Changes You Propose To Current Education System

Replies

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  Kaustubh Katdare

  aarthivg

  whats can be the changes in present education system in engineering field?

  The current education system is aimed at creating educated clerks. I recommend completely rejecting the system and adopting the 'Gurukul' system for education.
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  aarthivg

  The_Big_K

  The current education system is aimed at creating educated clerks. I recommend completely rejecting the system and adopting the 'Gurukul' system for education.

  rite, but i strongly believe that practical knowledge has to be developed
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  Kaustubh Katdare

  aarthivg

  rite, but i strongly believe that practical knowledge has to be developed

  The Gurukul system that I'm proposing actually stresses more on practical knowledge than just mugging up theory. Plus, it's very different from the current education system. The system would grow students to have the knowledge of diverse topics right from economics to medicine to metallurgy.
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  Kaustubh Katdare

  Even with the current education system, I'd want following to be taught -
  
  1. Basic mathematics & science : about the things that we use in everyday life.
  
  2. Basic medicine, health.
  
  3. Basic finance.
  
  4. Basic knowledge of the things around us.
  
  5. Basic law & rights.
  
  8. Basic communication
  
  9. Basic cooking (region specific)
  
  10. 3 Languages of choice.
• 

  aarthivg

  The_Big_K

  Even with the current education system, I'd want following to be taught -
  
  1. Basic mathematics & science : about the things that we use in everyday life.
  
  2. Basic medicine, health.
  
  3. Basic finance.
  
  4. Basic knowledge of the things around us.
  
  5. Basic law & rights.
  
  8. Basic communication
  
  9. Basic cooking (region specific)
  
  10. 3 Languages of choice.

  the problem over here is there is no adequate staff to teach on these topics.
  for example, there was an elective paper for me named " robotics ", but our college dint give us permission for that paper. we have to read the same old papers😔
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  Kaustubh Katdare

  aarthivg

  the problem over here is there is no adequate staff to teach on these topics.
  for example, there was an elective paper for me named " robotics ", but our college dint give us permission for that paper. we have to read the same old papers😔

  We're just discussing the changes, right? Implementing them is challenge #2.
• 

  aarthivg

  The_Big_K

  We're just discussing the changes, right? Implementing them is challenge #2.

  big challenge
• 

  circularsquare

  I propose two changes mainly :-
  
  1)Make examinations optional at all stages in the school level.
  Students should be allowed to pick those subjects which interest them as exam subjects.
  
  In today's scenario if a student aspires to be a mathematician from the age of 12 years , he still has to mug up social sciences. This , I feel , kills the unadulterated mathematician in him.
  India almost killed the mathematician in the most genius mathematician India has produced till date - Srinivasa Ramanujan because - he had not passed in English examination in 10th standard. It was only because G H Hardy an English mathematician spotted his talent that his talent could be showcased to the world.
  That year was early 1900s and system of education was that of British but little has changed in our system post independence. (Srinivasa Ramanujan Cite Ref 25)
  
  All subjects should be taught in curriculum and attendance of 70-80 % should be required to pass ,only exams should be optional. That way each student will have a level of awareness about every subject . But he/she could focus the on ones to their liking.
  
  There could be entrance exams for colleges/jobs or not. That should be left to the colleges/jobs to decide.
  Further , for certain subjects which are problem based ,exams should be open book exams.
  
  2) Emphasis on practical knowledge should be encouraged.We don't want something like following to happen :-
  
  
  source : - #-Link-Snipped-#
• 

  Dancer_Engineer

  @circularsquare,
  I strongly agree with you on the second point, but I totally disagree with the first point. 😀
  
  
  

  circularsquare

  In today's scenario if a student aspires to be a mathematician from the age of 12 years , he still has to mug up social sciences. This , I feel , kills the unadulterated mathematician in him.

  Taking your example here. A student / child at the age of 12 will have different interest and comfort level and an adult at the age of 24 will have different interests and a different comfort zone.
  As a child grows up, he is taught the various subjects so that he is aware of the different aspects of the World. If he is only taught Mathematics and learns only that one particular subject and takes only that one exam, he has only one choice in his entire life to go for. And focusing only on one subject will leave him with zero knowledge of the Geography, History, Physics, Chemistry, etc.
• 

  circularsquare

  Dancer_Engineer

  @circularsquare,
  If he is only taught Mathematics and learns only that one particular subject and takes only that one exam, he has only one choice in his entire life to go for. And focusing only on one subject will leave him with zero knowledge of the Geography, History, Physics, Chemistry, etc.

