CrazyEngineers Archive
Old, but evergreen and popular discussions on CrazyEngineers, presented to you in read-only mode.
@Kaustubh Katdare • 29 Oct, 2013
Reading about India's upcoming ambitious Mars mission, I discovered that ISRO and Indian Government is spending over Rs. 450 crore to send a satellite to orbit mars. What's more shocking is mission's objective! Project directory Subbiah Arunan said that the main objective of the mission is to determine whether Mars ever had an environment that supported life.

I see the mission as a complete waste of money, resources, time and talent. The United States has already sent a rover that has landed on Mars and has decided that there's no environment on Mars that can or ever support(ed) life. India's satellite will orbit at a distance of about 363 km (nearest) and 80,000 km (farthest) and figure out the same.

Of course, from engineering & technology perspective, it's going to be a big achievement for ISRO (and India). But it clearly is a 'me too' mission that would prove its point at the cost of Rs. 450 crores. Do you agree? Justify.
@Ramani Aswath • 30 Oct, 2013 • 1 like As a curious individual I do spend time and resource on (what others may consider) some totally useless activity just for my own satisfaction. The pluses of that are: I have fun, avoid watching TV and keep my 'selfishness' intact.

ISRO cannot claim that. Part of that 450 crores is from my income tax. Better spent on making deserts in India habitable.
@Kaustubh Katdare • 30 Oct, 2013 @A.V.Ramani sir, Do you think ISRO's space mission is indeed not required? I think if they had different objectives for the mission; I'd have supported them.
@Ramani Aswath • 30 Oct, 2013 I was going to have a discussion with friends there. Shall revert.
@durga ch • 30 Oct, 2013 I don't consider any money spent on science is waste of money. Its not that every innovation is something eye blinding what no-one ever imagined. Most the innovations are built on preceding innovations and hence even if someone might have taken up an activity earlier, does not mean you have to just let go.. May be the way India does it might shed new light.

Are we not being hypocritical when we complain India does not do anything innovative making a indigenous MARS satellite in itself is a challenging feat . I would rather see it a a step ahead in Indian Science rather than seeing it another me-too thing.
@Kaustubh Katdare • 30 Oct, 2013 It now remains to be seen what 'new' India's ISRO is doing that NASA hasn't done. I think NASA's already got more insight into the life at MARS than ISRO can have from a distance. I'm all game for money being spent on science; but ISRO seems to be reinventing the wheel. If it's not a 'me too' mission; all the money spent is justified (to some extent).

I'd want that money to be spent on basic research than exploring what's in outer space.
@durga ch • 30 Oct, 2013 • 1 like If I were Sandra Bullock with infinite supply of Oxygen and a jetpack to go around, I would never care for Goerge Clooney ( just saying).
I don't think investing in space research is waste of money.During the project development and implementation stages, there might be other minor developments which might branch of as a field of their own. We are part of universe and knowing universe only helps us knowing earth more. yes technological research like inviting swanky glasses and all are part of it, but cannot replace space research in itself.
@Jeffrey Arulraj • 31 Oct, 2013 One more thing you ought to know most info never came out from NASA's exploration of Moon

NASA itself accepted Chandrayaan was more than successful and this was after a man landing on the moon.

I am sure some thing is still there in outer space that is avoiding human persecption

Earth itself is surrounded by 1000's of satellite and still we are finding new resources every now and then. Then how can we be sure that just a land rover and 15 to 20 satellites around Mars will give us more info.

In my opinion it is more important we need to investigate into this matter more
@Ramani Aswath • 31 Oct, 2013 • 1 like An update after some discussion with people in the know.
Apparently the exercise is to develop indigenous deep space exploration capability.
Also to to salve pride of the nation (not to mention some individuals also perhaps).

More may come.
@Ankita Katdare • 31 Oct, 2013 • 4 likes Great discussion point. I don't know how I missed this earlier.
Here are some of my inputs -
The main objective of ISRO’s mars mission is to check whether Mars ever had an environment in which life evolved and to explore the surface, topography, minerology and atmosphere.

[When I read this, it seemed exactly similar to what U.S. did)

But, it has been made clear that ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) will see some synergy with NASA’s Mars Atmosphere and Volatile Evolution (MAVEN), which is scheduled to be launched in mid-November. Both the Space Research Organisations are expected to work together to solve the mysteries in Mars.

Here is a point to note: NASA’s MAVEN is the first spacecraft from Earth devoted to investigating and understanding the upper atmosphere of Mars.

