frodo.rok
frodo.rok
Branch Unspecified
29 Dec 2008

A possible way of Green (Pollution-Free) generation of electricity

Category: The problem(s) I'd love to solve (as an engineer).

Content: Present day civilization is facing the need of a source of energy that will Produce electrical energy being pollution-free, efficient, cost-effective,reliable etc. Almost all of the available sources of green (pollution-free) energy have some disadvantages. Either they are not purely pollution free or not cost effective or not efficient or are not reliable etc. The purpose of this article is to highlight a possible natural source of energy that has the potential to fulfill the need.

Electric Eel or Electrophorus Electricus, is a kind of neurotropical knifefish has the amazing ability to discharge strong electric pulses of 500Volt (avg.) and 1 Amp.(avg.) Electric Eels of 103.6Cm. (avg.) in length and 20 kg. (avg.) in weight can discharge electrical energy of 3.1 Joule/Impulse. If an Electric Eel discharges 16667 numbers of such pulses per day, which they are seemed to be capable of, then the amount of electrical energy per day discharged by an electric Eel will be almost 50K Joule, i.e. almost 50K Joule of energy can be discharged by an electric Eel per day (research needed).

Electric Eels are of 2mtr. Avg. in length and 20kg. avg. in weight, They preferred to live in fresh muddy water, feed on fish, small mammals etc. Electric Eels are habitat of Amazon and Orinoco river basin in South America.

Using 50kJoule of energy per Eel per day we can have sufficient energy for a 10Mwatt power plant operating on peak load throughout the day from 18 Million (approx) nos. of Eel. Then why don’t we have a Electric Eel Power Plant? Probably because of the unreliable and inferior quality of energy available from Eels. This kind of energy which is intermittent and in pulsed form, directly will not be of any use. But if we can tap this energy to generate other form of energy like chemical energy of Hydrogen and Oxygen then we can have a good quality and reliable source of energy. Also we can store this kind of energy for future use. We can use impulses of Electric Eels for Electrolysis of Water (H2O) and produce Hydrogen (H2) and Oxygen (O2) from it. This Hydrogen and Oxygen can be used to operate Fuel Cells to generate Electrical Energy. Taking total efficiency of electrolytic cells and fuel cell as 65% a 10MWatt Power Plant will need about 30 Millions of Eel.

There is also a possibility of more efficient operation of electrolytic cell and fuel cell if they are combined in to one Cell. The operation of Fuel cell emits 48.7KJ as heat which can serve the need of 48.7 KJ of heat needed for the electrolytic cell in operation. This will make the system more efficient cost effective and naturally cooled.

Being a whole new idea rigorous research and development is needed to conclude about its possibility, practical applicability, feasibility, efficiency, cost-effectively, reliability etc.

The need of our is to explore each and every kind of possibility of having a technology that can produce Green (Pollution-Free) Power to meet our ever increasing demand of energy.This article is an initiative towards fulfilling the need.

(Ref: Electric eel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fuel cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Books:
1. Behavioral Ecology and Sociobiology by Springer-Verlag 1979
Page:311-319
2. On The Energy Source Of The Action Potential In The Electric Organ Of
Electrophorus Electicus by David Nachmansohn,C.W.Coates, Mortimer
A.Rothenberg, and M.V.Brown 1946 Page:223-231 )
29 Dec 2008
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

😀 very good !

What do our CEans say?
shalini_goel14

shalini_goel14

Branch Unspecified
29 Dec 2008
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

Hi frodo.rok !!

Please don't mind but most of the stuff is just going over my head. Anyways good problem to solve, will be quite interesting .👍
durga ch

durga ch

Communications
29 Dec 2008
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

I agree Shalini.. a bit over my head as well.. but Frido... you are inspiring to do write more fast and quickly....😀
29 Dec 2008
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

If you didn't understand anything, you may always ask questions to the author of the article 😀
mayurpathak

mayurpathak

Branch Unspecified
29 Dec 2008
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

Mr. Frodo Baggins 😀

Tell me where will you find 18 million Eels?
Ashraf HZ

Ashraf HZ

Communications
29 Dec 2008
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

Interesting article. I think its been a while since frodo posted!
frodo.rok

frodo.rok

Branch Unspecified
30 Dec 2008
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

mayurpathak
Mr. Frodo Baggins 😀

Tell me where will you find 18 million Eels?
This is a whole new idea, so we must start from level basic.
as I said the idea need rigorous research and development.
We can have program of fishery or something like that for having that huge nos. of Eel.
Eels can lay 17000 of eggs(avg.) at one time.
frodo.rok

frodo.rok

Branch Unspecified
30 Dec 2008
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

shalini_goel14
Hi frodo.rok !!

