25 Aug 2013

Do you think Indian engineering education system needs an upgrade?

This is becoming a matter of concern for me. Almost every day, without fail, I get emails like this -

hi,
am <snipped> of ece 3rd year we have mini project in this semister i just want your help. our mini project is DESIGN FUNCTION GENERATOR USING OPAMPS with in a frequency of 0 to 300khz. so pls could u give me full details of it with its circuit diagram.

thanking you,
yours faithfully,
<snipped>
The text in quote is an actual email copied from my inbox.

Surprisingly, I have never had such an email from any country other than India. So, is it the casual approach Indian engineering students have towards engineering or is it the education system that needs an upgrade?

My personal opinion is that the students have casual approach towards engineering. Colleges asking students to work on projects is perfectly fine, and required. Engineering is about application of science.

However, the volume of such ready-made help requests amaze me. In past, I've been asked for ready made powerpoint presentations, reports & even the circuits! Our "Project Ideas & Seminar Topics" section was formed only to cater to such requests.

What is your opinion? Do you have any suggestions / solutions?
sauravgoswami

sauravgoswami

Electronic
10 years ago
yeah it had to be upgraded,here we get engineers who just have the degrees,most of them either switch there porfession or stuck to some routine job,aftre few years they are totally cut from the technicalities,it had diluted the profession of engineering!!! it had to be more of an understanding than rote learning!!!!
10 years ago
sauravgoswami
yeah it had to be upgraded,here we get engineers who just have the degrees,most of them either switch there porfession or stuck to some routine job,aftre few years they are totally cut from the technicalities,it had diluted the profession of engineering!!! it had to be more of an understanding than rote learning!!!!
Agreed. Do you think it has also got a lot to do with the attitude of the people?

Otherwise we'd not have had a single query asking for all ready made stuff. We are engineers. We are supposed to be making stuff than just rely on someone else's work.
syedaafaq

syedaafaq

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
yes.... according to me indian education system needs an upgrade... because at present the syllabus of all the education systems of india contains only 25-30% of practical oriented subjects whereas the rest is fully theory..... so my opinion is clear that it should be made as 50% of practical oriented and rest 50% of theoritcal....
10 years ago
syedaafaq
yes.... according to me indian education system needs an upgrade... because at present the syllabus of all the education systems of india contains only 25-30% of practical oriented subjects whereas the rest is fully theory..... so my opinion is clear that it should be made as 50% of practical oriented and rest 50% of theoritcal....
This discussions focuses on Engineering education in particular. What do you all think about students asking for ready-made stuff, project ideas, circuit diagrams etc?
10 years ago
Biggi - Pardon me as I am saying something out of sync here, but if we really think that our education system needs to be updated. Why do not we try to send this message to the group who decides what should be the curriculum?

May be we can try to to send them whats the status and what type of requests we are getting from students... Being a leading engineering forum 😁 😁 😁 😁 we should do this. Do correct me if I am wrong?

-crazy
10 years ago
crazyboy
Biggi - Pardon me as I am saying something out of sync here, but if we really think that our education system needs to be updated. Why do not we try to send this message to the group who decides what should be the curriculum?

May be we can try to to send them whats the status and what type of requests we are getting from students... Being a leading engineering forum 😁 😁 😁 😁 we should do this. Do correct me if I am wrong?

-crazy
In my opinion, more than the education system, the attitude of students needs an overhaul.
Ashraf HZ

Ashraf HZ

Communications
10 years ago
Can I ask, what is the average lab manual like in Indian engineering classes? Do they leave students in the lurch as to what kind of circuits they have to do, without any examples? Is that a deliberate attempt to make the students think for themselves?

