Stuff ISRO Should Be Doing Than Finding Water On Mars

Replies

• 

  durga ch

  since there are not many space enthusiast around, i will keep my opinions to myself 😀.
  nevertheless, play this video in back ground.
  
  
  
  PS: if someone doesn't agree, down-vote, please don't start an argument that this is a propaganda conspiracy. I am very aversive to conspiracy theories
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  I am a space enthusiast. But I don't get the logic behind finding water on Mars and then being happy about it.
• 

  durga ch

  i consider myself an enthusiast : I get curious to know if water was on mars, even if NASA did already, I would still want to find myself (if at all I could), I just want to know if there is water. I want to know if saturn's moon has water, I want to know if there are exo-solar systems and can we contact with them, I also want to know how big bang started ? is the concept of multiverses true? do we have parallel universes? I want to know how we evolved from star-dust. I really really want to know. So for me this MARS mission is a very exciting news. I don't care if we are doing the same experiment a millionth time, but I still want to do it.
  
  sadly, I dont get curios to know 'why' are we wasting resources on knowing if there is water or not.
• 

  Shashank Moghe

  Agree with #-Link-Snipped-# . This is what we came from. Deuterium in the Mars atmosphere would confirm there was life once (and we have strong reasons to believe so). The way we are exhausting out natural resources, it wont be long before we all have to take the leap and leave the planet (or get better at out knowledge of how to avoid a mass extinction). This can only be done through mission like MOM. Its never too late to start, and we are already late. Enemies on the borders, space tourism(!) in no way have higher priorities than discovering truths about nature.
• 

  durga ch

  @ Shashank : very true! For that matter, I would have felt equally excited even if any other country had achieved this feat!
• 

  Garvit Garg

  well its better to use 450 crores in knowing mars,than making 2500 crores worth sardar vallabhbhai statue....or making 100 or 150 crores rs illogical movies....no...??
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  You guys are mixing this up!
  
  A developed country that has already taken care of the basic infrastructure, security and amenities - or the countries that we call 'Developed' ones are justified to 'some' extent to spend money on finding water on Mars. If they have the money to send machines to Mars, they should begin thinking how to protect the Earth from potential catastrophes in future. Mars has been proven to have no atmosphere and I don't get the point of forming human colonies there. I'd rather have the money invested in changing gene combination and making human cells survive with other gases and/or zero Oxygen so that we can survive without breathing on the surface of the moon.
  
  #-Link-Snipped-# - I had the same opinion as you; but then it turns out that the statue is going to be profitable in the longer run. It's going to be 2x the height of statue of liberty and the sheer amount of foreign visitors it's going to attract will surely recover the costs in a few years. National Pride + Income from tourism = justified, IMHO.
• 

  avii

  What's the point of buying CE T Shirts? We have so many people dying everyday in India. CE T Shirt costs 300 approx, it can easily keep a poor guy fed for a week. So instead why not all donate money and help the poor?
  
  See how this argument can made? You guys no different than those idiot foreigners who always think India is so poor, why does it need Mars Mission.
• 

  durga ch

  its called as foot print. We are not investigating if there is atmosphere on Mars, everyone knows there is no atmosphere ,we are investigating how Mars lost its atmosphere, does earth stand to see the same future as MARS in few million years, we are trying to understand things beyond our earth.
  And, tourism : you are kidding me. I don't see that justification valid. I will agree that tourism is profitable when Bollywood would stop making movies in US and make movies in Gujarat with the statue as back drop, get what i mean? .
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  avii

  What's the point of buying CE T Shirts? We have so many people dying everyday in India. CE T Shirt costs 300 approx, it can easily keep a poor guy fed for a week. So instead why not all donate money and help the poor?
  
  See how this argument can made? You guys no different than those idiot foreigners who always think India is so poor, why does it need Mars Mission.

  It's a baseless argument. Let me explain.
  
  ISRO is using Government's money; which is basically the taxpayer money. CrazyEngineers is a private organisation. I'm all okay for the people like Elon Musk who are doing kick ass job privately. I'm all okay with SpaceX. I'm all okay with a Japanese company planning to build space elevator. It's private money - you do whatever you want.
  
  You aren't using Government's money to buy CE T-shirts. It's your own private money and you do whatever you want.
  
