Indian Politics : The Aam Aadmi Party (AAP) Discussion

Discussion in 'The Café - General Discussions On Everything' started by Kaustubh Katdare, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. Kaustubh Katdare

    Kaustubh Katdare Administrator

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    Indian politics is witnessing a lot of interesting times since last ~3 years. The nation that many people believe will become a superpower in the next few years is now heading towards one of the most interesting and important polls of our times. These elections are going to be important in the international politics as well; because the world and world economy itself needs a better distribution of power.

    A new party has emerged out of the anti-corruption movement that Mr. Anna Hazare started, demanding the 'Lokpal Bill' - the bill that would help checking the rampant corruption that's affecting lives of all the people in India. The birth of Aam Aadmi Party itself has been very interesting. Formed by people who publicly said that they'll never form a political party formed a party and fought elections. They even surprised everyone in the Delhi Elections of 2013 by becoming the second biggest seat grabbers. Now they are rolling up their sleeves for the general elections of 2014 and want to contest for a major share of seats in the parliament.

    I've seen a LOT of young people getting attracted by the party and supporting the Aam Aadmi Party and I think it's important for us to try and make sense out of what's happening in Indian politics. This discussion is all about discussing the Aam Aadmi Party, their politics and the role they're going to play in coming elections.

    Note: Please be as descriptive as you can while expressing your thoughts. One word, one sentence or meaningless responses will be removed.

    PS: Respect each other beliefs and political inclinations. No personal bashing. Period.
  2. Nayan Goenka

    Nayan Goenka Ace

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    What justifies the "interesting" nature of AAP is that they are biting their own tongue. They are amateurs when it comes to governing. Plus their method of governing is sustainability oriented, not progress oriented. They have ways to make people's life better in "existing resources" but they don't have any "development and upgrade" plan. The "over-confidence and disrespectful" attitude it good for watching and debating or even discussing but it won't help anyone.

    From a prospective if you see, It makes a possible sense that," They are a political decoy. Came to power, saw that they couldn't manage now they are trying to go out by resigning on the name of JanLokpal Bill". Now isn't that so obvious that New Delhi is a Union Territory and it has limitations to make its own legislature. Specially one which was of norms that it would govern or put under radar the Union Government Agencies like CBI and IB. And they had this backup plan it seems. They knew they didn't have the power in constitution to make such law and they claimed to make it on a public ground. Is this how the country will be governed now? And it is their escape plan. If they don't manage to fix things, resign in the name of JanLokpal. What about the other promises they made? They are just a bunch of frustrated citizens who claim to come into politics and change it overnight. Such approach of change is not beneficial for taking the country forward but they are cutting down its wings to make a carpet to sit on.

    I m not suggesting that people should not get free stuff, but that is not the top priority problem. Top Priority is Security within and in the bounds of society, Security outside the society at a national and international level, Security at Economic and Technological grounds.

    No wonder if Kejriwal becomes PM, and he has to attend an International Summit for some serious XYZ issue like World Security and stuff he is going to repeat these lines there if he doesn't understand anything, "We are small people. We are a result of corruption by our government. This stuff doesn't fit in our brains so please don't count us."

    And one of the most important aspect,

    "AAP is a movement to eradicate corruption in the system. They do not have any plan as on what to do after they have made the system corruption free."
    And this is not the only issue we are facing.

    They do not have any plan on fixing up our Border security issues, Economic issues, Social-Economic balancing issues, GDP issues, Industrial and Investment issues, Technological advancement and development issues.

    They actually believe that Corruption is the only reason behind all these issues which proves how prejudiced and closed-minded they are.

    One huge question which arises it,
    "Let us consider they manage to eradicate corruption from the country by 100%, what after that?"

