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Prady
Prady • Jun 22, 2008

CEdoot - Reincarnation of CE-im

Visit: https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/839-ce-project-ce-messenger-now-called-ce-im.html


CEdoot​
[​IMG]


CEdoot-the CE Messenger, was unanimously voted as one of the must start services by/for/from CE in the first ever CE meet on June 21, 2008. The concept is based on the much needed requirement of real time accessibility of CE members to answer queries posted in different CE forums. Attendees registered their expectations from the CEdoot service. Based on the discussion and expectations, it was clear that we are looking forward to a service similar to instant messengers like AOL messenger, Yahoo messenger, Windows Live messenger etc. with CE touch. This post is intended towards listing the feature set for the CEdoot. I am going to divide feature set into two categories; one with the basic features that I know is available with the existing messenger services and the other with the CE specific requirements.

Generic:

1. Instant Messaging: Send text messages in real-time to any registered CE member (online/offline).
2. IM Conferencing: Instant message with many CE members at once in a conference room.
3. File Transfer: Send files instantly to a CE member while you IM.
4. Contact Search Bar: Quickly find a contact to IM.

Specific:

1. CE search bar: The CEdoot GUI should have a search bar for searching the contents on CE.
2. CE alerts: Get notified about new posts on CE when logged in to CEdoot. CE members can discuss any of the posts online on one-on-one chat basis or in conferencing mode and once the conversation ends the chat transcript can be saved as comments on the post in the CE.
3. CE quick query forums (subscription mode): A set of quick query forums should be available for subscription to CE members over CEdoot e.g. java developers, civil engineers, chillax etc. CEdoot should have a quick query board in the GUI wherein the queries posted in the subscribed quick query forums should be displayed. CE member can choose to answer the queries online on one-on-one chat basis or in conferencing mode and once the conversation ends the complete chat transcript can be saved as a new post under quick query forums in CE. Any subsequent conversation on the query-turned-post should be treated as comments in the CE.
4. CE quick query forums (surfing mode): Members should also have the facility to view and answer queries posted in the other forums (forums not subscribed by the CE member) on demand. Basically, the quick query board can be made to work in two different modes mentioned in points 3 and 4.

I hope we will contribute to this initiative in the form of more feature requests or queries on the above feature set and help refine the concept. Also, it will be good to have a list of available open-source projects for the purpose which can be used by CE for no monetary costs.

Comments waited.

A few in context links that the techies who already have started thinking of the architecture and implementation can visit:

1.https://docs.sun.com/source/819-0063/im-intro.html
2.https://docs.sun.com/source/819-0063/im-architecture.html
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Jun 22, 2008
That was quick, Prady 😁

CS/IT Gods - Let's get this done!
Alright, the project is back! Good. Nice idea regarding the quick query forums and such. Looks like theres quite a number of features in the client. Are we still following the p2p option, or do we need to utilize a web and a directory server?

by the way, what does "doot" mean here? Because I checked the urban dictionary online, and quite shocked with possible meanings.. lol! Perhaps we should modify it a little.. *ahem*
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Jun 22, 2008
Looks like Prady has adopted a Hindi-Word. 'Doot' in Hindi (or Sanskrit too? maybe) means 'The Messenger'. Let's not worry about the name of the messenger. Probably, 'Doot' can be the code-name for the project πŸ˜‰
just2rock
just2rock • Jun 22, 2008
Gr8! to hear that all of my suggestions to Pradeep while my interview for Know your CE'an is working atlast...we will surely be on the top once all those ..becomes reality! i promise u all 😁
The_Big_K
Looks like Prady has adopted a Hindi-Word. 'Doot' in Hindi (or Sanskrit too? maybe) means 'The Messenger'. Let's not worry about the name of the messenger. Probably, 'Doot' can be the code-name for the project πŸ˜‰
Ah, I see! That makes sense, hehe πŸ˜€

But to avoid an international misunderstanding incident (you'll understand me 100% if you come across the urban online dictionary) lets tweak it a little teeny bit πŸ˜‰
raj87verma88
raj87verma88 • Jun 22, 2008
@J2R: Its Prateek J2R.
@Prady: The project seems to look good on paper. Now we have to make it even better.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Jun 22, 2008
Let's wait for Mayank & Pradeep's update on the same. Let's first finalize on the features, and get started.
Prady
Prady • Jun 23, 2008
ash
Are we still following the p2p option, or do we need to utilize a web and a directory server?
Even for p2p, I believe we will require some kind of registrar server, somewhere; may be on one of the ever live clients itself.

It's too early to talk on this stuff. We can decide upon the architecture once we finalize on the "must implement" features.

ash
by the way, what does "doot" mean here? Because I checked the urban dictionary online, and quite shocked with possible meanings.. lol! Perhaps we should modify it a little.
You are right, probably we need to change it for the larger community. I should have checked urban dictionary. Thanks for pointing out...πŸ˜€
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Jun 23, 2008
Hey good to see quick replies to this thread. Doot is a good name, till the beta version is rolled out. If there is a google, if there is a zattoo, there can be a doot too. Lets call it a "project Doot"

One or two things from me:
1. We need to have the classification of engineering branches and expertise on the query forum. For that we will have to add few fields in the personal information tab on the profile section. Right now no one is posting their expertise and years of experience in their profile. This will help in a way that suppose I have a doubt in some topic on pollutions, I could find the current online or most popular chemical or environmental engineer whom I can post a query. Alternatively, as prady had suggested, if I'm an expert in 'XYZ', I will get a scrolling marque of latest queries on my forum. I'm only highlighting Prady's point.

2. Lets not limit the search engine to CE. we can have a customized google search engine too.

3. The query forum can be open to public. People can see the queries, the number of experts, their nicknames but not the answers. Neither can they contact them directly, unless they register.

4. Some thing you all forgot is developing the invite members thread.

Gee... there are so many things to talk.
mayurpathak
Hey good to see quick replies to this thread. Doot is a good name, till the beta version is rolled out. If there is a google, if there is a zattoo, there can be a doot too. Lets call it a "project Doot"

One or two things from me:
1. We need to have the classification of engineering branches and expertise on the query forum. For that we will have to add few fields in the personal information tab on the profile section. Right now no one is posting their expertise and years of experience in their profile. This will help in a way that suppose I have a doubt in some topic on pollutions, I could find the current online or most popular chemical or environmental engineer whom I can post a query. Alternatively, as prady had suggested, if I'm an expert in 'XYZ', I will get a scrolling marque of latest queries on my forum. I'm only highlighting Prady's point.

2. Lets not limit the search engine to CE. we can have a customized google search engine too.

3. The query forum can be open to public. People can see the queries, the number of experts, their nicknames but not the answers. Neither can they contact them directly, unless they register.

4. Some thing you all forgot is developing the invite members thread.

Gee... there are so many things to talk.
My friend, you are really insistent on that code name, eh? lol!

For point number 1, I'm not really too sure. Remember, we want to give everyone a chance to respond to a specific question, regardless of their discipline or years of experience. As long as the person posts in the correct sections, the "experts" of the field will be able to respond to it, and at the same time, others who are subscribed to the sections well be notified of the posting as well.