To further elaborate, India’s MOM besides its technological objectives also has ambitious science goals including study of surface features and mineral composition on Mars as well as a search for methane.
A Reuters report stated that Methane, which also can be produced by non-biological processes, was first detected in the Martian atmosphere a decade ago.

On the other side, NASA’s MAVEN will focus on Mars' thin atmosphere. The mission is designed to help scientists figure out how the planet managed to lose an atmosphere that at one time was believed to be thicker than that of Earth.

I hope this helps take the discussion forward in the right direction! 😀
@Sarathkumar Chandrasekaran • 31 Oct, 2013 I agree to Kaustubh because in my perception,It is a utter waste of money.India is a country where still lacking many basic amenities and world bank reported that 32.7% people fall under International poverty line.For more details click here.
So i dont think it is right to waste people's money in exploring other planets and spending all resources.Its not a good way to show off the power because no one would help us if we lack food and fight for it in future.
Its better invest money in R&D of agriculture than any other fields.Provide more doctors,provide basic amenities. Its enough.
@Sahithi Pallavi • 02 Nov, 2013 • 1 like Well, Do we should keep quiet and agree what NASA and others says?

Thanking Ankita for giving very nice description. We just want to know the presence of methane on the mars. I think we should feel proud to have India in the top 6 or 7 countries to have a mission to mars.

India, the world 's 4th largest economy, 2nd largest global market, a leading power in south asia and an emerging global power should be in the top in all the areas and in all the sectors. We should not keep quiet and ignore any area and we should not let others say. India should emerge as a leader and not as a follower.

And poverty, unemployment, health and all, yes of course India is also doing a good job to get rid of such things. Food security act, MGNREGA, many programs and policies are being implemented by Govt to take care of them. It is wrong if we ignore them and allot money for science but we are not doing that. That's the aspect.

And one more point is it's very glad to say that ISRO completed the project only with 450 cr. That's small amount compared to other countries who spent much more than that.

I'm not in favor of Govt, but I just want you to have an idea from the administration point of view.
@Abhishek Rawal • 02 Nov, 2013 • 1 like Yeah sure, we can send satellites to mars to check on whether if methane exists or not & spend 450 crores over bullshit project; while in my own country I see people so hungry that they attack like a fucking dog and ripping off the hands of the people that feeds them. 60+ years of freedom & our people still poor, if you really want 'development' ,'progress' whatever; we should end this war first.

And hey, after coal-gate, commonwealth scam, 2G scam & many other which are not revealed; do you really think ISRO will spend all 450 crores for launching satellites to find out what's the shit in Mars ? Nah! they ain't interested. I bet on my nuts, plutocrates will distribute half of the dead presidents before it even reaches to the ISRO heads.
@Sahithi Pallavi • 02 Nov, 2013
Abhishek Rawal
Yeah sure, we can send satellites to mars to check on whether if methane exists or not & spend 450 crores over bullshit project; while in my own country I see people so hungry that they attack like a fucking dog and ripping off the hands of the people that feeds them. 60+ years of freedom & our people still poor, if you really want 'development' ,'progress' whatever; we should end this war first.
Now please don't take me wrong. Could you please show me a single country having no people with poverty?

Of course I agree with you. We should eradicate poverty. Priorities are always there. India is managing all the issues simultaneously.
The recent food security ordinance is to ensure food security to the poor which can be called as "Right to have Food".
MGNREGA which is otherwise called "Right to Employmment".
And we have "Right to Education".
The problem is with the implementation of those policies which depends on various factors like lack of transparency, middlemen, decentralization etc etc. Even for that, we have got DBT which ensures transparency, efficiency and effectiveness in implementation of the policies.

And hey, after coal-gate, commonwealth scam, 2G scam & many other which are not revealed; do you really think ISRO will spend all 450 crores for launching satellites to find out what's the shit in Mars ? Nah! they ain't interested. I bet on my nuts, plutocrates will distribute half of the dead presidents before it even reaches to the ISRO heads.
This is not related to policy and this is related to implementation which again depends on various factors like the Govt in power, decentralization etc etc.
I don't want to spam this thread by discussing all those. But I'm open for further discussion.
@Abhishek Rawal • 02 Nov, 2013 What I mean is, launching satellites and revolving 'em around martians doesn't implies that we're progressing. I just find it non-sense.We have our own battle to fight in India.
I just mean that, we can utilize 450 crores for better cause.And Mars mission ain't a cause, nor a march towards 'Progress' in my damn opinion.
@Sahithi Pallavi • 02 Nov, 2013 PS : Sorry for spamming this thread, please permit me for few posts.

