01 Jan 2007

Are Microsoft Products really screwed up?

I'm sure, this one is going to touch your emotions. 😁

Lately, I've met many die-hard Microsoft haters who think Microsoft products are all screwed up. This thread is dedicated to all arguments & counter-arguments on Microsoft Products.

Let's have a healthy discussion over here. We'll not confine ourselves to any particular product.

To set the ball rolling, let's take Microsoft's Windows Operating System. Tell everyone why you think its good or bad.

-The Big K-
Neha

Neha

Branch Unspecified
02 Jan 2007
Nice thread, Biggie!

Well to comment on Microsoft's operating system, it won't be difficult coz I've neva used any other operating system, but what I've heard z window's op is most user friendly!
Let comments flood in!
desijays

desijays

Branch Unspecified
02 Jan 2007
Windows is the scrouge of the planet. I think it should be banned. If it werent for Windows we all would be more computer savvy in a way.

Besides Windows is severly flawed at the core. Networking was added as an after thought. The registry is completely unnecessary if a little thought was given to the initial design. All the configuration details could be stored in simple txt files like linux.

Windows is also bloated in the most serious of ways. By definition an operating system should be the interface between the programmer and the underlying hardware devices. It can include a little application software. But not every blaedy drop in the ocean. It must leave end users with a choice of what they want to have on their system. Even now if you try to uninstall netmeeting, or msn gaming service or WMP, it will give you an error saying it can't. Thats BS.

And most importantly, its not the OS I am against, even though I wouldn't mind rallying against its use. I hate the company. The way they monopolize the market. Quite frankly, that is the reason most of us hate microsoft, not cos of its OS alone.

Now compare linux in all the above aspects. If you know what I'm talking about, you'll conclude linux is beautiful.

Windows is just downright ugly. Its got pimples and potch marks... all the way up and in place you can't see. I wish windows had life so i can beat it till it died.
aashima

aashima

Branch Unspecified
04 Jan 2007
Well with the operating system, I hardly have any complaints. I find it pretty satisfactory and well upto my requirements. Microsoft I suppose have incorporated almost all the comfortable features that are needed one to access the OS whether he is perfect or a novice!
But as far as the other products of Microsoft are concerned, I do find them insufficient and screwed up! Windows' softwares like Norton, Media player and many of them are far less popular than other counterparts available.
crook

crook

Branch Unspecified
04 Jan 2007
aashima
But as far as the other products of Microsoft are concerned, I do find them insufficient and screwed up! Windows' softwares like Norton, Media player and many of them are far less popular than other counterparts available.
I think there is a little misunderstanding here. Norton is not a product manufactured by Microsoft. Symantec is responsible for Norton. I agree with the fact that Windows Media Player is not a great software.

But the real trouble is with outlook express! 😡 Its vulnerable to worms and trojans. I hope the upgrade of Outlook express, that is Windows Mail will address this.
akravikanth

akravikanth

Branch Unspecified
04 Jan 2007
Has anyone watched the Revolution OS documentary? if not, first watch it.

Then you can know the answers for all the things from top to bottom, a to Z, up to down...

Some highlights of the video are the talkings of Linux kernel developer Linus Torvalds, Software Patents and free software, GNU by the FSF founder Richard Stallman. And one important highlight is the protest by the people who actually bought Microsoft Windows and screwed up and with the "Who Ordered Windows", signs in that protest.
ishandoshi

ishandoshi

Branch Unspecified
17 Jan 2007
Hello People,
Well i really think Microsoft Sux...though i use windows xp as my OS.I had this query in my mind too.Well All products of microsoft are actually an idea or innovation from some other companies.For eg,Vista which is the upcoming OS is a total duplicate copy of MAC OS.Apple released its version of iPods.Microsoft came up with Zune.
Basically why people go on for windows is that its user friendly while MAC aint.But we being developers and into the computer domain...according to me i suppose we should respect the fact that Apple's innovation is the best and even though Microsoft is rocking the market today its not gonna continue in the same way as it is now.
Am wondering how wonderful it would be if Google would take out an OS!!
Well anyways final conclusion for me is Microsoft Sucks...
17 Jan 2007
That's exactly something which I had expected on this thread 😁 !

I've used iMac OSX, WinXP, RedHat and BeOS as a home user. I've had a look at Vista too. I can say for sure that Vista is not a copy of OSX! It just cannot be.

Microsoft, I think, did a fantastic job with its Aria(TM) thing in Vista. Think about it from a home user perspective. XP, Vista do provide a complete solution to a regular home user. Linux (read ubuntu) is a great OS but people aren't ready to switch. Probably we are in love with the 'UI' which we see everywhere - banks, offices, colleges and even in software companies. Google OS - they will surely come up with one soon. I really believe that new new OS shouldn't be aimed to 'Kill Windows'. Rather, it should provide us with something which hasn't yet been thought of.