Or.. is there just TOO many samples or examples that students are stuck with them without extending their knowledge?
aashima

aashima

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
ash
Or.. is there just TOO many samples or examples that students are stuck with them without extending their knowledge?
We used to have 10 experiments, on an average, in a lab. Each experiment with around 5 complex circuits. For instance, if the circuit explains a multiplexer design, we were expected to understand it on our own as its considered a basic circuit but what about the enhancements attached with it? We were well versed with the basic, but were then assumed to be knowing every development.
I too felt during my four year course, the system is more theoretical than practical. They also lack the latest kits that the current companies or softwares employ. This leaves the students wiht only option to take up courses outside their institute.
Ashraf HZ

Ashraf HZ

Communications
10 years ago
Yea, I think the educational kits play a key role. From the labs I had, I understood the concepts more faster by playing around with the communication lab kits rather than going through the theory.

The main issue with my uni is that not may students are taking advantage of the many equipment available. What is the use of buying the latest stuff when no one bothers to use them? The equipment just collects dust in the shelves. Even if the students are not taught to use them, at least they should take to initiative to learn. Perhaps do a side project, or something.

But here's is one dilemma. Does one really expect a student to create a circuit from scratch? If a student takes only a single project in a semester, he/she can very well spend time researching the theory, running simulations and signal analysis. But what about the students who have heavy workloads? Should they be penalized for googling for a circuit? Maybe they will learn something by prototyping the circuit themselves perhaps?

Theres so many factors involved in this situation. The issue with engineering is that technology is progressing exponentially. We are supposed to learn the "basics" faster than ever, while trying to stuff in the new breakthroughs. After all, there have been decades of research behind the knowledge that is now considered basic. Understanding something does take longer than memorizing it. I guess thats why memorization is stressed upon in some educational institutes, because otherwise the typical engineering course would extend an extra few years. What is the opportunity cost for this extension? *shrug*
10 years ago
Very well said, Ash. Especially -

Maybe they will learn something by prototyping the circuit themselves perhaps?
While the discussion is moving towards changing of the system, I believe people [especially the engineering students] should change their attitude towards engineering education.

In India, as I've seen, engineering has become a short-cut to (IT,Software) jobs. Well I'm hoping that the recession will change the situation. Getting a degree in engineering in India is not at all difficult. There are ready made question-banks available with all 'expected questions', questions asked in previous exams et al. All one needs to do is mug up answers to those questions (again, available ready-made) and clear theory paper. No one really learns to 'use' his/her knowledge.

Parents, students, professors - I think everyone is responsible. The professors won't tell you the practical applications of the concepts you learn in classroom, so the subject gets boring. You all won't believe my own story. During my four year course in Electrical Engineering, I actually opened the electric moter when I was in 3[sup]rd[/sup] year. For the first two years, I was shown the diagrams of the windings, the rotor, the supply. I hope things must have changed by now.
malhotra

malhotra

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
The standard of engineering education in India has in many ways become poorer than even primary school education. There is a desperate need to overhaul the entire system of engineering education in the country. I have discussed the reasons for this in considerable detail in my blog at
Higher Technical Education in India
10 years ago
malhotra
The standard of engineering education in India has in many ways become poorer than even primary school education. There is a desperate need to overhaul the entire system of engineering education in the country. I have discussed the reasons for this in considerable detail in my blog at
Higher Technical Education in India
Sir, before I begin, I thank you for joining CE and being a part of this discussion. We all are proud to have you with us on CE.

I read your post https://highertechnicaleducation.blogspot.com/2008/12/quality-of-engineering-graduates.html and I completely agree with you.

I believe most of the engineering colleges do not mix up with industries. Most of the graduating students have no clue what they might be doing once they join the workforce.

I believe time has come that the whole engineering education system in India needs an upgrade! As CEan CrazyBoy said, how can we play a role in improvement of education? Any ideas, anyone?
shalini_goel14

shalini_goel14

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
I believe instead of giving lot of books to students to study every year and evry semester. Its better to give more and more practical knowledge.

1. Students should be taught only relevant subjects and basic knowledge of other subjects thats all. For relevant subjects only there should be written exams. Other subjects can be cleared by simply giving a viva kind.

