29 Apr 2008

Innovations in motorcycle design

[This post comes from an electrical engineer who's a complete newbie to the world of automobiles & therefore his questions might look 'too basic']

With that disclaimer, I'll put my questions straight -

I haven't seen any innovative designs when it comes to the motorcycles. Every year, Honda / Yamaha / TVS / Kinetic & Bajaj folks introduce new motorcycles, with only the 'fiber' body changed [my observation].

For example, Hero Honda is advertising its latest 'Hunk' motorcycle in India. I don't see anything new except a new headlight and few extra plastic parts here and there 😁 .

So, is there anything new in these motorcycles? Can Automobile, Mechanical folks throw some light?
rishisolanki

rishisolanki

Branch Unspecified
11 years ago
ya i might can tell u
very new techonolgy is the ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION in bikes like hero honda Glamour PGMFI and Bajaj Pulsar DTS-FI. This technology has replaced the traditional mechanical carburetors with the electronic ones
Also in bajaj there is a newer technology which is DTS-SI digital twin spark swirl induction used in BAJAJ XCD derived from the mother technology of DTS-I digital twin spark swirl ignition
u can find out more on this on BAJAJ's website
gohm

gohm

Branch Unspecified
11 years ago
Firstly, what a great site! Here goes for post number 1 on my favorite subject, motorcycles.

Although maybe not a lot of major design changes in motorcycles, there have been component changes just as automobiles. Fuel injection, shaft drive, single-sided swingarm, anti-lock brakes, hydraulic clutch, linked brakes, telever front suspension & underseat gas tank (bmw), fuel & oil storage in frame (buell), traction control (race bikes only currently) & "engine as the frame" design. Not to mention led lighting & computer display panels.

John
11 years ago
gohm
Firstly, what a great site! Here goes for post number 1 on my favorite subject, motorcycles.

Although maybe not a lot of major design changes in motorcycles, there have been component changes just as automobiles. Fuel injection, shaft drive, single-sided swingarm, anti-lock brakes, hydraulic clutch, linked brakes, telever front suspension & underseat gas tank (bmw), fuel & oil storage in frame (buell), traction control (race bikes only currently) & "engine as the frame" design. Not to mention led lighting & computer display panels.

John
Welcome to CE John!

I'd love to hear about the DTSI thing that's currently hot in the market.
gohm

gohm

Branch Unspecified
11 years ago
DTSI, digital twin spark ignition, has been around for awhile used by several companies (bmw, mg) and currently in use by Bajaj in an updated form. Honda has the credit for first bringing the system into production. As it's name implies, it comprises of two spark plugs per cylinder located at either end. This system allows for a faster (resulting in more power), more complete burn cycle during combustion. Unlike a standard single igniter, the fuel mixture is burned more quickly because the time duration of the flame to travel the cylinder length is shortened. A cleaner more complete burn helps to reduce emmissions (In my opinion the main reason the sytem is in use, especially with stringent new Euro regs) while increasing hp/torque and improving fuel economy. Bajaj has paired the system with offset ports (also not new) which creates a swirl effect with induction further inhancing effect. Although a good cost saving measure, I do not feel the use of CV style carb is a good matching with this system. Bajaj currently has litigation filed against another manufacture for patent violations however I do not know the specifics or outcome of the case.

John
11 years ago
gohm
DTSI, digital twin spark ignition, has been around for awhile used by several companies (bmw, mg) and currently in use by Bajaj in an updated form. Honda has the credit for first bringing the system into production. As it's name implies, it comprises of two spark plugs per cylinder located at either end. This system allows for a faster (resulting in more power), more complete burn cycle during combustion. Unlike a standard single igniter, the fuel mixture is burned more quickly because the time duration of the flame to travel the cylinder length is shortened. A cleaner more complete burn helps to reduce emmissions (In my opinion the main reason the sytem is in use, especially with stringent new Euro regs) while increasing hp/torque and improving fuel economy. Bajaj has paired the system with offset ports (also not new) which creates a swirl effect with induction further inhancing effect. Although a good cost saving measure, I do not feel the use of CV style carb is a good matching with this system. Bajaj currently has litigation filed against another manufacture for patent violations however I do not know the specifics or outcome of the case.