Thinking about the "quick query" feature:

Suppose someone does ask a question, and other CE member engages with a one-on-one conversation. This goes on for about 30 mins, and other CE member joins in. Will the third person be able to view the chat transcript history? Will it be dynamically updated as the convo continues? So far, if you join group conversations in Yahoo or IM, a new invitee would be unaware of what was discussed before.

Also, will there be a risk of duplicated roles with the quick query forum and the rest of the forums? Or do they coexist together (ie. threads that were discussed through the IM will have a label on it)?
Prady
Prady • Jun 23, 2008
ash
Thinking about the "quick query" feature:

Suppose someone does ask a question, and other CE member engages with a one-on-one conversation. This goes on for about 30 mins, and other CE member joins in. Will the third person be able to view the chat transcript history? Will it be dynamically updated as the convo continues? So far, if you join group conversations in Yahoo or IM, a new invitee would be unaware of what was discussed before.
I think, the third person should be allowed to view the chat transcript. Let's list this under "good to have" features. I think we can do without this in the begining.

ash
Also, will there be a risk of duplicated roles with the quick query forum and the rest of the forums? Or do they coexist together (ie. threads that were discussed through the IM will have a label on it)?
Things might be confusing for the members if they co-exist. We need to put some check for duplication. We can have these roles manually moderated in the begining till the time we have some automation in place.

Labelling is a good idea, even if we use it just for the sake of collecting some statistics rather than checking duplication.
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Jun 23, 2008
ash
For point number 1, I'm not really too sure. Remember, we want to give everyone a chance to respond to a specific question, regardless of their discipline or years of experience. As long as the person posts in the correct sections, the "experts" of the field will be able to respond to it, and at the same time, others who are subscribed to the sections well be notified of the posting as well.
Yes I agree. But for some one to search the experts, how is he supposed to know whom to contact? And again, getting notifications via mail will not serve much purpose. Even now we get notifications. But the help doesn't come on a real time. Just posting the query on the correct section will not help. We will have to give the user a choice to send his query either as an off line message or as a mail to the experts of his choice. So for him to make a choice, we will need to have the details about expertise and experience. For ex. no body knows you can build a robot ;-) So if you put it in your profile, people will know whom to contact 😁
mayurpathak
Yes I agree. But for some one to search the experts, how is he supposed to know whom to contact? And again, getting notifications via mail will not serve much purpose. Even now we get notifications. But the help doesn't come on a real time. Just posting the query on the correct section will not help. We will have to give the user a choice to send his query either as an off line message or as a mail to the experts of his choice. So for him to make a choice, we will need to have the details about expertise and experience. For ex. no body knows you can build a robot ;-) So if you put it in your profile, people will know whom to contact 😁
Ah yes, thats an interesting point! πŸ˜€

However, to involve interaction and participation, one should not search for the experts for help.. but the experts should search to help the one πŸ˜‰

Its more flexible that way too. Lets say one asks a question regarding robotics. This question should be like a "beacon", and any experts online will receive notice about it. Those members who choose to receive "robotics" questions will also be notified. So when the question pops up, the experts who are available and know how to answer the question with select it and enter the "chat" mode (either one-on-one or group mode). You'll end up with the asker, and interesting experts who are willing to answer the question.

The fact that we have thousands of members will make it quite hard for the asker to choose a specific few to ask. If I did put "Robotics" in my profile, and someone asks me about applications of Theory of Machines in robotics, I would be like.. "Sorry, can't help you. πŸ˜” I only know how to use Microcontrollers and such. Please ask another expert. Perhaps Expert A?"

What problems to do you see here?
1. I was not able to help, and the asker would have to find others to ask.
2. I do not know EVERY robotic expert who is able to answer that query successfully. Expert A may know, or he may not. If not, the search goes on.
3. If there indeed was a "search" option for finding experts, what is the criteria to choose the expert(s)? Are we to segregate members by number of posts, number of years of experience, etc?
4. If I was offline, I might be busy with some work.. so I would not be able to respond to the question. The asker would feel ignored and frustrated, and will think I never help people *sniff*

If all the experts see the questions that are related to their interests, only they know themselves if they can help. I think instead of relying on profile information, we should leave it to CE Members to choose what types of disciplines and trades that interest them, and receive those prompts. Kind of like how things are now with the forums.

Okay, thats it for now. I hope I make sense πŸ˜›
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Jun 23, 2008
Ah! now I understand your point. Probably we are putting the same point forward, but in different forms. I can visualize the IM in front of me and I'm just putting the points here, as in the functionalities that I can see.

Your point 3 and 4 are valid. Probably we need more brainstorming. Can we have a conference call for a discussion on one of the weekends? I can set up.
just2rock
just2rock • Jun 23, 2008
raj87verma88
@J2R: Its Prateek J2R.



so many to remeber...thanxπŸ˜’
mayurpathak
Ah! now I understand your point. Probably we are putting the same point forward, but in different forms. I can visualize the IM in front of me and I'm just putting the points here, as in the functionalities that I can see.

Your point 3 and 4 are valid. Probably we need more brainstorming. Can we have a conference call for a discussion on one of the weekends? I can set up.
Haha, yea! Maybe you should do a rough design of the GUI on MS Paint or Inkscape (or just on paper). Thats a good way to see what functions are needed to do what, etc, without the need to know the technical details. Of course, some purists might disagree with that approach πŸ˜›

How about we have an online conference this Saturday or the next? We can have a follow up meeting for all the points that have been discussed in the CE Meet.

Anywayz, we should probably list down objectives and milestones for this project soon. As Prady has mentioned, a case study of existing open source clients would be great for research!
Well CEdoot is a nice concept,afterreading it members of CE will regularly updated about the happenings in CE,watever I think we should allow push-mail services for CEans to be connected even on the move vis thier cell-phone!!!
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Jun 24, 2008
22nd June to 24th June...4 days and so much discussion! It is going forward!

I am subscribing to this thread...no ideas for now though. Ash, Mayur had a good point on Query and 'Beacon' method..."just post your questions ... and someone will answer it."

We may need good filtering for it too, dont want 10 messages on ""hai please can you suggest a good seminar topic" to flood my IM.


===EDIT===

Updated CE Lab CE-IM page (main page for CE Labs: celab.tk) :

https://sites.google.com/a/crazyengineers.com/ce-lab-projects/ce-im

Word to word copy...

Ash, is it possible to give prady access to edit it? by giving @crazyengineers.com (google) account?

====EDIT 2 Important===

As for publishing our own software like CE-IM or CE-something....we can use sourceforge OR Google Code.

I have made a test Google code page which you may/may not like...

The test page has:

1. Main Project page
2. Download section
3. A Wiki section
4. Issue tracking or bug tracking
5. Source Code display
6. Developers

A file is uploaded by me there. Download it for a surprise! It is a CE Installation package to distribute our programs, distributing on linux will be looked at later.
Has been tested on Vista and looking for results on other windows platforms

cecode - Google Code

Give feedback so we know what we really want.
Prady
Prady • Jun 27, 2008
CE-IM project page by Varun.

