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TheBugInYou • Feb 5, 2008

Do You Think That Bio-diesel Would Be The Fuel For Future

Hi All.......

Hi Guyz..Its me again with a discussion regarding the Future Fuel. Lets share your opinions/ideas/doubts in this section. Go for the Poll To Vote for your Fuel of Interest. And the Poll options are left to you only.

Here are my Current Options...
1) Petrol
2) Diesel
3) Bio-Diesel (Jathropa Curcus)
4) Hydrogen
5) H[sub]2[/sub]O[sub]2[/sub]
6) Water
7) Steam
8) Coal
9) Electricity
10) Fuel Cells

O.K.????????
Ask any thing about the above options for doubts.
Do reply me with any other option if You know....

START YOUR HUNT FOR A CONVINCING TOMORROW
TheBugInYou • Feb 16, 2008
gr8 Guyz.........
22 Views and not even a single reply
Kaustubh Katdare • Feb 16, 2008
TheBugInYou
gr8 Guyz.........
22 Views and not even a single reply
Probably, you need to format your posts properly. Try using a smaller font.

Coming back to the topic. My vote, for a future fuel, goes to

1. Air
2. Solar power
3. Combination of above two with H[sub]2[/sub]O
I'm not very sure (as of now) why I chose those options, but my intuition tells me that in future, we'll have to rely on them.
Nidhinkoroth • Feb 22, 2008
Compressed Air

Energy of the compressed air
Using Boyle law we get that
E = 10(xLx-x+1) where
E = Energy in Kilogrameters in a tank of one liter volume.
One kilogrameter is a force of one kilo in one meter, is the same energy of 9.81 Joules.
367000 Kilogrameters is a KWH
KWH = Kilowatt hour
Kgm = Kilogrameter
The absolute pressure in the tank is x Kg/cm the absolute pressure is the relative pressure plus one.

Example: The pressure in the gauge of the tank is 10 kg /cm absolute pressure of the tank is 10+1=11 kg/cm
E = 10(11L11-11+1) = 163.758 Kgm
L11 = 2.3978

Volume of the tanks 300 liters
Maximum pressure 352 Kg / cm
Volume of the air at atmosphere pressure 352 x 300 = 105600 liters
Energy for each liter at 352 Kg / cm = 17188 Kgm
Energy in the tanks 17188 x 300 = 5156400 Kgm
Energy in the tanks in KWH 5156400 / 367000 = 14.05 KWH
Efficiency of the compressor 60 %
Electricity for charge the tanks 5156400 / 60 x 100 = 8594000 Kgm
Electricity for charge the tanks in KWH 8594000 / 367000 = 23.4 KWH
Efficiency of the motor 60 %
Speed of the car 80 Km / h
Force for move the car 25 Kgf
Range 3093840 / 25000 = 123 Km
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TheBugInYou • Feb 22, 2008
:clap::clap::clap:

Nice Data ......................

Just dumped Directly from the site...

Dude........I don't mean that you are not capable of searching on Google for Air Cars. What all i need is Make every one think for a better results. Why i initiated the Air-Run engines concept is, It has got a few Drawbacks

Like Lubrication, which is difficult to withstand on the Walls of the Cylinder at the extreme pressures of the compressed air.

The MDI - Air car since introduced a secondary piston with another Con Rod.... Automatically made the number of moving parts increased and this is what directly increases the Fictional Losses.

I want you people to think about things like this and go as depth as you can in the subject and iron out Problems like these ..

Take this Light....

😁😁😁
TheBugInYou • Feb 22, 2008

Your third option makes me think a bit innovative.Even you are here..Thank God. Let me wait for some more time till i get few more options.

coming to that format...
I tried to edit it later But its of no use. Next time it won't look so..
grover • Mar 6, 2008
yes bio diesel will be the future fuel.....
as u all hv healthy discussion abt air engines. u see air run engine cost us more ,we hv to waste energy in compressing it to increase thermodynamic efficiency .... it is good concept but bio diesel will work and it is cost effective
Brar • Mar 7, 2008
Fuel cells wd be a better option than bio diesel if we think of a fuel rich future. If we start using Bio-diesel then we wd have to bring a larger part of fertile area under cultivation of the fuel plant which wd adversly affect the production other food crops and that wd mean putting fuel in ur car and not in stomach!!!!!!!!
gohm • Mar 7, 2008
I would say the first step will be traditional bio-diesel, shortly followed by the more optimal bio-diesel from algae farms. The second step will be electrical/solar. Lastly will be nuclear/particulate power generation which after standard fushion/fission, will result in the ability of bending time for space exploration. Also sub atomic particle reactions will power small devices.

