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India's Mars Mission Is A Waste Of Money, Resources, Time & Talent - Agree / Disagree?

Discussion in 'Debate Masterminds' started by Kaustubh Katdare, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. Kaustubh Katdare

    Kaustubh Katdare Administrator

    Engineering Discipline:
    Electrical
    Reading about India's upcoming ambitious Mars mission, I discovered that ISRO and Indian Government is spending over Rs. 450 crore to send a satellite to orbit mars. What's more shocking is mission's objective! Project directory Subbiah Arunan said that the main objective of the mission is to determine whether Mars ever had an environment that supported life.

    I see the mission as a complete waste of money, resources, time and talent. The United States has already sent a rover that has landed on Mars and has decided that there's no environment on Mars that can or ever support(ed) life. India's satellite will orbit at a distance of about 363 km (nearest) and 80,000 km (farthest) and figure out the same.

    Of course, from engineering & technology perspective, it's going to be a big achievement for ISRO (and India). But it clearly is a 'me too' mission that would prove its point at the cost of Rs. 450 crores. Do you agree? Justify.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013
  2. A.V.Ramani

    A.V.Ramani Mentor

    Engineering Discipline:
    Biomedical
    As a curious individual I do spend time and resource on (what others may consider) some totally useless activity just for my own satisfaction. The pluses of that are: I have fun, avoid watching TV and keep my 'selfishness' intact.

    ISRO cannot claim that. Part of that 450 crores is from my income tax. Better spent on making deserts in India habitable.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Kaustubh Katdare

    Kaustubh Katdare Administrator

    Engineering Discipline:
    Electrical
    @A.V.Ramani sir, Do you think ISRO's space mission is indeed not required? I think if they had different objectives for the mission; I'd have supported them.
  4. A.V.Ramani

    A.V.Ramani Mentor

    Engineering Discipline:
    Biomedical
    I was going to have a discussion with friends there. Shall revert.
  5. durga

    durga Star

    Engineering Discipline:
    Communications
    I don't consider any money spent on science is waste of money. Its not that every innovation is something eye blinding what no-one ever imagined. Most the innovations are built on preceding innovations and hence even if someone might have taken up an activity earlier, does not mean you have to just let go.. May be the way India does it might shed new light.

    Are we not being hypocritical when we complain India does not do anything innovative making a indigenous MARS satellite in itself is a challenging feat . I would rather see it a a step ahead in Indian Science rather than seeing it another me-too thing.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Kaustubh Katdare

    Kaustubh Katdare Administrator

    Engineering Discipline:
    Electrical
    It now remains to be seen what 'new' India's ISRO is doing that NASA hasn't done. I think NASA's already got more insight into the life at MARS than ISRO can have from a distance. I'm all game for money being spent on science; but ISRO seems to be reinventing the wheel. If it's not a 'me too' mission; all the money spent is justified (to some extent).

    I'd want that money to be spent on basic research than exploring what's in outer space.
  7. durga

    durga Star

    Engineering Discipline:
    Communications
    If I were Sandra Bullock with infinite supply of Oxygen and a jetpack to go around, I would never care for Goerge Clooney ( just saying).
    I don't think investing in space research is waste of money.During the project development and implementation stages, there might be other minor developments which might branch of as a field of their own. We are part of universe and knowing universe only helps us knowing earth more. yes technological research like inviting swanky glasses and all are part of it, but cannot replace space research in itself.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Jeffrey Samuel

    Jeffrey Samuel Star

    Engineering Discipline:
    Electronics
    One more thing you ought to know most info never came out from NASA's exploration of Moon

    NASA itself accepted Chandrayaan was more than successful and this was after a man landing on the moon.

    I am sure some thing is still there in outer space that is avoiding human persecption

    Earth itself is surrounded by 1000's of satellite and still we are finding new resources every now and then. Then how can we be sure that just a land rover and 15 to 20 satellites around Mars will give us more info.

    In my opinion it is more important we need to investigate into this matter more
  9. A.V.Ramani

    A.V.Ramani Mentor

    Engineering Discipline:
    Biomedical
    An update after some discussion with people in the know.
    Apparently the exercise is to develop indigenous deep space exploration capability.
    Also to to salve pride of the nation (not to mention some individuals also perhaps).

    More may come.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Ankita Katdare

    Ankita Katdare Moderator

    Engineering Discipline:
    Computer Science
    Great discussion point. I don't know how I missed this earlier.
    Here are some of my inputs -
    The main objective of ISRO’s mars mission is to check whether Mars ever had an environment in which life evolved and to explore the surface, topography, minerology and atmosphere.