2. Labs should be given preference over lectures.Their count should be more than lectures.

3. In labs, students should be allowed to use any chemicals and instruments,softwares with no limit. No restrictions should be there.They should be given a kind of liberty there.

4. At school levels instead of having competitions in which few good students participate, every student's participation should be made compulsory.

Above all, I believe rather than getting bookish knowledge and passing exams with good percentage is the worst part of Our education system. This trend should be change with practical knowlegde gain of every student.
10 years ago
@ Shalini, point #3 would be a costly affair. I doubt whether every engineering college will be able to afford that.

Good points 😀
shalini_goel14

shalini_goel14

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
The_Big_K
@ Shalini, point #3 would be a costly affair. I doubt whether every engineering college will be able to afford that.
If they cannot afford, they should charge extra fees for extra materials. Anyways they already charge so much of fees 😉.
devesh

devesh

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
I think its not only the mentality of the students that should be changed, but the quality and qualification of the professors and lecturers should also be taken into consideration.The main problem lies here only;only the trainer can teach you the right way to think; can enlighten your way of thinking and perceiving thoughts.What todays lecturers are???Either they have spent their whole life mugging up the books and then spit out in the class or they are the just pass out Engineering students.There are no industry experts who can give guest lectures, no interaction with the industry people.Because they dont know what they are headed to and what they are studying are applied in what way in the industry then how they are going to take study practically.It's pretty obvious that they will not be able to think practically.
shalini_goel14

shalini_goel14

Branch Unspecified
10 years ago
devesh
I think its not only the mentality of the students that should be changed, but the quality and qualification of the professors and lecturers should also be taken into consideration.The main problem lies here only;only the trainer can teach you the right way to think; can enlighten your way of thinking and perceiving thoughts.What todays lecturers are???Either they have spent their whole life mugging up the books and then spit out in the class or they are the just pass out Engineering students.There are no industry experts who can give guest lectures, no interaction with the industry people.Because they dont know what they are headed to and what they are studying are applied in what way in the industry then how they are going to take study practically.It's pretty obvious that they will not be able to think practically.
Hi devesh,

I agree with you, somewhere quality of our lecturers and trainers is getting worse day by day.Need to be improved lot. People run only after money and who is suffering ultimately future generation.

Don't worry about interaction with industry people. Now you have joined CE, here you can interact with many and ask whatever you want to ask.

PS: By the way, participate in CE Write to Win contest. Think bit practically yaar 😀
sauravgoswami

sauravgoswami

Electronic
10 years ago
Its good too see,CEans are putting lot of hope on CE,after going through all the the post,let me clear you the facts,there is lack of teachers in India right from schools to top-colleges,over 95% schools and colleges are not able to provide quality training and facilities to their faculty also,tat demoralises the teachers which is reflected on students,what is need of the hour is to provide autonomy to educational institutes and make them earn everything,put restrictions on fee's and stop selling of seats.and fire non-performers and galmourise the profession of teaching.
CIVILPRINCESS

CIVILPRINCESS

Branch Unspecified
8 years ago
i am reviving an old thread....
i thought of starting a new debate on this topic but on searching i came across this thread...so i'm posting here.

the engineering education system in india is totally unfair and useless.😔
i dont know where we will end up with the teaching like these.it is like we have to study some 6 textbooks every semester and depending on how we can remember the text we get graded. it is useless.
when we get placed how will we know what to apply where?
we need to get more practical.i'm totally speaking in the aspect of my engineering discipline.how can we become civil engineers if all that we know is the strength of materials book or survey book by heart. we need to know how we apply and whats the application of the theory in daily life. even the practicals in the course are not taken seriously as a student can easily score at least 85% without much hard work. what we are studying is definitely not engineering.
there definitely needs to be an upgrade in the syllabus and the methodologies of teaching.
gohm

gohm

Branch Unspecified
8 years ago
This is a good debate topic. I don't think this is only unique to India. To me, it seems to stem from the evolution of the scientific and educational systems to a more theoretical approach and that the engineering discipline has grown vastly in popularity and now being applied and used in many areas outside of traditional engineering.
Vega

Vega

Branch Unspecified
8 years ago
Yes, according to me, a huge change is required in the system. Today's engg education system is confined to books and theory. It should be converted to practical oriented. Students should be given a choice to select subjects of their choice and persue them instead of compulsion os passing all the sublects.

