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Indian Politics : The Aam Aadmi Party (AAP) Discussion

Discussion in 'The Café - General Discussions On Everything' started by Kaustubh Katdare, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. Anoop Kumar

    Anoop Kumar Mentor

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    I am in strong favor in this and even being in Delhi also they would have fought for LS but in this case Congress would have totally exposed as soon as AAP tries:cautious: to bring previous Delhi congress ministers under Jurisdiction.
    Now, AAP have only one job.
     
    #41
  2. Pensu

    Pensu Star

    Engineering Discipline:
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    And while we are discussing, I would like to know what people think about this:



    I am not saying Mr. Kejriwal said something wrong, manipulating media is something that everyone does from a politician to a industrialist. I don't think I need to put out what AAPtards have been doing on twitter! But when you spent a whole eternity(!) claiming that media is biased, paid, working against you, blacking you out, we are at a higher moral ground, blah, blah and then this comes out, it does questions your credibility. I guess it's like if you favor us then you are honest, if you are against us, there is a press conference coming!
     
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  3. Harshad Italiya

    Moderator

    Media:
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    I second Anoop. :)
     
    #43
  4. Anand Tamariya

    Engineering Discipline:
    IT
    Beware of hasty generalization. Just because Modi is capable doesn't mean everybody in BJP is equally capable. Similarly, just because Kejriwal has some leadership deficiency doesn't mean AAP as a party is failure. Governance is no rocket science that educated people can't do better than illiterate politicians. Some facts to remember:
    - Country is ruled by bureaucrats - not politician. They just provide the direction. India has enough entrepreneurs. What we need is less red tape and political interference.
    - LS election is not only about electing PM. It's also about electing representatives who can raise state's issues in LS.

    AAP in Bangalore is represented by following:
    V. Balakrishnan, Bangalore Central
    Prof Babu Mathew, Bangalore North
    Ravikrishna Reddy, Bangalore Rural
    Nina P. Nayak, Bangalore South

    These guys would do better justice to Bangalore's condition than candidates from other parties who have no credibility whatsoever. We need managers, not rulers. For the first time we have a chance to elect the same - I would urge people to do their due diligence and not let it pass.
     
    #44
  5. Anoop Kumar

    Anoop Kumar Mentor

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    Is this debate about LS polls (country perspective) or regional one?

    The biggest reason to support BJP in LS poll and I am 100% agree with Kiran Bedi.
    Carefully listen @ 2:05
     
    #45
  6. Kaustubh Katdare

    Administrator

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    @Anand Tamariya - Agreed. Ultimately, we'll be voting for our local candidates. None of AAP's candidates have any proven track record of governance. Getting things done from other people while remaining a part of the system is a special skill that no school or University teaches. It's something learnt by being in the system longer, without really becoming a part of the system (a lot of word-play there?). I hope my point is well received.

    I personally support Modi because among all the candidates; he seems to be the most capable and has a proven track record of development in Gujarat. He's shown that he can get the things done for the people using the same-old BJP candidates in Gujarat who individually may not be very effective.

    You've gotta have the top man capable enough to have a vision and have a proven track record of delivering.

    Unfortunately, AAP has no proven track record and even their top boss has become famous for taking U-turns. Most of their candidates seem to be totally new to the system itself. Most of their candidates seem to be from the corporate world (journalists, businessmen, bankers) and few are from social service backgrounds.

    My only demand is that Arvind Kejriwal should have proven his administrative skills in Delhi and taken up smaller states one by one. Their immediate jump to national scene seems to be inspired by only one agenda : Stop Modi from becoming PM. That's exactly what Congress wanted. AAP is nothing but the b-plan of Congress. Because they themselves can't taken on Modi; and must have a 'clean proxy', which is Kejriwal.
     
    #46
  7. Pensu

    Pensu Star

    Engineering Discipline:
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    @Anand Tamariya : Well, at least you are ready to accept that Kejriwal has faults, that's a good start! I agree that local candidates matter, and we should think about that too. But what's with Meera Sanyal and Gul Panag. Both of them have openly supported Modi and now fighting on AAP ticket. How are they more reliable than any other candidate? Aren't they opportunists? Aren't they the same as Ram Kripal Yadav and Amar Singh? Why should they be considered better?