personally though I would love steam! =) There was a futuristic western movie (can't remember the name) where the idea was high technology with low technology industrial, i.e. highly mechanized steam powered robots etc. Amazing concept.
Ashraf HZ • Mar 7, 2008
gohm
personally though I would love steam! =) There was a futuristic western movie (can't remember the name) where the idea was high technology with low technology industrial, i.e. highly mechanized steam powered robots etc. Amazing concept.
Speaking of steam powered robots..
YouTube - Komedi - A Gentleman's Duel 😛

I tend towards focusing on photovoltaic technology more than others. I believe that should be the main "fuel" source!
gohm • Mar 7, 2008
Ash-

thanks for the link, that was a cool bit of anime.

ash
Speaking of steam powered robots..
YouTube - Komedi - A Gentleman's Duel 😛

I tend towards focusing on photovoltaic technology more than others. I believe that should be the main "fuel" source!
Ashraf HZ • Mar 8, 2008
gohm
Ash-

thanks for the link, that was a cool bit of anime.
No problemo, gohm. Though, I must mention that you have to be a little careful to distinguish "anime" and CGI, haha. Of course, unless you mean animation in general.
gohm • Mar 8, 2008
Laugh, you are right! Guess that's why I am not in I.T.😁
raj87verma88 • Apr 16, 2008
I would vote for Hydrogen, water, electricity and fuel cell.
Bio diesel may be efficient but it still causes pollution. And why coal petrol and other fossil fuels on the list.
Steam may be an option but i am not sure.
Nice clip ash.....what is CGI though....and what is the difference between CGI and Anime.....the clip looked like a normal animated cartoon to me.
gohm • Apr 18, 2008
CGI is computer generated whereas anime is normally tradidional animation using drawings etc.

I did also find a cool anime about steam called "steamboy" done by the guy who did Akira. The western movie I was refering too was called "Wild wild west" with Will Smith.
renjunivas • Apr 18, 2008
bio diesel will be our next alternative that man can exploit.
Kaustubh Katdare • Apr 18, 2008
This might be a bit off the topic, but have you guys heard about the experiments done in Norway by engineers on producing electricity by reverse - electrolysis (not very sure).

This electricity can power motors that can drive a car!
raj87verma88 • Apr 18, 2008
The_Big_K
This might be a bit off the topic, but have you guys heard about the experiments done in Norway by engineers on producing electricity by reverse - electrolysis (not very sure).

This electricity can power motors that can drive a car!
I think thats how fuel cells work.
They combine Hydrogen and Oxygen to produce water and electricity. Thats reverse of what happens in electrolysis. ;-)
Kaustubh Katdare • Apr 18, 2008
raj87verma88
I think thats how fuel cells work.
They combine Hydrogen and Oxygen to produce water and electricity. Thats reverse of what happens in electrolysis. ;-)
Oh great! I guess time has come for me to go through my electrical engineering books 😒.

So, are fuel cells 100% eco-friendly? [Do we need a separate discussion thread for this?]
Yes, I think we do 😛

CGI is computer generated whereas anime is normally tradidional animation using drawings etc.
Yep, Gohm is right. "Anime" in general is the term given to japanese-style cartoons. They are somewhat based on the manga comics. Traditionally they use "multiple still images in rapid succession to produce the animated visual effect", while CGI uses the computer to generate the images 😛 Both are subset to "animation".

Regarding Bio-diesel.. look at the rising food prices right now. Don't you think its best to focus on cultivating fertile lands for food these days?
gohm • Apr 19, 2008
Ash you are right about crop production. That's why in order for bio-diesel to survive and be viable they should focus on algae based bio-diesel which can be "farmed" on roofs, water, desert etc. and require a much smaller acreage footprint.
Yea! I forgot you've mentioned it earlier in the thread. Thats a very viable option, considering it can also be used to "filter" streams contaminiated by algriculture waste/fertilizers 😀
Heres an interesting read up: UNH Biodiesel Group

But why isnt it given more publicity? I just saw a documentary today on CNN, a segment called Broken Government: Scorched Earth. They investigated the wastefulness of producing ethanol and biodiesel from corn crops. Yet its still being produced? The video shows TONS and TONS of corn being processed. Even the fertilized lands used for it are subsidized by the US government. I don't know how many families it could have fed.. such a waste. It seems the country is priortizing quick ways to reduce dependence on middle eastern oil over finding a more efficiently, environment-friendly way.