Students should be provided with info and assistance for startups and encouraged for same.

Comminication skills, personality dev and language are very important parts of an engineer which are not given much importance in corriculam.
sherya mathur

sherya mathur

Branch Unspecified
8 years ago
yes I think Indian engineering education system needs an upgrade
because Indian universities provides only 20% of practical knowledge to their students
so It should be practical based education in India
4M4N

4M4N

Branch Unspecified
8 years ago
Total upgrade is required in not only engg. edu system but the total education system in india. Mainly syllabus must be changed, for many universities the syllabus is outdated from many years.
ichandu

ichandu

Branch Unspecified
8 years ago
Hi,
friends
I think Indian education have some difficulties.There is not follow the proper way.The western country is follow their proper way in every steps.There need huge changes.Basically, the technique which was very important to update our knowledge.

< no advertising please>
Abhishek.Tony

Abhishek.Tony

Branch Unspecified
8 years ago
Maybe its the job boom in India..
Students easily get jobs even if they don't study and pass by hook or crook.
Who doesn't want an easy job and early money in their hands??
A B.Tech student can get jobs with fat pay packages..
Its only those students' attitude who only study for a job.
Students interested in higher studies only study for knowledge...the rest only for a degree..:-(
ISHAN TOPRE

ISHAN TOPRE

Branch Unspecified
8 years ago
"The whole system needs to be revamped" is a very big task.Its better and easier to focus on self learning.It is on our honesty that we should try to do thigs on our own and not ask for ready made material.It is important for our development.That's what I think.
ise

ise

Branch Unspecified
7 years ago
Yes. Engineers must be exposed to quality Engineering education like in MIT/Stanford/CMU. is trying to achieve this.

philosophy of Engineering Education is to create super engineers who

  1. master not only the science of solutions but also understand the people, issues, and systems they hope to affect.
  2. can think systamatically, analyze quantitatively, learn independently, act responsibly and most importantly communicate ably with all stakeholders.
  3. are true masters of the art and science of problem solving and enjoy the process and results.
Rupam Das

Rupam Das

Branch Unspecified
7 years ago
As par as Course Curriculum is Concerned I do not consider the Course Contents are Inferior in India, the Success of Our Engineers in All the Fields and Dimension are the greatest example of the Fact. However I would like to raise certain points through your Forum

1) There are atleast twice the number of Engineering Seats than the deserving students.
2) Students aggregating bellow 40% in Higher Secondary Manages to get an Engineering Seat.
3) Entire Curriculum is predominantly Theory centric which hardly motivates innovation or imagination
4) I have taught and guided over 10,000 students in my career in their projects including Research Scholars and M. Tech, and I strongly feel there are at least 60% of Engineering Graduates who are not aware of the advancement in technology other than their syllabus. Four years is a big Time, especially in IT. So from the time you enter into engineering till you pass out, there is a full cycle of technology change. Image a student taking admission in 2006, being exposed to .Net 1.1 and when he passes out it is .Net 4.0. So change management is definitely poor.
5) There are fixed set of Lab programs which 70% of the students manages of just mug-up and pass.( Source: My Personal Experience)
6) Most of Colleges and Universities alike never give any emphasis on industry exposure. Hence student do not really know where his learning will come handy. For a simple example while "Linked List" is taught in colleges, a student never knows what is the real use of it other than probably writing couple of programs that are relevant to his theory examination.
But the biggest issue is

Most of the lecturer are from M. Tech background where utmost importance is given to theory ( I am not talking about NIT or IITs). So the Theory culture is passed on to Bachelor degree.