    And yes, This ideology that I am Honest and the whole world including businessman, industrialist, Politicians, Social Workers, Media, Bureaucracy, The whole world who doesn't support AAP is Corrupt, is too arrogant and fruitless. And if anyone answers, maybe other businessmen are corrupt not me, he has the next sentence ready, so come join us. AAP is taking us to Anarchy and Autocratic ideology rule.
    And this is actually the biggest problem we have. One party who is trying to become the biggest influential party in India has a "CORRUPT" ideology.
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  3. SarathKumar Chandrasekaran

    SarathKumar Chandrasekaran Star

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    Yesterday after a stunning defeat at assembly where kejriwal's most awaited jan lokpal bill experienced rejection (only 27 voted in favour and 42 voted against it. Arawind Kejriwal throwed away his CM post and mailed his resignation to President and requested him about assembly dissolution and for fresh elections.Is it right CEans to throw peoples trust?
    Is this a publicity stunt or a real decision for welfare of people?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. hinesh

    hinesh Enthusiast

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    I will vote "NO" for your question...
    But politics in India is always played for self benefits at first not for the peoples who have elected politicians for same work..

    Anyone disagree,, ??
  5. SarathKumar Chandrasekaran

    SarathKumar Chandrasekaran Star

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    Yes.We also want to know that conducting a relection would cost more and its all "People's Money".Throwing away the CM post cant win the bill, Kejriwal want to think in other ways to pass the bill.
  6. hinesh

    hinesh Enthusiast

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    Yes,
    May be he is right in his view..
    But in politics., you have to keep all happy to do what is right.

    As they say, In politics, we have to sometime forgo our ideal thoughts to do what is right for the entire population...
  7. Kaustubh Katdare

    Kaustubh Katdare Administrator

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    I've merged the threads into a single discussion thread for AAP.

    Kejriwal is preparing grounds for the Loksabha Polls. Sacrificing the CM seat for the post of PM. Let me explain Kejriwal's game plan.

    Both BJP and Congress said that they'll support the bill and get pass 'IF' Kejriwal got the centre's permission to 'introduce it in the Delhi assembly'. If Kejriwal was actually committed to introducing the bill and getting it passed; he should have agreed to it!

    But that'd mean BJP an Congress would get to be the real heroes and it'd strengthen BJP's stand as a party against corruption. Kejriwal, being the B-plan of Congress, did not want that.

    So what does Kejriwal do?

    He resigns and swinging all the mud on BJP and Congress. It helps Kejriwal (Congress) in multiple ways-
    1. He no longer have to prove his administration skills in Delhi. He's failed on almost every front as CM of Delhi. He will no longer have to deal with his failures.
    2. He will now make noise as if BJP and Congress opposed the 'bill' itself. Which is totally WRONG. But people won't understand it. They'll see Kejriwal as a hero who sacrificed his CM position for Jan Lokpal.
    3. Kejriwal gets all the free time in the world to seek votes to become a PM.
    Had Kejriwal gone to take Center's permission, and the centre had denied it; all the bad will would have gone to Congress (because they are ruling the centre).

    Clearly shows Kejriwal is a b-plan of Congress which they created to stop Modi from becoming the Prime Minister.

    (PS: I sincerely hope that the young engineers realise this dirty politics being played by Congress).

    PS 1: I don't support BJP; but will vote for them because I want to see NaMo as PM of India.
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  8. Anand Tamariya

    Anand Tamariya Ace

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    Aren't people scrutinizing AAP unnecessarily? How come nobody asked following question to Congress or BJP?

    And why people see re-election as wastage of money but lot more being USED in corruption? Won't it be better if re-election happened and AAP got a clear majority so that it's easier for them to pass bills that matter? And why are people questioning Kejriwal's capability to lead when they are content with Sonia's, Rahul's and Akhilesh's ruling?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. hinesh

    hinesh Enthusiast

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    @Kaustubh Katdare : yes, big-k , congress is playing dirty politics. and for that matter no one is clean here. not AAP too.
    So instead of voting again to congress or AAP , Its good to have Vote NaMo for PM..

    @Anand Tamariya : no one is asking BJP or Congress same question coz its waste of asking them...

    and If re-election happens, Instead of thinking for wastage of money, there are chances that AAP won't get majority (As their recent works of Image destruction) , Than again same scenario will happen. In that case AAP will only prove congress true that as AAP neither have experience of administration nor they are capable.