I was thinking of moving this thread to Chemical Engineering, actually 😛
gohm • Apr 19, 2008
Ash, I can sum up why low publicity in two words-
oil industry

I think they are still holding on to corn based biodiesel because it is the most effiecent in yield vrs. mass as well as carbon footprint I believe. I do not think it will take long for algae to equal that in corn as it is much newer tech. Plus, as we have discussed, they are missing the acreage usage/footprint issue as well. The other point you bring up is sad, the wastefulness. Even bio-fuel aside, the US and Europe throws away large amounts of food product every year (corn, wheat, grains, fruits) because of market prices and quality issues (that may not be harmful issues). Modern society is very wasteful, myself included sadly.
gohm • Apr 19, 2008
Ash-

also, go ahead and move this thread. It'll help add some action to the chem forum.
*bump*

Just in case some of you missed my post on Engineering TV in May (https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-infocus/2814-check-out-engineering-tv.html), here are two short videos regarding Algae based bio-fuels.

Intro of algae biofuels
Algae-based Biofuel - Engineering TV

Intro of the bioreactors
Microalgae Bioreactors - Engineering TV

Both vids are split into 2 parts, with a short ad in between.

Be sure to check the rest of the vids!
kvbhardu • Jul 15, 2008
hey
lots of variety in this topic... i go with fuel cells... especially water fuel cells... its a variant of a regular fuel cell but uses hydrogen and oxygen obtained form electrolysis as inputs... they react 2 produce electricity by the normal procedure... n guess d final product?? water n heat...
only problem is tat its been done on small scale... research still goin on... but its gonna b the future fuel 😉
raj87verma88 • Jul 15, 2008
Hi kvbhardi,
First of all welcome to CE. I hope you will love here. Now to the basic rules of this forum.
Rule 1. Edit your posts and post them in a proper format. At least most of the times.
Rule 2. Using SMS lingo and shorthand is a big NO. Its blasphemous.
for other rules you may refer to the CE - Newbie training centre. It has around 4-5 threads that are a must read for newbies.
Secondly, you should introduce yourself to other members of this forum by starting a thread in the CE - Introductions section. No one is going to know that you have joined CE unless you introduce yourself and announce your arrival.
Keep posting and be an active member.
Alien • Jul 16, 2008
Well! Looking at the present scenario its quite obvious that the future of the transport lies on the alternate fuel, Yes any one among them would do but Bio-diesel also seems to be a promising substitute.So Cheers to Bio!! 😀
sajid • Aug 27, 2008
dear sir i need some help in my final year project in failure anaysis of leaf spring.
Dieselman • Sep 5, 2008

Explanation: Food based fuel is a crime against humanity. It shows the shady world that today's lobbyist driven political scene can get us into. Let's hope whoever gets into the White House in Jan, will at least try to limit some of this.

In ChE terms: ChE is sometimes defined as the science of adding value to material. When you convert food into fuel, you are not adding value, you are destroying it.

There is a better way: When you convert waste into fuel, you're back to adding value. 57% of landfill waste is renewable (biofuel). 84% is organic (the difference is mainly plastic). And that's after recycling, which seems to be hitting a ceiling. In the US that's 95 million tons a year of renewables, 138 million tons of organics. 2005 Numbers, courtesy of the USEPA.

Not that it is enough to get us off foreign oil, but it is enough for a decent start. Once we approach full use of our wastes we can start looking at energy crops, having developed a better understanding of what is required.

The problem with biodiesel is that it needs a fairly clean feedstock, lots of methanol (or etahanol) and some catalyst. Great for a DIY project in the garage. Not so great on an industrial scale. Alternative processes (such as TDP, gasification/Fischer-Tropsch) produce a superior product (chemically equivalent to petro-diesel) from dirtier feedstock. G/F-T can also use non lipid feedtocks (most of the available biomass is in the form of cellulose), which biodiesel cannot. The alternatives also don't produce unwanted byproducts (market for glycerine is in the tank, thanks to biodiesel).

Hydrogen: Going nowhere fast. Why convert your clean energy to a form that is difficult to store without leaking, expensive to transport and dangerous to handle on top of that? You're better off using the clean energy in its original form (whatever that is).
Hareen • Nov 12, 2008
We are still in an condition that we cannot exploit the large Solar Power gifted by nature to us.

The future fuels can be solar power and water.

For the bio diesel to come into the scene there are backdrops of performance, power and cost.

Solar power and water have the back drops of cost and maintenance.

They said that the water engine has been made but now under the clutches of petroleum companies which if came out makes their sales go down drastically.

Well what do you think?