But we must not forget the Microsoft has came up with really good products too. "Outlook" is an example which I want to quote here. There's only one mail client which comes closer to it - "Evolution": available on KDE.

Before I conclude, I must congratulate MS ( 😁 ) for the 'Live' search. Live search, in my opinion, is way better than Google's or Yahoo's search. By 'better', I mean the search results relevancy. Any takers on this? 😉

-The Big K-
aashima

aashima

Branch Unspecified
18 Jan 2007
Well said Biggie! Thats true that as a matter of race or universal acceptance, we deliberately like the Windows certainly bevauseof its simple and user friendly UI. I expect much from VISTA though haven't had a control on all its features. Anybody tried?
Prasad Ajinkya

Prasad Ajinkya

Branch Unspecified
27 Apr 2007
desijays
Windows is the scrouge of the planet. I think it should be banned. If it werent for Windows we all would be more computer savvy in a way.

Besides Windows is severly flawed at the core. Networking was added as an after thought. The registry is completely unnecessary if a little thought was given to the initial design. All the configuration details could be stored in simple txt files like linux.

Windows is also bloated in the most serious of ways. By definition an operating system should be the interface between the programmer and the underlying hardware devices. It can include a little application software. But not every blaedy drop in the ocean. It must leave end users with a choice of what they want to have on their system. Even now if you try to uninstall netmeeting, or msn gaming service or WMP, it will give you an error saying it can't. Thats BS.

And most importantly, its not the OS I am against, even though I wouldn't mind rallying against its use. I hate the company. The way they monopolize the market. Quite frankly, that is the reason most of us hate microsoft, not cos of its OS alone.

Now compare linux in all the above aspects. If you know what I'm talking about, you'll conclude linux is beautiful.

Windows is just downright ugly. Its got pimples and potch marks... all the way up and in place you can't see. I wish windows had life so i can beat it till it died.

I like this. I can identify with desijays ... hear hear. To talk on MS Windows, where do I start and where do I end? There was a time when I would have fought for Windows (I was the cause of a really bad flame war during my engineering days - we used to call it war of the OSes). Back then, the thing that attracted me towards Windows was simple. Games. If I had to play games, I needed Windows.

Then I saw Wine. Case closed.

After 8 years: I have a Dell laptop, and it is windows free. Still all games run smoothly as ever and I havent looked at another BSOD (hardcore Windows users would know the Blue Screen Of Death) yet.
Mayur Pathak

Mayur Pathak

Branch Unspecified
27 Apr 2007
I'm neither a hater nor a lover of Microsoft products. I makes no difference to me whether I use a Linux or a microsoft operating system.

Of course I have been using MS for many years now and would definately find it difficult to transition to a new platform. I'm not a techie guy who'll think too deep and go into the programing aspect. My take is that Microsoft has mastered the art of selling its half baked products to the market.

Hate it or take it, you cant live without MS around you
no_atkt

no_atkt

Branch Unspecified
27 Apr 2007
desijays
Windows is the scrouge of the planet. I think it should be banned. If it werent for Windows we all would be more computer savvy in a way.
i did not even read the rest of thread ... dude any person who has been affiliated with computers and is sane knows that its only because of windows (MS) that computers are so wide spread and NOT used by a select few who either have loads of cash (mac freaks) or by geeks who wud rather type codes than clicks (linux fanboys) .... its by far the most stupid statement ... MS revolutionized computing for the world

could u care to explain tht if windows wasnt there how u wud hv been more computer savvy ...

and i read some 1 saying that vista is a rip off mac os X ... mac os x has features which windows introduced .... cud u tell me what was ripped and then may b i will b able to tell u who came out with what first

and for the dude who said that ipod from apple was a revolution id say apple copied the idea from sony's walkman so dont say ms copied apple .... its competition .... though the zune isnt as good but cant a company come out with a product if some 1 has already come out with and if ur talking abt zune the zune too has a revolution which apple is gonna incorporate in the ipod 6th gen (rumour) - it goes by the name wi-fi ...
th3 ied kid

th3 ied kid

Branch Unspecified
28 Apr 2007
had it not been for the MS guys years ago <read decade> i dont think i/many of us would be going easy with comps! Take IBM which was the undisputed king of OS then? All that comp was a technicallly stuck up dongles that were too complicated for laymen! Didnt MS guys come up revelutionary GUI ideas? Didnt they introduce WIN++ as option for that dark-lit-room kinda DOS!I believe their introduction was innovative! i dont say i wouldnt have been here, had there been no MS coz there could have been another GATES guy!
well i agree with one thing, like LINUX original edtn was free, atleast now MS can release all those OLD WIN OS for free! MY pick would be WIN98 then!