    Leadership deficiency is a big issue and governance is far more than rocket science. Who is supposed to lead them if they reach parliament? Here is how I see it, let's say everyone agrees with AAP point of view and they do win a good amount of seats. They support NDA or UPA (coz there is no way they win enough to make a govt!), have some demands which are simply unjust or ridiculous, take back their support after no one listens and we are back to chaos! Frankly, I dont want that. They are amateurs and everyone need to accept it.

    I wouldn't say AAP candidates can do better work, as I have never seen them actually "working". Governance is running a state/country, making policies, planning for the welfare of the people, not distributing freebies and attacking corporates! Mayank Gandhi has already announced they he will give free water and cut electricity bills, I mean, have a plan first, dudes! I dont think managers just go around announcing things!

    Having said that, I agree we do have a chance for change here. These people are not politicians and that might be a good thing, but there recent actions doesnt reflect that. I would urge you to check this :
    https://twitter.com/ConradLongmore/status/444183967512547328/photo/1/large

    Now, either it is Yogendra Yadav crying out on twitter that BJP is "going to" target him or Aashutosh justifying harming public property, they are all just acting pathetically.

    I want to see Modi as PM for 5 years, I want to see him working without any stupid opposition in parliament, I want him to prove that he is worthy of trust, I want him to live up to the hype, I want to give him the chance and may be, in 5 years, when AAP has earned half the credibility as Modi, Shivraj, Raman Singh, Parikar, then may be, I can think about giving them a chance!
     
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  8. Anand Tamariya

    Engineering Discipline:
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    @Pensu, you treating Modi like a God-send is not a good start!!! "Some leadership deficiency" doesn't translate to "Leadership deficiency is a big issue" - that's taken out of context. BTW your dear Modi failed to contain Gujarat riots - for me that's a bigger leadership deficiency. (Funny how people build hypotheses but ignore facts!!)

    Anyway, if AAP has 400 candidates, I won't recommend each one of them without doing proper research. If you take care of the pennies, pound will take care of itself. But looks like most people here don't agree with that. Many don't have any idea about de-centralized organization. Neither would they have heard about Apache-Mexico wars. But may be feudal mindset is so ingrained in us, we hardly ever consider any alternative.
     
    #48
  9. Kaustubh Katdare

    Administrator

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    Observation: Why do Modi haters non-supporters always have the 2002 riots episode as their backup? Bad events happen. USA couldn't control 9/11. But they made sure there were no such events afterwards.

    Similarly in Gujarat - there were no riots after 2002. Does that not prove Modi's administrative skills?

    AAP: They can't even run a government for 2 months and quit stating a stupid reason? You want a PM who quits because he can't get Jan Lokpal passed? Seriously?

    AAP lost a GOLDEN chance to prove their de-centralised or whatever government model and then they talk about taking over the country.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
    #49
  10. Pensu

    Pensu Star

    Engineering Discipline:
    Computer Science
    @Anand Tamariya : It's kind of funny you didn't counter any of the points except leadership! Sure, we will come to that. First, I never consider Modi a God/God-send, he is a mere mortal with his flaws unlike some with absolutely incorruptible personality! I am just saying give him a chance, let's see what he has got. He did good work in Gujrat and that's good enough to test him out on national platform. At least, better than whatever we have right now and their allies. (That's right, I said it, AAP is a congress ally!)

    Seriously, 2002? And I thought we were having a sensible debate! NDTV people do that, we don't! (I am sure you remember the Nidhi Razdan episode!). Anyways, as @Kaustubh Katdare pointed out there hasn't been a single riot in Gujrat since 2002, is a proof that he actually is a good administrator. He is running that state for 13 years, he didn't run, he took it as a challenge and changed things. That, right there, is "the" leadership quality!

    And I am seriously amazed how you are undermining the leadership issue. I mean what about the people who joined Mr. Kejriwal in Mumbai local trains? What about people who are sending money from all over the world, just because they know that an IITian turned activist is fighting for political change? You really think that doesn't have to do anything with leadership? Isn't Mr. kejriwal leading them? If not, then we have got a even bigger problem! Crowds go behind leaders, it's as simple as that. If everyone is free to do whatever they want to do, it would be chaos. People need leaders and they always will.