  There has been a misunderstanding which needs to be cleared at the outset.
  
  This is what I said :-
  
  

  circularsquare

  All subjects should be taught in curriculum and attendance of 70-80 % should be required to pass ,only exams should be optional. That way each student will have a level of awareness about every subject . But he/she could focus the on ones to their liking.

  
  I have never said that the other subjects should not be taught at all. I am saying keep an attendance level of 70-80% compulsory for all the subjects. As the year progresses the child can tell which subjects he/she is good at. Let the examination forms be filled at the end of the year.
  There are two kinds of students. One knows from a very young age what he/she wishes to become in life. The other is unsure about this. My proposed change would of course be useful to the first type of student.But it would also be helpful to the other one. See , during the year there won't be pressures of examination. And in this pressure free environment , the unsure student will be in a better position to get to know which subjects he/she likes the most. As the year ends he/she can choose his/her favorite subjects for exam.
  You may say that one year is not sufficient for deciding. I most certainly agree, in this case , the student can sit for all the exams.In the next year, he/she could perhaps be more picky in the subjects if he/she realises what he/she is good at.
  Even in next year , if he/she is unsure he/she can again sit for all exams.
  
  I have never said 'ban examinations'. I said , make them optional. This method is a superset of the current one where each and every student has to sit for all the exams no matter what.
  
  For this method to succeed, higher education institutes and employees should also co-operate. An engineering company should only look at those subject marks which really matter for engineering.
  
  CBSE has started this process. But I think they have only done so for board exams. My suggestion is to do so for all the standards. Plus I don't know if they are allowing the students to choose which subjects they like. My whole point is that the students should be given an option as to which subjects they want to focus on.
• 

  Dancer_Engineer

  circularsquare

  All subjects should be taught in curriculum and attendance of 70-80 % should be required to pass ,only exams should be optional. That way each student will have a level of awareness about every subject . But he/she could focus the on ones to their liking.

  Ok, I think I didn't read this in your earlier post. 😐 ☕
  

  circularsquare

  My suggestion is to do so for all the standards.

  Is it justifiable to allow a 1st / 2nd / 3rd grade student (6-10 years old) to chose his educational subjects at such a tender age? Would parents allow their kids to exercise decision making regarding their education at a tender age?
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  circularsquare

  Dancer_Engineer

  Ok, I think I didn't read this in your earlier post. 😐 ☕
  Is it justifiable to allow a 1st / 2nd / 3rd grade student (6-10 years old) to chose his educational subjects at such a tender age? Would parents allow their kids to exercise decision making regarding their education at a tender age?

  Why not ? In fact for students in primary school, exams should be not there at all . The first 4-5 years of education should be spent in generating interest in students.They should be allowed to ask questions , not made to sit in exams and vomit mugged up answers. Stephen Hawking said that every children has the habit of asking questions at a tender age , scientists are those people who haven't let this childhood habit die.
  
  But still if examination is optional there won't be an issue.
  My whole point is exams usually end up making stuff boring. Any student will have 2-3 subjects which match his/her passion. For such subjects the student will enjoy writing exams as well. But there are 'fringe subjects' for every person . For instance , a budding scientist may not actually hate history but he/she will end up losing interest because of the exam factor. If there is no pressure to give an exam such a student will imbibe more from such 'fringe subjects'.
  
  
  The entire trouble in our country is because parents don't give enough academic freedom to their children. Right from childhood we are being spoon fed. This habit continues in adulthood . You will notice that 90% engineers in India do their project work by copying ideas from internet. This is because majority of them have grown up on spoon feeding and are now in a branch which is not necessarily of their liking. Hence majority of them end up as MBAs.
• 

  Dancer_Engineer

  circularsquare

  Why not ? In fact for students in primary school, exams should be not there at all . The first 4-5 years of education should be spent in generating interest in students.They should be allowed to ask questions , not made to sit in exams and vomit mugged up answers.

  Totally convinced! 😀
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  Dancer_Engineer

  I saw this particular advertisement on Television, #-Link-Snipped-#:
  
  
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  Kaustubh Katdare

  Dancer_Engineer

  I saw this particular advertisement on Television, #-Link-Snipped-#:
  
  

  I'm more of an extremist. I think the whole concept of 'school' needs to be changed; not the medium by which the same education is delivered.
• 

  Dancer_Engineer

  The_Big_K

  I'm more of an extremist. I think the whole concept of 'school' needs to be changed; not the medium by which the same education is delivered.