    [When I read this, it seemed exactly similar to what U.S. did)

    But, it has been made clear that ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission (MOM) will see some synergy with NASA’s Mars Atmosphere and Volatile Evolution (MAVEN), which is scheduled to be launched in mid-November. Both the Space Research Organisations are expected to work together to solve the mysteries in Mars.

    Here is a point to note: NASA’s MAVEN is the first spacecraft from Earth devoted to investigating and understanding the upper atmosphere of Mars.

    To further elaborate, India’s MOM besides its technological objectives also has ambitious science goals including study of surface features and mineral composition on Mars as well as a search for methane.
    A Reuters report stated that Methane, which also can be produced by non-biological processes, was first detected in the Martian atmosphere a decade ago.

    On the other side, NASA’s MAVEN will focus on Mars' thin atmosphere. The mission is designed to help scientists figure out how the planet managed to lose an atmosphere that at one time was believed to be thicker than that of Earth.

    I hope this helps take the discussion forward in the right direction! :)
    • Like Like x 4
  11. SarathKumar Chandrasekaran

    SarathKumar Chandrasekaran Star

    Engineering Discipline:
    Automobile
    I agree to Kaustubh because in my perception,It is a utter waste of money.India is a country where still lacking many basic amenities and world bank reported that 32.7% people fall under International poverty line.For more details click here.
    So i dont think it is right to waste people's money in exploring other planets and spending all resources.Its not a good way to show off the power because no one would help us if we lack food and fight for it in future.
    Its better invest money in R&D of agriculture than any other fields.Provide more doctors,provide basic amenities. Its enough.
  12. Sada

    Sada Star

    Engineering Discipline:
    Computer Science
    Well, Do we should keep quiet and agree what NASA and others says?

    Thanking Ankita for giving very nice description. We just want to know the presence of methane on the mars. I think we should feel proud to have India in the top 6 or 7 countries to have a mission to mars.

    India, the world 's 4th largest economy, 2nd largest global market, a leading power in south asia and an emerging global power should be in the top in all the areas and in all the sectors. We should not keep quiet and ignore any area and we should not let others say. India should emerge as a leader and not as a follower.

    And poverty, unemployment, health and all, yes of course India is also doing a good job to get rid of such things. Food security act, MGNREGA, many programs and policies are being implemented by Govt to take care of them. It is wrong if we ignore them and allot money for science but we are not doing that. That's the aspect.

    And one more point is it's very glad to say that ISRO completed the project only with 450 cr. That's small amount compared to other countries who spent much more than that.

    I'm not in favor of Govt, but I just want you to have an idea from the administration point of view.
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  13. Abhishek Rawal

    Abhishek Rawal Moderator

    Engineering Discipline:
    Electronics & Communications
    Yeah sure, we can send satellites to mars to check on whether if methane exists or not & spend 450 crores over bullshit project; while in my own country I see people so hungry that they attack like a fucking dog and ripping off the hands of the people that feeds them. 60+ years of freedom & our people still poor, if you really want 'development' ,'progress' whatever; we should end this war first.

    And hey, after coal-gate, commonwealth scam, 2G scam & many other which are not revealed; do you really think ISRO will spend all 450 crores for launching satellites to find out what's the shit in Mars ? Nah! they ain't interested. I bet on my nuts, plutocrates will distribute half of the dead presidents before it even reaches to the ISRO heads.
  14. Sada

    Sada Star

    Engineering Discipline:
    Computer Science
    Now please don't take me wrong. Could you please show me a single country having no people with poverty?

    Of course I agree with you. We should eradicate poverty. Priorities are always there. India is managing all the issues simultaneously.
    The recent food security ordinance is to ensure food security to the poor which can be called as "Right to have Food".
    MGNREGA which is otherwise called "Right to Employmment".
    And we have "Right to Education".
    The problem is with the implementation of those policies which depends on various factors like lack of transparency, middlemen, decentralization etc etc. Even for that, we have got DBT which ensures transparency, efficiency and effectiveness in implementation of the policies.

    This is not related to policy and this is related to implementation which again depends on various factors like the Govt in power, decentralization etc etc.
    I don't want to spam this thread by discussing all those. But I'm open for further discussion.
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  15. Abhishek Rawal

    Abhishek Rawal Moderator

    Engineering Discipline:
    Electronics & Communications
    What I mean is, launching satellites and revolving 'em around martians doesn't implies that we're progressing. I just find it non-sense.We have our own battle to fight in India.
    I just mean that, we can utilize 450 crores for better cause.And Mars mission ain't a cause, nor a march towards 'Progress' in my damn opinion.
  16. Sada

    Sada Star

    Engineering Discipline:
    Computer Science
    PS : Sorry for spamming this thread, please permit me for few posts.