It looks great https://sites.google.com/a/crazyengineers.com/ce-lab-projects/ce-im
Oh, only Biggie can give those @crayzengineers.com addresses. I was thinking we should create a new role on CE called "Project leaders", so they can have those addresses to access the CE Lab site (or create more GS sites). Lets see what Biggie thinks when the website revamp is complete πŸ˜€

Btw guys, please don't forget to read Desijay's previous post. Lots of valuable information!
https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/398-ce-project-related-ideas-discussions-2.html#post4035
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Jun 27, 2008
Varun, excellent work. Although I'm a null when it comes to software programming, I'm involved in making business cases. So I have a tiny winy bit idea about what you guys discuss here. Just one question, any reason for selecting python? Wiki suggested that google, Youtube et all use it. Is it easier? The reason I'm asking is because we might have general CEans wanting to work on this project later on. So we should not come to a situation where people are turned down because they don't know python.

Anyway, Ash regarding your query about email ids. There is no harm in giving email ids to every one. The only issue is currently they are limited in number. We are exploring possibility of coming up with '.org' mail ids. We will surely give it away then on. As of now, all those necessarily require the email ids will be given.
Yep, its only the limited number that I'm worried about, since we have thousands of members! Such scarcity, haha. Looking forward for the .org address. Lots of CEans would appreciated it for sure!

Python is only an option. However, it is a much easier language to learn than C, C++ and Java. It'll allow non-Computer members to contribute as well after a little practice. Its also highly portable, meaning Python can be used in many places. That flexibility is quite useful. Of course, those hardcore programmers can still stick to C and the like. Python coexists with them.

... so folks, don't be scared of it. Doesn't bite! πŸ˜‰
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Jun 27, 2008
@Mayur: Thanks for your feedback! Well, Python is not selected for any one project in particular. The installation I gave on cecode (Google Code space) is an example of how we can/might publish our finished work (the installation process and method and logo *wink*), just the demo program was written in Python. CE-IM can be any lang preferred by its head developer (Java/C/C++/etc...).

And dont worry if you aint familier with programing, we need common sense contribution by common users of the program too! πŸ˜€ The end users are the ones who will use CE-IM.

@Prady: Thanks dude, its like an archiver for this project documenting everything technical and stuff. As for accounts with open source project hosting like sourcefourge and google code, i'd recommend it but in the end its the choice of the project head (I aint programing this!... CE-IM is a big project.)

@Ash: You are our boss in managing the accounts 😁, You can request him for user email ID's and make it easier, for those who are contributing and want to "edit" and "add" pro actively. (We gotta look for some way...)


So who is and when are we starting the CE-IM?
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Jun 27, 2008
Email IDs won't be a problem for those who are seriously willing to work on the project. Ash, could you please give me the list of CEans who need a CE Mail ID?

[PS: We'll soon release crazyengineers.org email ids for everyone.]
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Jun 27, 2008
xheavenlyx
@Mayur: T
And dont worry if you aint familiar with programing, we need common sense contribution by common users of the program too! πŸ˜€ The end users are the ones who will use CE-IM.
He he... Don't worry about common sense. I have been dealing with Biggie for too long now.😎 I have common sense in abundance. Thats the only thing you need with him. πŸ˜‰

Well regarding the CE-IM project, somebody has to hone the project manager responsibility. And xHx, there is no stepping out for you by the way. Of course prady is there too. Can we decide between you, prady and ash? :rollπŸ˜”Sorry for keeping out Mayank and pradeepagrawal because CE is not accessible in their offices) 😑
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Jun 27, 2008
PradeepAgrawal can access through CE. Mayank should get CE access soon. Now, we need volunteers to take care of this project. Volunteers, anyone?

I guess let's get started with the coading part - other things will evolve. This is of course not a project that's going to be executed the way its done in 'professional organizations'.

Oh, are we forgetting Kidakaka? Kidakaka - where are you? πŸ˜€
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Jun 28, 2008
The_Big_K
PradeepAgrawal can access through CE. Mayank should get CE access soon. Now, we need volunteers to take care of this project. Volunteers, anyone?
Lets post an announcement on the front page.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Jun 28, 2008
Yes, that's not a problem. However, we need to have some development first. The core members who're thinking of developing CE should come up with something - so that others can join in to develop it further.

That's what I believe. All we have for now is just a discussion thread. Mayur - we can even announce this through our newsletter to ensure maximum reach. However, we need to have 'something' in place!

[Otherwise, I fear, the 'too many cooks' thing will happen]
In line with the "too many cooks", can't really list anyone yet until they are keen to volunteer! We'd have to also see their activity in the project threads to know if they are dedicated and willing to edit stuff at CE Labs. Some would prefer to just contribute content to the forums without wanting to edit stuff.

I don't mind anyone who discussed the CE:IM during the CE Meet be the project head for CE: IM. Xhx is already head of CE Bot. I can provide support for them both πŸ˜‰

To kick start the project, we need objectives and targets. Doesnt need to be too detailed.. but just a framework to build upon as it project goes along.

By the way, why would CE be banned in offices? Is it really affecting productivity? πŸ˜›
Prady
Prady • Jun 29, 2008
mayurpathak
Just one question, any reason for selecting python? Wiki suggested that google, Youtube et all use it. Is it easier?
It started as a scripting language and as of today is used for lot of web development; thanks to the frameworks developed by open source community. It has got a Java interface by name Jython.

The_Big_K
However, we need to have some development first. The core members who're thinking of developing CE should come up with something - so that others can join in to develop it further.
True, we need to have the basic material ready and checked-in to some online code repository. May be google-project or source-forge services can be used.
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Jun 30, 2008
Ok, simply put here are my thoughts:

1. I cannot (extensively) contribute to CE-IM as one I am not a veteran programmer regarding online services and secondly ... its just too much for something we (I?) might rarely use. No offense its just a personal thought πŸ˜€ I use yahoo and its pretty darn good.

2. Another thing came up recently and has been taking my time is...get READY... Firefox 3 localization. As you have seen we have Gujarati and Punjabi translations on the download page but no Hindi and no Maratthi and no Bangali (surprising aint it) and not even Malay!! Ash 😁. yes there is a Add-on but for FF2. Now, THATS a project I am willing to sweat for. (your thoughts)


3. @Prady: I have already created the test site on Google Code which is the same as a Sourceforge page. cecode - Google Code
check it out and give feedback on its main thread I had created or here: https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/announcements/3016-ce-code-site-created.html
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Jul 2, 2008
Alright. Honest thoughts from me too-

1. I'm not a programmer, so I can't be of much help in development.
2. I can help in conceiving the functionalities and documentation.
3. If the project is to kick off, its popularity and arranging for sponsorships, advertisements and funds (if needed) can be taken up by me.

That means I'm not the right guy to lead this initiative. Do we have volunteers?
Ashraf HZ
Ashraf HZ • Jul 3, 2008
mayurpathak
3. If the project is to kick off, its popularity and arranging for sponsorships, advertisements and funds (if needed) can be taken up by me.
The CE Bot is a pretty active project, and requires quite a number of equipment and materials.

*hint hint*

πŸ˜›
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Jul 3, 2008
ash
The CE Bot is a pretty active project, and requires quite a number of equipment and materials.