  PS: I'm out of this debate if we take the level of arguments to stupid low. Prove your point by justifying why MOM is valuable.
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  durga

  its called as foot print. We are not investigating if there is atmosphere on Mars, everyone knows there is no atmosphere ,we are investigating how Mars lost its atmosphere, does earth stand to see the same future as MARS in few million years, we are trying to understand things beyond our earth.
  And, tourism : you are kidding me. I don't see that justification valid. I will agree that tourism is profitable when Bollywood would stop making movies in US and make movies in Gujarat with the statue as back drop, get what i mean? .

  --> Ok. What's the end result? A few scientists figure out Earth will reach the same fate as Mars or some other result.
  
  I guess you also support our ex President Pratibhatai Patil doing all her luxurious foreign trips. It satisfied her curiosity and made an impression that India isn't a poor country anymore. 😀
  
  PS: Looks like I took this debate to another low with the above paragraph 😉
• 

  durga ch

  few things cant be proved, they can only be self realised. this was the basic reason I did not want to get into this debate and the same reason why I felt there are no space enthusiast. no i am saying spend all money- but i say when we say space enthusiast why don't we discuss as one? why are we getting into details on investment- is it even relevant???
  
  electrical enthusiast will spend last of his/her penny to buy electrical stuff - they just dont care the expenditure, they just buy
  randomly - i got a telescope - not that I want to become a space scientist, but I wanted to see moon everyday -the same old moon i dont care how much i spent
  gadget freaks -spend last of their penny to buy gadgets they dont care if they have food to eat next day.
  here, on ce i dont see it for space related discussions .each time we just talk about investment.
• 

  Garvit Garg

  Kaustubh Katdare

  Y
  #-Link-Snipped-# - I had the same opinion as you; but then it turns out that the statue is going to be profitable in the longer run. It's going to be 2x the height of statue of liberty and the sheer amount of foreign visitors it's going to attract will surely recover the costs in a few years. National Pride + Income from tourism = justified, IMHO.

  MOM is first successful project on mars in very first attempt (National Pride)...
  and in science we can never predict what ll be useful in future....what useless invention or discovery (for now) ll lead to...there are a lot of incidents that where never thought to be this useful when invented or discovered....but now we know its value....all we can do is know and have information about ever thing possible...and in future it ll might help us in a big way.......what do u think @Kaustabh Katdare....
• 

  Garvit Garg

  Kaustubh Katdare

  --> Ok. What's the end result? A few scientists figure out Earth will reach the same fate as Mars or some other result.

  yea If we find out that our fate is same as mars than maybe we can start working on it now....all we can do is try....And what i feel is, personally, to know the fate of mother Earth, 450 crores is not that big amount......
• 

  avii

  Kaustubh Katdare

  It's a baseless argument. Let me explain.
  
  ISRO is using Government's money; which is basically the taxpayer money. CrazyEngineers is a private organisation. I'm all okay for the people like Elon Musk who are doing kick ass job privately. I'm all okay with SpaceX. I'm all okay with a Japanese company planning to build space elevator. It's private money - you do whatever you want.
  
  You aren't using Government's money to buy CE T-shirts. It's your own private money and you do whatever you want.
  
  PS: I'm out of this debate if we take the level of arguments to stupid low. Prove your point by justifying why MOM is valuable.

  You are seeing my point from CE, see it from the guys who are spending the money. You are the producer, see it from consumer point of view. You, CE as a private body do whatever you want and I am not questioning it.
  
  I am asking to people who are the consumers.
  
  If you guys (consumers) are so worried about India and poverty, why are you spending money on a T shirt?
  
  And don't get me started on tax. I really doubt if there are any tax paying members here on CE, most of them are students.
  
  Now, coming to taxes, check how much tax we collected in the fiscal year 2012, 2013. And see how much percentage is being spent on science.
  
  There are speculations (& allegations) that BJP spent 5000 - 6000 Cr on 2014 Elections, which a black money, nothing but our tax money.
• 

  durga ch

  @ avii - congress should have used those 450crs in election campaign. oh no… BJP should have used, then that amount is justified.
  
  
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  #-Link-Snipped-# - My point is that all the space enthusiasts in the world should carry out their exploration privately. I don't know how can this be done; but there are guys like Elon Musk; who I adore for what he is doing with SpaceX. I absolutely LOVE what Richard Branson is doing with Virgin Galactic with the help of Scaled Composits - the company Burt Rutan : The Race for Space founded; and we interviewed him too!
  