    So, the summary is AAP's leadership is flawed, their candidates are flawed (well, let's say a good part of them are!), they have no experience of governance, they got a chance and they blew it completely, they make baseless allegation and love to live in limelight. Man, you must hate your country to vote for someone like this!
     
    #50
  11. Anand Tamariya

    Engineering Discipline:
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    Another emotional rant - blah blah blah .@pensu did u read what you wrote?
     
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  12. Kaustubh Katdare

    Administrator

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    No mocking, please :) Let's have a healthy debate. Everyone is free to put their points forth in the way they want.
     
    #52
  13. Pensu

    Pensu Star

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    @Anand Tamariya : Looks like you are having some trouble reading the points. Let me simplify it here: first paragraph is a counter to the point that Modi is a God-send person, second is rebuttal for your 2002 barb, third one talks about leadership issues (which you don't think is "that" important!) and last one summarizes the points we have established till now. Hope that helps you to understand!

    P.S.: If you don't have any point to say in a debate, it's wiser to accept it and move on, rather than showing your frustration with words like "emotional rant"!
     
    #53
  14. Anand Tamariya

    Engineering Discipline:
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    Observation: AAP haters, Modi supporters love to jump to conclusion, lack logical reasoning and are pretty lazy to verify facts. How can you have a healthy or sensible debate if you are going to use double standards - one for Modi and one for Kejriwal? If Modi failed in administration, he's given a decade (or possibly eternity) to prove himself. In contrast, if Kejriwal steps down, he's marked a failure for lifetime.
    WHY?
    Anyway for people interested in Kejriwal's defense, here it is . (Funnily a part of this interview is quoted by @Pensu to prove Kejriwal dishonest. A lesson on why things should never be taken out of context.)
     
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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
  15. Kaustubh Katdare

    Administrator

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    It's not question of 'honesty' or 'dishonesty'. The aunty in my neighborhood would beat Kejriwal any day on the records of honesty; but she's not a good administrator just like Kejriwal.

    Kejriwal has a track record of taking U-turns! You cannot deny that! He's definitely not a person who'd gain my confidence to take the top job in India.

    1. He declares fast until death: cancels it. Seriously? You declare fast until death to cancel it? The government knew Kejriwal isn't a man who'd sacrifice his life; unlike Anna Hazare (who the government really feared!).

    2. Why did Kejriwal not revolt against the corrupt tax officers working under him during his tenure?

    3. Why did Kejriwal not listen to BJP and Congress to introduce the bill in the traditional way; when they PROMISED to support it? My Way or No Way?

    4. Why does Kejriwal blame the media of being biased when he himself is asking to play specific parts of his video repeatedly?

    PS: I wonder why don't we have more AAP supporters here?
     
    #55
  16. Pensu

    Pensu Star

    Engineering Discipline:
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    @Anand Tamariya: I dont understand how that interview changes the part I have shared! I dont care about the interview, I have listened to a lot of them, when I used to be an AAP supporter. The point is he is manipulating media like everyone else. Hell, even Narendra Modi cancelled an interview with facebook talks and newslaundry just because NDTV was involved. Everyone does that and the point of sharing that video was that Mr. Kejriwal also uses media to portray that he is above everybody else. He is no hero, he is just another politician, just a less mature one! I never said dishonest, I just said he is like everyone else, so may be, he should stop fooling people.

    Coming to double standards, nobody gave Modi any chance, he proved himself. He didn't run away, he stayed and changed things in his favor. Kejriwal could have done it, by staying in power in Delhi and work for welfare of people, it's actually as simple as that. His stepping down had nothing to do with any decision of people welfare, it was just a political stunt. I don't like to reiterate things, but I will explain this. Both BJP and Congress said that he should go through the procedure. They didn't oppose the bill, they just opposed the way it was being brought in. He could have been the smarter one and take the bill to the central govt first and then bring it to delhi assembly. But he didn't do that, instead he played martyr and resigned and that's why he is being marked as a failure! Plus I would like if you could counter @Kaustubh Katdare's points.

    And yeah, @Kaustubh Katdare: We don't have any more AAP supporter, because may be, everyone, like me, is feeling betrayed. We expected something else and it turned out to be completely bullshit!
     