*hint hint*

πŸ˜›
Sure... prepare a plan and send it across. Tell me what type of cooperation you need, I will share it with all whom I know. I'm quite confident of arranging the funds. Just that the plan and the schedule of the entire project has to be robust.
Ashraf HZ
Ashraf HZ • Jul 3, 2008
mayurpathak
Sure... prepare a plan and send it across. Tell me what type of cooperation you need, I will share it with all whom I know. I'm quite confident of arranging the funds. Just that the plan and the schedule of the entire project has to be robust.
Really?? 😁😁😁

This is great news! I'll discuss with xhx regarding the plan. We'll update the CE Bot content beforehand, though.

@ xhx

Ah, that localization project would be interesting πŸ˜€
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Jul 3, 2008
WowπŸ˜€ Look at us. We are talking about one project on a rival project page 😁 lol (just kiddin dont fire me for this), CE bot is a active project.

We have to form the information in a bit more comprehensive way, so others can understand where its going and how.

Ash is doing wireless testing, and I am looking into the main brain of CE Bot, but I will need a LOT more help later. It can easily go out of hand (tempting to put in a lot of stuff that can be hell to program later).

Im gonna update the CE Bot Page soon and maybe even condense it as we were planning.

So yea, mayur you keep an eye on the lab, we will give a overview soon. And yes we have to SERIOUSLY think of MORE good projects. I am itching to see the CE Bot being built.

As for Localization, I think its a very heavy project since you have to be committed to it. As soon as I get more info from the Indian guy who initially had the project I can introduce it here, someone can take over it or something lets see. And Ash, you can think for Malay πŸ˜€
Ashraf HZ
Ashraf HZ • Jul 3, 2008
I'm still configuring the webcam streaming between two computers over a wireless LAN channel, using VideoLAN VLC (yes, the same multi-codec video player). It seems I might need a 3rd computer to act as a "server", so I'm figuring out a way to bypass that option.

The omni antenna is not complete yet. I'll be going back to uni, and gonna borrow the equipment I need πŸ˜€

*ahem* sorry to hijack this thread with CE Bot stuff! πŸ˜›

So... when are we starting CE-IM?
Ashraf HZ
Ashraf HZ • Aug 9, 2008
*bumps*

Hello CEaaaans??! *echoes in the valley*

Been a while since we had any activity. Anyways, I'm pretty sure we have many CEans who have the skills that are needed for this project.

If any of you are interested in developing the CE Instant Messenger, all you need to do is post on this thread πŸ˜€

We need:
- Programmers (any languages)
- Graphical artists (to design GUI)
- Testers
- Suggesters (anyone who has a suggestion πŸ˜‰ )

Hopefully soon, we can set the objectives in concrete, as well as create the milestones!
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Aug 12, 2008
ash
Been a while since we had any activity. Anyways, I'm pretty sure we have many CEans who have the skills that are needed for this project.
Yeah but sadly people are more interested discussing movies and stuff like that. But I'm determined not to let this initiative fall by the way side. I'm sure my reply will go to all who were involved in the original discussion.

ash
If any of you are interested in developing the CE Instant Messenger, all you need to do is post on this thread πŸ˜€

We need:
- Programmers (any languages)
- Graphical artists (to design GUI)
- Testers
- Suggesters (anyone who has a suggestion πŸ˜‰ )
Ok now here is my plan. I had a word with my sister yesterday (PS: She is into her final year of Computer Science Engineering). She spoke about the project she will be doing and was unhappy that she didn't get an industry project (live project). Taking a cue from there, I think we can lure some such engineers to do our CE IM. I can volunteer to go to a college and ask for Engineers... for free. I'm sure this is not a big deal. And I'm sure we can wrap this project within 4-5 months

ash
Hopefully soon, we can set the objectives in concrete, as well as create the milestones!
I need a concrete plan to be prepared before that. Can any of us do it?

Guys please reply!
MaRo
MaRo • Aug 12, 2008
I hope I can help count me in programmers, graphical, testers & suggester 😁
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Aug 12, 2008
MaRo
I hope I can help count me in programmers, graphical, testers & suggester 😁
Good to know that. Where are others?
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Aug 12, 2008
*raising his hand up* programmer!
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Aug 13, 2008
Excellent. We already have two programmers plus Ash. I think Biggie will manage the testing part. I will take care of the functionalities and the look and feel (probably might involve KJ)

So where is the document expert? Some one needs to prepare use cases.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Aug 13, 2008
I'm game for everything - coding, graphics, testing, suggesting, funding ( 😁 ) etc.

[Btw, are we going to need funds for the CE - IM? Let's start a CE Labs fund? ]
MaRo
MaRo • Aug 13, 2008
Well, seems programming work will be made in Saudi Arabia 😁
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Aug 13, 2008
Excellent stuff. By the way we will need $0000.0000 funding to start with 😁

All I need is 2 hrs of your time daily, your skill and your computer πŸ˜€

@Ash, maro: guys can you prepare a project flow document? As in where do we start, what do we need and who will be needed when. I know a senior person who could be our project guide. But we need to do quick. Send me by mail. How much time will it take?
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Aug 13, 2008
bayazidahmed
*raising his hand up* programmer!
Atta boy! Welcome to the gang!
Yay, good to see responses! Thanks for volunteering, guys πŸ˜€

Ah, I'm hoping we can coordinate with Prady regarding the program flow chart. Is there anyway to get in touch with him? I'll work on something this weekend, hopefully.

Any of you familiar with UML modelling tools? Might be useful to develop the CE: IM. Here's an example:

argouml.tigris.org
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Aug 20, 2008
*Knock Knock*

People sleeping again! Can we have the flow chart? Me and Biggie had a good discussion over this project recently. We believe some one will have to at least conceive the software architecture, if not design it. But I don't see any one who has volunteered for this.

Anyway, can we have the flow chart at least?

Also, if I list down the functionalities, and get the use cases done with help from some one (one of you), can you guys start writing the code?

PS: Pardon me if I was wrong, I'm ZERO in technology!
Ash's Simple Flowchart diagram:
                              [U][B]START[/B][/U] 
                               |
                Discuss functionality of CE:IM 
                               |
                        Delegate tasks
                               |
    Develop algorithms of each functions in pseudo code
                               |
         Deliberate and evaluate the algorithms
                               | 
     Develop prototype algorithms in C/C++/Java etc..
                               |
                Integrate all functions together
                               |
                         Test and debug
                               |
                               [U][B]END[/B][/U]
*grin*

Thats the very basic one. I think those in the software industry has more accurate flowcharts for software development.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Aug 20, 2008
Missing Step: Find passionate enthusiasts who are willing to develop the messenger.
πŸ˜” - Where do we get those?
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Aug 20, 2008
The_Big_K
πŸ˜” - Where do we get those?
Big Concern. But I'm sure people are reading this.
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Aug 22, 2008
I can devote 1 hour daily and 2 hours on weekend.
If anybod of you has any idea what protocol or technology we'll be using then I can start with the basics.

I'll put in m opinion here as well. We can use socks (supported in all most all platforms) for connections and C# (.Net Framework required) or C++ (again supported on all platforms) to use as a programming tool.

We urgently need a document expert.
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Aug 22, 2008
xHeavenlyx mentioned using python, ash advocated it too. But if you have other ideas... let us know more
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Aug 22, 2008
Nothing specific from my side. Because of C++/C# highly Object Oriented approach I suggested it.