  I do not undermine the achievement and success of ISRO scientists. They are people-par-excellent. I'm a space enthusiast too. I was a follower and contributor to SETI@HOME project and I've spent hours more hours than most Indians researching the Internet finding out whether man really ever landed on the moon! 😁
  
  The point I'm making is simply this: With a good government in the center, our immediate priorities should be to fix the basic problems with the help of the best of our talent. Finding water on Mars may come later and we need not prove to the world that we can do it. If my neighbours bought a BMW, I need not buy it too; just to feel 'upper class'.
  
  #-Link-Snipped-# : I'm not convinced that worrying about the unknown problems is justified. India doesn't need to do it.
  
  #-Link-Snipped-# - Okay, now I see where you're coming from. The anti-RSS / BJP discussion is separate, you see 😁. Don't cross me just for the heck of being a pro-BJP & Modi 😉 . I don't support BJP or Congress or any damn party spending user's money on campaign.
  
  I already said - People can choose anything to do with their "private" money! If they are concerned about poverty and think that donating to poor can help fix the problem: they are free to donate their money. I've no problem with it. If they want to buy CE T-shirts; we're happy 😀. But we won't object if they don't buy the tees and spend that money on feeding poor and hungry. We all will be happy if they do so. Let's keep the tees out of this, okay? We both agree that :
  

  • Private money: Blow it on whatever you want.
  • Public money: Hmm, people first!

  ---------------
  PS: I'm off until we get a solid point in support of the MOM. I need a point worthy of refuting/debating.
• 

  durga ch

  so , it means that space research like everything else is limited to rich people. thanks, i am giving up on my curiosity today,…
  
  and.. I gave up.
  
  so, whats this discussion about? why is Indian gov wasting money sending satellites to mars..??
• 

  Shashank Moghe

  Kaustubh Katdare

  I don't get the point of forming human colonies there

  The point is survival. It is not a vacation destination, it might just prove to be the only destination we are left with in the near future.
• 

  Shashank Moghe

  Kaustubh Katdare

  without breathing on the surface of the moon

  The density per sq.km would be insane. Impossible solution.
• 

  Saandeep Sreerambatla

  Interesting discussions.
  
  I really agree with Kaustubh 101%. I can spend the money i earn on anything i wish to.
  
  But, if a group or a organization gives me money to do good, then i am not going to find if there is water on mars or water somewhere else.
  
  I would first get drinking water to every indian. Pure drinking water.
  
  We people in India came to a situation like, If parties are wasting thousands crores in campaign, it is ok to spend 500 or 450 crores on science.
  
  And none of the experiments above help a common man in India who doesnt have food to eat , drink water etc.
• 

  avii

  Kaustubh Katdare

  Don't cross me just for the heck of being a pro-BJP & Modi 😉 . I don't support BJP or Congress or any damn party spending user's money on campaign.

  Sorry, you come off as a blind fan. Explained below, why.
  
  

  Kaustubh Katdare

  I had the same opinion as you; but then it turns out that the statue is going to be profitable in the longer run. It's going to be 2x the height of statue of liberty and the sheer amount of foreign visitors it's going to attract will surely recover the costs in a few years. National Pride + Income from tourism = justified, IMHO.

  yes, if longer run you mean 100 years more or less. The world famous Taj makes only 20 Cr.
  
  Source: At Rs 20 crore, Taj Mahal remains a top draw | India News - Times of India
  
  And yeah, more blind followers here: Forget Gravity, PM Modi's Sardar Patel statue will cost 4 times more than Mangalyaan-India News , Firstpost (see the comments and have fun)
• 

  Saandeep Sreerambatla

  So now the discussion is if we are OK to spend 2000 crores or something to a statue it is good to spend 450 crores to find out water on the moon!
  
  Then it is also good to spend some 1000's of crores to find out whether man really landed on moon or does end of world exist?
  
  or some theories!!
• 

  avii

  Saandeep Sreerambatla

  So now the discussion is if we are OK to spend 2000 crores or something to a statue it is good to spend 450 crores to find out water on the moon!

  Because Mangalyaan is better than a stupid statue.
  
  
• 

  Shashank Moghe

  Kaustubh Katdare

  A few scientists figure out Earth will reach the same fate as Mars or some other result

  This saddens me. We are engineers, we are brought up on the shoulders of science. We cannot have such disregard for knowledge.
• 

  Saandeep Sreerambatla

  avii

  Because Mangalyaan is better than a stupid statue.
  
  

  
  This is exactly the problem with India.
  