    As big-k said., Dirty games are played by congress,Voting NaMo for PM will good (As per present scenario) decision ..
  10. Anoop Kumar

    Anoop Kumar Knight

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    Is passing Lokpal Bill is only responsibility of a government?
    Almost every dispute to other party, they just wanted to make a drama to gain attention of media and public.
    bringing Delhi Police under delhi command - Tell me a reason to go to Dharna? Is all work completed by ministers?
    Another example is logging FIR against Mukesh Ambani, case is already pending then why to log complain?

    A genuine question asked by a Tv anchor - If you took referendum while forming govt. then why didn't you take while resigning?

    Why I, do support BJP?
    1. I have no other option.
    2. 3 states*3 times (Gujarat, Chhattisgarh, MP)

    Why not congress: Do you want to support a party whose senior most members don't have even self respect?

    Why not AAP -Kejriwal - The whole AAP is still only centralized to kejriwal,
    People already told him run govt. do some good work but when saw a good opportunity to gain political advantage in General elections he just diluted the govt. and ran away.
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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
  11. hinesh

    hinesh Enthusiast

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    @Anoop Kumar : agree with your opinion.
    As well as points for give vote to BJP and not to Congress nor AAP.
  12. Kaustubh Katdare

    Kaustubh Katdare Administrator

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    AAP, being the true challengers should have first demonstrated their caliber by performing in Delhi. You can't quit whr both the opposing parties were ready to vote in favor of the bill.

    Kejriwal should have opted for re-elections when no party got cleat majority. I wonder what pressure was AAP under that they actually joined hands with the Congress to form a government? No one can deny that Kejriwal has taken a series of U-turns in the last few weeks. Hes now declared that he won't fight loksabha election... which basically means he will.

    People should read Praja Rajyam story. The trick Congress is playing through AAP as proxy isnt new.
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  13. Anand Tamariya

    Anand Tamariya Ace

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    Irrespective of which political party you support, please be consistent with your value judgement.
    Would you argue against building a solid foundation for a skyscraper? Knowing that your bucket has holes, would you rather fix the leaks or focus on other aspects of filling it up?

    Isn't it just a hypotheses? I can argue otherwise without proving anything. Remember nobody expected AAP to win even half the seats that they did.

    You are ready to read into Kejriwal's mind but won't consider the facts - 27 members were in favour of the Bill while 42 were against it. You won't consider what he's saying - that he's there for Jan Lokpal bill. And he understands what moral responsibility means and he's fighting for his ideals.

    If you are in a new town looking for an address, do you stop at the first dead end? Do you wait for somebody to remove the dead-end? Or, do you take as many U-turns as required to reach your destination?

    Do you evaluate life by its journey or the end (death)? Even if it ends in a predictable way, I'd be happy if he brings in one positive change!! Kejriwal is better than scores of arm-chair critics who can only crib or criticise!
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  14. Anoop Kumar

    Anoop Kumar Knight

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    In other discussion I have already made a point that,
    Instead of blindly supporting AAP we should wait for them to prove something, that they have capability to run govt. without corruption and with development.

    What if Mr. Kerjiwal is another Mulayam Singh yadav / Lalu yadav , both have emerged from a anti-curruption movement and they both majority and formed govt. in their first poll, rest everyone knows the story of these two.

    Kejriwal got chance to prove this trend false but instead of facing challenges, just quit.

    Why should I not ask this question to AAP, other than some national issue, and you will also agree that AAP has no clue to think about nation issues (Ex. Senior AAP leader on Kashmir)?
    Another burning question is sefety of all public (not only women) in Delhi, what was the stand of on this ? (Dharna at central minister house!!)