well MS has everyri8 to innovate,upgrade,recreate or drestroy its works!WOULD you call that monopolising? okz no jokz,but how many of us use redhat? why if less? coz it aint that good at marketing in far off countries?

market strategies of MS at times are screwed up! Well think wat if MS planted bomb like bugs in all its OS and would that translate to mass techno-cide? NOT probably in those developed countries coz of innumerable options of OS they've got to choose from!
;-);-);-)


no_atkt

no_atkt

Branch Unspecified
28 Apr 2007
th3 ied kid
market strategies of MS at times are screwed up! Well think wat if MS planted bomb like bugs in all its OS and would that translate to mass techno-cide? NOT probably in those developed countries coz of innumerable options of OS they've got to choose from!
didnt get wat u r implying from ur last statement and just for knowledge MS did not come up with the GUI ... it was Xerox who made it !!!!
desijays

desijays

Branch Unspecified
06 May 2007
no_atkt
i did not even read the rest of thread
Liar 😀 haha
no_atkt
... dude any person who has been affiliated with computers and is sane knows that its only because of windows (MS) that computers are so wide spread and NOT used by a select few who either have loads of cash (mac freaks) or by geeks who wud rather type codes than clicks (linux fanboys) .... its by far the most stupid statement ... MS revolutionized computing for the world

could u care to explain tht if windows wasnt there how u wud hv been more computer savvy ...

and i read some 1 saying that vista is a rip off mac os X ... mac os x has features which windows introduced .... cud u tell me what was ripped and then may b i will b able to tell u who came out with what first

and for the dude who said that ipod from apple was a revolution id say apple copied the idea from sony's walkman so dont say ms copied apple .... its competition .... though the zune isnt as good but cant a company come out with a product if some 1 has already come out with and if ur talking abt zune the zune too has a revolution which apple is gonna incorporate in the ipod 6th gen (rumour) - it goes by the name wi-fi ...
plz, not you again. i thought i was already done with you. Im not gonna provoke biggie to lock this thread again. You do the honours this time if you want.

Am too tired with this Windows vs Linux vs Mac vs "something else" OS stuff.....just like everyone else.

Am serious. Do this. Take hundred of your best friends that like to lap up anything microsoft makes. Go to Redmond.

Go to his office. Strangle his neck gently. Look him in the eye. And then wait for a few seconds.

Now ask him 4 questions.

1st -> Was windows an original idea?

Im not talking abt vista. Im talking abt the first one that came out.

2nd -> How good is windows compared to Linux?

if he says windows is better hands down, remind him about the leaked emails from the companies internal email server that were written by him that has been doing rounds on the internet for awhile now.........

3rd -> Ask him to elaborate the details of the license sold with the OS to end users and what it entails MS to do?

if he says, MS spies on its users, he is spot on. Otherwise i'll refer you to some places that say otherwise.

4rth -> And finally ask him whose copying who?

he should be stumped at that. But knowing him, he might as well pretend or act so very well that he might convince.

he should be putty by now. and perhaps you too. go back home and relax. THE END.

and in your reply don't waste ur time, telling me to go instead. Im allergic to Microsoft and BS. 😉

In any case, I know your gonna post a huge rant.... or a small rant saying Microsoft is this, microsoft is that. Windows is too good. i beta tested that and this. you don't know stuff. Or ur gonna quote particular parts of this post to reply in retaliation with a double edged word sword.

Save it. I already did it for you.

BUt if you're twitchy fingers can't resist the urge to type...then be my guest in a house that has no host!!! meaning i wont be coming back any time soon. Atleast not to this thread. I know, you don't care. !! but none the less, still friends ? 😉
06 May 2007
😎 Biggie is watching!

Its time to chill the flame! Reading the replies, I can't resist my urge to post 😉 . I've used both Vista & OSX for quite some time & let me tell you, Vista did 'lift' *few things* from the Appy folks. If anyone really wants me to post which features I'm talking about, let me know, I'll happily post them in the thread.

MS might not have done a revolutionary work in the world of OS, but they have done a fantastic job in bringing the computer to the common man. I am sure there won't be counter arguments to this.

Before I conclude, we are a gang of engineers & let's keep that in mind (I attended a outbound training program on team building & it has an ever-lasting effect on my mind). I'll answer Desijay's question for everyone -
I know, you don't care. !! but none the less, still friends ? :wink:
YES! 😁

Let us keep the debates healthy & packed with knowledge.