Lets see what others have to say, especially Maro since has agreed to be on the programming team.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Aug 22, 2008
bayazidahmed, you know what? Once you start working - there will be lot of CEans willing to join in and help.

[We all are waiting for a leader!]
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Aug 22, 2008
That is the problem (Especiall with Indians. There is a joke which goes like.., I'll dwelve into it later).

I have ideas, I have knowledge to develop it and I have a little experience (I made my own messenger around 4-5 years back in class XIIth) but the thing is, I dont have time now!

And I dont want to start something on my own directly. Like take this example itself, I said C++/C#, xheavenlyx and ash are in favour of python, I just cannot proceed like that without everyone attesting it which again takes time!

So the only problem here is time!
Prasad Ajinkya
Prasad Ajinkya • Aug 23, 2008
Hi,

Was going through the entire chain, for the protocol part, why dont we use the XMPP protocol?

Also, instead of building the application ground-up, why not take the source of an already pre-existing open source application, tweak it to our needs and voila! Why waste time in re-inventing the wheel?

Please go through something like this - Source for XMPP Instant Messenger for Central

Secondly, remember that its going to be a desktop appln, i.e it has to look good for all of us finicky users to use it πŸ˜€

I can start on the document, but it would be great if someone can guide me on the same.
xheavenlyx
xheavenlyx • Aug 23, 2008
Ok @Ahmed. Me and Ash were supporting Python as a language, not for the messager. Ofcourse, the person who takes the role of the project manager, decides which one to use after poppular demand (seems C++).

And I stated earlier, I wont be contributing to this project. I dont support the CE messenger idea cuz we already have wonderful messengers to do the job. If we want to take up a problem, it must be one that needs to be solved or improved.

Lastly, if anyone or a group wants to do the project then excellent. I guess CE supports independent and group projects.

If still in doubt have a poll!! πŸ˜€
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Aug 23, 2008
kidakaka
Hi,

Was going through the entire chain, for the protocol part, why dont we use the XMPP protocol?

Also, instead of building the application ground-up, why not take the source of an already pre-existing open source application, tweak it to our needs and voila! Why waste time in re-inventing the wheel?

Please go through something like this - Source for XMPP Instant Messenger for Central

Secondly, remember that its going to be a desktop appln, i.e it has to look good for all of us finicky users to use it πŸ˜€

I can start on the document, but it would be great if someone can guide me on the same.
Ah! You are taking the fun out of it. If we follow this then we can go one more step ahead and use Yahoo! messenger directly, why even tweak it?
MaRo
MaRo • Aug 24, 2008
First We have to post random thoughts about how the Messenger will work & how it looks.
Everybody post his ideas till and when we have a complete picture start working on what language, GUI...etc.
Here are General points about the project, every point is about a whole function.

1) There should be a server that running the engine every contact connects to it.
Synchronizing your contacts to you, keeps you a connected, always showing who's online buddies, showing your status (busy,away..etc) and authenticating sessions.
2) Clients open the application write down the username & password, session authenticated OK, engine sync the contacts & their status.
3) When user starts a conversation the engine makes a call channel between them assigning ports to communicate throws them.
4) write message and send as text throw this ports & shown on the chatting window.

Any suggestions?
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Aug 24, 2008
Basically thats it!
Prasad Ajinkya
Prasad Ajinkya • Aug 25, 2008
Guys, the whole idea is to have an damn good looking application based on set frameworks and proven ideas. If you intend to build it from ground-up, then we have miles to go before even aspiring to use it in mainstream. The application will be built, everyone will applaud the effort, and we will go back to our yahoo messenger and gtalk, or whatever is it that you use.

The idea is to USE it as a day-to-day application. Focus on the utility of the IM, not whether you can do it from ground-up. What Maro is saying is a piece of cake, one of my friends in engineering had done it single-handedly and it worked (with smileys, et al) superbly. What did he do ahead with that java prog? Nothing. And that's precisely what we do not want to see happen.
Prasad Ajinkya
Prasad Ajinkya • Aug 25, 2008
I am not saying that we should do this, its a suggestion -

1. Messaging - Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2. For search on CE - Can we look at using ajax for server based searching?
Else, we will have to look at downloading the content and do the search locally.

What say?
Boo! I'm back!

Kidakaka, I understand what you mean. But I personally believe one built from ground up is quite feasible and sustainable on the long run. If you remember Desijay's discussions on CLI and possible GUI addons, we do not have to make it highly sophisticated (or bloated). And remember, this CE Messenger is aimed at us, so it is tailored for use in sync with the CE Forum. I'd doubt it'll be mainstream in a way that anyone in the net can use, but we CEans (numbering thousands) would be the segment of the internet users that we are targetting. As long as there is CE, there is CE:IM πŸ˜€

So, we are not really aiming for kick ass looks for now πŸ˜› Its more towards functionality, and we have discussed it a little bit in the beginning of this thread with regards to:
1. Instant Messaging: Send text messages in real-time to any registered CE member (online/offline).
2. IM Conferencing: Instant message with many CE members at once in a conference room.
3. File Transfer: Send files instantly to a CE member while you IM.
4. Contact Search Bar: Quickly find a contact to IM.

1. CE search bar: The CEdoot GUI should have a search bar for searching the contents on CE.
2. CE alerts: Get notified about new posts on CE when logged in to CEdoot. CE members can discuss any of the posts online on one-on-one chat basis or in conferencing mode and once the conversation ends the chat transcript can be saved as comments on the post in the CE.
3. CE quick query forums (subscription mode): A set of quick query forums should be available for subscription to CE members over CEdoot e.g. java developers, civil engineers, chillax etc. CEdoot should have a quick query board in the GUI wherein the queries posted in the subscribed quick query forums should be displayed. CE member can choose to answer the queries online on one-on-one chat basis or in conferencing mode and once the conversation ends the complete chat transcript can be saved as a new post under quick query forums in CE. Any subsequent conversation on the query-turned-post should be treated as comments in the CE.
4. CE quick query forums (surfing mode): Members should also have the facility to view and answer queries posted in the other forums (forums not subscribed by the CE member) on demand. Basically, the quick query board can be made to work in two different modes mentioned in points 3 and 4.
Don't forget the discussions on whether to use P2P/central server type of connection, etc.

With regards to the language used, Python was proposed as an addition, not a substitution, to others like C/C++ or Java. Why not take the best of both worlds? πŸ˜‰ I suppose all of you agree that we should make it atleast portable across platforms. If possible, we shall aim to make it portable in a sense that it does not need to be installed as well(e.g use on flash drives).. though thats a pretty secondary target.

We could start of with CLI, and easily add a GUI interface. Something like what was done with the jkdefrag application.
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Aug 25, 2008
Some random comments from me too, although useless πŸ˜›

1. While the messenger needs to have a good look and feel, lets not aim at a Yahoo! We are fine with an IPMsg look alike too. Lets aim at getting a basic messenger first, even if it is a cake walk. Lets start some where!