    Friend, Exactly my point this is, I will fix it rather than quitting in hope that management will believe me and give me my choice of team to work on next time. Why people will believe you, they have already listen your point earlier and put you in team to work with.
    And, JanLokpal bill is not only pillar , it is sure a important one but there are several stilts to make a solid foundation.
  15. Kaustubh Katdare

    Kaustubh Katdare Administrator

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    27 members in favour of introducing the bill in the parliament 'the Kejriwal way', and 42 were against it. BJP and Congress had already said that if Kejriwal brings the bill to the table in a constitutional way (debatable point); they will pass it.

    The vote you mentioned was about getting the centre's nod to the introduction of the bill - and the bill itself.

    Seriously? I didn't expect this from you, Anand. Just two weeks ago; he said that he won't contest Loksabha Polls. Now, as I type this he's being interviewed by Barkha Dutt and Kejirwal is saying "I've not decided whether I'll contest or not".

    You can't even decide whether you will contest or not - and you want the charge to run this country?

    Why should live be evaluated in first place? What should be the benchmark to evaluate it against?

    ...do we want a proven & time-tested candidate or a fresher to take up the job of CEO of this country? And seriously, what did Kejriwal do in 49 days of his government- 'dharma' + 'blaming' + free water + 50% discount to who participated in his Dharna (this ain't funny). Even Mr. Sushil Kumar Shinde had declared free electricity to all the farmers in Maharashtra.
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  16. Anand Tamariya

    Anand Tamariya Ace

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    What's the point of re-emphasising a debatable point? What does it prove? It's a known fact that Lokpal bill hasn't been passed in over a year with all the public promises to Anna Hazare.

    Really? You don't want to evaluate life. You don't have a benchmark. Yet you want to evaluate Kejriwal. Isn't that hypocrisy?

    Kejriwal has raised people's hope, given them a chance to participate in politics which was shunned so far by majority considering it to be dirty. Look at the number of registration in the party in just one month.

    And who is your proven & time-tested candidate? Seriously, that smacks of typical Indian double standards - they keep on praising old, want things to be done the proven way and then ponder why we don't generate new ideas, products and processes. Most of the revolutionary things that you see around are brought in by freshers in their respective domains.

    Well, you haven't begun. You don't even want to begin because you keep thinking about all the stilts at once (analysis paralysis). Kejriwal has atleast started - one step at a time - I wish him all the luck.
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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
  17. Kaustubh Katdare

    Kaustubh Katdare Administrator

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    Re-emphasising because it's an important point; and people should understand what exactly is happening. The BJP has supported the bill in the centre too; it was Congress's responsibility to introduce it in the parliament. For Delhi, it was Kejriwal's responsibility to introduce it in the parliament.

    If Kejriwal 'really' wanted to get the bill passed for Delhi, he should have agreed to what the opposition (BJP) was asking for (that is get the centre's permission to introduce the bill for Delhi). If he'd gone that way and BJP had actually helped pass the bill - it'd have taken all the air out of Kejriwal's balloon; and the BJP would have been seen as a 'good' party; which Kejriwal did not want at any cost.


    Is Kejriwal = Life?

    I will evaluate Kejriwal on every damn front out their because he and his party are aiming for the top job. If he's planning to run this country - I've full right to evaluate him, judge him and form an opinion. Where exactly do you think I'm being a hypocrite?

    For the record's sake; I used to be a Kejriwal supporter. I was out there on the streets when Anna Hazare was fasting.

    Kejriwal's U-turns aren't regular U-turns. When you declare 'fast until death' (which Kejriwal did), I went on to support him because there was this man betting his life for us. Had I (and all the people) known that Kejriwal would call it off 'just-like-that, to form a political party'; no sane person would have supported him.

    ...and that's why Congress didn't take him seriously either (he's their b-plan, anyways). Ask Kejriwal to declare 'fast-until-death' again and see how many people turn up.

    People got on the streets because Anna Hazare has NEVER failed people's faith. When he meant 'fast-until-death' - he actually meant it; and that's why it led to several MLAs and MPs resign in Maharashtra.

    Na.Mo!