    Okay, as you are talking about the progress of a country, can we spend some time discussing about the words "Progress" and "Development"?

    Who should say that India is progressing? ---> It it we, the citizens of India? or is it the people or the heads of other neighboring countries? or is it the present global powers USA, Russia? or is it the International organizations like UNO, WTO etc etc.?

    What parameters were considered to say a country is progressing? ---> Is it only the eradication of poverty? Is it only the eradication of diseases? Is it having complete literacy? Is it the nuclear capability? Is it getting a permanent seat in UN Gen Assembly? Is it attracting the highest foreign capital? Is it doing good in services and industrial sectors? Is it self sufficiency? Is it having R&D in space, science and technology?

    And the same case with "Development".

    Remember, This 21st century belongs to Asia. As we know the top competitors to emerge as a global power are China & India. And India wants to emerge as a global power, a leader. A leader should be a leader with "ability" and "capability".
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  17. Kaustubh Katdare

    Kaustubh Katdare Administrator

    Engineering Discipline:
    Electrical
    Looks like we've a real argument going on here :) . Let's respect each other's points and yet stick to our points & arguments.
  18. Ankita Katdare

    Ankita Katdare Moderator

    Engineering Discipline:
    Computer Science
    Ok, the latest reports suggest that The Indian space agency's Mars Mission is the cheapest by any nation to the red planet! And there are attributes unique to ISRO that enable it to practice frugal engineering at the cutting edge time and again.

    When the mission blasts off, it'll carry a Rs 450-crore price tag way below what Nasa, the European Space Agency, Japan and China spent on their journey to Mars.

    The budget-conscious country is doing well at its science projects too! :)
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Abhishek Rawal

    Abhishek Rawal Moderator

    Engineering Discipline:
    Electronics & Communications
    Does that mean that, If India launches Satellites, then only we have ability & are capable of being a 'Global Power' ?
    Now for Satellites, it uses GPS, right ? And, GPS main control center is in US & obviously United States control it & they've patented the entire technology. (Game lost! right here until ISRO develops their own GPS technology)
    Providing 70% of world's IT services to world doesn't make us Super power. To be super power, we must have the power of 'controlling' everything. Which we don't have & US have it all. (No wonder why NSA is in news for their evil deeds)
    GPS is one of the evil invention of all time, I might sound paranoid but this invention of GPS is primary reason why our data privacy is in danger.
  20. Sada

    Sada Star

    Engineering Discipline:
    Computer Science
    Exactly! That's what I'm saying. See, you yourself is saying that to be a global power, we should have the power in controlling everything. So, for that, allotting 450 crores for a space project is wrong? And see, overnight we can't become a super power. We've to try, we've to keep trying, we've to keep doing, we've to keep moving towards the target.

    Coming to USA, while comparing India with USA, we need to take various factors in to consideration. We should not compare blindly like ordinary people, we are Efficient Engineers and of course Crazy Engineers ;), we should be clear and quiet true enough.
    I wish I want to make you guys clear.
    Historical - America don't have history, It's a new born country, at max it is just 4000-5000 years old.
    Political - It is the first country to get independence. First country to have constitution. Federal structure, independent Executive, Judiciary, Legislature, Powerful congress.
    Geographical - Lot of fresh water, good land resources, virgin land which increases productivity, yield of agriculture, good resources of iron, coal etc, good climate etc.
    Demo-graphical - less population, status of living of people is good.
    Technological - more mechanized, more industrialized, more Information Technology.
    Economical - I would like to say this is one of the most imp factors which we need to consider which comparing with India. Quantitative easing - they just pump millions and millions of dollars in to their market. And capitalistic economy.
    Social - Though it is a colorful country, it don't have many religions, many languages, many customs, many traditions etc like India. Even their family system is different.

    and there are many more .... and this is not the case with India.
    I'm not explaining the differences between India and USA, My intention is to say that India and USA are different. There are very few similar characteristics between India and USA. We can not compare them blindly all the time. Of course we can not compare but we can compete.
    Though India is trying hard to become self sufficient & independent in all aspects and in the process it has to focus on all the sectors and all areas and it can not ignore anything even on the GPS control system that you are saying that India is depending on US.

    So, allotting 450 cr for a space project which gives India, a recognition and which gives India, a place in the elite club is wrong?

    We've started our discussion with mars and don't know whether we are on the track or off the track now and please don't get offended. I just want to make it clear.
    If there is any problem, I can stop my arguments.
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013

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