2. The functionalities are inch perfect. Have a look at this web messenger project using C# on source forge. Is it possible to tweak it for our requirements? SourceForge.net: HappyIM

3. Instead of making a unique messenger, can we not make some thing aka Digsby?

4. Going ahead, let us look at making a widget out of our messenger. Lot of CEans write blogs, it will be good idea to link to CE them through their blogs. How can we do it?
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Aug 25, 2008
kidakaka
Guys, the whole idea is to have an damn good looking application based on set frameworks and proven ideas. If you intend to build it from ground-up, then we have miles to go before even aspiring to use it in mainstream. The application will be built, everyone will applaud the effort, and we will go back to our yahoo messenger and gtalk, or whatever is it that you use.

The idea is to USE it as a day-to-day application. Focus on the utility of the IM, not whether you can do it from ground-up. What Maro is saying is a piece of cake, one of my friends in engineering had done it single-handedly and it worked (with smileys, et al) superbly. What did he do ahead with that java prog? Nothing. And that's precisely what we do not want to see happen.
In short you mean to say be a Bill Gates! Get PC-DOS and market it as MS-DOS!
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Aug 25, 2008
kidakaka
I am not saying that we should do this, its a suggestion -

1. Messaging - Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2. For search on CE - Can we look at using ajax for server based searching?
Else, we will have to look at downloading the content and do the search locally.

What say?
I didnt get your second point. From where is the search orignating? Messenger or the CE web page?
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Aug 25, 2008
I second every point mentioned by ash except for the last point where he says lets start with CLI. I will sugest we'll go for GUI directly in windows, especially the server part.
One more thing here, I thing its better that we do the client as well as the server part together. It'll be easy for synchronising them together.

Regarding the discussion on P2P or centrally based, I will suggest centrally based, for P2P every client should has its port forwaded on the router which the user will have to do manually configure which in turn is not a good idea.
Ah, can we do both GUI and CLI? The CLI can be the.. "expert" version or something πŸ˜›

Yep, thats the bad of P2P, but the advantage is that the load is distributed (less overhead) and decentralized. If the central server goes down (if we even manage to have a dedicated one), then no one can go online.

Maybe we can do both? If server is down, we have backup.
Prasad Ajinkya
Prasad Ajinkya • Aug 26, 2008
bayazidahmed
In short you mean to say be a Bill Gates! Get PC-DOS and market it as MS-DOS!
Ahhh ... I meant look at opensource as a viable means of reducing your time to market. If you manage to learn some frameworks in the process, thats for the good.

bayazidahmed
I didnt get your second point. From where is the search orignating? Messenger or the CE web page?
The search is originating from the messenger.
MaRo
MaRo • Aug 26, 2008
Advantages of a "from-scratch" messenger:

1- Have fun
2- Learn what's going on
3- May be someone get a brand new idea that can appeal people to our messenger

I think if you like something this the best advertisment for it, I mean when someone see you using this messenger and that it's for engineers community engineers will be appealled first then you'll have a network of people just advertising without you even know.

Not that we have to make it super professional and going around in websites to advertise for it, we will LOSE.

____________
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Aug 26, 2008
ash
Ah, can we do both GUI and CLI? The CLI can be the.. "expert" version or something πŸ˜›

Yep, thats the bad of P2P, but the advantage is that the load is distributed (less overhead) and decentralized. If the central server goes down (if we even manage to have a dedicated one), then no one can go online.

Maybe we can do both? If server is down, we have backup.
But the disadvantage is much more greater than the advantage.

As suggested we can go for P2P after we finish the central part.
Alrighty πŸ˜‰ Centralized it is! We can look at Kidakaka's XMPP example for reference.
MaRo
MaRo • Aug 27, 2008
I began drawing the messenger plan, I've some points on it.

1- How much will be reserved for each contact for any data he might need
I think 200 to 300 KB is enough.

2- Connected to CE vbulletin database to sync contacts

3- I prefer doing it GUI as default & CLI as lite-mode
MaRo
I began drawing the messenger plan, I've some points on it.

1- How much will be reserved for each contact for any data he might need
I think 200 to 300 KB is enough.

2- Connected to CE vbulletin database to sync contacts

3- I prefer doing it GUI as default & CLI as lite-mode
1- Oh, what kind of data is usually needed? I suppose the usual authentication stuff yea? What about contact lists and avatars? Would that enlarge the data content, keeping in mind we need to encode and encrypt?

2- Yep, I believe we'd need to connect to the vB database. How do we access it?

3- Alright, I concede to you and ahmed about focusing on GUI first. Can we try designing a rough GUI layout? That might be fun πŸ˜€
Stickied the thread πŸ˜€
MaRo
MaRo • Aug 30, 2008
here we are

1) I made a prototype for the server, I'll write it in code to share suggestions/opinions

2) I'm still thinking how we can connect to the CE database. Any suggestions?

3) GUI needs some new idea, any ideas by you CEans even it's a scratch post it here it can be very helpful πŸ˜‰

4) We need to designs : the main window & chat window..best designs, We (graphics designers) convert it into nice looking digital design πŸ˜€
bayazidahmed
bayazidahmed • Aug 30, 2008
For connecting to CE database, we need the connection string and the table structures of the table with in which the userinfo is stored. I think The_Big_K will have to step in here
Regarding CE database access, try checking out the vbulletin.org website on how to have external access to the database. At the moment, all I know is that login details are encrypted of md5 hashes, etc.
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Sep 11, 2008
This has gone in the oblivion again. Guys when are we starting actual work? I'm no technical guy... tell me how can I help?

Should I consider learning C++ :grin: Tell me!
Yes, please do learn it. Its fun! πŸ˜‰

I wanted to suggest that we can try to get another vBulletin system and experiment with it, so that the CE forums can be run uninterrupted. Unfortunately, vB is not free πŸ˜›

Here's a good place to check out the functions used in vB login:
vBulletin 3.7 Code Documentation

The key is understanding the Data Managers:
vBulletin Manual

The actual codes to use are available, but you need to be a "licenced" user of vBulletin (which Biggie is). For now we'll try to understand the abstract of the operation. If we get stuck, maybe Biggie can get some sample code to use πŸ˜€
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Sep 11, 2008
πŸ˜€ We *do* have a test vBulletin setup and things can be tried there. What's better is - there's a plugin that allows users to send messages in real time - just like we do through Gtalk or Yahoo Messenger.

We may just customize it or build our system on the top of it.
Ah, you mean the integrated Gtalk in GMail? I think that'll take up a lot of server resources πŸ˜›

What we can borrow is how the plugin authenticate users. Once that is figured out, it'll make life much easier πŸ˜€
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Sep 11, 2008
The_Big_K
πŸ˜€ We *do* have a test vBulletin setup and things can be tried there. What's better is - there's a plugin that allows users to send messages in real time - just like we do through Gtalk or Yahoo Messenger.