    He's my candidate.
    He's delivered in Gujarat; and I trust what people of Gujarat have said.
    He provides 24x7x365 power all over Gujarat- enough for me to judge his capabilities of governance.
    He's my reason to vote for the BJP.
    I firmly believe that a nationalist at the top can make the change than a bunch of fools who claim to be 'honest'. And no sane India-loving person should vote for AAP unless you want Kashmir to be given to Pakistan. What are those guys smoking anyways?

    I'm all game for new ideas; but I'm not blind to totally not see how Congress is playing games. You can't expect them to give up what they've been ruling for the past 60+ years. The 'AAP' plan started way back in 2009 because Congress new 2014 is going to be extremely hard (or impossible to win). So what do they do? They first create an pseudo-enemy (AAP); so that people will go with the enemy. The enemy keeps telling people that they are against the established giants (Congress). So all the anti-congress votes go to AAP. AAP then joins hands with Congress OR Congress simply rules through a proxy called AAP. BJP is kept out of power. Problem solved.

    People will love 'David Vs. Goliath' stories. 'Small, middle class, coughing' man taking on big guns makes a perfect success story. Congress knows this. I hope the people will open their eyes before it's too late.[/quote][/quote]
  18. Anand Tamariya

    Anand Tamariya Ace

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    I can understand your frustration. Being let down by one's ideal can be very disturbing. But I'm afraid you are going to be in the same state soon unless you stop mind-reading and projecting your ideas and views on the one you are idolising. Before I make any further argument, let me re-state what I said earlier:
    Read the above again. If you don't understand it, you may ignore the rest.

    Is it that difficult to see the diversonary tactics being applied by the seasoned parties and their politicians? If you think party functions as a single entity (the reason you're voting for Na.Mo), what was BJP, the 'good' party, doing for last one year to raise it at center?


    I suggest you read the complete thread again. Kejriwal is not equal to life. You can derive this only by a very flawed logic. The conclusion I wanted you to draw was to apply a consistent yardstick in your evaluations.

    You are flawed on two counts here -
    - By your own admission, you have a right to comment on his actions when he's contesting for MP post which affects you. However, right now you're targeting his actions in Delhi which is way beyond it affecting you directly.
    - Your hypocrisy is - you are NOT ASKING this question to your other favorites. I don't see a forum post asking this question (or any other for that matter) to guys who ARE CONTESTING for so-called top post. Do ask such questions to them as well (and keep your fingers crossed that your site is not shut down!!)

    That's emotional rant and I sympathize with you. However, if you are going to debate, I'd rather you give factual and logical arguments - otherwise it's just your personal biased opinion. And if you love opinions, your opinion notwithstanding, here's what Delhi thinks about re-electing Kejriwal http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-sh...l-again-not-congress-or-bjp-poll/20140215.htm

    You are following all U-TURNS of Kejriwal but you won't give him credit when he was explicit in mentioning he doesn't share Prashant Bhushan's view on Kashmir. Again this is double standard - apply a logic as and when one suits you.

    Lastly, we have given PASSIVE SUPPORT to DUBIUS CRIMINAL POLITICIANS for long. It's about time we STOP ACTIVELY OPPOSING a SINCERE, HONEST and NON-CRIMINAL person - if we can't support him!!
  19. Kaustubh Katdare

    Kaustubh Katdare Administrator

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    I don't know which part of my post made you think I'm frustrated. Well, I'm frustrated with the gross blindness of the AAP supporters. Anyway, that's my own problem though. I did read your post - word by word before replying to it.

    First line of the quote: That's the question that needs to be answered by the AAP supporters. Don't you see the diversionary politics being played by 'the Congress'?

    By the way; BJP is in opposition in the parliament. They can only vote for or against the bill introduced by the UPA.

    Read. I'm only extending on what you said. Not drawing any conclusion.

    Delhi does affect me, sire! I'd have commented/judged/questions any political party that is aspiring to fight the national elections; no matter which state they're playing from. Delhi affects me indirectly - and it matters.

    ...and why do you think I'm not asking? Who are the contenders?
    Rahul Gandhi: Arnab Goswami did a fantastic job in News Hour. I don't think we should trouble Mr. Gandhi more. He'll retire and go back to Italy (hopefully). Or simply continue ruling through AAP.