Okay, as you are talking about the progress of a country, can we spend some time discussing about the words "Progress" and "Development"?

Who should say that India is progressing? ---> It it we, the citizens of India? or is it the people or the heads of other neighboring countries? or is it the present global powers USA, Russia? or is it the International organizations like UNO, WTO etc etc.?

What parameters were considered to say a country is progressing? ---> Is it only the eradication of poverty? Is it only the eradication of diseases? Is it having complete literacy? Is it the nuclear capability? Is it getting a permanent seat in UN Gen Assembly? Is it attracting the highest foreign capital? Is it doing good in services and industrial sectors? Is it self sufficiency? Is it having R&D in space, science and technology?

And the same case with "Development".

Remember, This 21st century belongs to Asia. As we know the top competitors to emerge as a global power are China & India. And India wants to emerge as a global power, a leader. A leader should be a leader with "ability" and "capability".
@Kaustubh Katdare • 02 Nov, 2013 Looks like we've a real argument going on here 😀 . Let's respect each other's points and yet stick to our points & arguments.
@Ankita Katdare • 02 Nov, 2013 • 2 likes Ok, the latest reports suggest that The Indian space agency's Mars Mission is the cheapest by any nation to the red planet! And there are attributes unique to ISRO that enable it to practice frugal engineering at the cutting edge time and again.

When the mission blasts off, it'll carry a Rs 450-crore price tag way below what Nasa, the European Space Agency, Japan and China spent on their journey to Mars.

The budget-conscious country is doing well at its science projects too! 😀
@Abhishek Rawal • 02 Nov, 2013
Sada
Remember, This 21st century belongs to Asia. As we know the top competitors to emerge as a global power are China & India. And India wants to emerge as a global power, a leader. A leader should be a leader with "ability" and "capability".
Does that mean that, If India launches Satellites, then only we have ability & are capable of being a 'Global Power' ?
Now for Satellites, it uses GPS, right ? And, GPS main control center is in US & obviously United States control it & they've patented the entire technology. (Game lost! right here until ISRO develops their own GPS technology)
Providing 70% of world's IT services to world doesn't make us Super power. To be super power, we must have the power of 'controlling' everything. Which we don't have & US have it all. (No wonder why NSA is in news for their evil deeds)
GPS is one of the evil invention of all time, I might sound paranoid but this invention of GPS is primary reason why our data privacy is in danger.
@Sahithi Pallavi • 03 Nov, 2013
Abhishek Rawal
Does that mean that, If India launches Satellites, then only we have ability & are capable of being a 'Global Power' ?
Now for Satellites, it uses GPS, right ? And, GPS main control center is in US & obviously United States control it & they've patented the entire technology. (Game lost! right here until ISRO develops their own GPS technology)
Providing 70% of world's IT services to world doesn't make us Super power. To be super power, we must have the power of 'controlling' everything. Which we don't have & US have it all. (No wonder why NSA is in news for their evil deeds)
GPS is one of the evil invention of all time, I might sound paranoid but this invention of GPS is primary reason why our data privacy is in danger.
Exactly! That's what I'm saying. See, you yourself is saying that to be a global power, we should have the power in controlling everything. So, for that, allotting 450 crores for a space project is wrong? And see, overnight we can't become a super power. We've to try, we've to keep trying, we've to keep doing, we've to keep moving towards the target.

Coming to USA, while comparing India with USA, we need to take various factors in to consideration. We should not compare blindly like ordinary people, we are Efficient Engineers and of course Crazy Engineers 😉, we should be clear and quiet true enough.
I wish I want to make you guys clear.
Historical - America don't have history, It's a new born country, at max it is just 4000-5000 years old.
Political - It is the first country to get independence. First country to have constitution. Federal structure, independent Executive, Judiciary, Legislature, Powerful congress.
Geographical - Lot of fresh water, good land resources, virgin land which increases productivity, yield of agriculture, good resources of iron, coal etc, good climate etc.
Demo-graphical - less population, status of living of people is good.
Technological - more mechanized, more industrialized, more Information Technology.
Economical - I would like to say this is one of the most imp factors which we need to consider which comparing with India. Quantitative easing - they just pump millions and millions of dollars in to their market. And capitalistic economy.
Social - Though it is a colorful country, it don't have many religions, many languages, many customs, many traditions etc like India. Even their family system is different.

and there are many more .... and this is not the case with India.
I'm not explaining the differences between India and USA, My intention is to say that India and USA are different. There are very few similar characteristics between India and USA. We can not compare them blindly all the time. Of course we can not compare but we can compete.
Though India is trying hard to become self sufficient & independent in all aspects and in the process it has to focus on all the sectors and all areas and it can not ignore anything even on the GPS control system that you are saying that India is depending on US.