Please don't mind but most of the stuff is just going over my head. Anyways good problem to solve, will be quite interesting .👍
I have not gave any details of calculation so probably that is causing problem to understand the article.
But the main Idea is:
Utilize the Electric Organ Discharge of the Eels and use the Electrical energy to produce Hydrogen and Oxygen from Water by Electrolysis.
Then use this Hydrogen and Oxygen to operate Fuel Cell.
Thats all.
frodo.rok

frodo.rok

Branch Unspecified
30 Dec 2008
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

durga
I agree Shalini.. a bit over my head as well.. but Frido... you are inspiring to do write more fast and quickly....😀
Ask me questions. I will definitely try to answer you.
shalini_goel14

shalini_goel14

Branch Unspecified
30 Dec 2008
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

frodo.rok
I have not gave any details of calculation so probably that is causing problem to understand the article.
But the main Idea is:
Utilize the Electric Organ Discharge of the Eels and use the Electrical energy to produce Hydrogen and Oxygen from Water by Electrolysis.
Then use this Hydrogen and Oxygen to operate Fuel Cell.
Thats all.

Hi frodo,

I have few questions before going into the depth of this basic idea:

1. What is the average efficiency of a power plant? I mean what is the % difference between efficiency of a normal power plant and Electric Eel Power plant?

2. How much cost-effective it is in comparision to other power plants set up in India? I mean around how much it is going to cost me for importing those Eel from South America and then setting up an aquaculture in India?

I will keep on asking more questions. Please answer these 😀. Thanks
Ashraf HZ

Ashraf HZ

Communications
30 Dec 2008
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

Some genetic engineering might help increase the electrical output of these eels 😀
frodo.rok

frodo.rok

Branch Unspecified
30 Dec 2008
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

shalini_goel14
Hi frodo,

I have few questions before going into the depth of this basic idea:

1. What is the average efficiency of a power plant? I mean what is the % difference between efficiency of a normal power plant and Electric Eel Power plant?

2. How much cost-effective it is in comparision to other power plants set up in India? I mean around how much it is going to cost me for importing those Eel from South America and then setting up an aquaculture in India?

I will keep on asking more questions. Please answer these 😀. Thanks
Efficiency depends on nature of power plant.Steam power plant have 25% (approx.), Hydroelectric Power Plant 85% (approx.) and so on.

In the sixth paragraph of my article I have given explanation about why I cannot predict the cost effectiveness and efficiency of the Electric Eel power plant.
Though I can indicate some possibility which will be totaly theoretical.
Electric Eel Power Plant can have efficiency about 65% or so. And the initial cost will be high due to huge amount of space and construction works needed. But operation and maintenance cost will be low.
And about importing Eels, well I dont think it will be feasible to bring all the Eels from South America. I think we can have some pair of specimen and with a fishery program we can reproduce them and get the number of Eels we need. And this will not cost huge.
If we tie up with any efficient Zoology department of India then they can help us to define the cost-effectivity of the project.
frodo.rok

frodo.rok

Branch Unspecified
30 Dec 2008
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

ash
Some genetic engineering might help increase the electrical output of these eels 😀
Exactly. I am in agreement with you.
04 Jan 2009
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

Personally, I think the title of this article needs to be changed. Energy can never be produced.
shalini_goel14

shalini_goel14

Branch Unspecified
04 Jan 2009
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

The_Big_K
Personally, I think the title of this article needs to be changed. Energy can never be produced.

Ha ha ha !! Good point noted 😀. Energy can only be converted from one form to another. So we need to take care of food given to these Eels 😉.

@frodo.rok

Well answered my question. So keeping cost effectiveness and relaibilty aside, I have few more questions?

1. What is the average life time of these Eels?
2. What is their average diet per day?
3. How can we tap their electrical pulses? I think we should have such a mechanism that can continuously monitor their rate of pulses generation hmm😕

Please answer. Thanks 😀
frodo.rok

frodo.rok

Branch Unspecified
05 Jan 2009
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

The_Big_K
Personally, I think the title of this article needs to be changed. Energy can never be produced.
oh...I am sorry about that. I should be careful about the title.
If their is any option to change the title I am open to it.
Thanks for pointing it out.
frodo.rok

frodo.rok

Branch Unspecified
05 Jan 2009
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

shalini_goel14
Ha ha ha !! Good point noted 😀. Energy can only be converted from one form to another. So we need to take care of food given to these Eels 😉.

@frodo.rok

Well answered my question. So keeping cost effectiveness and relaibilty aside, I have few more questions?