-The Big K-
no_atkt

no_atkt

Branch Unspecified
06 May 2007
desijays
plz, not you again. i thought i was already done with you. Im not gonna provoke biggie to lock this thread again.
as long as u keep posting ridiculous posts il be there ...
desijays
You do the honours this time if you want.
its his forum he has the right to do what he feels is best for his venture
desijays
Was windows an original idea?
u seem to know the answer ... prove that 'windows' was not his original idea
desijays
How good is windows compared to Linux?
every OS has its own advantages and dis-avantages ... its the user who decides which suits him .... not some OSS user who goes around posting statements like he is the scrouge of the planet he should be bannd .... for u as a user an OSS does ur job better than Windows for me or others (and i mean more than 70% of the world) windows as an OS does what we want it to better than linux
desijays
Ask him to elaborate the details of the license sold with the OS to end users and what it entails MS to do?
dont need the details as i am as a user getting the best out of my investment in a MS software ... rest i dont care and if u say others care ... ithink the pthers comprise of only a handful of OSS users

MS is spying on me ... hmmmm ... u got any proof of that coz this is the first time iv read that MS is pying on me
desijays
finally ask him whose copying who?
every 1 ... linux has a gui very similar to windows ... is that counted as copying ... and as far as time machine is concerned ... windows has had system restore since i think windows 2000
desijays
go back home and relax. THE END.
... my advice dont reply coz OSS users can only cry about the fact that MS is not letting them grow and blah blah ...

Winners make the rules ... whiners play by them;-)
desijays
In any case, I know your gonna post a huge rant.... or a small rant saying Microsoft is this, microsoft is that. Windows is too good. i beta tested that and this.
im talking facts u seem to be living in ur own little world and based on what u have read on other forums about windows u come here ranting windows is a scrouge ... proofs please ... and dont come with leaky mails about what MS is thinking of doing to OSC ... its all fair in business ...
desijays
you don't know stuff.
u seem to know more than bill gates himself ... dude if u have any proof of any crap u have posted ... post it here and lets see .... if u dont have proof dont go about rranting with foolish statement as MS is a scrouge ...
no_atkt

no_atkt

Branch Unspecified
06 May 2007
The_Big_K
Let us keep the debates healthy & packed with knowledge.
tell fellow members to come here with facts and not with un-wanted flames as MS is a scrouge ...
06 May 2007
One more flammed reply & this thread gets locked.

-The Big K-
no_atkt

no_atkt

Branch Unspecified
06 May 2007
in tht case y dont u take the initiative and direct this thread towards some sense and tell members to not to post flame statements like MS is a scrouge ...
xheavenlyx

xheavenlyx

Electronics and Communication
06 May 2007
Should I jump in to lock this thread? 😛 lol

Well, I think it cannt be generalized. We all have something to complain about any OS, be it MS or LinuX.

My biggest prob with MS is that its Hardware is virtualized. I cannot access Ports easily without using a third party .dll file or going thru some hoops.

Point 2 is that its not customizable. Like one price for all the features I would not use, even if I dont need many many of the things (This is highly personal and depends on person to person, on what they need.) If I want 'some' limitd features, the price will not be reduced. But I think its very suitable for many applications that I normaly use after downloading or purchasing them on XP. (I presently don't like Vista*)

Thats it. I love using XP everyday and mom would love MS too but we cant blame people who dont want to mess with Kernels and complete customization (LinuX). Its their choice. However I think MS must be much more flexible in their pricing strategy.

And fellows remembers, YOU might think ONE is better than the OTHER. BUT others might not agree. Some even love CLI interfaced older IBM OS's! Its all about the need.

Bytheway, i am in the way (lazily) of writing an article on multi-booting HP laptops. Mine has Vista+XP+Ubuntu and its fun to run all of em for different purposes.😛😛

* Vista is like a Ferrari and I prefer a car JUST to commute, not showoff or look at. I care only for my work, and nothing more. My friend however loves vista and keeps telling me what he does etc...My only ans is. MATLAB does not work on vista yet so dont talk about it.😀
no_atkt

no_atkt

Branch Unspecified
06 May 2007
i am not saying that windows is better than linux ... all im objecting to is ridiculous statements like ... if windows wudnt have been ther we wud have had been more technically advanced or MS is scrouge and stuff like that

iv said in myprevious post ... for some linux solves their purpose better and for some windows ... its the end users choice ... no 1 can come and say this is better or that is better ... what u want linux does better ... be happy with it ... for me my windows does better ... im happy ... why do u want to prove that u are more technically smart coz u r using OSS and the other person is a fool and he has no clue about what he is talking ... rest if u dont like windows dont like ... i give a damn ... but statements like MS is a scrouge and should be banned ..... are the 1s admins and moderators should not allow
06 May 2007
I'd hate to comment, but can't resist.