John
Thanks for the information, John! 😀
gohm

gohm

Branch Unspecified
11 years ago
You're welcome! I hope some of the info was new.
rishisolanki

rishisolanki

Branch Unspecified
11 years ago
hey gohm can u tell us more about buell?????
gohm

gohm

Branch Unspecified
11 years ago
Sure! Buell was started by Eric Buell who worked for Harley but wanted to develop sport bikes. He left to form his own company. Harley later purchased Buell after they became successful. They are v-twin powered (same engines Harley uses) with some of the best advances in recent times in design. Fuel/oil is stored within the frame & swingarm. This lowers the weight producing improved handling & turn-in. On the down side, any frame or swingarm damage will be $$$. Inside mounted brake rotors eliminate torsion loads on the hub. This reduces unsprung weight which increases stopping power. They also sport a mass centralized exhaust which also improves handling. I applaud Buell's technological advancements and hope others follow suit (bmw is also good at this). I must also be honest though that although nice, they are not for me. I do not care for the styling, ergonoics nor the short wheelbase.
11 years ago
gohm
Sure! Buell was started by Eric Buell who worked for Harley but wanted to develop sport bikes. He left to form his own company. Harley later purchased Buell after they became successful. They are v-twin powered (same engines Harley uses) with some of the best advances in recent times in design. Fuel/oil is stored within the frame & swingarm. This lowers the weight producing improved handling & turn-in. On the down side, any frame or swingarm damage will be $$$. Inside mounted brake rotors eliminate torsion loads on the hub. This reduces unsprung weight which increases stopping power. They also sport a mass centralized exhaust which also improves handling. I applaud Buell's technological advancements and hope others follow suit (bmw is also good at this). I must also be honest though that although nice, they are not for me. I do not care for the styling, ergonoics nor the short wheelbase.
Wow Gohm! Thanks for information! 😀 Good to have motorcycle enthusiasts on CE. [​IMG]
ranvir1986

ranvir1986

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
well speaking of the case that Bajaj was up against TVS has been ruled in favour of Bajaj. TVS Flame was the bike in question and was accused to have acquired the Bajaj DTSI tech. TVS has been ordered by a Chennai court to remake the bike.
ranvir1986

ranvir1986

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
Talking of innovating bike design, i believe two strokes are a much viable and inexpensive option to try on. Its a petty that some Norms have gotten the better of them but of late, yamaha and other two stroke racing contendors have introduced variable size ports that allow a punch throughout the range of rpms a bike can get.
gohm

gohm

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
Thanks for the update on the Bajaj/TVS case! Two stroke engines are inexpensive, they just cannot readily meet today's emmission standards.
ranvir1986

ranvir1986

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
Very true that two strokes are polluting and noisy but thats where the variable geometry ports come in handy. More thought into this might actually save the 2 strokes from getting extinct. More over these are ten times simpler than a 4s
Zak-47

Zak-47

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
Does anybody really needs more than those bikes availlable? OK, in every new bike-generation you get a bit chassis improvement. But can you really feel it?
The companies have to bring out new products, so they earn their money. But a lot of horse power has been available for a long time.
Who cares about polluting the environment while riding a motorbike?
gohm