We may just customize it or build our system on the top of it.
This is great. But is it integrated or it works like a gtalk client? If we can customize it and launch a beta version, this would be super!
Alright, for you coding junkies, here's some thing to work on. This is a sample of the authentication of vB users:
$query = "
   SELECT
       userid, password, salt
   FROM
       [table-prefix]user
   WHERE
       username = '" . addslashes($_POST['username']) . "' 
   LIMIT 1;";
   // execute the query and retrieve the results. 
   // ...
   // assume result stored in $data[]
 if (md5( $_POST['password'] . $salt ) == $data['password']) {
   // authentication successful, set cookies as
   setcookies("bbuserid", $data['userid']);
   setcookies("bbpassword", md5($data['password'] . "YOURLICENSENUMBERHERE"));
 } else {
   // authentication failed
   // redirect to error page
}  
Taken from MediaWiki's integration method πŸ˜€

Yep, can't wait to dissect the plugin Biggie's talkin about!
*bump*

Just reread all the posts in this thread. So much potential! The CE:IM is very possible to do, but momentum completely stopped πŸ˜”

Since it might be a hassle for new CEans (or seniors) to read through everything to get the gist of the project, I will super condense the info:

Introduction
The IM project was resurrected after our first CE Meet, and we saw the need for an Instant Messaging client to help foster great collaboration and exchanging of ideas amongst CEans. This IM would also make it faster for queries to be answered quickly and be the right "experts". It is meant to work in tandem with the main CE Forum.

Aim
To develop a small and simple Instant Messenger client specifically for CEans to exchange ideas and synchronize with the main CE forum.

Objectives

- Develop a simple GUI
- Connect to the CE vB database for authentication
- Use a central server that hosts contact information and facilitates communcations amongst CEans
- A simple platform and protocol to chat with other CEans

Simple Flowchart
START
|
Discuss functionality of CE:IM
|
Delegate tasks
|
Develop algorithms of each functions in pseudo code
|
Deliberate and evaluate the algorithms
|
Develop prototype algorithms in C/C++/Java etc..
|
Integrate all functions together
|
Test and debug
|
END

Tasks (initial)
- Understand how IM protocols works
- Analysing vBulletin authentication methods
- Simple designs of GUI windows

MaRo has created a prototype server, so there has been some sort of "physical" progress. My previous post shows an example of vB authentication methods, but I dont understand full process yet.

For the moment, the easist thing to do is to design some concept GUIs for the chat window, contact list, etc.

Anyway, for those interested, please dont hesitate to post or comment. Keep in mind, though, that we are trying to focus on the CE Firefox Extension project to be completed first, before moving all sofware interests back to this project. So, please check it out here:

https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/12308-ce-project-idea-ce-firefox-extension.html
MaRo
MaRo • Jan 26, 2009
It was very simple server made in C# which I don't think very efficient, I'm suggesting Java to make it, I saw JavaFX very nice I'll see if we can use it for that purpose, Who's willing to code?
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Jan 26, 2009
We've lot of Java experts on CE. But, are we ready to take this up? What happened to our 'Small Projects'?
shalini_goel14
shalini_goel14 • Jan 26, 2009
MaRo
It was very simple server made in C# which I don't think very efficient, I'm suggesting Java to make it, I saw JavaFX very nice I'll see if we can use it for that purpose, Who's willing to code?
Hi Maro,

May be I can be of some help to you. Just give me the details. πŸ˜€
Awesome, shalini πŸ˜€

@ biggie
could we get more information regarding vB user authentication methods? Only the admins have access to that information on the main vB forum πŸ˜€

For the small projects, you're referring to the firefox plugin right? We will try working on it. The main reason why I bumped this thread was because I wanted to keep it "warm", not frozen and forgotten. I myself might even forget what this project was about πŸ˜›

Is it possible to reach Prady?
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Jan 27, 2009
Hey Ash,

Good that you warmed up this discussion. But to be very fair, without some 'real' development happening, this project (or any other project) is going to be frozen. What we lack here is leadership. Prady could have been the one but is inactive since long time. May be the locations is also another reason for slow progress on the projects.

If the development can be done in bits and pieces and later integrated, it will be great!
Yea, lack of project leadership is proving to be our Achilles heel. No one seems to be available constantly due to other commitments πŸ˜”

Mayur, we can try doing the development in bits. From the tasks I've highlighted, its not so hard to do.

What we can work on to share development between this and the Firefox extension project is the vB authentication process.. to provide prompts, notices, new messages, PMs, etc. While MaRo and Shalini work on the prototype server, the rest of us can try to understand how to get data from our CE accounts and display them.
Mayur Pathak
Mayur Pathak • Jan 27, 2009
ash
Yea, lack of project leadership is proving to be our Achilles heel. No one seems to be available constantly due to other commitments πŸ˜”

Mayur, we can try doing the development in bits. From the tasks I've highlighted, its not so hard to do.

What we can work on to share development between this and the Firefox extension project is the vB authentication process.. to provide prompts, notices, new messages, PMs, etc. While MaRo and Shalini work on the prototype server, the rest of us can try to understand how to get data from our CE accounts and display them.
Agreed! πŸ‘
shalini_goel14
shalini_goel14 • Jan 27, 2009
ash
Yea, lack of project leadership is proving to be our Achilles heel. No one seems to be available constantly due to other commitments πŸ˜”

Mayur, we can try doing the development in bits. From the tasks I've highlighted, its not so hard to do.

What we can work on to share development between this and the Firefox extension project is the vB authentication process.. to provide prompts, notices, new messages, PMs, etc. While MaRo and Shalini work on the prototype server, the rest of us can try to understand how to get data from our CE accounts and display them.
Good Plan ash. I also agree. Waiting for Maro to send me the code.πŸ˜”
MaRo
MaRo • Jan 27, 2009
Guys, I started the new prototype in Java, once It's done I'll post it with documentation, while this being done I want people to do this tasks:

- GUI designs -appealling ones- even start trying from now.
- Tell us where to send authentication data in the forum.
- Any ideas?
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Jan 27, 2009
Let's not integrate authentication with the forum. Its better if its independent service.
shalini_goel14
shalini_goel14 • Jan 27, 2009
MaRo
Guys, I started the new prototype in Java, once It's done I'll post it with documentation, while this being done I want people to do this tasks:

- GUI designs -appealling ones- even start trying from now.
- Tell us where to send authentication data in the forum.
- Any ideas?
Maro,

What we are going to use for making GUI ?
MaRo
MaRo • Jan 27, 2009
@Big K: We have to put a concept for authentication..

- An application running on the server that holds people contacts & authentication
- According to the friends feature in the personal profile
- @crazyengineers.com emails (for authentication) & application for personalization (contacts, avatar,whatever).


@shalini : GIMP or Photoshop..any photoediting software.
The_Big_K
Let's not integrate authentication with the forum. Its better if its independent service.
Hm, is it? Its the easiest way to verify that you are a CEan, and that contact details downloaded will be related to you only.

Is it possible to get the source code for the CE Conference?
MaRo
MaRo • Jan 29, 2009
Big K, I see no problem with vBulletin authentication, it's exactly as a Sign in, a request sent to the form according to the returned text, we will authenticate the session, that's it.
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Jan 29, 2009
MaRo
Big K, I see no problem with vBulletin authentication, it's exactly as a Sign in, a request sent to the form according to the returned text, we will authenticate the session, that's it.
Alrighty! I guessed that but wanted to be doubly sure.
MaRo
MaRo • Jan 29, 2009
Can I say this is a supported launch to the CE-IM?