The posts are owned by the original posters & therefore all the opinions are respected. It makes no sense to 'disallow' statements like the one in question, because that would be a ban on the freedom of speech. Only the comments that break the protocol would be removed.

No further explanations.

-The Big K-
desijays

desijays

Branch Unspecified
06 May 2007
no_atkt
i am not saying that windows is better than linux ... all im objecting to is ridiculous statements like ... if windows wudnt have been ther we wud have had been more technically advanced or MS is scrouge and stuff like that

iv said in myprevious post ... for some linux solves their purpose better and for some windows ... its the end users choice ... no 1 can come and say this is better or that is better ... what u want linux does better ... be happy with it ... for me my windows does better ... im happy ... why do u want to prove that u are more technically smart coz u r using OSS and the other person is a fool and he has no clue about what he is talking ... rest if u dont like windows dont like ... i give a damn ... but statements like MS is a scrouge and should be banned ..... are the 1s admins and moderators should not allow
relax mate. i think you need to chill a bit. its not my intention to hurt your sentiment. None the less, think about it.

Ultimately, the truth is we are still niggling with the issues of petty operating systems..

bloody hell, there are far more important things in life like ............. beer. 😉

i suggest we take a stub for ourselves and a pitcher to the rest of thread !!!!!!!!

CHEERS

but that doesn't mean i think differently of windows or that you should about linux. we all are entitled to our opinions as biggie said.

its just that we wont be sending any word missiles to each other. well, i won't 😀

I dont want to make you my enemy when i haven't even given you the chance to be my friend. That would be unfair on my part.

i hope you think likewise. 😀

I hope this thread wont need locking..
xheavenlyx

xheavenlyx

Electronics and Communication
07 May 2007
https://www.lafkon.net/tc/

Whatch the above video. Comment on it if you did. DONT comment on it if you have just seen the main page and not seen the vid.
no_atkt

no_atkt

Branch Unspecified
07 May 2007
The_Big_K
It makes no sense to 'disallow' statements like the one in question, because that would be a ban on the freedom of speech.
a little contradictory to ur past actions i may say, if u lock a certain post that means u have dis-allowed a member to express his views on that topic which in other words is a direct ban on freedom of speech 😉

@xheavenly:

nice video ... what does that have to do with MS's products being screwed up ...?
againsttcpa.com
The TCPA was founded 1999 by Compaq, HP, IBM, Intel and Microsoft. But in the meantime around 200 companies joined them. You will find Adobe, AMD, Fujitsu-Siemens, Gateway, Motorola, Samsung, Toshiba and many other well known companies. IBM already sells first desktops and notebooks with integrated TPM.


every 1 is party to it and personally having read what the site has to offer i too have my reservations about it, but that doesnt mean MS's products are screwed up i fail to understand the rationale of the video having anything to do with MS alone

and the site also says it is at hardware first then at the software so forget MS, stop bying ur hardware ... dont buy from intel or amd ... lets see how u make a pc then ... dont say u will use 8086 😁

desijays
we all are entitled to our opinions as biggie said.
yes and we should not try to enforce our opinion on others 😉
desijays

desijays

Branch Unspecified
07 May 2007
@atkt

its not about microsoft any more. this is much bigger than that.

@xheavenly

thanks for the eyeopener. after going through the video and the website, im still utterly devasted.

Trust me on this mate. This is gonna be one long war. Its gonna seperate the world. I thought it was just microsoft. Now we have to fight the other 169 too?

It is consoling to note that sony and google are not on that list.

Okie, for those who don't have the time to go through the video or the website, here is the gist...

-> TCPA or Trusted Computing Alliance is a congregation of 170 companies.

-> The TCPA is proposing the use of a hardware chip also called the Fritz chip to prevent people from using illegal software, movies, music and etc

-> The TCPA chip resides on your motherboard. Whenever a new application is installed or used, the fritz chip checks to see if it is TCPA conformant. (ie) if it is digitally signed by a 2048 bit encryption key governed by the TCPA authority in the united states

-> If a software maker tries to make software that is not TCPA conformant, then he/she is liable to a penalty of 5 years in prison with/without a 500000 $ fine. If the software maker breaks the law for the second time, he/she is liable to 10 years in prison.

-> Every software must be TCPA conformant if it is to be used in a TCPA conformant hardware. Even the OS. HP has apparently started on a TCPA conformant version of Linux.

-> Slowly other OS's will follow suit. They will refuse to install on a system that is TCPA non-conformant.