  I agree! But the change has to start somewhere in someway. Slowly it might bring out the drastic changes, which will benefit the next generation. Hopefully!
• 

  circularsquare

  The_Big_K

  I'm more of an extremist. I think the whole concept of 'school' needs to be changed; not the medium by which the same education is delivered.

  Perhaps you want something on the lines of Shantiniketan as Rabindranath Tagore had envisaged .
  That was really something beautiful. Gurudev used to teach his students in the openings of a forest in the midst of mother nature. We were taught 4 seasons in our textbooks , his students used to actually witness what the 4 seasons meant.
  
  wikipedia :-
  

  It was here that Rabindranath Tagore started Patha Bhavana, the school of his ideals, whose central premise was that learning in a natural environment would be more enjoyable and fruitful.

  Santiniketan History
  
  It is sad to note , that his vision hasn't been maintained by current administrators of the institute.
  
  Tagore's views on education :-
  #-Link-Snipped-#
  An excerpt from above link. I quote Rabindranath Tagore :-
  

  We have come to this world to accept it, not merely to know it. We may become powerful by knowledge, but we attain fullness by sympathy. The highest education is that which does not merely give us information but makes our life in harmony with all existence. But we find that this education of sympathy is not only systematically ignored in schools, but it is severely repressed. From our very childhood habits are formed and knowledge is imparted in such a manner that our life is weaned away from nature and our mind and the world are set in opposition from the beginning of our days. Thus the greatest of educations for which we came prepared is neglected, and we are made to lose our world to find a bagful of information instead. We rob the child of his earth to teach him geography, of language to teach him grammar. His hunger is for the Epic, but he is supplied with chronicles of facts and dates...Child-nature protests against such calamity with all its power of suffering, subdued at last into silence by punishment.

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  Kaustubh Katdare

  Well, let me admit - my ideas aren't fully developed yet and I haven't given them much of thought. But from the tits and bits of information I've collected from different sources over the past few months confirm that the current education system followed all over the world needs to be changed.
  
  The 'Gurukul' type of system and delivery of knowledge seems to be most ideal. Why? Because it did deliver great results in the past.
• 

  circularsquare

  The_Big_K

  Well, let me admit - my ideas aren't fully developed yet and I haven't given them much of thought. But from the tits and bits of information I've collected from different sources over the past few months confirm that the current education system followed all over the world needs to be changed.
  
  The 'Gurukul' type of system and delivery of knowledge seems to be most ideal. Why? Because it did deliver great results in the past.

  You could say that Shantiniketan was a sort of Gurukul in the days of Rabindranath Tagore.
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  Kaustubh Katdare

  circularsquare

  You could say that Shantiniketan was a sort of Gurukul in the days of Rabindranath Tagore.

  That's true. There were no 'schools' before the Brits invaded. Anyway, I'm for scrapping all the irrelevant subjects and focusing about the things that we use/experience about us.
• 

  circularsquare

  The_Big_K

  That's true. There were no 'schools' before the Brits invaded. Anyway, I'm for scrapping all the irrelevant subjects and focusing about the things that we use/experience about us.

  And the funny thing is the British people never really used the system they imposed on us. In any case, it is not present in their country now. But we Indians always hate change.
  
  I don't understand why students are made to wear "uniforms" . Isn't it symbolically true. The present schooling removes individuality from the students and makes them 'uniform' both in thought and dress. 👎
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  circularsquare

  And the funny thing is the British people never really used the system they imposed on us. In any case, it is not present in their country now. But we Indians always hate change.
  
  I don't understand why students are made to wear "uniforms" . Isn't it symbolically true. The present schooling removes individuality from the students and makes them 'uniform' both in thought and dress. 👎

  Hehe. If you read MacCaulay's speech, it clearly mentions that he wanted to impose the new education system to destroy the established systems. Just like they opened liquor shops in India starting with Calcutta. Once the back-bone is destroyed; the body can't stand. Ever.
• 

  circularsquare

  Macaulay wanted cheap labour and he got it. But the fault lies squarely with us Indians. We have had 64 years independence. Why haven't we waken up still.
  Today , I saw news of a student in Chennai killing his teacher with his knife . I was very depressed by that news. Really , the idea of education has been distorted and perverted in such cases. And to think of it , we used to chant verses such as
  
  

  Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu, Guru Devo Maheshwara. Guru Sakshath Parambrahma, Tasmai Shri Gurave Namaha. (tr: Guru is the creator Brahma, Guru is the preserver Vishnu, Guru is the destroyer Shiva. Guru is directly the supreme spirit — I offer my salutations to this Guru.)