So, allotting 450 cr for a space project which gives India, a recognition and which gives India, a place in the elite club is wrong?

We've started our discussion with mars and don't know whether we are on the track or off the track now and please don't get offended. I just want to make it clear.
If there is any problem, I can stop my arguments.
@Kaustubh Katdare • 03 Nov, 2013 Well, when you have >70% people without enough food to eat; you can't talk of becoming a super power. India can't become a super power trying to compete with USA or other developed nations. But that's a totally different debate.

Had India been the first nation to send a satellite to Mars, it'd have established itself as a leader. However, India isn't even making a rover land on Mars. To the best of my knowledge; India's only aim is to prove that 'they too' can send a satellite to the Mars and try to discover what's been already discovered. I don't understand the need of establishing colonies on Mars when there are barren lands on Earth, which need to be made habitable.

Why not focus all our resources, money, time and talent on ensuring comfort and safety for humans? If India's problems are solved, let's focus on Africa.

That said, I've have supported this mission had India been the first country to achieve something in space exploration. We definitely need progress in science & technology; but we need to solve the problems of the humans and animals here on planet Earth. Everything else may come later.

I'd really love if ISRO develops technology to find threats to Earth and coming up with solutions to counter potential threats. That'd be something awesome and world would thank India for. Everything else for ISRO should be optional.
@Abhishek Rawal • 03 Nov, 2013
Sada
We've started our discussion with mars and don't know whether we are on the track or off the track now and please don't get offended. I just want to make it clear.
If there is any problem, I can stop my arguments.
Nothing to get offended, debating is always fun. Even offending is equally good for debate, if both parties knows that it's just for the topic & no personal grudge.
And do pardon me if I use foul words, I am blunt & I use strong-language in the internet to the point that people finds it offensive, but that's their problem.

Sada
So, allotting 450 cr for a space project which gives India, a recognition and which gives India, a place in the elite club is wrong?
Need recognition ? Need place in elite club ? In this world of semiconductors, atleast develop one company which develops something without help from any foreign country (except China to assemble them 😉 ) If minute countries like Korea can do that(Samsung), why can't we ?
Anyways I am going offtopic.

I simply mean is, why are we spending 450 crores on something which not going to give us anything except yeah 'recognition'. They can spend 450 crores for some shitty project which entire nation don't care, while they can't work in development in improving the current 2G/3G technology to make it cheaper, which 90% of Indian do care!
@Sahithi Pallavi • 03 Nov, 2013
Kaustubh Katdare
Well, when you have >70% people without enough food to eat; you can't talk of becoming a super power. India can't become a super power trying to compete with USA or other developed nations. But that's a totally different debate.
Again I've to come from the beginning. See India is not sitting idle by allotting all its money to science and space technology. You are talking about the food. What was the recent Food security act about? Is it not about providing food for all those you are talking about? They have given the legal status. It is "Right to Food". A historic act.
If it is the case of spending money to anything or everything only after eradicating poverty, sorry, that's not an art of public administration of a country.


Had India been the first nation to send a satellite to Mars, it'd have established itself as a leader. However, India isn't even making a rover land on Mars. To the best of my knowledge; India's only aim is to prove that 'they too' can send a satellite to the Mars and try to discover what's been already discovered. I don't understand the need of establishing colonies on Mars when there are barren lands on Earth, which need to be made habitable.
You guys are talking like this. But many others criticize India that - see, many countries have made mission to mars. India still can not make it. Indians are poor at space tech, science tech. Indian scientists are not talented enough etc etc. You are right, India wanted to prove 'Even I can'. What's wrong in it? See, if a guy gets 1st rank in the class, that does not mean that what he has done is only the Effort and Talent and no need for others to study. They have to study, they have to try, they have to move forward and we should respect their effort. May be India is not the first country to have a mission to mars, but it is so good to say that India has successful in doing it and it has done its work in the cheapest manner. Why don't you consider this?