-> This will swiftly be followed by movies and music needing TCPA conformant hardware to view or listen.

-> The TCPA organisation want to install the fritz chip in every hardware...... including the

graphics cards - say bye to 100 Rs games
sound cards - say bye to copying music from your friends hard drive
display adaptors - even what can be seen by you will be controlled by the TCPA

and microsoft even wants to rig the keyboard with a fritz chip ( spying ).

-> what this means is that....... indirectly.... even though you own your computer, it is still being controlled by the TCPA.

-> The open source movement will not exist because its charter prevents it from writing software for closed source architecture. And as a result will remain non TCPA conformant. And since non TCPA conformant software cannot run on a TCPA conformant system... the open source movement will slowly die.

thats about it. This is what i understood. sorry if i've misunderstood anything. Correct me in that case.

But i still suggest it is better to go through the website and watch the video. i have omitted quite a lot.

if you understand the gravity of the situation and are scared... hmm... well..... you should be.

im sure there will be the naysayers saying someone will come along to crack this up just like all the times when companies came up with some new scheme to thwart piracy. I thought same. But Im afraid, this time, things have got a bit serious.

FACT : There is no computer in the world that can crack an encryption that is encrypted using a 2048 bit cyper. There is a method. Its called the brute force approach. The fastest computer on earth is mind bogglingly fast. But there are 2^2048 permutuations in a 2048 key. Do the math. You can crack such a key by 2030 if you start today using that mind bogglingly fast computer.

FACT : Fritz uses a 2048 key.

my personal opinion: Im not against companies wanting to be duely paid for their intelluctual property ( software, movies, music, games... etc ). that is their right.

But im against the fact that these companies have to lay siege on my rights to accomplish all that.

I hope no one's offended cos of me quoting this.....

The last line in "Afroman" (song) says,

"F**k the corporate world. Bee-atch".

Now i know why!!

Note: I read in the website that IBM has already started making desktops and laptops with the fritz chip in a deactivated state. so that when TCPA conformant software becomes available, they can run them without problems.
no_atkt

no_atkt

Branch Unspecified
07 May 2007
why is not about Microsoft anymore or u agree that MS porducts are not screwed up 😁

computing is changing and becoming troublesome by the day ... damn
desijays

desijays

Branch Unspecified
07 May 2007
i said its not about microsoft anymore cos i think the TCPA is a bigger headache.

Where an aspirin might do to offset microsoft's headache, im afraid nothing short of an invasive brain operation will offset the TCPA. Even then, the results are debatable.

as for whether microsoft's products are screwed up or not.......

well, that won't matter if the TCPA gets going.
xheavenlyx

xheavenlyx

Electronics and Communication
09 May 2007
@no_atkt

The reason people attack M$ is precisely because of this fact. Related to TCPA NOW known as (TCG) Trusted_Computing_Group! including SONY! I still love the company products but heck its getting harder and harder making em open source like the PSP Home Brew etc.

A quote
The group has faced widescale opposition from the free software community on the grounds that the technology they're developing has a negative impact on the user's privacy and can create customer lock-in , especially if it's used to create DRM applications.

The link to the description is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing_Group

And its not that the hatred is towards the software (Windows) in general, but towards the policies involved to comply before we can use the product! If $20 stripped down plain Windows was available I would have loved it! And for others the $135 with everything, I would not mind.

And if Digital Rights Management (DRM) development keeps up, like Vista has done (I dont know till what extent) then simply think that 'in the future' you would not be able to play mp3's without the permission or buying them. No downloaded videos etc. And the best of all PRESENTLY you cant play HDTV movies unless you have a HDTV monitor or TV, and I dont mean not goo quality. BUT zero video, you absolutely cannot watch premium content without premium hardware! This is where TCG plays a role. Here from the horses mouth: https://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/stream/output_protect.mspx

To make head or tale of what Im talking about look at these elaborate articles, they are very very informative:

A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection ( HUGE ! ! )- https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html


Microsoft Vista creates DRM insanity - https://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=25124


Microsoft Vista means you need new monitors -https://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=25094


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Now for a Good News. Groups like Paradox and 'other cracker groups who i have forgotten' will always be there.

Like my dad says: "Where there's a lock there's always a way to 'open' it! 😀 "
desijays

desijays

Branch Unspecified
09 May 2007
xheavenlyx
Like my dad says: "Where there's a lock there's always a way to 'open' it! 😀 "
i'll always remember that mate 😀

And a "key" instead "way" would sound better I guess. Would it ?

i really want this whole TCPA thing to flunk and be an utter disaster. I'll be honest about one thing though.