Summery: Yes there is a need of change and that need to be more innovation and practical oriented than what it is today.
Anoop Mathew

Anoop Mathew

Electronics and Communication
7 years ago
Practical knowledge of the students must be enriched. Theory is necessary as well, but it should get in hand with practice of familiarizing and understanding what we learn. For eg: You don't have to lecture a kid how a mobile phone works, just show it to him and he'll learn it quickly.
I feel more workshops should be conducted, and the teachers should be well informed about the subjects they teach.
rajathrao

rajathrao

Branch Unspecified
7 years ago
Its not just engineering, its the entire system that needs to be revamped. !! to keep it short defenitely engg should be taught in a more holistic way so that the engineers can actually be called engineers!
ise

ise

Branch Unspecified
7 years ago
rajathrao
Its not just engineering, its the entire system that needs to be revamped. !! to keep it short defenitely engg should be taught in a more holistic way so that the engineers can actually be called engineers!
You are 100% correct. What the students are getting from higher studies are individual skills which, are relatively easy to acquire. Another set of skills is the ability to use different skills together. Say, one skill might be programming skill, another might be a performance measurement skill, another might be integration skill. Can students in India use those skills together to devise a new system or improve an existing one? Skill integration is something which is not taught as much in engineering in India. People do acquire it with experience, but you acquire it slowly. ISE is trying to accelerate that process so that you acquire it over just a few months.

One more thing is the analytic skill. Analytic skill means the ability to analyse a system to find performance bottlenecks and to see if there are security holes that might permit some problems. This kind of analytic skills are taught somewhat in a typical course. But the combination of integration and analytic skills are of high value to the industry and are not present in sufficient numbers.
Many of the PhDs coming out of universities in India are excellent but they are not necessarily attracted to [product engineering] kind of work. They are attracted to teaching in universities and R&D, and that's what they should be doing. Then there is a large number of B Tech, or even M Tech, who have very useful but narrow skills, and which provide much of the workforce. Between those two are what we call the professional engineers who have analytic skills but there are a lot fewer of them. So there is a demand that has not been met by supply. So standard economics says that you should increase the supply. That is the big opportunity that the ISE programme is directed at doing.
Sarathkumar Chandrasekaran

Sarathkumar Chandrasekaran

Branch Unspecified
5 years ago
Today Hindu newsapaper had a news feed on top engineering colleges in the world and one thing that makes me sad is "Only one college from India in the overall 500 list and placed between 300 - 400.
whats your take on this?
Karthik Vyas

Karthik Vyas

Branch Unspecified
5 years ago
Engineering should be banned for like 5 years in India. In the mean time the whole system and syllabus should be revised as per present market.

Students should also try for some other fields of education. Industries and companies should adopt engineering colleges and let students and faculty get to know whats happening in the market.
Nayan Goenka

Nayan Goenka

Branch Unspecified
5 years ago
Karthik Vyas
Engineering should be banned for like 5 years in India. In the mean time the whole system and syllabus should be revised as per present market.

Please tell me you are kidding.
Prashanth Raj

Prashanth Raj

Branch Unspecified
5 years ago
Kaustubh Katdare
This is becoming a matter of concern for me. Almost every day, without fail, I get emails like this -



The text in quote is an actual email copied from my inbox.

Surprisingly, I have never had such an email from any country other than India. So, is it the casual approach Indian engineering students have towards engineering or is it the education system that needs an upgrade?

My personal opinion is that the students have casual approach towards engineering. Colleges asking students to work on projects is perfectly fine, and required. Engineering is about application of science.

However, the volume of such ready-made help requests amaze me. In past, I've been asked for ready made powerpoint presentations, reports & even the circuits! Our "Project Ideas & Seminar Topics" section was formed only to cater to such requests.