Why not focus all our resources, money, time and talent on ensuring comfort and safety for humans? If India's problems are solved, let's focus on Africa.
That said, I've have supported this mission had India been the first country to achieve something in space exploration. We definitely need progress in science & technology; but we need to solve the problems of the humans and animals here on planet Earth. Everything else may come later.
I'd really love if ISRO develops technology to find threats to Earth and coming up with solutions to counter potential threats. That'd be something awesome and world would thank India for. Everything else for ISRO should be optional.
Spending on one thing doesn't mean that ignoring other things. Aren't we focusing on Africa now. Indian Govt is helping many African countries even now by providing them help in Education, Information technology, Infrastructure sectors etc.

See the budget allocations once. We're allotting thousands and thousands of crores to subsidies, food, education, health, agriculture etc etc. We're allotting very small amount to space technology. I think they are planning to improve it to 2% of GDP.
Anyways, I respect this great Indian scientists work.

Probably, this might be my last reply to this thread. I'll be off from Internet again. I had fun with crazy engineers having crazy arguments . And as a public administration student, am once again saying India haven't done any wrong in allotting very small amount for this project.
@Ramani Aswath • 03 Nov, 2013
I respect this great Indian scientists work.
So do I. I have had fairly close association with ISRO scientists. Yes, they have done excellent work. There are many in ISRO that I have worked with closely and many more who are good friends.
However, in this case this activity seems to be more a collective ego trip and a political expediency. After the original posting here I did have discussions. No names can be mentioned to prevent avoidable embarrassment. It does seem that this project is more aimed to shore up sagging activities.
I do not say that an expense of Rs.450 crores is a large waste. However, it is probably an unnecessary one. ISRO itself can use it for something more meaningful.

I recognize the motive of scientists to satisfy themselves. I am guilty myself. I work very hard. However, it is done out of pure selfishness. That the result may benefit society, help people to a better life may well be true. But that fact does not influence me. I will still do it if no one benefits. Yet, working on an activity just as a political expediency or as a 'me too' exercise is anathema.
@Kaustubh Katdare • 03 Nov, 2013 @Sada - I think the analogy you are using is not very appropriate. First - we aren't trying to belittle the achievements or talent of ISRO engineers. They do have the best of the Indian engineering and science talent. The point is about India setting up funds of about Rs. 450 crores for finding life on Mars. Should a country like India do it? I think not.

If this the Mars mission is India's response to the critics, I think we should better learn to ignore. If my neighbours bought a Mercedes, I need not 'respond' with a BMW. In fact, I need to be more concerned about where my money is going than 'proving' that we 'can' do it.

I didn't say we should stop space exploration missions. India should focus on setting up ground breaking technologies that its people and the world can immediately use. For example, United States setup GPS technology and it's being used by everyone. Why can't Indians think about something that dwarfs GPS technology and gives Indians something to really boast about?

Instead of following the United States, why can't Indian talent and resources be used to do some ground breaking stuff in basic life sciences? Say - free of cost or extremely cheap, bulk water purification systems or portable sources of energy or some innovation in low cost housing?

That'd be the money well spent. All I'm saying is that ISRO (and India) has the talent and resources. They should not be wasted on finding life on Mars - which has been proven to have never existed. There are 100x better things India can be world leader in.
@Kaustubh Katdare • 04 Nov, 2013 Adding one more point to the debate and I think it's a very important one. Take a look at this official page that shows the successes & failures of NASA's Mars Missions: https://mars.nasa.gov/programmissions/missions/log/ - the failure rates seems quite big!

Now, NASA, backed by US Government can definitely afford so many failures and yet launch newer missions. However, in India's context; ISRO's chief defends it by saying that ISRO consumes only 0.36% of India's annual budget.

The question is not about percentages. If the Rs. 460 crore Mangalyan fails; all the money would go down the drain! Note that Rs. 460 crore is only the cost of development of the spaceship and the base station. The overall cost of the mission over the next 2-3 years is going to be quite larger than that!