Ever since xheavenly told me about the TCPA and its intention to extend its long ugly arm around the globe, Im reminded of the Terminator series of movies( both 1, 2 and 3 ) where it was a war to uphold the spirit of freedom( FSF ) against the machines made by skynet, that wanted nothing but total control( TCPA ) through annihilation !!
xheavenlyx

xheavenlyx

Electronics and Communication
14 May 2007
Yea actually, I was thinking of keeping 'key'. But here the key for these locks is with the corporate world. The 'way' is with the people who are against the c0rp.
desijays

desijays

Branch Unspecified
16 May 2007
xheavenlyx
Yea actually, I was thinking of keeping 'key'. But here the key for these locks is with the corporate world. The 'way' is with the people who are against the c0rp.
😀. that was well said mate.

{increasing message length}
no_atkt

no_atkt

Branch Unspecified
16 May 2007
no can help it when u want to live in a world of fantasy and mi-guide others by ur simple lack of knowledge!!

DRM - yes vista has drm ever cared as to why it has even though bill gates is against it ... ther are organisations like RIAA and MPAA in existence thanks to whom a company who has a corporate structure and a legal existence (unlike Linux) has been forced to do so ... and also not to forget the EU

VIsta requires u to buy a new monitor :? vista ultimate (with aero) works perfect on a p4 with 512 mb ram with an intel mobo and any decent monitor
xheavenlyx

xheavenlyx

Electronics and Communication
16 May 2007
*Read Whole Article Please*

Can you quote me saying that '..you require a new monitor or hardware to run only Vista?'

As I will quote myself again:

best of all PRESENTLY you cant play HDTV movies unless you have a HDTV monitor or TV, and I dont mean not goo quality. BUT zero video, you absolutely cannot watch premium content without premium hardware! This is where TCG plays a role. Here from the horses mouth: https://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device...t_protect.mspx
Ill explain it just once more:

'cant play HDTV movies' : means you cannot play High Definition Videos which is also what I mean by premium content.

'
premium hardware' is the output where the videos goes. Not where you see Vista desktop. It can be same or different depending on the user set up like external displays etc.

This scheme is known as
Protected Video Path - Output Protection Management (PVP-OPM) (Link)

Read about it. Actually yes you can say its good as it protects piracy but this also hinders Open Source developers to actually write hardware drivers for Open source operating systems.

Wiki: The scheme relies on the internals of graphics cards to tell whether the hardware is trustworthy (permitted to play copy-protected content).

And if PVP-OPM relies on the internals then ofcourse the drivers will be locked and kept a secret since if the hacker knows this, he/she can write codecs to decode the DRM protected content.

All this information is from reading! If you close your mind and say things like "...legal existence (unlike Linux)..." then really no one can help you. Please for your own good read about CC (Creative Commons) and GPL (General Public License).

Seriously tell me if you have read the two Inquirer articles?

However one thing I liked was that you are right about Bill Gates not liking DRM: Here is a nice one from Engadget

AND AGAIN: Its not about Microshoft anymore. Its about TCG and DRM and Anti-OSS!

Another FUN article: https://gizmodo.com/gadgets/steve-jobs/steve-jobs-on-drm-it-must-die-234448.php

*Read Whole Article Please*
desijays

desijays

Branch Unspecified
16 May 2007
no_atkt
VIsta requires u to buy a new monitor :?
vista does require you to buy a new monitor if it doesn't support protection for the content that is being streamed across it (HDTV for example). If the desktop also requires the same kind of protection then a new monitor is necessary.

Now why would MS let that happen. The desktop is under their control and so they can implement it with the rules or without it. The media content ( protected movies, songs, etc ) are copyrighted.

And this is true not only for monitors, it is true for every piece of hardware that will use some form of DRM rules.

no_atkt
vista ultimate (with aero) works perfect on a p4 with 512 mb ram with an intel mobo and any decent monitor
PERFECT?? lol
no_atkt

no_atkt

Branch Unspecified
16 May 2007
why are blaming MS for implementing drm standards blame the content providers, drm is for media files MS doesnt provide audio or video others do ... blame them .... and yeah its perfect !!
xheavenlyx

xheavenlyx

Electronics and Communication
16 May 2007
I am not blaming MS. Its not them, Bill anyway is against DRM. Its the whole bandwagon of corporate world.

Anyway for a little fun have a look at this:



Its amazing 😀 Even more effects are download-able. And it can run on 1GB without a hitch! Best of all its free.