  We choose for something which is less worse. that choosing good or better!!
• 

  avii

  Please enlighten me how Mangalyan is worse than a Statue.
• 

  durga ch

  ok , now that I have jumped boat (i am too poor to even spell space) here are things whats ISRO should do
  
  1. provide free food for all people
  2. make sure the crime rate at sriharikota is 0%
  3. built and send satellites for other countries
  4. cheer up everytime , someone else sends a satellite as we are poor and we are forbidden the fruit of knowledge
  5. provide basic infrastructure to all indians
  6. come up with ideas to cram more pixels in mobile phones
  7. discuss mobile phones day and night and sometimes tablets
  8. repaint buses
  9. model statues , for us to depend on them to get some tourist income
  10. investigate some criminal cases
  11. provide fastest free internet services to everyone in the world
  12. make world a better place
  13. idolise mother teresa
  14. and work towards maintaining world peace
  
  
  do all random work except working on space.
• 

  durga ch

  avii

  Please enlighten me how Mangalyan is worse than a Statue.

  man -_-,
  statue stays where its installed, the satellite just left earth and will never return. Obviously statue os much much better than satellite.
• 

  avii

  durga

  man -_-,
  statue stays where its installed, the satellite just left earth and will never return. Obviously statue os much much better than satellite.

  Aha, make sense now. Why spend on something which is never going to return.
• 

  Saandeep Sreerambatla

  avii

  Please enlighten me how Mangalyan is worse than a Statue.

  I never said Mangalyan is worse than a statue. I told less worse.
  
  So Statue is the worst, and mangalyan is less worse thing.
  
  Both the things, ideally waste money and do nothing for India except having some news in headlines for a day or two.
• 

  Saandeep Sreerambatla

  Yeah with the satellite India has sent, I am so happy I am so proud that India has sent a satellite to mars and it succeeded for the first time , wow what an achievement and it identified that mars doesnt have water when some one told me already that there is no water few years ago.
  
  Amazing!!
  
  There is a saying in telugu, I dont know how to translate it. But there will be tiger and people get scared of tiger, and there is fox which draws all the stripes over its body so that people thing it is also tiger. What the forture!!
  
  First fix the ground problems, then do something like this.
• 

  Saandeep Sreerambatla

  So If ISRO is so proud of what it is doing, why cant it invent some breakthrough in communication and identify every call that is coming from terrorists?
  
  Identify bombs , identify water why cant it help people.
  
  Now if ISRO has sent that satellite, what is the use that is for me or for any common man?
  
  PS. I am against satellite and also the statue too. dont think i am supporting that Statue.
• 

  avii

  Saandeep Sreerambatla

  So If ISRO is so proud of what it is doing, why cant it invent some breakthrough in communication and identify every call that is coming from terrorists?
  
  Identify bombs , identify water why cant it help people.

  You sir, spoken like a true genius and enlightened me as well. Thanks for opening my eyes. Now I know how ISRO is being lazy and wasting money on useless projects.
• 

  Saandeep Sreerambatla

  avii

  You sir, spoken like a true genius and enlightened me as well. Thanks for opening my eyes. Now I know how ISRO is being lazy and wasting money on useless projects.

  Thanks for the sarcasm. I would be proud of ISRO if it had something different than being a copy cat!
• 

  durga ch

  yes
  
  we have to make ISRO work for all other departments in India
  water board, electricity board, telecommunications department —
  everyone should hand over their jobs to ISRO, thats how ISRO will provide purest form of water for all indians.
  
  the point is
  there are various departments which dedicatedly work on all your requirements
  ISRO stands for space research not to provide free food, water, air, internet , optical lines, chemicals, pesticides , perfumes or fashion outlets.
  
  

  Saandeep Sreerambatla

  So If ISRO is so proud of what it is doing, why cant it invent some breakthrough in communication and identify every call that is coming from terrorists?
  
  Identify bombs , identify water why cant it help people.
  
  Now if ISRO has sent that satellite, what is the use that is for me or for any common man?
  
  PS. I am against satellite and also the statue too. dont think i am supporting that Statue.

  DRDO
• 

  Dhananjay Harkare

  So, we have a debate (read argument) on this topic! People feel that ISRO should provide food-cloths-shelter to poor than to find water on Mars. Why not to request ISRO, various R&D labs, DRDO etc to shut all their operations, collect funds and provide free food to every poor in India?
  
  Edit:
  Just wanted to share my experience on similar topic:
  Here's what APJ Abdul Kalam sir said when I asked him sometime back-"why India spends money on such missions." Interested may India At Mars! My Question to Missile Man of India – Thoughts That Matter.
• 

  durga ch

  #-Link-Snipped-# :that is exactly the point few of us trying to get across here. Neverthless, be ready to get compared to Pratibha Patil spending money on trips. Proof : post#11 of this thread.
  