I hope not, but if the Mars Orbiter fails - it's going to be a huge loss!
@Ramani Aswath • 05 Nov, 2013
I hope not, but if the Mars Orbiter fails - it's going to be a huge loss!
I am afraid of that even if it succeeds. That China and Japan failed while India succeeded is being touted as a main gain. Is it?
@Ramani Aswath • 05 Nov, 2013 • 1 like An update:
Mr. Madhavan Nair, the immediate previous chairman, ISRO, said that the Rs. 450 crores could have been used for a better purpose. That is an irrefutable statement from the horse's mouth.
@Kaustubh Katdare • 05 Nov, 2013 Here's the TOI coverage about Mr. Nair's statement on Mars Mission. He says it's a publicity stunt - https://articles.timesofindia.indiat...iter-mission-chandrayaan-i-mars-colour-camera
@ISHAN TOPRE • 06 Nov, 2013 • 1 like A good discussion built up after so many days. I would like to say only a few points (not necessarily pro Mangalyaan) -

1. Experience counts. If some day we want to go to some far off planet like Neptune/ Pluto (Now only a 'massive object' after International Astronomical Union's intervention), we need experiences like this one.

2. No space mission is an isolated one and the teachings of earlier failed/ successful missions are imbibed in next project of ISRO (or any other space agency).

3.There may be some egoism/ internal politics as (Ramani Sir suggests) in ISRO but the mission is good entertainment for public at large.

4.The figures may be old but India's annual turnover is about INR 13-14 lakh crore. And after lakhs of crores of scams INR 450 crore is a very tiny amount.
Give it a sane thought, Had Government sanctioned INR 450 crore for a road development project, how much do you think would had been actually utilized?
At least ISRO has asked 450 and spent 450.

5.Considering 125crore INdians, money spent by each one of us is INR 3.6.
@Kaustubh Katdare • 06 Nov, 2013 Good points, @Issue - Here are a few points to think about -

1. Why spend money & time in trying to solve problems that don't exist yet; and may not exist at least for the next 50 years?

2. Spending so large amounts for the sake of knowledge and no immediate benefits for Indians isn't justified.

3. Entertainment?

4. This isn't a percentages game. Even Rs. 1 crore or 1 lakh built on public toilet is money well spent.
@ISHAN TOPRE • 06 Nov, 2013 1. Why spend money & time in trying to solve problems that don't exist yet; and may not exist at least for the next 50 years?

ans: Problems do exist immediately. It is we who are unable to foresee them. That is why world values those who can foresee future problems.
Consider this one-
Yes NASA has already found that there is no methane, but is USA always right?
Who knows if we accidently discover some other thing which in someway or the other be beneficial to us?
Remember 99% inventions/discoveries until now were accidents.

2. Spending so large amounts for the sake of knowledge and no immediate benefits for Indians isn't justified.

ans: You do not dig a well when you are thirsty.

3. Entertainment?

That one is just a side kick. To satisfy our ever increasing curiosity.

4. This isn't a percentages game. Even Rs. 1 crore or 1 lakh built on public toilet is money well spent.[/quote]
ans: First ask local MLA has he spent what is allocated to him? If yes then did he do it in a proper way? For every satisfactory answer from him/her, we can ask ISRO to build toilets instead. 😀
@Saandeep Sreerambatla • 06 Nov, 2013 After reading through all the posts, what I understood is the argument between spending the money for something and not spending it.

I am a great fan of science and space, India sending mission to mars is waste one statement.

Justification:

If a country is doing something, and if i am doing the same thing to be a super power? how this is justified. my conscious mind says that you dont have to prove that you have the capability, Instead improve capabilities in something else.

I think this is in indian blood, and they call is civilization or way of great living.

For example, I have a problem at my home like a small fight or some small police case. And now if someone comes to our home we project as everything is fine and we are good we lie and act. This is because not that we are self sufficient it is because we are too afraid to project our faults.

Same case with India, If India is sending mission to mars or whereever as other countries are doing it, then thankyou very much but why the hell they dont do all the developments first then go for this one.


Now still after sending Mission, does any country thinks we are super power? I dont think so.
@Saandeep Sreerambatla • 06 Nov, 2013 Simple, take an example of yourself. If I get 100 marks , will you also try to get 100 marks and prove that you are also equally capable or do something which you have to do first to make yourself good?

You dont have to follow someone always, its the following blood I think it runs all over India.

Take small examples, if your neighbour is buying a home, your parents ask you to do it, If he did Btech in Computer science they ask you to do it, or you plan it to do it. And the person who did is following someone else.

So we are mere followers and we can never be super power.

If you have to do something, then send some satellite to sun and find out different things, or send something somewhere no one has done before.

Why are we so interested in reinventing the wheel? to prove what? for whom?