(I have it installed too, just needs a little more personalization will end in a few days)
no_atkt

no_atkt

Branch Unspecified
16 May 2007
youtube has loads of such desktops and also some screenshots on other forums are jaw dropping ppl have spent/wasted so mcuh time doing something like tht its amazing ... if MU didnt have those files i to wouldv done something

PS: its good to see member attitudes changing a bit ... they dont hate MS prodcuts now they aint against MS ...
Ashraf HZ

Ashraf HZ

Communications
13 Jul 2007
oh man.. this debate has waivered a bit 😛 TCPA? Thats a new thing to me.. thanks for the heads up!

Um.. Microsoft products are user friendly. XP is running fine and dandy as long as its patched up. Me happy with their products 😀 But I open sourced software rocks too!
M.Malik

M.Malik

Branch Unspecified
14 Jul 2007
Gosh, this is my first post on this website. All I want to add to this thread is that at least linux/shareware is giving Microsoft some serious competition on the desktops. Even if you already like Microsoft, the competition makes it improve its products. And if you don't, then you're probably using that shareware.
MaRo

MaRo

Branch Unspecified
14 Jul 2007
Microsoft is the best software company ever
xheavenlyx

xheavenlyx

Electronics and Communication
15 Jul 2007
@M.Malik you have actually pointed out a very interesting thing😀 never thought of it this way.

And actually microsoft is awesome if we look at how useful it is for home use. I use it all the time, and Linux has other markets too, like Embedded systems, Real-time systems, Servers etc.

The place where I live, owned by one of the biggest gov property establishment Emaar in Dubai (Biggest cuz there are very few there) gives its TV suscribers Set-Top-Boxes (IPTV systems) which run on Linux embedded systems.Again I say Microsoft has its own place 😀
M.Malik

M.Malik

Branch Unspecified
17 Jul 2007
xheavenlyx
@M.Malik

The place where I live, owned by one of the biggest gov property establishment Emaar in Dubai (Biggest cuz there are very few there) gives its TV suscribers Set-Top-Boxes (IPTV systems) which run on Linux embedded systems.Again I say Microsoft has its own place 😀
ok, this is off topic. Xheavenlyx, are there many Indians in Dubai? If so, what parts of india do they seem to be from? [I once went to KL, malaysia, and the indians there mostly seem to be tamils.]
xheavenlyx

xheavenlyx

Electronics and Communication
21 Jul 2007
Umm, yea Biggie forgive us, just for this reply, if there is more then we will create a new thread on chit chat 😁

Well, M.Malik, Dubai has a total pop of about 2 mil people, and this might sound surprising, only about 20% are local arabs there. Others are from Europe, Americas and East asia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai#Demographics

In the indian community there are mostly:

Gujraties: Old businesses, and very rich.
Sindhies: Same as above but richer.
South Indians: Ranging from the biggest business owners which helped Dubai develop to the many awesome workers seen in every other niche!
North Indians: Etc etc... a lot of range too mostly normal working class.
Prasad Ajinkya

Prasad Ajinkya

Branch Unspecified
30 Aug 2007
You know what, arent we all digressing just a wee bit here 😀. To be completely fair and honest, about MS different products, heres what I think -

  1. MSDos. Loved it till 6.22v. Win 3.1 was also good (hectic, but good). A complete copy but it worked.
  2. Win98/Ce/Me/Nt - Cement. Thats where I would put those.
  3. XP, 2k - Usable as OSes. Stuck with them for a good 4 years. But still inferior to other non-MS OSes
  4. Vista - Bloated bugbear, wouldnt want to use it.
  5. Office - I like this product 😀. I cant live without this one. Very user friendly. Yes, this is an MBA talking. But the freeware versions dont compare to this one. Office 2007 is bloated, but I am using XP and 2003. Worth the 12k of investment. No kidding :-D.
  6. AoE series - The game. Its made by MS, and it rocks, amazing replay value.
  7. Dungeon Siege series - A good mix up ripoff of all RPGs, a chic copy with no money movies.
  8. IE - I refrain to call it a product. Its a bug. Period 😁
I would say, not all MS products are screwed up 😀, you have to give it to them for taking an idea and really jazzing it up. Not to mention bundling other products.
xheavenlyx

xheavenlyx

Electronics and Communication
01 Sep 2007
Correction: In 90's 98 was way better in our old crappy machines.
And I agree 200% on other points!! 😀
Ashraf HZ

Ashraf HZ

Communications
05 Sep 2007
I had used Windows 2000 SP4.. absolutely rock solid!

Regarding games.. Freelancer was a cool space sim 😀 and.. dont forget HALO! Kick ass game.

My uni gave a subsidised copy of Microsoft Office 2003 Pro for around RM 4 (just about $1). Who can resist that?? I wonder how much they had to pay for the licences though (all have the same product keys). Works like a charm.. They offered Windows XP for the same price, but turns out it's just an upgrade CD.

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