  
  

  The_Big_K

  Hehe. If you read MacCaulay's speech, it clearly mentions that he wanted to impose the new education system to destroy the established systems. Just like they opened liquor shops in India starting with Calcutta. Once the back-bone is destroyed; the body can't stand. Ever.

  P.S :- There is some confusion regards to Macaulay's speech given in British Parliament. It seems he didn't really think Indian culture was great. He was only trying to uplift us. Clearly he was wrong in his assumptions and solutions . But he didn't want to destroy our backbone as such , because he didn't think we had any.
  The speech which he gave in British Parliament actually never happened.
  
  

  “Macaulay had no intention whatsoever to “break the very backbone of India”, but was convinced that Indians (both Hindus & Muslims) were steeped in hopeless superstition, and that English education was the only way to bring them out of this dark stagnation. That was the usual colonial conceit, but he sincerely wanted to help Indians (which goes to show that sincerity is good only if enlightened !)”

  source :- Clearing the dust off Macaulay's "famous quote" - || Satyameva Jayate ||
  
  I am not saying what Macaulay did was right , his system was one of the worst things to happen to India. Only that he felt it was better than what we had. And of course , it would help manufacture clerks.
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  Kaustubh Katdare

  Not sure. Most of my understanding about it is from Rajiv Dixit's lectures (available on YouTube). Yes, the system has been designed to produce clerks and not the all rounders who are capable of selecting specializations in sync with their own interests & passions.
  
  Continuing with the topic; here's an interesting article on Wikipedia: Vaimanika Shastra - talks about the flying technology.
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  circularsquare

  The_Big_K

  Not sure. Most of my understanding about it is from Rajiv Dixit's lectures (available on YouTube). Yes, the system has been designed to produce clerks and not the all rounders who are capable of selecting specializations in sync with their own interests & passions.
  
  Continuing with the topic; here's an interesting article on Wikipedia: Vaimanika Shastra - talks about the flying technology.

  The wikipedia article mentions that the designs are aeronautically unfeasible . This is according to a study conducted by IISc Bangalore in 1974.
  
  I think we will have to dismiss Vaimanika Shastra as mumbo jumbo because of lack of evidence. The same applies to nuclear weapons such as Brahmastra and so on. There is no scientific evidence that we had developed such things.
  
  This is not to say our civilization wasn't cool. Far from it. What happens in some cases that some genuinely patriotic Indians get too carried away. I personally feel ancient Indians have enough achievements for which evidence exists for which we can be proud of.
  
  Some examples include - literature such as Mahabharata , Ramayana ; philosophies such as Upanishadas ; poets such as Kalidasa ; unknown sculptors who built magnificent temples all over India ; mathematicians such as Aryabhatta ,Varahamihira , Brahmagupta ; doctors such as Sushruta.And finally men of strong character in all ages - Buddha , Mahavira , Shankaracharya , Madhavacharya , Vivekananda , Gandhi , the list is endless.
  
  We do our ancestors a disservice by not sticking to sincerity and by attributing them imaginary achievements (imaginary because of lack of evidence ,nothing else) ; or by focusing on those ancient sciences which don't stand the test of modern science such as Astrology and other psychic mumbo jumbo.
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  Kaustubh Katdare

  Nope, not getting carried away 😀 , just that the evidences were destroyed. I'm on my hunt for the truth and surprisingly; it's like a black hole (just sucks you in!). I care a damn what IISc says; I'm sure they'd have called the TV 'unfeasible' because there was no evidence that'd point to the possibility of remote viewing.
  
  My grandpa would even say that the history being taught to Indians has been what the Brits wanted the Indians to know (thanks to the education system). Makes perfect sense. His own theories were (almost) flawless and none of them really matched with what's written in books.
  
  Sticking back to the topic: We all acknowledge that the present education system needs to be changed. Let's get back to the changes that we all propose to it.
  
  PS: For the discussions on Ancient Indian Technology; I'm open to private conversations. 😀
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  PraveenKumar Purushothaman

  The short and simple answer would be the school, which is featured in 3 Idiots by Aamir Khan, is the best school! 😀