gohm

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
Zak,

Using your chassis example, as an amateur racer you may not "feel" improvements in chassis design directly however you certainly can feel the improvements in the handling as a result. An improved chassis will allow you to brake harder later (deeper) into a turn without upsetting geometry. This reduces your time through the corner. It is very true that winning on Sunday translates into sales on Monday. This has applied to all motor vehicles involved in a form of racing. These improvements make there way into production vehicles which can result in lighter, stronger, faster & safer vehicles. An example of this is traction control & slipper clutches. True, a lot of hp has always been available, however because of racing and technology, hp can now be squeezed from a small, efficient motor. It is true many people do not give pollution a high concern, however there are still lots of people that do, especially if added benefits like fuel efficiency are involved. I would use the widespread use of scooters as an example. There are also developments of alternate power source bikes being perfected around the globe. A good first hand experience of technology advancement in motorcycles is easy to see. Ride a Royal Enfield bullet and then hop on a Suzuki gsxr- quite a change in 40 years time!
raj87verma88

raj87verma88

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
The latest innovation that i know right now is that the motorcycle companies like aprilia are working to make a 2 stroke engine which will have all the perks like great power to weight ratio which gives mind blowing acceleration without the disadvantages of being less efficient. As far as the Indian Bike manufacturers are concerned, i fail to see much difference between their original and upgraded models. The DTSi and the DTSFi have not been invented by them. The manufacturers in India are not into making bikes but into making profit. They churn out bikes for general public. Most of the people require mileage and thats what the companies give them. Very few are into hardcore biking, thought the trend is now shifting.
raj87verma88

raj87verma88

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
Just came across a piece of information.
There is a person named Balu, not his real name, he is an American and a bikes enthusiast, now settled in India. He had started a group here called BulletWallas. It comprises of bullets and other old classic Motorcycles which he also rents to tourists who come to visit India. The head office is in Paharganj Delhi.
This man has modified his old royal enfield quite a lot. The original engine was a 4 stroke 350cc petrol engine. He has installed a 753cc Greeves engine that runs on bio fuel. The bike is now giving an average of 70-75 km/l as compared to 20-30 km/l with the petrol engine. The torque developed by the new engine is quite impressive. He has also installed an ignition system similar to that of a Maruti800 (a car manufactured in India).
He claims that any kind of oil(vegetable/animal fat/used/fresh) can be used to run the bike. It first has to be go through a filter kind of thing provided to you to clean it and then you can put it in your fuel tank.
gohm

gohm

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
I would love to check into this, is their a website? The engine would have to be a diesel engine to run on veg, I didn't know Greeves made one. I would also like to knowhow he pre-heats the veg oil for combustion, I would assume an additional battery was installed? Does it have two tanks to switch from diesel to veg?
thank you for sharing this.
raj87verma88

raj87verma88

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
I don't know about the website. Just read it in a Bike Magazine. Though me and a friend of mine plan to go to his place and visit him as soon as possible. His office is very near to my house(just 20-30 minutes ride). After that i will be able to give more details. I may even persuade him to join CE, what about that.
gohm

gohm

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
very cool, I'll check it out when I get home from work!
gohm

gohm

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
I had the chance to take a quick look around the website, wow, how I wish we could get the 535 diesel RE here in the US! There are also a couple diesel bikes available in Europe as well that are not imported into the US 😔. I'd love to have one & convert to veg! riding with the scent of donuts, laugh.
bala_avc

bala_avc

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
Hi Big K

u may partially correct
the every version of new one is not only differ in apperence wise,
it has also some modification in every component to elemenate the draw back of old model

BALAMURUGAN
10 years ago
I just made an observation. I'm curious to know what 'new thing' is being introduced in all the models.

Let's discuss about all these minor modifications in this thread (or separate threads, if needed).
gohm

gohm

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
ABS and linked brakes are slowly working their way onto more models, starting in Europe. Quite a bit of concept work being done on alternate fueling as well as airbags. Power assisted steering has also appeared, though currently on atvs only. Being that everything trickles down from racing r&d to street vehicles, the next wave will be traction control. Currently used in motoGP and will first appear on sportbikes in a couple years. I also think we will see a growth in the large scooter area and a "greying" between bike/maxi scooter. As gas prices continue to rise, the bmw c1 type design will see a come back. Giving a blend between bike, scooter & car.

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