What is your opinion? Do you have any suggestions / solutions?
the reason behind it is the staff even though they are highly experienced they never try to think of giving examples thinking out of the box they always have bookish or casual egs they never give you that certain edge to bring out your view they just think of completing syllabus thoroughly at the most clearing all the doubts and thinking of our future like placements but they will never encourage you in the field of research or trying out something irregular they always want the work first and after that they say its that's it no need for going past the boundary 'coz now you'll get a good job get setteled and happy end . i think they should involve all the budding engineers in live projects not directly but get them there practically so that u can judge how well has student gone through the subject i certainly don't mean to mug up all the contents but a thorough understanding of the concept so that he /she should be able to employ that concept in various fields which will also develop versatility of students in varying or inter relating concepts .so students should try their best to do this as it is like 10-90% possibility in our country . i wish it could happen at least for the coming generations.
mail154

mail154

Branch Unspecified
5 years ago
Education System Needs an Upgrade. Not only Engineering Education. But this is related to engineering, i saying my views on it.

It Is Sad that, There are mails and posts in various forums that asking for a source code of a final year project program or circuit diagram for a device or something related to their departments..I Completely Say it as a problem with the fundamental things.

Firstly,What is the need for giving a final year or minor projects?
Just to Evaluate what a student has taken in to his/her engineering study from the books or practicals,and how he/she uses this to real life situation and deals with it. and how he can contribute to the field.

But What actually what happens is there is a wide open in the bridge between studies and projects or other practically applicable issues. This is the root cause of it. Students should do projects on what they've learnt(not studied) from their engineering life. but they do something which is no where related to it. As a result,there are some 10x10 rooms everywhere named b.tech final year project guidance. It must be applauded if the work happens here is same as mentioned in the boards. But they don't guide students to projects but they get money,do a project give a detailed abstract of the project and even a list of question and answers which may be asked by the external examiner. So what is the job of so called engineer in this? Only One. i.e., transferring money from dad's pocket to the center. 😀

Secondly its all over in local educational forums like the one mentioned by you.
There are two categories in it.

1)I'm __________ final year _______ please send me a zip file with project abstract,source code,possible viva questions and other details? my mail id is _____________

2)Could you tell me whats the simplest project an ____student can submit? i am interested in ________ could u pour in all details to my mail?



Both were useless.. I Many times replied to such forums that please tell the college name i will present it for u.

That's a problem with the education. This happens even in,level of paper presentation and note taking too!!.

I Personally believe that this all happens starts with to mucher numbers and uninterested candidates. Too Much of anything is good for nothing. Engineering is no more a worthy degree as it was in the last decade. and i believe the best of best only should be provided a opportunity.

Believe me Some colleges say buy from these centres they do good projects. Quality is Severely affected by the present day quantity. Engineering Education definitely needs a version 2.0 and constant updation.
Sahithi Pallavi

Sahithi Pallavi

Computer Science
5 years ago
I didn't go through the above posts, but considering the title of the thread I just want to say few points.
Definitely Indian Education system is not proper enough. Few changes I would like to have -
1. Medical Education should not be so costly as like now and It should also encourage the gross root level students.
2. Should also concentrate on skills apart from Education.
3. Should take care about Employment.
4. Make the norms of UGC and AICTE strict.
5. Monitor the Colleges and Universtities.
6. Should take care of faculty, professors etc.
7. Should take care of Fees, entrance exams etc.
8. Highlight the other areas of Education like R & D, S & T, Agriculture, Financial Devt, Nano Tech, Artificial Intelligence, cutting edge technologies, Intl laws etc to the gross root level other than Engineering and Medicine.

and many more..
Jeffrey Arulraj

Jeffrey Arulraj

Electronics and Communication
5 years ago
When craze for a particular branch is reduced there can be uniform development in par with the trends going in the world.

Our nation of 120 Billion is too large to support change in the long run and the change to be implemented to all the 120 billion is literally not possible if all crowd a branch.

PS How many are truly learning only a few. To the learner even this syllabus is more than enough to survive. To the Whiner this syllabi is nothing

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