  —
  adding to the list of duties:
  least we forget
  -women empowerment
  -RTI
  -youth empowerment?
  
  —
  @ sandeep : would you consider water found on MARS as purest form of water what can finally be provided to the people of India and then we can move ahead in discussion??
• 

  avii

  Saandeep Sreerambatla

  Thanks for the sarcasm. I would be proud of ISRO if it had something different than being a copy cat!

  Wow, another gem. I did not know that ISRO is a copycat. Thanks sir.
  
  My knowledge space is expanding 😀
• 

  Shashank Moghe

  #-Link-Snipped-# , sir, are you really an engineer? Have you studied the same science as we did? Such remarks are associable with the least inclination and education in science. Even from a social standpoint, I think your suggestions are outrageous and lack coherence of thought. Scientifically, I would not expect anything from you, but as a fellow countryman, I expect a sound logic at the very least.
  
  What is the use of the satellite to you? Ask your great-great grandchildren when they would have settled in some Martian colony after YOU (read "our generation") have dismantled the eco-system on earth, leaving it unfit for your great-great grandchildren to live on. Look up, those stars are where YOU come from, and that is where you must return. To live in your own limited home and die is no way to live at all. We have not evolved from apes to get such brilliant brains, to not use them outside of the routine chore. If that is what we want, we are better of as apes. Science is in exploration, not utilization.
  
  If Edison and Tesla would have thought about providing water and clothes instead of using funding allotted to them on their inventions, we would still be farming and hunting for a daily living. If satellites were not sent in the 60s 70s..we would have depleted the Ozone layer and probably killed all of us by now.
  
  Space exploration is not just sending a small piece of equipment to orbit another planet. Space exploration is precision, technology and an OPPORTUNITY to uncover the truth. A million years from now (and do not dare say it is nothing related to you, for your lineage will still be around, in some way), they will look back at this day and thank us for our long-sightedness. If you are too weak to see that coming, I would happily conclude you are not a guiding light for other engineers.
  
  Tapping phone calls is not ISRO's job. If they do that, what will the police/ATS do? Space exploration? Do you even realize what you are suggesting? At least proof read your comments once.
  
  As for the copycat statement, you have made the most undereducated argument of your life. Name ONE mission to Mars with such great success rate at every stage. Totally indigenous too. Do you know what that means? If tomorrow we need to get some information or when we are thinking of interplanetary (or interstellar!) space travel, we have a strong base which started with Mangalyaan! We would have all systems building capability. We have proved it. But you wont understand this, for it takes some vision.
  
  And do not take me personally. This is not directed to you, but to countless doubters who make pathetic comparisons, obviously without knowing the gravity of the space programs. Unfortunately, many of you, at some point, will come in decision making positions. And I fear this lack of understanding will be a hurdle to the progress of science in our country.
  
  Just one last question, what engineering trade are you? Why did you choose that trade in engineering? What other options did you evaluate before beginning with engineering?
• 

  durga ch

  @ Shashank : thats a very well thought out post and I really appreciate your clarity of thought 😀.
• 

  avii

  This is ironical and makes me very sad that we are debating this on a forum which claims to be for Engineers 😐😔
• 

  Shashank Moghe

  #-Link-Snipped-# #-Link-Snipped-# and I was going to request a separate sub-form for Aerospace/Aeronautical/Engineering Physics 😁 Stupid me 😀
• 

  durga ch

  yes, it is saddening.
  I recently attended pint of science event for 3 days from 6 pm to 10:00pm , but questions went on and on till 11 pm on each day. We were all enthusiasts and then there were these astro physics , nasa engineers, local physics students , enthusiasts who came and spoke so passionately about astronomy over a jug of beer . the discussion ranged from hadron collider, higgs boson to that of detecting planets in other solar systems, how its proved that one set of building blocks (of amino acids) cannot be made on earth, how earth got showered by its mineral resources, various theories around big bang, it was very very enlightening, though I had to walk 30min to the pub and back to station at 11pm, it filled my heart. I know this thing is getting emotional, but I somehow want to make those discussions, even if we can share 1% of knowledge, its a day well spent.
  
  no, we just want to debate about politics, finances and poverty in India, alchohol, addictions and everything irrelevant . it is disheartening to say the least.
• 

  Kaustubh Katdare

  Unfortunately, this debate wagon has been derailed. I hope everyone agrees to disagree, but all in the good faith.
  
  This topic is being closed.