Ok ,so now All the world think that India sent a mission oh! my god now on wards India is a global power which will become a super power. Guys think and now give me a break.
@KSS Manian • 06 Nov, 2013 I am not having the knowledge in invention of satellite (or) spacecrafts.
After gone through the thread. i am also eager to say a few points about this. Mostly all are pointing out that USA was already sent the satellite to mars, then what is the need of repeating the same.
  • Can you please point out the differences between (USA satellite & PLSV C25) because i am having lack of knowledge in this.
  • May be this point is not fit in this debate - See, Four wheeler (car) was invented in 19th century, somewhere in germany. Still now we are using the same concept with new modification. Likewise there could be some difference in their & our satellite.
  • Most of the indian tax payers money went to the politicians wallet for their X Y Z families. Have you think this investment in satellite will affect the indian economy. Its a peanut.
  • Can i ask a question to our people those who really shout for our country & our economy?. Could you use indian products in your home? Soap, trimmer, Dress, Shoe, mobile, Television, Car, Bike, Laptop etc.
So before talk about the indian economy, think how much we participate to increase our country growth & economy.
I dont think spending this crores to engineering will affect the country economy.
@Kaustubh Katdare • 06 Nov, 2013 @KSS manian - I hope you are aware of Mars missions by NASA. It's already sent rovers that have actually landed on the surface of Mars and have been performing several operations.

India's sent a satellite that will orbit around Mars - at lowest 377km altitude and farthest at 80,000 km altitude. While NASA has already collected a lot of information about Mars' atmosphere and has established that life does not exist; India's satellite, equipped with 5 different payloads ( Details: ISRO MARS ORBITER) isn't collecting any 'new' information.

Other countries who've sent satellites on Mars are 'developed nations', and most of them have taken care of the most basic necessities for their countrymen. India, on the other hand, has a ton of problems that need to be solved on priority.

As some of the members pointed out above, if India really wants to 'showcase' their technical might; why not send a satellite to a planet that's not yet been explored? That'd have been an awesome thing!

@Issue - Tell me what is India trying to achieve by knowing how much Methane is there on Mars's atmosphere or the D/H ratio? I personally think Mars Orbiter mission is just a form of corruption by the government under the veil of science & technology.
@Ramani Aswath • 06 Nov, 2013 • 1 like As Lewis Carrol's Alice said,'Curioser and curioser'.
The Mars mission is all about high technology and science. Scientists (and technologists) are supposedly agnostic if not atheistic.
Yet here we have people rushing off to invoke Divine help for mission success. Replicas have been given to various shrines. It seems this has been a regular modus operandi for long in ISRO. For all I know propitiating Mangal was also done to avoid personal and mission mishaps.
Today's papers carry this:
https://epaper.newindianexpress.com/c/1876251

My son (and I) believe this with Martin Arrowsmith of Sinclair Lewis:
'God give me unclouded eyes and freedom from haste. God give me a quiet and relentless anger against all pretense and all pretentious work and all work left slack and unfinished. God give me a restlessness whereby I may neither sleep nor accept praise till my observed results equal my calculated results or in pious glee I discover and assault my error. God give me strength not to trust God!'

Because PSLV cannot deliver higher payloads that GSLV could have done, much of the mission's objectives were jettisoned. Where then is the technological advancement? Why was GSLV not used?

I am afraid that there are far more questions than answers.
@ISHAN TOPRE • 06 Nov, 2013
Kaustubh Katdare
@Issue - Tell me what is India trying to achieve by knowing how much Methane is there on Mars's atmosphere or the D/H ratio? I personally think Mars Orbiter mission is just a form of corruption by the government under the veil of science & technology.
I will like to make it very clear that, I do not know the technical details of the mission. I am only saying that scientists at ISRO may discover something else while they are trying to find methane.
In 1957, when US Navy was working on Nuclear submarine, they invented PERT to support their mission. Now CPM (developed in 1950s) and PERT (1957) are very specialized project management tools.☕
So while doing something, you either invent or discover something else.

From my point of view, here is how this discussion should take place- Try to find the wasteful processes where the money is spent in Mangalyaan and how do you think you can replace it by some lean process. (Like oh! you could have used zinc phosphate instead of copper carbide 👀).

...And that can only be done by people who are either closely associated with it or some really wise engineers,technicians, scientists. That way we will all learn. 😀

P.S: If one is determined on saying that Government is entirely corrupt then I have only one thing to say "We live in democracy". 😀
@Kaustubh Katdare • 06 Nov, 2013 Are we relying on accidental discoveries by spending Rs. 450 crores of taxpayer money?