1. What is the average life time of these Eels?
2. What is their average diet per day?
3. How can we tap their electrical pulses? I think we should have such a mechanism that can continuously monitor their rate of pulses generation hmm😕

Please answer. Thanks 😀
1. 22 Years.
2. If I know the answer then I could have calculated the operation cost.
I think it could be more efficiently answered by someone who is associated
in researching E. Eels or zoologist
3. We can place wearable Electrodes on E. Eels and feed the impulses on the
bus bars which can be placed on aquarium walls.
Yes monitoring is important because of the health of E.Eels and energy we
are getting from them etc. We can monitor them through the impulses we
get at the bus bars. Arrangements can be made to do that.
Thanks for your reply.😀
Ashraf HZ

Ashraf HZ

Communications
05 Jan 2009
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

How about: "A possible way of Green (Pollution-Free) generation of electricity" ?
shalini_goel14

shalini_goel14

Branch Unspecified
05 Jan 2009
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

frodo.rok
1. 22 Years.
2. If I know the answer then I could have calculated the operation cost.
I think it could be more efficiently answered by someone who is associated
in researching E. Eels or zoologist
3. We can place wearable Electrodes on E. Eels and feed the impulses on the
bus bars which can be placed on aquarium walls.
Yes monitoring is important because of the health of E.Eels and energy we
are getting from them etc. We can monitor them through the impulses we
get at the bus bars. Arrangements can be made to do that.
Thanks for your reply.😀
Again well answered. Please don't get irritated, can you ellaborate bit on bus bars? Will making these Eels to wear electrodes harm them?😕
frodo.rok

frodo.rok

Branch Unspecified
06 Jan 2009
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

ash
How about: "A possible way of Green (Pollution-Free) generation of electricity" ?
Yes it is good. I am okay with it. And thanks for suggesting.:smile:
frodo.rok

frodo.rok

Branch Unspecified
06 Jan 2009
Re: A possible way of production of Green (Pollution-Free) Energy

shalini_goel14
Again well answered. Please don't get irritated, can you ellaborate bit on bus bars? Will making these Eels to wear electrodes harm them?😕
No no not at all. I am not at all irritated. Rather I am feeling good that you are interested about the subject and responding to it. Thanks:smile:

Well I need to draw diagrams to make you understand what I am talking about. But the main idea is the Bus Bars will act as sink for the impulses generated by E. Eel. And feed the electricity to the electrolytic cell, and there will be another path for monitoring the impulses.

I dont think wearable electrode will harm E. Eel (research needed) but E. Eels will get a little irritated.
shalini_goel14

shalini_goel14

Branch Unspecified
06 Jan 2009
Thanks Sir for answering my queries well. I am waiting for the diagrams 😉
frodo.rok

frodo.rok

Branch Unspecified
06 Jan 2009
shalini_goel14
Thanks Sir for answering my queries well. I am waiting for the diagrams 😉
Dont call me Sir.😉
I will make the diagram available here as soon as possible.
frodo.rok

frodo.rok

Branch Unspecified
08 Jan 2009
https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=1&v...attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=f_fppfa7rp&zw

The diagram is available in the above link.
Please go through it and reply.

[The Big K: Adding the image]

[​IMG]
08 Jan 2009
frodo.rok
https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=1&v...attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=f_fppfa7rp&zw

The diagram is available in the above link.
Please go through it and reply.
Frodo - please upload your image on flickr or imageshack and then copy the complete URL in the image button.
frodo.rok

frodo.rok

Branch Unspecified
08 Jan 2009
okay Big-K

here is the link: Flickr Photo Download: scan0001
08 Jan 2009
Post updated.
frodo.rok

frodo.rok

Branch Unspecified
08 Jan 2009
I dont understand what you are talking about
frodo.rok

frodo.rok

Branch Unspecified
08 Jan 2009
got it Big-k
shalini_goel14

shalini_goel14

Branch Unspecified
22 Jan 2009
@frodo.rok

Today only saw the image. Man, what a simplified and easily understandable diagram you have shown. Is it made by you? Well done. So when you are going to get Eels in India? 😉
silenthorde

silenthorde

Branch Unspecified
23 Jul 2009
Very nice concept. But I think nature is already bearing the brunt of our past inventions. As much as this sounds exciting, it is equally painful for an eel. They use this energy to protect themselves.

This is a form of bio-electricity I reckon, but nevertheless we simply cannot put a creature through this just because we are in Desperate Damage-Control mode. Please think about it. I respect your ideas and appreciate your innovation but we haved taxed nature beyond it's capacity, and it's time we stop experimenting with it for the sake of our own existence.

We as engineers, need to do as much for sciece as for Nature. Please think about it. I might be grilled for this comment, but I truly feel for these helpless creatures.
devnty06

devnty06

Branch Unspecified
01 Dec 2009
Hi frodo.rok..
I have just gone through your thread, it was quite interesting!!
Yeah even I have heard about the elec present in eels,
but I don't how far is it possible to attain the power generation.
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