    #56
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
  17. Nayan Goenka

    Engineering Discipline:
    IT
    For those who still think AAP has some sense left, see this video.




    Arvind Kejriwal is nothing but a Diwali 12-shot cracker. He is temporary happiness. Plus he's all about all words and no work. He is a puppet. And if he gets assassinated, I won't be shocked because he has brought this on himself. Such a hypocrite.

    As I have mentioned it earlier also, AAP has 0 work experience. They are perfect people to sit on News Channel Debate and talk. That's it. They are not the people to sit in Parliament or Assembly to talk. They don't even have any respect for basic laws, what they will govern the country.
     
    #57
  18. Anand Tamariya

    Engineering Discipline:
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    Let's try your strategy :) (taking things out of context):

    Modi is nothing but a Diwali 12-shot cracker. He is temporary happiness. Plus he's all about all words and no work. He is a puppet. And if he gets assassinated, I won't be shocked because he has brought this on himself. Such a hypocrite.
     
    #58
  19. Anand Tamariya

    Engineering Discipline:
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    He he, what an analogy!! I hope your aunt has atleast filed an RTI to earn her a comparison with Kejriwal who left his job to fight for it and bring it into existence!!!

    You used to be AAP supporter; now you support Modi. Where does that leave you and your track record? @Pensu, this is your explanation for Gul Panag. I'm surprised you call her opportunist but save yourself the same treatment!!! Another double standard!!

    However, to be fair, making ONE or a series of U-turns is not wrong as long as it allows you to reach you destination WITHOUT COMPROMISING YOUR PRINCIPLES. What is right is always right - number of times or context doesn't change it! BTW last time I used this analogy, Kaustabh deduced "life=Kejriwal"!! Pensu, hope you have a better comprehension!!

    What principle did Kejriwal stand for? Anti-corruption. Has he changed his stance on the same? No. Then what changed? (Hint: Look in the mirror.)

    A dead man is of no use to anyone. You may call it martyrdom - I call it foolishness. I want Kejriwal to be alive and healthy to be able to fight for his principles.

    What makes you say so? Remember, he fought for RTI!!

    Looks like you missed the news about the toothless Lokpal bill (only 15 out of 71 points suggested by Joint Draft committee were accepted)http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...t-cold-shoulders-AAP/articleshow/27589124.cms
    And this after two years of delay !! Seriously, guys like you have some patience. Thank God, Kejriwal lacks it!!

    Either you are too lazy to see the complete video or you've never played Jigsaw puzzle. Hint: The "expose video" is not taken in one shot; meaning, it's edited; meaning, it's taken out of context; meaning, it is not dependable; meaning, IF ANYTHING, Kejriwal is being manipulated by media rather than other way round. Now, go figure!!!

    I wonder too!! For too long, people have stayed on the sidelines bringing our country to the rut it is in today. I hope people atleast take a stand to end corruption. Modi or Rahul might be able to live another day to fight general elections. But for Kejriwal (and consequently for us), this is his only chance.

    Latest episode of "satyamev Jayate" further illustrated the problem due to corruption. Sample this:
    - The first guest on the show starts with - there is a tripping mafia in garbage handling!!
    - We have patented ingenious road building technology which can last for 10 years available for free to all municipalities in India. And yet we don't have one stretch which can last one monsoon.
    - We have another ingenious proven recycling technology to reduce the 10 acre land fill in Mumbai. Yet, it wasn't extended because it was not expensive.
    - Another entrepreneur said he'll take municipality garbage for free (they pay around Rs 500 per load to existing contractors). But municipalities are claiming they have no garbage!!

    We don't lack skills, resources or technology. It's just that our bucket has large holes( corruption)!! I want to see it fixed before diverting my attention to filling it up (read growth).
     
    #59
  20. Kaustubh Katdare

    Administrator

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    I really appreciate your response. I however think that we're moving on to the funnier side of the debate. Maybe I started it with the neighbourhood aunty analogy. :mrgreen:

    PS: I had declared to my wife that I'd be regular with my morning Yoga sessions starting Holi. I didn't. Am I turning into Kejriwal? :eek:
     
    #60

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