PS: It'd be nice everyone goes through the objectives of the mission and understand the kind of payloads the orbiter carries before defending the project.
@Jeffrey Arulraj • 06 Nov, 2013 I am sure What the ISRO chief said is apt here

When the people of the nation are willing to spend 10000 Crore rupees on fireworks of Diwali Why not a money worth in the field of research?
We all know this is true in metros The whole night sky was covered in fire works and people where willing to spend nearly 25 times more money for entertainment, Then why not a small amount for development of science once in a while
@Kaustubh Katdare • 06 Nov, 2013 Money spent on fireworks goes to the people of Shivakashi and there's an industry that thrives on fireworks. The same argument can be made about people wasting ton of food through buffet systems.

That said, I repeat my point : No one here is against spending on science or technology. As engineers, we are at the forefront of putting science at work for the benefit of people and advancing human race to better life.

ISRO could have spent that money in developing technologies that immediately help people in some or the other way. Why not put up a satellite that brings full HD / 4K transmission to India?
@durga ch • 07 Nov, 2013
Why not put up a satellite that brings full HD / 4K transmission to India?
will that eliminate poverty from the country?
@Kaustubh Katdare • 07 Nov, 2013
durga
will that eliminate poverty from the country?
It won't. That suggestion was only to highlight that there are several things ISRO could do that would immediately help Indians.

IMHO, eliminating poverty should be the top priority for any country. Developed nations have handled this issue to a greater extent. In India; things are quite worse and that's the only reason I'm not supporting the MOM.
@durga ch • 07 Nov, 2013 space research is not responsible for state of the country . an analogy same to my sleeping duration does not equate to how many hours i invest in creative work.
I don't deny in argument that various other activities can be performed by the space agency, but I would still put my money on whatever research they do. (understandably mars orbiter is not something new)
@Saandeep Sreerambatla • 07 Nov, 2013
durga
space research is not responsible for state of the country . an analogy same to my sleeping duration does not equate to how many hours i invest in creative work.
I don't deny in argument that various other activities can be performed by the space agency, but I would still put my money on whatever research they do. (understandably mars orbiter is not something new)
Why? How is it helping anyone anyway?

How is it helping India? and ISRO?
@Manthan Dadhania • 07 Nov, 2013 As my opinion its not the waste of money, See India's political history, recently open fooder scam, coal scam and many more, the amount scam was above than 460 crore, if MOM mission's 460 crore used as a implement or development in our country, this black politicians is currupt this money.

we need change the system of implement and development.
Implement and development or poverty's line not direct relation with any we spend on technology.

Try to change system automatically all question to be solved.
old generation not to change this currupt system because they have no education to handle this.
if we young generation or educated generation try to change this system than all problems will automatically solved.
@Rachel caroline • 07 Nov, 2013
Kaustubh Katdare
Reading about India's upcoming ambitious Mars mission, I discovered that ISRO and Indian Government is spending over Rs. 450 crore to send a satellite to orbit mars. What's more shocking is mission's objective! Project directory Subbiah Arunan said that the main objective of the mission is to determine whether Mars ever had an environment that supported life.

I see the mission as a complete waste of money, resources, time and talent. The United States have already sent a rover that has landed on Mars and has already decided that there's no environment on Mars that can or ever support(ed) life. India's satellite will orbit at a distance of about 363 km (nearest) and 80,000 km (farthest) and figure out the same.

Of course, from engineering & technology perspective, it's going to be a big achievement for ISRO (and India). But it clearly is a 'me too' mission that would prove its point at the cost of Rs. 450 crores. Do you agree? Justify.
yeah it is a waste of money !!! it is a known fact that mars's environment is not suitable foh survival .I dont get why they wanna waste money in this ???
@durga ch • 07 Nov, 2013
Saandeep Sreerambatla
Why? How is it helping anyone anyway?

How is it helping India? and ISRO?
how is statue of Unity helping India? How are all those Mayawati statues helping India?
Please lets not get into this discussion.
@ISHAN TOPRE • 07 Nov, 2013 @Kaustubh Katdare I just got a call from president. He says, He is aborting the mission. He is also asking forgiveness on behalf of ISRO. 😛
No doubt, India's MOM is Mangalyanik Maangalik.
p.s: sorry for this small joke. This one was last. You guys continue.

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