[secret]I'm still working on it ignoring FF thing, don't tell anybody[/secret]
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Mar 20, 2009
My $0.02 -

Can we tweak PIDGIN messenger for our needs? That should get the job done.
shalini_goel14
shalini_goel14 • Mar 20, 2009
@Maro What say about PIDGIN? Any kind of updates from your side on CE-IM? πŸ˜€
MaRo
MaRo • Mar 20, 2009
Well, the Pidgin cents have pros

- I'm using Pidgin code in another project
- Written in C
- No wheels being reinvented
shalini_goel14
shalini_goel14 • Mar 20, 2009
MaRo
Well, the Pidgin cents have pros

- I'm using Pidgin code in another project
- Written in C
- No wheels being reinvented
Man, why you have made this thread dead? Please do keep on adding fire to this project and questions here if some work is already going on this. πŸ˜€
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Mar 20, 2009
I installed pidgin today and it works damn well with CE IDs. πŸ˜‰ . We may use CE network ides for login πŸ˜‰
shalini_goel14
shalini_goel14 • Mar 20, 2009
The_Big_K
I installed pidgin today and it works damn well with CE IDs. πŸ˜‰ . We may use CE network ides for login πŸ˜‰
So can we say CE-IM project is over? What say Maro about this? I guess if no one is working on these old projects we can start some new better software related projects?
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Mar 20, 2009
Over? It's yet to start!

CE IM is not supposed to be yet another IM; but we are designing something especial for engineers.
MaRo
MaRo • Mar 20, 2009
With the Pidgin help, it's over, some CE tweaks.

Ok, nobody will know & it can still our own IM, but in fact we wouldn't made the job.
I used Pidgin before (when it was called Gaim). Pretty neat stuff. But.. I'm thinking Miranda IM would be a better platform to work on because its minimalist and fast. Its probably easier to learn the latter's source too, since its smaller.

@Biggie
Using the CE ID's is interesting (if you meant the CE Mail and Network accounts), but their login authentication is totally different from the vBulletin's one πŸ˜”

We should really try to attempt the vB autentication as soon as possible. Biggie, I've tried to look at coding at the vB forums regarding vB authentication, but they are blocked from me because I don't have a vB licence. Can you access the codes for me? Is it possible?
Kaustubh Katdare
Kaustubh Katdare • Mar 21, 2009
@ ash: Yes. I specifically meant the CE Network Ids (ending in .net). Initially, we'll restrict the login only to those with CE Network Ids.

I had a meeting with CEan Xero today and he said he had developed a messenger on his own when he was in college. He can redo the basic functionality of CE IM. We may then expand on his framework.

Either way, we can get this done.
Lol, yep.. we can get it done. But this seems to be pretty perpetually in discussions.. looks like we need another reincarnation πŸ˜‰
xero
xero • Mar 21, 2009
sorry for saying this, but we don't need a "REINCARNATION" and all this discussion made me almost puke with a head ache

and believe me it actually doesn't require more than 2-3 guys 😁
xero
xero • Mar 21, 2009
ash, i guess in between the discussion you forgot ur own status !!

Keep it simple and keep it real !
please if we kick off this time, make sure that we follow this
Yeah, I was thinking using the vB authentication would be quite straight forward. Don't you agree? We are practically trying to make an offline version of the CE conference πŸ˜€

Of course, I have never done any messenger project like you have, so I've only been trying to contribute what I thought was good suggestions. Looks like I was wrong πŸ˜›
xero
xero • Mar 21, 2009
Thanks for the suggestion, however its really not time for taking up requirements. My intent is just to help ppl learn πŸ˜€ Although i've no idea, how many people are even going through this thread.

I guess its better if we start with the high level details that we need for it πŸ˜€

When i say high level, it simply means, a basic layout or outlook or describing the basic functionality of the application.
Alrighty, here are the basic requirements:

  • Log in using the CE username
  • Able to chat with other CEans
  • Notification/Alerts of new posts, PMs, etc
  • Search bar for CrazyEngineers
We did discuss at the beginning about more advanced functionality such seeking out "experts" on CE personally to help with problems, etc. But that is probably a much later implementation.

There is some overlap with another project, involving making a FireFox plugin which provides the last two of the basic requirements. The was hope in creating a synthesis in doing both projects in parallel to share knowledge and coding, but we haven't been successful at that so far.

Regarding the GUI layout.. not much was thought up. I am also guilty of not doing any designs despite me requesting for them πŸ˜› Looks like everyone is so darn busy with other things.

Xero, it would help us for a start if you can summarize the basic steps in making a messenging client. Then we can plan out how the CE:IM can come about πŸ˜€
ms_cs
ms_cs • Mar 22, 2009
The_Big_K
Alrighty! I guessed that but wanted to be doubly sure.

Our team , also needs the some of the details of the Crazyengineers site for our Extension Project. We didnot planned yet about the project completely...The discussion is going on...Is it possible to get a details of the CE site...documentation...
ms_cs
ms_cs • Mar 22, 2009
Ceans want to create a IM get the source code of pidgin from the following site.
Source | Download

And have a look at this site
UsingPidginMonotone Γ’β‚¬β€œ Pidgin Γ’β‚¬β€œ Trac
xero
xero • Mar 22, 2009
I'm thinking of further simplifying it. Just an authentication and able to chat with other CEans πŸ˜€

Well right now i don't think we really need to focus on GUI, first we'll build a very basic chat client which works on a "command prompt" πŸ˜€

However there are a few prerequisites as follows :

1. We'll need a internet machine with public IP(unfortunately i don't have one) to setup the IM server (XMPP based) along with the database. For this we'll not use the CE database. Just a dummy database with a few values to start with.

2. (Optional) We'll need a versioning server (CVS; its free 😁) where we'll store the code. I'll explain later about this

3. We need the above machines to be operational 24x7 !

4. Again, as i said before this is not going to be reincarnation of "CE Doot". So i suggest to start a new thread saying CE Messenger ONLY !

and Ash, as for summarizing all i can say as of now that its like Tower of Hanoi, you just put the pieces right in the right way πŸ˜€

PS: We'll plan a lot less this time, call it unprofessional, but it works !
ms_cs
ms_cs • Mar 22, 2009
@Xero: Good Analysis. I agree with you. can you elaborate the point 1
xero
xero • Mar 22, 2009
The point 1 says : I need a machine with Internet, having an IP address which i can ping from anywhere in the world

This is required to install the XMPP(a protocol for messaging) server with its database. So this will be like a black 'heart' box of the messaging system !
shalini_goel14
shalini_goel14 • Mar 22, 2009
xero
The point 1 says : I need a machine with Internet, having an IP address which i can ping from anywhere in the world

This is required to install the XMPP(a protocol for messaging) server with its database. So this will be like a black 'heart' box of the messaging system !
For Point no 1 and 2 , I guess Big_K only can only provide such machines because CE server machine operates 24x7 .
Xero, please go ahead and start a new thread πŸ˜€ I suggest you to start it so that you'll have the ability to edit the first post to add more things in the future.

Can CE's hosting server act as the internet machine? Biggie should be able to provide that, like Shalini said.

So, for the rest of us, what would you suggest we do in the meantime?
Alrighty folks, Xero has started a new thread here:
https://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-labs/18111-ce-messenger.html

Contribute your ideas there!

Man, aren't I glad to finally close this discussion πŸ˜‰

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