A shot is never 100% accurate - meaning you can hit within a range of angle , and not a milli degree accuracy, to pot the ball.
ISHAN TOPRE

ISHAN TOPRE

Branch Unspecified
5 years ago
@A.V.Ramani @Kaustubh Katdare Why should we debate? when we can verify the truth.

For just fun, enter your DOB, place of birth, time and latitude longitude of your birth place in this website. https://www.mykundali.com/

You can get latitude and longitude from google.
Prepare your Kundli online and get horoscope.
@ramani sir: Share with us, your observation of the things the website says and did they really happened in your life.
5 years ago
@Anand Tamariya - Its not so easy to compare carom & snooker with our ancestors calculations & science.
As a structural engineer, i am astonished when i saw the oldest temples.
Did they used any calculators (or) Used any FE calculations?.
I dont have any wirtten documents to prove.
5 years ago
@Issue - Did you read what the latest posts are talking about? I personally wonder how Astrologers have been able to make correct (or close to correct) guesses about your past and present.
Anoop Kumar

Anoop Kumar

Branch Unspecified
5 years ago
Kaustubh Katdare
I personally wonder how Astrologers have been able to make correct (or close to correct) guesses about your past and present.
Closed Source 😉.
rahul69

rahul69

Branch Unspecified
5 years ago
Kaustubh Katdare
@Issue - Did you read what the latest posts are talking about? I personally wonder how Astrologers have been able to make correct (or close to correct) guesses about your past and present.
consider an analogy of weather prediction, it is based on data processing and not always 100% correct, but still gets pretty close to being correct, I think Astrology works in the similar manner and the complexity of factors involved is so high that there are chances of error, and when error happens, predictions go wrong. 😀

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