    Na.Mo: He's been asked, questioned, grilled 100x times; and the man has delivered. Why would I waste my time questioning the man who's proved himself multiple times?

    I do *not* say Na.Mo is 100% perfect. I don't say Gujarat is 100% developed. But you've got to agree that the state has progressed under his leadership.

    Kejriwal: This thread.

    Third Front: All ambiguous.

    Who's left?

    Rediff Survey, man?

    Anyways - I just hope people open their eyes. God save this country. Pen is mightier than sword; I hope :)

    Yep. You're asking me to trust a man of U-turns. I did trust Kejriwal. He failed me once, twice, thrice.
    • He's 'explicitly' said he won't contest elections.
    • He 'explicitly' said he won't take support from Congress / BJP
    • He explicitly said he'll end VIP culture; and then asked for the twin Bunglow (did you see the Times Now expose?)
    • Search for 'Kejriwal U-Turns' on Google for more.
    ...yep. Agreed. We, the people of India, voted for Congress for so long.

    ...and the criminals that look like criminals aren't the dangerous ones. The real danger comes from the people who don't look like Criminals. Ravan disguised himself as a 'Saint' to Kidnap Sita. We tend to forget history.

    PS: I hope we get more views into this debate.
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  20. Pensu

    Pensu Star

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    Okay, let me add my two cents! The problem I have with AAP is their immaturity in running a government and then running away from it. You can say that he did a lot for the people in Delhi, but I guess we need to understand that it's a whole different thing to give subsidy and reducing the prices. I would like to shed some light on that infamous dharna and resignation.

    I used to be a supporter of Kajriwal, but then things happened. First of all, that Dharna didn't make any sense. Everybody, every single person who has been following this movement knows that Delhi police isn't under Delhi govt. Now, when you are a CM you are supposed to build pressure on central govt to get things done and not sit on dharna and disturb the whole administration. Again, let's say that central govt doesn't listen or this is the way keriwal does politics, I can level with you till here. But asking policemen to quit job and join the Dharna and then ending it without getting anything solid in return was a deal breaker for me. This is just ridiculous. You cant say he at least tried, he is a CM now, not an activist.

    Now let's come to resignation. When he decided to form the govt, he sent a list of 18 points to congress. Congress said for 16 points you dont need us and other 2 are out of your jurisdiction anyway. (I dont think I need to put a reference here!). Janlokpal was one of the two points. So, basically it was clear that congress will never support Janlokpal. Then why the hell did you make govt in the first place when it was clear that you wont be able to pass the bill? What is more hilarious is that no one was opposing the bill, they were just opposing the way it was being brought in! What was AAP's issue with consulting central govt, they could have done that and then present the bill in Delhi assembly. But then they wouldn't have got the chance to play martyr! If you took a referendum before forming the govt, why don't ask people before you quit? Don't they have any say now? Or will you just do whatever you want, whenever you want? I am not supporter of the theory that kejriwal is b-team of congress, but he is just trying too hard to prove that he is!

    I would like to come back to subsidies. Giving away freebies is nothing new, everybody does that, but they also manage the budget. India is a populist country and we can't afford communism. Dont jump just now! He is pro poor and anti-corporates. That's text book communism. I am not saying if it's good or bad, we just gotta decide what we are. Then there is the FIR issue, the highly predictable U-turns, almost daily press conferences and (exclusive!) TV-interviews and the legendary tales of Somnath Bharti!

    The problem is AAP-fans think that their party is better than the other parties, but the truth is AAP hasn't got the chance to show their cards. And whatever they have shown, it's not pleasant. How are we supposed to give votes to a party who couldn't hold their fort in Delhi for 50 days, despite being given "unconditional support". If they wanted, they could have changed a lot, but instead they showed that they are too immature and don't believe in diplomacy. They had 2014 in their mind all along, it's not wrong but their actions don't match their words.

    AAP got a good opportunity to make some changes (real ones!), but I am sorry to see that they blew it up.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014

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